I think you meant, It is sad, instead of "It said," and I will try to explain about the complaints. (you have numerous other spelling and typos which makes it hard to read).

What people are saying is that MOST of the current robberies in Fayette County now are done by minorities from Fulton and Clayton Counties. Yes, now they come in vehicles but if buses came here from those two counties, many would ride them either to "stake out" a robbery or to grab cash and hop on one and go. Cash is easy to hide.

Did not Mr. Nichols escape once on a Marta vehicle?

And, yes certainly people in the majority do steal also, usually not with guns and knives and steel knuckles however. They use paper-shuffling or stealth.

Shooting damages two Fayetteville homes

As you will read, no one was hurt. No one was even outside to be targeted (that we know of anyway). But still a little unsettling.

Make mass transit convenient and it will work. We're so airport-centric jobs wise around here that an airport shuttle will do well in 10 years if not sooner.

I've had the chance to visit some big cities in the past few years all with superior transit systems compared to ATL. When the Olympics came, them guvment boys had millions they could've spent to improve transit. Instead they built more roads, a new ballpark, etc.

That was when the ball was dropped, perhaps forever in terms of disconnecting ATL from a decent transit service that could be convenient to nearly all who want to use it.

Sherwood Shuttle does that already? Doesn't it?

Just not used much.

Or am I wrong?
-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Having a local service has always been an option.

As long as it meets certain conditions, GRTA’s conditions, it should still qualify as part of the “Clean Air Campaign”.

One of the problems with a “local” effort is that it will have to be locally operated, maintained and publicized. GRTA normally handles that sort of thing.

I think part of the misconception about GRTA is that everyone thinks that GRTA and MARTA are the same thing. They are most definitely “NOT”.

In addition to that, it may or may not qualify for federal funding. GRTA qualifies for federal funding to the tune of about 10.5 million.

The links below will clearly show the difference between the two services.

MARTA and GRTA

How's it going? You say that MARTA and GRTA are not the same. Besides the spelling I honestly cannot tell the difference between C-Tran in Clayton County and MARTA. Same street thugs (Cynthia McKinney types - Whitey Haters), same trashed out bus stops, same beaten down cow paths. I have closely watched what GRTA has done in Clayton County and continue to do so to this day. It ain't perty ole buddy. I know you say "Our GRTA" won't be like that but again I say look at our neighbors to the East. The introduction of GRTA has contributed heavily to Clayton's run down ghetto image.

I have to differ with you on this. No GRTA. Also from what I understand folks in Marietta aren't too happy with the results of their Cobb Count Transit Whatchamadohickey. Sorry...couldn't remember the offical title.

To clarify my Cynthia McKinney statement before I get dubbed a racist which I already have in the past.........I'm not talking about middle class African-American working families. So don't go there. Cuz they don't ride the bus.

The difference between MARTA and GRTA is that the GRTA buses only stop at “Park & Ride’s” where MARTA busses stop at “Road Side” pick up and drop off locations.

The “Park & Ride” location was designed and is operated as just that. A well lit, area where local residents can Park their cars and Ride the bus into downtown.

Coweta County made it clear years ago that they wanted no part of MARTA. That GRTA buses only go to a “Park & Ride” location is the desired option.

So unless the “gangsta” has a car waiting for him/her in the “Park & Ride” lot, their in for a long walk.

A good read on the subject of “Crime and Mass Transit” can be found in the two links below.

For a growing Atlanta 'race has always mattered'

It came as no surprise to me to read, "Race was the overriding factor as to why those counties turned it down," under to section of, “Traffic, race and public transit”.

Think locally, act regionally

Granted both articles are somewhat long, but I think they offer a better understanding as to why “some” people fear Mass Transit.

Yeah Bad. I am a bit ignorant on GRTA. I will try to make time to check your links out to broaden my knowledge on the situation. And yes fear does come into play for me in a huge way. I fear the thugs and I fear the negative effects a Marta type system would bring.

I have no problem with a Park & Ride type system. Especially if it will work and MANY would use it. But you keep stating that GRTA is only a Park & Ride type system. I beg to differ. Again I refer you back to Clayton County an their GRTA C-TRAN system. There is NO difference between MARTA and this GRTA bus route.

I don't trust GRTA and I don't trust our politicians. Look how they've sold out on the TDK Highway 54 Traffic Relief Project.

What in the world is wrong with our bus stopping at sub-division entrances every hour, letting off and on, and then also stopping at mass transit at one spot in PTC? Maybe two. I certainly would go to work and to Atlanta that way if available.

Bad PTC - what might surprise a lot of folks is that there have been commuter vans going from here to Atlanta for years decades -- I used to ride one, and it still parks over by Partners Pizza. I've seen a couple more recently down at Braelinn Center -- wonder if they were organized by the riders through GRTA (gasp).

I don't think one can just walk up to the van and demand transportation--that is assuming one can get to the van in the first place. Think, a little. We need a bus service here in PTC that makes the rounds every hour and drops us off at the train station to catch a train to Atlanta and stops in between--if we had a train and a bus.

I have been working in downtown Atlanta for five years. The first year I drove my own car. Seventy miles a day – wear and tear on my vehicle and me. By the time I finally got home at night I felt like beating up my grandmother (and she lives 1000 miles away).

I found out about a privately owned commuter bus. It’s like a small church bus; seats about 28 people. I have been using it for four years now. My goodness!!! What a difference! I can read, sleep or just stare out the window. I have met some interesting people and enjoy conversing with them.

No more frequent fill ups, parking costs, excessive mileage on my car, and now I call my grandmother when I get home and tell her I love her.

My company reimburses me the entire cost. It not only costs me NADA to commute, but I bring literally thousands that it WOULD have cost me back to PTC, which is funneled back into my community.

The only draw back? The bus only makes one round trip a day. I would welcome the flexibility that GRTA would bring.

PS Hey NUK – deep this that fugly picture. It destroys and veracity you may have.

I too have seen the vans.

I’ve called several of them and inquired about the routes. Guess what, 1-800-VAN-RIDE says that there are no vans in the PTC/Tyrone area.

There’s a GRTA van that comes to PTC over near Willow Bend road, yet GRAT has no knowledge of it.

I’ve personally spoken to the owner of the Sherwood Shuttle service, nice guy, and in order to have that service create a route, I would have to organize it and guarantee it my self. The problem being, I already have a job and have no interest in providing a service to someone that I only want to use.

As in interconnecting with adjoining systems in the GRTA network.

So, not MARTA, but most assuredly connected into MARTA.

One BIG Mass transit system composed of individual entities.

The net effect is someone from DeKalb can come here as easily as someone from here can go to DeKalb.

Don't spin it to have folks thinking they will not be impacted by MARTA.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

"The new road will likely provide a convenient way for persons in the proposed “McIntosh” development to reach Ga. Highway 74 to commute into Atlanta."
Full article

And the hits just keep on coming.

According to “some” there is NO commuter problem on Hwy. 74.

I don’t guess this little development wont effect their commute because they live and work in the bubble.

Can you spell GRTA yet?

Probably a good idea because we will all need them soon. Also a gun shop with a firing range would be nice, so we don't have to keep goig outside the city to practice.

See Autrey's Armory on 314 in Fayetteville.

Haven't been there but heard good reviews.

How is this done legally? Is a permit required?

Put the gun(s) and ammunition in the trunk.

Ask a cop, but I'm pretty sure as long as the weapon is not loaded and in plain sight, in a case, you should be fine with having it in your car.

Just stay from anything that even looks like a school or church.

A loaded firearm in your glove box without a permit. With a permit you can carry it anywhere in the vehicle. I'll try to get you the Georgia law on this. Get a carry permit and most of the surrounding states reciprocate and honor your carrying rights.

Be careful about asking a cop about your carry rights in a vehicle. Depending on their politcal agenda you will get a different interpretation. Make a copy of the Georgia Law and keep it with the firearm so you can argue your defense if you get stopped. There are so many laws that many of the lazy cops aren't going to know the true intent of what the ordnance reads.

I go there all of the time. I was talking about PTC since I live here.
Maybe they could open another store here. Looks like there will be a need for it soon.

I have to agree with you Sweet Honesty about how the C-Tran bus system has affected Clayton County. All it did was make Clayton, Fulton, and Dekalb a seamless transient society. Until the bus came to Clayton middle class African-American families were moving in like crazy and the quality of Clayton County was still intact.

Now that the jobless ghetto thugs have their seamless integration via the Marta / C-Tran bus system Clayton County has become a crime infested poop hole (can I say that?)that is driving businesses and middle class families out. Not to mention the spilling over into Fayette County of the thugs that are preying on us now.

Copy of an Email that GRTA sends out to it's members.

customerservice@xpressga.com
08/24/2006 03:54 PM

Dear Xpress Customers:

AUBURN AVENUE CLOSED FRIDAY

Xpress will NOT pick up at Park Place at Woodruff Park on Friday, August 25, after 4 p.m. because of the closure of Auburn Ave. Customers are asked to please board Xpress at either the Peachtree Center stop near the MARTA elevator or at Pryor and Upper Alabama streets.

FUTURE ROUTES

The www.XpressGa.com website now includes a tab for future routes and Park & Ride lots. You will find it under the 'Contact Xpress' tab. This tab will provide status information on the construction of new park & ride lots for new Xpress routes (or permanent lots for current routes). Updates and projected opening dates for new routes will be posted as soon as they become available.

MORE BUS TRANSPORTATION OPINION

Get educated, read the below article.

Customers may want to read Mike King's column in today's Atlanta Journal-Constitution for yet another view of implementing bus transportation in metro Atlanta.

You can find his column on page A17 or follow this link:

To get past transit roadblocks, roll with express buses

(The link expires within a week.)

Yours for a stress-free commute,

Robert Alexander
Manager for Customer Development
GRTA

5 buses up at a 57 passengers (for the biggest bus) is a stunning 275 passengers! What a major relief of thousands of commuters every morning!

This is the big traffic releiver you see? HA!

Like any prudent business person. You start small and work up.

Gosh, suppose the system needed to be modified. Wouldn’t you think it would be easer to change a few rather than a lot of something?

We do these things at work called “pilot projects” to see if something will really work or not.

And limited hours. A LOT of people are hitting the road all the way up to 9:00AM.

Then you “add”, as to increase the number of, busses and times.

When you go to Wal-Mart and buy a tree, do you buy a full grown tree? No, you buy a small one and then nurture it so that it grows.

Did you go out and buy all the equipment you’ll ever need the first day you opened up for business? No, you didn’t. You gradually added equipment as you had a demand for it.

All the hassles or creating parking lots and more for 275 people out of thousands?

Again, you have to start somewhere. Newnan will be adding additional bus service and will most likely have more than one “Park & Ride” parking area.

How many acres of “UNUSED, VACANT” space do you think is on Dividend Drive?

Maybe some of the people sitting on all that valuable

EMPTY space would consider renting it out for a while. Where’s your entrepreneurial sprit?

And it’s a hassle to create a flat piece of land and put down crush & run. Because that’s really hard to do.

I suppose you would want valet parking and a Starbucks?

You just made it very clear how this is not going to work for Fayette County.

I’m sure, at one point, there was someone in Newnan with your “vision” as well. To bad they were wrong too.

That is for ONE city. Fayette routes would have to cover Peachtree City, Fayetteville and Tyrone.

Why so many routes? Are there that many people that commute to and from Atlanta every day? I had no idea.

Can you say, live in the bus

Can you say live in the present?

Like any prudent business person. You start small and work up.

Read for yourself. Then tell me there is any indication of growth rate toward anything you are envisioning?

22 months from this article and still only 5 routes. Not showing the kind of growth needed for your vision to have any significance.

And limited hours. A LOT of people are hitting the road all the way up to 9:00AM.

Then you “add”, as to increase the number of, busses and times.

Using your glowing example of Newnan, ain't happening.

All the hassles or creating parking lots and more for 275 people out of thousands?

Again, you have to start somewhere. Newnan will be adding additional bus service and will most likely have more than one “Park & Ride” parking area.

22 months from last change and still waiting, in Newnan.

That was your example of 'success.'

I’m sure, at one point, there was someone in Newnan with your “vision” as well. To bad they were wrong too.

They were right. After all this time on 5 buses on limited route times. That is not success.

That is for ONE city. Fayette routes would have to cover Peachtree City, Fayetteville and Tyrone.

Why so many routes? Are there that many people that commute to and from Atlanta every day? I had no idea.

You should have researched before you started holding Newnan up as an example. Read for yourself.

In 2000 there were 27,572 who worked outside Fayette County. Your 275 is 1%. One lousy percent.

To do just 10% would require 100 fully loaded buses. 20 times your 5 buses.

Just to pull 10% off scattered over multiple hours.

Are you even beginning to get a picture or what you are wanting put onto Fayette County?

How many buses are you looking at here?

Grand Central station for ever thing we don't want coming down here all day long.

Can you say live in the present?

Can you say overrun with mass transit and crimes?

They love elderly and high income areas. And you want to make it easy to get here.

As for your parking lot. How big to be meaningful?

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Fayette County and PTC have already changed. I have already had to purchase a gun to feel safe in my home. It has already changed because of the kind of people who are here and the choices they have made. I don't like it but there it is. You can't fight city hall. Especially when city hall is in bed with developers.
Sorry for the "crazy" comment. It just seems like you are worrying about the wrong thing. The biggest problem seems to be thug kids and parents who can't afford to raise them, because they are so busy keeping up with the "Jones".
If we are going to have these developements forced on us anyway hopefully we can find a way to attract polished professional people who are fiscally responsible. The kind of people who will give back to our community instead of suck it dry. People who let their thugs kids run loose and commit crime are sucking this community dry. If it weren't for the parasite parents and kids here we wouldn't need the extra police officers that we have to hire this year.
Adding some form of mass transit would maybe help attract the people that work downtown or buckhead. Maybe they would consider a living further out if it was easier for them to get to work.

I am not disagreeing with much of what you said.

But I am totally opposed to Mass Transit, having lived where it was and seen what happened.

You will never get me to support it.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

The caliber of people getting on the bus and off the bus, are obviously professional men and women. I have yet to see a street person, with all their belongings in a Kroger grocery cart, waiting to board. I also haven’t seen a “gansta” type with baggy pants, a stupid looking hat, and bling around their neck getting off.

If they did come to PTC to break into homes, they’d have a difficult time fitting a plasma TV into their briefcase.

Blind.

What makes you think a crook is going to dress so obviously?

There IS a crime increase around the bus area.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Besides the crime issues

What crime issues? Did you not spent the summer here with the rest of us?

Do you think the guy robbing stores around here is taking the bus?

1. How many routes from Atlanta to here, how many times a day, do you expect will be made? There HAS to be enough riders to justify the bus.

Oh I don’t know, how about we start with the same route structure as Newnan. The Five busses they have are full both ways.

They are planning to add more as needed.

It's a shame when they make money off this stuff.

2. Are there going to be multiples at peak hours at the same time?

Newnan has one leaving every ½ hour from 5:30 until 7:30 AM.
To see the schedule: Click here

3. To get to work and get home, if it requires one to catch the bus a half hour earlier than they normally leave, and wait 45 minutes to get home, how many will do that?

You don’t have to leave a half hour early to catch the bus, nor do you have to wait 45 minuets to get home.

Lets see, Newnan busses are FULL both ways.

4. You have to stay at work 15 minutes late. Next bus after your normal is an hour later and you cannot catch yours.

Wrong again oh great one. They have a program called “The Guaranteed Ride Home”.

If you have to leave early, for whatever reason, you can catch a cab and the GRTA program will reimburse you for the cab fair. Same if you un-expectantly have to stay late.

5. There is no return bus for your time frames?

See answer above.

There simply isn't the ridership to justify all the different schedules people have.

That’s why bus and subway service doesn’t work in any city, right?

I hear complaining about 7:00 AM. Well, got news for you, the commuting times for everyone does not coincide with yours.

I actually changed my arrival time at the office from 7:00 AM to 6:00 so now I get off at 3:30 and miss a lot of the traffic.

Granted getting up at 4:00 AM and leaving my house at 5:10 is a bit of a drag.

If I can get GRTA, I'll change it back.

Bottom line being they are not going to bring excessive numbers of buses here, to start with to accomodate you.

First off “accomodate “ is spelled accommodate.

Secondly you’ve been WRONG with each and every statement you’ve made.

How many will live with that situation? Not many.

I’m only aware of the few thousand I see each and every day. Although, there could be others that don’t drive the same roads or times that I do.

Reminds me of some who buy a beautiful wooded lot, and then want to cut all the trees down, even though it is a wooded community.

And what exactly was growing where your house now stands?

We end up, in the vast majority, getting all the negatives and none of the expected positives.

What we end up with are a few paranoid individuals who simply can’t accept change.

Did you honestly think that PTC was always going to remain the peaceful, quiet little hamlet you call home?

Your kid grew up, what made you think the thriving community you live in wouldn’t?

Please crawl out of the 1960’s “leave it to Beaver” life you think you have here.

“My, that’s a lovely dress you’re wearing Mrs. Celaver.”

PTC Guy, I told you this afternoon that the west side was going to be annexed. Maybe you should have listened.

Do you want to take odds on my other predictions?

I really have no idea what is is you do for a living, but figuring out what cities, countys, states, and nations are going to do is how I make a living.

Care to place a bet on GRTA now?

Like I said before, ain’t consulting wonderful?

I know what GRTA is (looked at their website) but what are you saying GRTA is going to do? Buses? Trains?

Yes, buses anyway. I don’t know if trains are even an option.

A little history with me on this subject.

I’ve been telling some of the more, “we don’t want GRTA because it will attract undesirables into our community” group.

Hwy. 74 is a parking lot everyday during “rush-hour” anywhere within 5 miles of I-85. It has been for the past few years. The traffic volume on Hwy. 74 has doubled in the last 5 years alone, as per the GADoT’s latest report.

PTC did a study in 1999 and concluded that there was nothing wrong with the traffic flows in and out of PTC. Last month they say that based on that study, they don’t have to do anything about the traffic on Hwy. 74. I guess they didn’t see that the traffic volume on Hwy. 74 has doubled in the last 5 years, did they!

Now if we get most of these new developments, plus the additional growth that Coweta County is going to add, Hwy. 74 will be joke.

The I-85 interchange is controlled by Fulton County, not Fayette. Fulton County, just north of PTC has been, and will continue to, build that area up.

The traffic coming south on I-85 in the afternoon from 5:00 up until 6:30 is backed up to Union City. That’s parked cars in the right lane of I-85 for almost 4 miles before the exit to Hwy. 74. The actual exit ramp is a nightmare as people fly down the second to the right lane hoping that they’ll be able to cut someone off at the last moment and cut into the waiting traffic.

North bound is no better in the morning rush-hour on Hwy. 74. Why is it faster for me to cut through Tyrone and get on I-85 north bound at the Collingsworth/Palmetto ramp then it is to go straight up Hwy. 74? It’s only 8 miles longer.

If the air quality in the Atlanta metro area doesn’t improve, cars sitting on highways and interstates not moving don’t help that, GRTA can take control of all Federal money for all road improvements away from the counties. They have the power to hold that money as ransom if we don’t implement some form of MAS TRANSIT.

If the biggest argument against allowing GRTA into Fayette County has been “it will attract undesirables into our community”, then guess what. What do you think is going to happen now that Coweta County is going to build them houses right next door to you?

So much for not having your undesirables.

Now what’s the excuse for not having GRTA?

That's what you call it. It's obvious to me you haven't EVER driven around the Atlnta Metro area in prime time. It's probably one of the least busy main intersections that you will come across. That statement tells me you are somewhat out of the loop.

I have friends visit for the concerts on Friday evenings, they all live either in Henry Co or Cobb Co or North Fulton. To a person, they are amazed at the access that 74 gives them coming into PTC, at prime time. They are usually coming around 5:30-6 PM.

Could it be better? maybe, but it IS better than most metro ATL areas right now.

I would like to see the bridge widened over 85, and the road 3 laned to town. Other than that, don't mess with it, it's not that bad right now.

Sorry dog, but I do it every day
If I leave my home at 7:00 AM and head towards I-85 it’s not uncommon to see the traffic backed up to just past Sandy Creek Road.

I’ve timed it, I can turn onto Collingsworth/Palmetto Rd. , get on I-85 N and be at the Hwy. 74 exit in about 15 minuets. That’s about 8 miles. I’ve sat in traffic on Hwy. 74 from Sandy Creek Rd. and it has taken longer to get on I-85. That’s just under 3 miles.

Ever since that cross-dock facility opened off of Oakley Industrial Blvd. traffic has been a nightmare. Have you seen the townhouses that sprung up where the Renaissance festival used to be? And it’s only going to get worse.

That area is one of Fulton County’s greatest tax areas.

If I leave my home at 5:10 AM, I hit stop and go traffic just after Milam Road.

Did you already forget what you wrote on 08/15/2006?

A ramp at 92/I-85 would be helpful

Didn't you post this?

And I've never seen the traffic backed up as you say. We will just agree to disagree on this one. I don't drive it everyday, but the days I do, it moves fine. I've seen the right lane backed up to the apartments on the left/southside of 74, well north of the Funeral Home, but the left lane usually moves fine, two lanes can get on the interstate going north, and this seems to confound people too. Face it, most folks can't negotiate turns.

I think we all realize, the interchange needs to be re-worked sooner than later. I stand by my statement, that it's better than most areas. But as we know, the area right around 74/I-85 is growing very fast.

Isn't going to make it any easier. You STILL are going to sit in traffic because a ton of that traffic cannot use the bus, even if there.

We need more roads.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

But what I won’t be doing is PAYING for it.

Like I said somewhere else, my employer will pay for my TOTAL cost of riding GRTA.

Several employers do.

I'll either be asleep or reading a book. (not that people I see driving aren’t doing that already)

In all honesty, buses on Highway 74 will sit at the same red lights and crawl through the same traffic as the cars. There aren't any HOV lanes on I-85 either. How's GRTA going to help?

What we really need are some responsible elected officials who will vote in a manner that preserves the long term interests of their communities. That would save a ton of traffic. The Coweta plans on the table are ridiculous and the PTC Westside is just as bad.

Vote Republican

So what do you propose? Do you honestly think that over development can be stopped? It hasn’t stopped anywhere else in the Atlanta area. Our turn is coming. Why don’t we at least try and prepare for it.

Like I said before, the developers own the land, not the cities, not the county.

The only prayer you have of stopping overdevelopment is the water supply.

For every bus that’s 50+ cars that wont be on the road.
Riding a bus will save me some 5,200 dollars a year.
My company will pay me to ride the bus. So will several other employers. So it actually costs me NOTHING to commute. What a concept.

What we really need are some responsible elected officials who will vote in a manner that preserves the long term interests of their communities.

And how many fairies can you get to dance on the head of a pin?

I’ll tell you what. You keep wishing in one hand and poop in the other then let me know which one fills up first.

So I presume you prefer light rail instead?

This would solve travel problems. Maybe we could attract young urban polished professionals to live here. If they have an easy way to get to work in Atlanta, maybe they would do it.
These young professionals would be a breath of fresh air this city needs.

You will find the many of those opposed are opposed because they have lived in areas that had the buses and rail.

Think about it.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I have lived in densely populated areas and I've seen good and bad.
The transportation system has no real impact on the crime as far as I could tell.
In fact, it did result in higher rents and land/house values where light rail was installed.
From what I saw, (they learned this the hard way where I was) the key to keeping crime down is to keep out high density housing units (crammed high-rise apartment type buildings), keep a tight fist on the crime and prevent rundown property - this last is something our "pretty-police" will certainly help do.

We lived in Maryland when the Mass Transit expanded in.

Crime rates soared where we were, due to criminals shuttling in and out of the area.

I posted a study that shows crime at the origination point, where they was already crime, and outlying, where it was to far to go to, experienced zero crime growth. But the suburbs in between did experience immediate increase.

And, as with Newnan, that bad_ptc loves to use.

The county, as a whole, had a crime decline during that time period, but where the buses came in there was a noticeable increase in crime.

He quoted the overall decrease. But when I said you need to factor the crime stats by county regions to see a big increase in the bus areas, he went silent.

Look at the stats of onboard rail crimes. They are a problem everywhere that the system connects to high crime areas.

Saying it stays on the train is naive.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

What I meant to say - guess I worded my post wrong - is that what I SAW didn't increase crime.
I don't have the statistics to back it up but I'm still pretty certain there are ways to work around the crime problem with mass transit.

My theory:
- Crime is comitted by people that make bad, stupid decisions.
- People that make those types of decisions tend not to make the decisions necessary to hold down a job much less have a successful career.
- The more these people are allowed to get away with petty things, the worse the problem becomes
- A large portion of crime is committed by a very small portion of the population
- The way to keep crime and criminals out is to provide a strong (not just large) police force (including components like our Pretty Police) and judiciary, identify the troublemakers and get them to jail, and make sure the community understands that criminal stupidity is not tolerated here.

Every now and again I do have to do the work I get paid to do.

The stats I provided you were from the F.B.I.

I’ve never seen the stats that you claim to have.

Please provide them.

“If” things develop as some have expressed fear about, what would you propose to handle the traffic on Hwy. 74?

Add what we do not have now. Bleeder and feeder roads.

Everyone is simply stuck on 74.

It is insane thinking to believe everyone has to go on ONE road only to get anywhere.

Look at the distance between 74 and the next exist. We have ONE highway to handle all the traffic coming out of Atlanta and feeding to eastern part of Coweta, Merriweather and the western half of Fayette County.

And no bleeders or feeders.

It is insane thinking. Like a tree with no branches. Or calling one tree a forest.

NO MASS TRANSIT! We already dealt with the stats and I showed the crime dispersal patterns.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

You’re worried about the undesirables taking a GRTA bus to PTC and robbing you and you’re are okay with a couple hundred townhouses and, God forbid, ARARTMENTS that you haven’t heard about yet coming to a County near you?

What you can’t quite get a grip on is that the undesirables are going to be moving right down the street from where you live. They won’t need the bus to come visit your neighborhood. They’ll be able to steal your golf cart and visit as often as they want.

Where did you get the impression that only houses and stores were going to be built?

Section 8 apartments make a developer a whole lot of money.

I’m sure Newnan would rather have apartments closer to PTC than to them.

Not more, spin, please.

I have never said I was okay with more apartments.

Now, you need to take a look at what non secion 8 apartments rent for here. Pretty cost prohibitive for many problem makers.

Further, the next big section 8 complex being planned is in South Fulton, making Fayette very accessible by either rail or bus.

An exactly what makes you think apartments = Section 8?

And townhomes attracting low lifes? Excuse me, but have you looked at the price of new townhomes in Fayette?

Many are as big, or bigger, than free standing homes.

You need to make sure you are quoting the correct person when you say things said. And get facts straight.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

The undesirables are already here, and their birthcontrol failures are causing the lions share of the crime.

He thinks they have to take a bus to get here.

These frumpy dumpy family freaks and their thug kids have ruined everything that was good here. Look at this past summer; apart from the armed robber still on the lam, all of the other crimes were commited by teens.

I am an empty nester. My kid is married and does not live here.

So you can get off the assumptions there and trying to lump me in with other issues. Don't fly.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

It won't do any good to 3 lane it to I-85 without widening the bridge, is that in any proposals you've seen? It's not in any I have seen.

Coweta needs another corridor to I-85.....Why don't they propose widening Fisher's Luck and see how their citizens like that....

It’s my understanding that 74 was only going to be widened to three lanes, both ways, from 54 south to Hwy. 85.

I thought the project that they are getting ready to start was to widen 74 to 2 lanes each way from 54 south to Crosstown.

I thought it was being proposed 3 lanes from 54 north to I-85. Proposed...is the key.

It doesn't sound like either one of us knows.

Phase 1 of Hwy. 74 widening to end Oct. 31, project to impact Senoia, PTC commuters
Thu, 08/03/2006 - 4:05pmBy: John Munford
A contractor has been selected for the widening of Ga. Highway 74 from Ga. Highway 54 to just south of Crosstown Road in Peachtree City.

APAC Southeast Inc. will perform the $28.8 million project, which must be completed by Oct. 31, 2008, according to the Georgia Department of Transportation. A start date has not been determined, but that will occur at an upcoming pre-construction conference, officials said.
The project is sure to impact commuters from south Peachtree City and Senoia who depend on Hwy. 74 to travel to work and back each day.
The state will be expanding Hwy. 74 from two to six lanes, and there are also plans for concrete sound barriers along portions of the route.

This is the first phase of a two-pronged project to widen Hwy. 74 from Hwy. 54 to Ga. Highway 85. The second phase will include the widening from Crosstown Road to Hwy. 85, but bids have not yet been advertised, officials said. That phase will consist of widening from two to four lanes.
APAC’s bid was awarded by the DOT on July 21.

It's not clear at all on where/when the 3 laned portion will be. Thanks.

Thanks bad_ptc. I, for one, appreciate all the time and effort you put into the feasibility for GRTA in PTC.

I don’t know for sure but I’d bet those that are opposed, work in “The Bubble” and never have to face the 74 parking lot twice a day. Maybe they should get up early on a week day and take a field trip up 74 during rush hour.

I agree! Also, not to mention the traffic lights on 74 every few miles and I'm sure there will more lights coming in the future.
and hey ptcgv, like your Red Sox emblem! Go Sox!

We have neither the warehouses or cargo handling centers Fayette County.

Yes, South Fulton is getting more congested.

No. That does not mean we want GRTA.

The area she had representatives from was South Fulton and north. No one from Coweta or Fayette.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Like I said, it must be awfully dark from your point of view.

Hardy gave the example of the intersection at Oakley Industrial and Ga. Highway 74. Six years ago, she said, there were no hotels, no fast food restaurants, virtually nothing at all. Today, the intersection is teeming with increasing businesses, increasing truck traffic from mega-distribution centers, all with no end in sight.

What other interchange serves PTC?

Okay, wait until the Westside get developed, if we annex it or not, it’s coming.

Wait for the explosion of housing along Hyw. 16 in Coweta County, it’s coming.

Wait for the explosion of housing Senoia, it’s coming.

Don’t wait for future housing/apartments and commercial development
going up in the south end of Fulton County on Hwy 74, they're already being built.

I take it that we’ll NEVER hear you complain when MARTA/GRTA gets shoved down your throat because you took NO action when you had the chance and you enjoy the view from under the sand.

Just incase you didn’t know:

GRTA doesn’t need Fayette Counties permission to do anything. It was granted full, unopposed control by the governor to deal with the growing transportation issues in the greater Atlanta area. Oh, by the way, that means Fayette County.

GRTA (pronounced gret-a) is the State of Georgia authority working to improve Georgia's mobility, air quality, and land use practices. The governor and legislature created GRTA as a catalyst to move the Atlanta region forward.

GRTA’s JURISDICTION
GRTA assists 13 counties that have been designated nonattainment for ozone and particulate matter under the Federal Clean Air Act standards. That jurisdiction may be extended to other counties in the region that have also been designated nonattainment.
Cherokee
DeKalb
Forsyth
Henry
Clayton
Douglas
Fulton
Paulding
Cobb
Fayette, Is that where PTC is?
Gwinnett
Rockdale
Coweta

In addition to that, the Atlanta regional area FAILED the clean air standards AGAIN!

That means that unless improvements are made, and quickly, there will be NO Federal money for new roads and/or road improvements.

Do you know what it costs to build/maintain a road?

It's a good thing you got rid of Dunn, he was about the only firend Fayette County had with GRTA.

P. S. Remember PTC Guy, "you reap what you sow".

Your comment on the West Side going to get annexed. DAH!!

One would have to be blind to not see that was going to happen. Regardless of how anything else turned out.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I’ve herd the same old song and dance that GRTA will bring the “undesirables” to our community. Fine, now show me proof that GRTA has done that anywhere. Some spout off at the mouth that crime will increase, now prove it to me.
As have I heard yours. Thus why I posted the study, which you obviously ignored.

I just spent the last few hours going over the F.B.I. crime statistics for the Atlanta area for the past 8 years. As a rule crime has increased at almost the exact same percentage as the population has increased.
And those stats are for all crime. Not a study only for crime stat changes relating to introduction of mass transit in suburban communities.

And mass transit has been there for years. So a pointless effort.

You have to pull up the studies of just prior to and after introdction to have nay meaning.

Now get this, as an example of GRTA increasing crime, from 2004 to 2005 the crime rate in Coweta went DOWN. Now remember that GRTA started rolling into Coweta County around November of 2004.

That is all of Coweta. Not just the area impacted by mass transit.

The Sheriff said there was a crime increase, be it small.

Stop comparing apples to oranges.

The numbers are:

Now please show me where GRTA contributed to this great crime wave.

What were the stats of areas specifically accessible to the bus terminal. Sheriff said there was an increase.

If normal crime to the areas went down but near the bus station went up slightly, that means the actual number of increase from the bus was higher because the normal crime decrease suppressed the number.

You are not dealing with the right numbers/

The numbers for Clayton County are better than that. The kicker is that the only other Atlanta metro county that “chose” not to have GRTA service was Cherokee and their crime has increased in all respects. Go figure.

Again, you are looking at all numbers.

Clayton has its own in county buss system. They did not want Marta because of its negatives.

Now remember this, when the Governors office mandates that all Atlanta metro counties institute public transportation as a means to alleviate traffic congestion, smog, and fuel consumption Fayette County will find itself on the defensive. Federal and state money for road improvements will dry up if we don’t do something. It’s happened once and you can bet it will happen again.

Now we play the guessing game.

So, we put in an incounty shuttle system to meet the demand. Still keeps Marta out.

Now don’t try and tell me that I’m playing chicken little. The smog in Atlanta is monitored by the Federal Govt. and Atlanta pays dearly for it. When Fayette County joined the ARC, our Federal highway money got tied to it.

More complex than that.

Road improvements are NOT the answer. Anybody seen LA lately? We don’t control the ONLY access to I85, Fulton County does. Add to that the city of Fairburn has NO intentions of slowing growth along its part of the Hwy. 74 corridor.

But neither does that demand you have the answer either.

When people can’t afford to commute to Atlanta, they will move. With them goes their money. I would think a good business man would see that operating a business with no customers to pay for his or goods or services is a business with no future.

So, we become the retirement capital of the south. Then Phooey on Atlanta.

When a community finds itself in a position where those that are making and SPENDING the money leave, home values decline. That’s a fact!

Time will tell.

Businesses are closing all over PTC because they are no longer profitable. PTC never has and never will have sufficient business opportunities to employ the residents and sustain the infrastructure at the same time.

Business are fold everywhere, including Atlanta.

The economy is a disaster.

Face it, the jobs that make PTC possible are in Atlanta.

Hmmmm. The Airport is not in Atlanta.

We would be much better off if WE designed our own system verses having it designed for us.

Present a plan.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

What were the stats of areas specifically accessible to the bus terminal. Sheriff said there was an increase.
If normal crime to the areas went down but near the bus station went up slightly, that means the actual number of increase from the bus was higher because the normal crime decrease suppressed the number.
You are not dealing with the right numbers

It was the Newnan Chief of Police. Is that close enough?

And those stats are for all crime. Not a study only for crime stat changes relating to introduction of mass transit in suburban communities.
And mass transit has been there for years. So a pointless effort.
You have to pull up the studies of just prior to and after introduction to have nay meaning.

The years are just prior to and just after the introduction of GRTA. That’s why I chose them.

Again, you are looking at all numbers.
Clayton has its own in county buss system. They did not want Marta because of its negatives.

Clayton’s system goes into and out of Atlanta just like GRTA does. What Clayton wanted and got was control. I’ve got no problem with that. Maybe Fayette should do the same.

So, we put in an incounty shuttle system to meet the demand. Still keeps Marta out.

Again, I have no problem with that.

But neither does that demand you have the answer either.

At least I recognize that there is a problem and have “an” answer. What I don’t see is Fayette County doing anything about it other than hiding there collective heads in the sand. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

While on at it, why does the traffic on I85 south backup to the Union City exit each and every afternoon at rush hour?

Hmmmm. The Airport is not in Atlanta.

Contrary to popular opinion, not everybody in PTC works for Delta.

Present a plan.

I did.

What were the stats of areas specifically accessible to the bus terminal. Sheriff said there was an increase.
If normal crime to the areas went down but near the bus station went up slightly, that means the actual number of increase from the bus was higher because the normal crime decrease suppressed the number.
You are not dealing with the right numbers

It was the Newnan Chief of Police. Is that close enough?

Not even.

You are diluting the crime increase numbers by calculating them over the whole county.

You would need to know the crime rates for the GRTC area only, prior and after. And that will give you a much bigger crime increas.

Example:
I have 10 areas with crime at 10 each. Total is 100. Averaage 10.
9 areas fall to 9 each, but one increases to 11. Total is 99. Average is .99 and indicates a 1% fall for the whole.

But the fact is for 9 the fall was 19% and for the one the increase was 10%

See the point?

Transit systems play with the numbers to make it look better than it is.

And those stats are for all crime. Not a study only for crime stat changes relating to introduction of mass transit in suburban communities.
And mass transit has been there for years. So a pointless effort.
You have to pull up the studies of just prior to and after introduction to have nay meaning.

The years are just prior to and just after the introduction of GRTA. That’s why I chose them.

But they are for the whole county. Not the areas impacted by GRTC.

Again, you are looking at all numbers.

Clayton has its own in county buss system. They did not want Marta because of its negatives.

Clayton’s system goes into and out of Atlanta just like GRTA does. What Clayton wanted and got was control. I’ve got no problem with that. Maybe Fayette should do the same.

Control means a lot. But I am still leary that it will not keep out what we don't want, here.

So, we put in an incounty shuttle system to meet the demand. Still keeps Marta out.

Again, I have no problem with that.

Maybe. But not until really dug into with a lot of discussion.

But neither does that demand you have the answer either.

At least I recognize that there is a problem and have “an” answer. What I don’t see is Fayette County doing anything about it other than hiding there collective heads in the sand. Ignoring the problem will not make it go away.

Now you are getting complex.

Most of us recognize what is going on. But unless there is a way that answers it that does not take away the character of Fayette, it isn't going to fly.

While on at it, why does the traffic on I85 south backup to the Union City exit each and every afternoon at rush hour?

That is one way to Fairburn, a lot of homes behind the Mall area that is easier to reach there and gets onto 138, where east of there is a lot homes as well.

Hmmmm. The Airport is not in Atlanta.

Contrary to popular opinion, not everybody in PTC works for Delta.

And fewer everyday. But the Airport is not 'Delta.' There is a lot more there than than that, and on Loop Road, in example.

Present a plan.

I did.

Well, bring in GRTA and open the county up isn't going to fly around here.

Needs to be more creative than that.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

What happens in St. Louis is not relevant to Atlanta. St. Lewis has been in the economic trashcan for decades. Your analogy to St. Louis could be used for the entire state of Louisiana and would carry just as much weight and still be worthless.

What you keep missing is that GRTA is NOT the same thing as side of the road regular bus service or rail service.

Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Private commuter service is currently too unorganized to be of any use to Fayette County.

The last “study” PTC has done was in 1999. I would suggest things have changed since then.

You want studies, here you go. I read your's now read mine.

http://www.uctc.net/papers/614.pdf

Journeys to Crime: Assessing the Effects of a
Light Rail Line on Crime in the
Neighborhoods
Robin Liggett
Anastasia Loukaltou-S1dens
Hlroyukl Isekl

“There is little empirical research that has investigated the issue of transit-related crime in outlying residential or commercial areas by perpetrators who have used the transit system The findings of such studies are contradictory to a study that analyzed police crime reports for transit related crime in an unnamed city, Shellow et at (I974) found that criminal predators tended to work in familiar for them territories and were not likely to use public transit as a means for extending their territories as a means for escape Examining crime patterns of the neighborhoods around three Baltimore stations for three years before and three years after the metro line’s opening Piano (1993) found that reported crime was on an upward and erratic trend after the opening of the stations.

However, lack of accurate crime locations prevented him from attributing the crime increases to the stations’ opening, or from identifying any distance trends or clustering patterns of the crime occurrences An analysis of burglary trends before and after the opening of two MARTA stations in suburban Atlanta found no evidence to suggest that burglaries have increased after the opening of the stations (Polster, 1996).

In a study of crime patterns before and after the opening of the BIue Line in Los Angeles Loukartou-Sideris and Banerje (1994) found that in most station areas the introduction of the light rail lines has reduced crime incidence in the immediate station neighborhood. The study also found that the station area was relatively safer than their larger surrounding communities a fact attributed to the high deployment and visibility of transit police.”

The review of the literature reveals that the empirical research about the effect of transit on the crime rates of adjacent eighborhoods is quite inconclusive The few studies on the topic have produced mixed or contradictory results.

Please don’t get me wrong. You stand an even chance of convincing me that GRTA is not the right option for Fayette County. You just haven’t done it yet. Conversely, you too may be converted.

Who said that this forum can’t change peoples opinions?

What happens in St. Louis is not relevant to Atlanta. St. Lewis has been in the economic trashcan for decades. Your analogy to St. Louis could be used for the entire state of Louisiana and would carry just as much weight and still be worthless.

The study was based on national data. Not just on St. Louis.

What you keep missing is that GRTA is NOT the same thing as side of the road regular bus service or rail service.

Really? GRTA works to unify Marta and all the other public services into one big network.

Again, from their own site:
GRTA is working on:

MOBILITY
GRTA partners with metro Atlanta counties and others, helping them implement public transportation and public transit projects and measure the performance of the transportation network. Projects include:

2005 Transportation MAP Report – An annual report on the region’s progress toward improved Mobility, Transit Accessibility, Air Quality, and Safety.
Xpress – the clean, comfortable, convenient commuter coach service
C-TRAN – Local bus service for Clayton County
Northwest I-75/I-575 HOV/BRT Study – Improving traffic flow and public transit in the Northwest.

Marta is also a partner.

Where do you not see the 'public' in this?

Talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Private commuter service is currently too unorganized to be of any use to Fayette County.

Your opinion.

The last “study” PTC has done was in 1999. I would suggest things have changed since then.

Not in people not wanting. Why do you think people move here?

You want studies, here you go. I read your's now read mine.

You did not read well if you say it came from St. Louis only.

http://www.uctc.net/papers/614.pdf

Journeys to Crime: Assessing the Effects of a
Light Rail Line on Crime in the
Neighborhoods
Robin Liggett
Anastasia Loukaltou-S1dens
Hlroyukl Isekl

Right off the bat, we are not talking light rail.

“There is little empirical research that has investigated the issue of transit-related crime in outlying residential or commercial areas by perpetrators who have used the transit system The findings of such studies are contradictory to a study that analyzed police crime reports for transit related crime in an unnamed city, Shellow et at (I974)

Single city. The one I posted was from multiple city sources.

And there are reports, from other cities, where when relatively isolcated suburgs (a really good test sample to look at, being isolated, were connected, crime went up).

Sorry, I failed to save the URL on that one.

found that criminal predators tended to work in familiar for them territories and were not likely to use public transit as a means for extending their territories as a means for escape Examining crime patterns of the neighborhoods around three Baltimore stations for three years before and three years after the metro line’s opening Piano (1993) found that reported crime was on an upward and erratic trend after the opening of the stations.

Which is in keeping with my study. Which said the crime rates of the point of origin and those terminals too distant to be affordable to reach, crime did not rise.

But here shows crime rising. Why? Because more moved there to have access to the rail maybe?

Do you want to argue that crime on the rail, itself, is not an issue in all mass transits systems?

However, lack of accurate crime locations prevented him from attributing the crime increases to the stations’ opening, or from identifying any distance trends or clustering patterns of the crime occurrences

A self admission he did not have the data to say, either way, what relation of cause and effect the rail had.

Which makes my assumption a valid potential answer.

An analysis of burglary trends before and after the opening of two MARTA stations in suburban Atlanta found no evidence to suggest that burglaries have increased after the opening of the stations (Polster, 1996).

I cannot find this study in any search combinations. So I do not have a clue what the parameters were.

Marta is not into the suburbs we are talking about. Most counties will not let them in.

So, this is flawed data for our puposes.

In a study of crime patterns before and after the opening of the BIue Line in Los Angeles Loukartou-Sideris and Banerje (1994) found that in most station areas the introduction of the light rail lines has reduced crime incidence in the immediate station neighborhood.

Yes. In keeping with study I showed. Pressure is taken off the source, but moved mid range on the line.

The criminals did not quite being criminals because the rail was put in.

The study also found that the station area was relatively safer than their larger surrounding communities a fact attributed to the high deployment and visibility of transit police.”

Again, where did the criminals go?

Relatively safe, but you better watch your wallet and purse!

The review of the literature reveals that the empirical research about the effect of transit on the crime rates of adjacent eighborhoods is quite inconclusive The few studies on the topic have produced mixed or contradictory results.

Because most of the studies were done at the backing of the transit authorities, whose interest is to promote the rail.

It is common knowledge they under report crime to the police.

And, as in one place, where crime jumped, they went in with propoganda teams to convince the people the rail was safe and did not bring in the crime.

Please don’t get me wrong. You stand an even chance of convincing me that GRTA is not the right option for Fayette County. You just haven’t done it yet. Conversely, you too may be converted.

Sorry, you are not going to convert me.

My wife had less experience than I, in such matters. She made the mistake of putting her purse over her shoulder for a few minutes in a train statiion, in Atlanta, when seeing some relatives off. Her wallet got lifted.

The rail guy says it happens multiple times every day. He took a report and added it to the stack.

We lived in an apartment complex, on Rockville Pike, MD. When they announced a Metro station was going to be built right across the road, the owners turned it condo and bailed.

We were curious and checked when the terminal was completed, which was a bit after we moved out of state.

Crime was up, they had constant problems with trespassers and illegal parking and so on.

Wheaton already had it in, before we left. Tore Wheaton Plaza apart with crime. Street crime skyrocketed.

And so on.

No. you will never convince me a public transit system belongs in Fayette.

Aberdeen Woods and Wynndam Conference Center have shuttles. They work.

One guy here has been using a shuttle to connect to Marta for years, to and from work, every day. It works.

Others, like me, cannot use mass transit. No one who runs routes can. No one whose work schedule does not mate up with the services can. No one working flex times can. No one who does any kind of shopping can. No one who must carry much paper work, and so on, can.

Get my point? Many people could not use it if they even wanted to.

And a lot of us moved to Fayette to escape or not be in an area that has it.

Mass transit bring huge apartment complexes and more subsidized housing.

Yes, there are good people in those. But look at the arrests and such. They are also where heavier legal issues occur.

I am not opposed to paid transportation systems for those who want or need. But not mass transit. No way and no how.

Another study, as I believe the one I posted showed, people are getting out of areas that high density or simply have mass trasnit.

Bring that into Fayette and you will move more people south of here to escape it. Then what have you gained when the load 74 and 54?

Who said that this forum can’t change peoples opinions?

Someone who said this little blog is for entertainment only. And filled with ranters and ravers.

Really, the roads need improving, drastically. And alternatives need to exist. But not mass transit.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Someone has to look into the future and make plans. Most people don't want that if it would mean public transportation where one doesn't have to drive a car, usually all alone, to Atlanta for instance. $50-75 gas fillups will soon require something different. Average wage people, even PTC, can't afford that very long. Young people not at all. The only draw here for minorities (I assume that is the fear) to ride a bus here and back would be to be your maid or gardener. The auto and oil companies are going to hold off alternative fuels for as many decades as possible, so as to use up their assets of Facilities for auto manufacturing and oil in the ground.

I am well aware of gas costs. Between 2 days a week, alone, I put 300 miles on, due to my business.

But I could never use a bus, or anything like it. I have to do multiple stops, haul serviced goods, pick up more, and the like.

Would I like to change careers? You bet. Mine is expensive and shrinking due to imports and computerization.

Can I change? Not unless I find somewhere else to go, locally. But being 55 kind of puts a crimp on people wanting one.

Now, that I have vented that frustration, I will move on.

Sorry, but the only draw is not being a maid or something like that. Crime is as well. And I am not racist on what I am getting at here.

20 years ago we went anywhere, in the county, without any expection of crime. Now, we are cautious in Fayetteville.

And have you noticed warnings, at PTC stores, to watch you wallet and purse? Yep. That kind of theft is increasing a bunch.

Economy goes down, as it is doing, and crime goes up. Always been a fact.

Look where the people doing the assualts, car jacking and thefts, in Fayetteveille, are coming from. Out of county.

It is a fact Fayette is close enough to high crime counties that buses will enable them to come here.

I know the issues with the auto and fuel industry. And I do agree with you there.

But mass transit, linking us up with Fulton and Clayton County, is not the answer. We are too close for it not to enable even more problems.

One in our commuity has solved that problem, for him. He does a shuttle bus up to a connector to Marta, every day. Then takes the shuttle back.

The shuttle is local. And thus uninviting to problem people.

Agree. Something has to happen. But we need to not jump at solutions. We need to be smart about it.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

In the nature of my work I could not use such, even if I wanted to. Which I don't.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

nobody believes that crap!!