Atlanta Has Most Expensive Commute

Provided By: The Associated Press
Last Modified: 6/1/2006 10:13:54 AM

LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. (AP) -- A research firm ranks metro Atlanta as the most expensive place in the nation for commuters.

Sperling's BestPlaces says the metro area's sprawl means longer commute distances and says a family with two people who work can expect to pay more than 57-hundred dollars a year for regular-grade gasoline.

James Sperling is president of BestPlaces, based in Portland, Oregon. He says wide-ranging growth is what is hurting drivers' pocketbooks.

In his words, "Basically it's the number of miles that people drive on a regular basis and the price of gas."

Rounding out his top five list are Birmingham, Alabama, and the Florida cities of Orlando, Jacksonville and Pensacola.

Sperling's based its findings on the price of gas on May ninth and the distance motorists drive and the amount of traffic congestion they encounter.

Matt Kanke is NOT among the people who commuter. He drives just seven minutes between his home in Gwinnett County and his job at a pet supply store in Lawrenceville. surprised that metro Atlanta has the priciest commute. He says people should try to live closer to where they work.

(Copyright © 2006, The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

I will stick with my experience from being in mass transit areas. And it has always proven to be a transportation source for criminals.

I don't need to research what I have lived through.

I am fully aware of the 74/85 intersection. I am fully aware of driving from PTC to Norcross.

I don't need a lecture on traffic in Fayette. The issue is whether GRTA is the answer.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Seeing how most of the businesses on Dividend Drive are “out" of business anywhere over there is a good place. Lots of parking spaces over at where Photo Circuits used to be.

I can’t speak to what you may have experienced in Philly, but I can speak to what happened in Maryland and Virginia, just outside of D.C. The METRO there is the best thing to happen since sliced bread. The property values soared once the areas were identified as being near a proposed METRO stop.

Look at the prices of homes in the Vienna, Reston and Oxen Hill areas. The average price of a home in those areas has increased over 200% in the last ten years. With home prices approaching $1,000,000 for what we can buy here in PTC for around 300,000. Take a look at the home prices as far out as 50 miles.

True, most of that increase is due to the fact that “Beltway Bandits”, Govt. contractors, now cover most of that area. Both Maryland and Virginia have to rent trucks to haul all the property tax money they’re getting. Fayette County wont have to contend with that issue.

Let’s face it, most cities on the east coast need or already have mass transportation systems. If Fayette County plans ours correctly then the state won’t do it for us.

If you were one of the ones, myself included, that thought shutting the schools down for a couple of days to save gas was stupid, just wait until the state mandates public transportation. I’ve seen it happen. At that point you don’t even get “Vaseline” or kissed.

bad_ptc is absolutely correct about the Metro system in Washington. I moved there before the subway years and then lived there to see the dramatic changes the subway system brought to the city and suburbs.

Crime did not increase because of Metro. Property values and upscale development did. Around Metro stops we saw an explosion in new office buidings, townhouses, and condos. Rising land values do not result in low income housing.

The people who used Metro were ordinary citizens--middle and working class neighbors. It is a fantasy that public transportation will just bring " a criminal element" to PTC.

Atlanta aspires to be a world-class city. Fayette county is part of the Atlanta metro area and might as well recognize that fact. A public transportation system linking all parts of the Atlanta area should be our goal.

MARTA is a tremendous asset to Atlanta. The system in some mode needs to be expanded to all outlying areas including PTC.

Yo chief we do not need an explosion in new office buildings, townhouses, nor condos. Have you herd of land use. One of the great topics our county commmissioners were at odds of.

We need to just continue to commute to Atlanta. We are a county of familys and most of all children, we do not need what happened in Washington!!!

PERIOD. You can have it. You knew when you moved here that Marta didn't come here, and we had no busses. I hope to keep it that way.

You think we want to be part of Atlanta?

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Unless you are old enouigh to die in a few years, what you want and what you will get are two different things. The die is cast and stopping a bus won't stop it.

We are just a few short years away from the several decade process of being swallowed up by Atlanta. And that is not a good thing.

Mass transit and colonization almost always cause a community to decline. Locally, we know that to be the case. Look at Lenox Mall for example. Once the jewel of Atlanta, they made the mistake of not fighting the on site MARTA station. Look what happened--- on Saturday nights, Lenox is a rapper cesspool chock full of shoplifters. Big contrast with just 1 mile to the north--- Phipps Plaza, which has a much lower theft rate and no MARTA station.

So, don’t worry about whether its Maxwell or Wells or Smith it doesn’t matter. And besides, the same county lawyer who will defend our land use plan is the same one who has gone 0 for career on all these recent sheriff’s suits. He’ll be like sending in the Girl Scouts against the Steelers.

Get used to it. Atlanta will be just another Detroit or Washington, DC. and we are right in the middle of it.

Maybe I have seen some things others have not.

But I have seen large cities with shared borders with suburbs where it is night and day between the two.

The burbs did not make the mistake of integrating services with the city or interconnecting transportation services.

It is not a given we will be absorbed by Atlanta. Not at all.

But that is one huge discussion I don't want to get into.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy

Sorry about the delay in responding to your post. I’ve been away for the past few weeks.

I too am NOT in favor of “public” transportation to and from PTC to Atlanta. However, GRTA is NOT a “public” transportation vehicle. It is basically a paid “commuter” service. There is a distinct difference between the two.

The GRTA commuter bus system has had NO appreciable connection to increased crime in Coweta County. Please reference my earlier post that included a letter from the Newnan Chief of Police. It has had a positive effect on traffic in that area.

I would ask you:

What would you suggest to alleviate the current traffic problems we now have in PTC and what do you propose about the future growth along Hwy. 74?

Do you have any idea what the number of commuters is between Fayette County and Atlanta?

For years PTC has been thumbing its nose at Senoia over Rockaway Road. Now its Fairburn’s turn to do the same to us over the 74/I85 interchange.

The 54/74 interchange, notice I didn’t call it an intersection, is just the beginning. As has been stated in the recent past, by you and others, the Fayette County land use plan pretty much throws cold water on large scale housing developments in Fayette County. That doesn’t hold true for Coweta County. Already there are plans in the works for major subdivisions along Hwy. 16 and throughout Senoia. All that additional traffic will have to pass thru the 54/74 interchange as well as the north and south along Hwy. 74.

And yes, I am aware of the private services that currently exist in our community; I’ve contact several.

An example of what I found out is this:
1-800-VAN-RIDE lists NO service in our area yet I can show you where three of their vans are parked.

If this is due to poor management or some other reason, I have no idea. All I do know for sure is that they are currently no help.

F.Y.I.

As you can see from the report below, “Public transportation (elderly, disadvantaged, disabled, students, commuters)” is one of the main concerns that the residents of Fayette County expressed.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Fayette County Transportation Plan Update
Final Report
April 2003 3-4

3.2 Recurring Themes
Throughout the public outreach activities and agency coordination meetings held with agency
staff and officials, the input received has been documented in a series of meeting memorandums.
Through all of the input received, below is a summary of the most common recurring themes that
have served to direct the Transportation Plan Update:

Growth, Development and General Transportation
• Growing traffic congestion is a concern
• Traffic safety should be a high priority
• Public transportation (elderly, disadvantaged, disabled, students, commuters)
• Cross-county travel is important

Traffic Operations
• Traffic signals – location and timing
• School traffic impacts are substantial and require attention
• Passing and turning lanes are important to safe and efficient operations
• Lighting is desirable at certain locations

Aesthetics and Quality of Life
• Urban versus rural design aesthetics
• Maintain landscaping
• Bike lanes are desirable
• Driver education may reduce accidents

Traffic Hotspots
• SR 85 corridor in Fayetteville
• SR 54 corridor in Peachtree City
• SR 279 South of SR 138
• SR 85/SR 54 intersection
• SR 279/SR 314 intersection

Funding, Implementation and Coordination
• Plan projects must be coordinated with GDOT and ARC plans
• County should leverage local funds to secure state and federal funds

The Transportation Plan Update sought to take into account all of the input received, as well as
follow the approach described in Section 2. Section 4 describes the recommended Plan resulting
from the study process and input received.
------------------------------------------------------------------

What I find truly amazing, notice I didn’t say surprising, is that the Fayette County Commissioners did NOTHING to implement any kind of solution for the commuting Fayette County residents despite the fact that it was listed third in order of importance.

I would hope that you, and the others that contribute to this forum, would realize is that Fayette County is in a unique position to implement a “commuter” solution that doesn’t include the collateral damage that a “public” transportation service would cause.

As with all things, the more educated one becomes about an issue, the better decisions one can make.

It may of been third but what they were infering is how better to commute to Atlanta via there own automobils not mass transit.

is indeed PUBLIC transportation. The whole purpose ***hole Roy Barnes had in creating and passing this legislation was to foist his version of public transportation on the citizens of this state whether they wanted it or not. Thank God we got rid of that jackass.

By the way, that legislation would enable a "board of directors" empaneled from anywhere in the state to dictate your zoning and transportation needs if they were so inclined.

We in Fayette County do not want that.

If you can reason that GRTA is not public because one would pay a fare to use it I want to hear you explain that MARTA is not public transportation. Pure BS!

Now, the fact is, Fayette County residents neither need or want public transportation. If you are dependent on public transportation, then move to Clayton, Fulton or Dekalb.

The best argument against public transportation is that wherever it goes, crime follows, riding the same transportation. Need I say more?

From the GRTA site.

GRTA will operate as an open, accountable, efficient and effective public authority.

Note the world public.

And it works to join all existing systems in a more extensive, fluid public system.

Nothing private about its goals.

As for no crime increase. That has not been my past experience. And segments of Philidelphia, in example experienced jumps in crime rates.

It will also encourage the Feds and such mandate more low cost, suplimented housing. Which will do wonders for property values and crime rates.

Please do not tell me crime does not increase with low cost housing.

What would I do? How about private shuttle services that may be more expensive, but can be a service exclusively to Fayette owners?

I have lived here 20 years. So I remember when there was no 'Hwy' 74 and 54 was two lanes.

When 54 widened, the elderly had a screaming fit about no death lanes, meaning duel direction center lanes. So, we have to do U turns and extra manuevering on side roads to get places.

But we did get pretty, high maintenance landscaping in center dividers. Much of which is dying in the heat.

Certain intersections did not allow left turns across traffic. And official refused to change it for a long time.

And look at the nonsense going on with 54/74. Starry eyed dreamers that making 54 4 lanes will fix it over for good.

PT Pkwy and other places get used as cut throughs to escape the intersection. Politicians get made people will not stay on 74.

And don't forget the nice, yellow speed bumps! Glad I don't go through there.

Buses are not the answer. Way too many peoples schedules just cannot be mated up to buses. And the time required to make all the transfers and such.

As for ARC. Only fools get hooked into that disaster. They want to take over your county. I don't want Fulton having any say in Fayette. Or Dekalb or Clayton.

As for the 'Fayette County Transportation Plan Update,' exactly who did they ask? Been here 20 years and never asked to take part in any info gathering by the County, except for water sample testing, which we do.

Oh, yea, and jury duty.

I don't want mass transit here. Been around it too much. You won't want if we get it, then it will too late.

County only or private, fine. But not GRTA, because it IS public.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Do you keep saying it is not public transportation.

Just because you pay does not mean it is private. Even they say it is public transportion. Show me where they say differently.

And DC Metro the best thing?! Excuse me! I liveed there when they began putting it in. And it was a nightmare.

The DC burbs have been souring in value forever! They cost a fortune when we lieved the 30 years ago.

Metro did nothing to increase their value. A whole other function did that.

And Reston, Vienna and Oxen Hill? Oh, come off it. That area has been climbing through the ceiling for decades.

Location, not Metro, is what is happening there. Land is a premium.

Look at Silver Springs. All the small business buildings I was use to have been torn down and replace by tall high rise businesses.

And I had family that lived there up to two years ago.

Do NOT atrribute any of that gain to Metro.

The land outside of the burbs, that still had some open space, when we were there, are all built out as well.

Many are leaving MD because you cannot aford to live there.

Here is a very complex study on crime rate in relation to transit.

Since it PDF I cannot copy and paste quotes.

Go to IX Conclusions.

It says crime decreases in the poor areas where the criminals live. Why? Because they move on to better hunting grounds.

Far away terminals see no appreciable increase because it is too expensive to get to.

But, the intermediate areas, where the income and other levels are higher than their resident area, experience significant increases in crime.

Now, how far are we from Clayton and Fulton county areas that are high crime?

So, you are wrong in a blanket statement crime does not increase.

I note you said Newnan had no significant increase, which means there is an increase.

Who is far closer to Clayton and Fulton, road wise? We are.

So, I believe you need to reevaluate your enthusiasm, here.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

You're ranting and raving again guy. Thanks and well done. You've scared the bejeemies out of me. You're right and I suppose I'd prefer to bury my head in the comfort of our little bedroom community. I tell folks that we have 8-10 years left before we find ourselves in the same boat as Clayton and Dekalb counties. I may be overly optimistic.

Highgreen...did I bejeemies right?

I can rant and rave with the best of them. Meaning you, of course.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

AMEN PTC DUDE you are right on!!

Some other please help me out here.

There was a proposal, before, for a local bus service that would handl Fayette and get people to where they could connect to other systems.

I never came to anything because of opposition, if I remember correctly to the needed parking lots and bus stop points.

Again, others help me out here and ironing out the history on that one.

So, where are the GRTA bus stops and parking lots going to be? They HAVE to be somewhere meaningful or the are pointless right off the bat.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Hi, I'm new to this forum, so be sweet to me For the record, Mass Transit kills the comminities it invades. I was raised in Clayton County, saw it first hand. I don't know what the transplants from 'up north' experiences were with mass transit, but here in the metro ATL area it's not been good to the burbs. Do people forget that the same bus that gets them into ATL to their jobs also makes stops and brings folks back here during the day? It's not a one way ride people. Go up to Old National Hwy to catch the Marta into Atlanta if you want, but leave the buses out of Fayette. I moved here 12 yrs ago to get my sons away from that element of society.

OK, got that off my chest...My Hubby and 10 of his coworkers utilize a GRTA Vanpool. It's not public. They pay GRTA $85 a month each and they drive themselves. There is only one departure and destination, nobody but registered participants can board the van. The GA Clean Air Commission (Somehow through GRTA) provides this service. They also pay individuals to carpool in their own vehicles. It's an alternative to mass transit!

Buses also kill communities they go to and from, in addition to comminities. Look at the facts though: when housing is bought by any group in mass,or rented, as in Riverdale, they soon need bus transportation. Many of them can not afford vehicles. So, if you don't want them, don't sell or rent them any houses! Oh, wait a minute, they are people, that may be illegal? Do it in some other conniving way, like lend them a lot of money from bandit, predator banks, foreclose, and then they will go back from where they came. Ten in a van, huh? Any women in there?

Where’s your proof?

Show me the numbers that say GRTA commuter bus service has caused any increase in crime anywhere.

The only thing I’ve seen from most of these posts is that there are a great number of people who live in fear.

That’s something I’m sure you will instill in your children. Live your life in fear. That’s a good lesson.

You are correct again there would be an eyesore bus stop somewher where we all could see. That would realy help the county probably somewhere on Hwy 54. Now that would be the begining of our land going down the tubes having a bus parking lot around here.

Oh I forgot an easy way for the criminals to get here and beter yet to get away after the crime!!!

NO MASS TRANS!!!

And does not really apply to the persons who would be attracted by GRTA. Riff raff refers to lower class "white trash" and that's not what you are concerned about.

The 'them" you mention are upper and middle class blacks who want their children to grow up in a nice community - like ours.

Explain your problem with that.

meow

I'm not stepping into that inside pitch. I'm glad the lion took that one on, I couldn't find the words.

Where have you been? Howdy. Let's keep GRTA out. It's not the middle class blacks that scare me. If they're good neighbors and "Classy" folks and they don't hate white people then a great big WELCOME to em. It's the ones that beat paths on the side of the Clayton County roadways, throw their trash and worthless lottery tickets around, and clearly demonstrate by their behavior and actions that they are "Trashy" that get me freaked out. Ever since the buses hit Clayton County it has become a ghetto haven. One thing Kitty...if you bring the buses in you should have plenty of homes to sell. Probably mine.

a "middle-class" black, I for one am not in favor of GRTA. I'm not pleased with being told that unless I/we participate in this plan, highway funds will be withheld. Funds needed to maintain current roadways, let alone adding new ones. But I digress. I've lived in Fulton County/ATL over 20 years before moving to Fayette and I've seen the deterioration of nearly everywhere Marta has a station or bus stop. I've also seen many said bus stops as merely signs on streets with no sidewalks for patrons to stand safely. There's no concensus or cohesion in forming a regional-wide transportation network, just a bunch of municipalities trying to keep "them" out of their neighborhoods. I work D'town and this is the farthest away I will move. I knew coming out here there'd be no mass transit and frankly, that's just the way I prefer it. If push comes to shove, I'd drive to a park-and-ride facility, but until then viva la commute!

My concern is with the criminal element of any race.

Every where I have lived, with mass transit present that connects to very poor and problem areas, criminals have used it to enter higher income levels to commit thefts, from pick-pocketing and shop lifting, to felony robbery and armed robbery.

Unfortunate, but true.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

This is for the professional employee and contributions are made by employer. This is not just a public bus system.

One foot on the floor

Tell your employer to put it into your 401K it will help you more in the long run.

GRTA Communter Options

Public transportation linking to multi-modal systems throughout the Atlanta region.

Nothing private about it.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

You mean they would be worse than what some are saying about our very own teenagers? Sometimes we sound like Jews and Palestinians, or Muslims and Christians, or Turks and Greeks, or Germans and most anybody. Fight all of the time about who is going to heaven.

Obviously you have never lived with mass transit. I have.

Don't tell me I am being racist or any other such thing until you know the impact it has on an area.

Crime is higher in such areas.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Just facts are all you are putting in this blog, it will inpact our area. I like it the way it is with even less development.

Sometimes I think you're Cal Beverly. I meant to say sometimes I think your Cal Beverly.

Three dollar gas is nothing.

How about four dollar coffee.

You folks need some perspective.

I hope gas doubles or more. I don't care. I'm not crazy (stupid, really) enough to live 35 miles from work and drive an SUV.

Actually the economic forecasts for fuel prices puts it somewhere around $4.30 – 4.60/gal. by 2010. I’m betting that’s conservative.

Don't drink $4.00 coffee. The coffee I make tastes just fine.

I've never owned an SUV. I drive a nine year old Honda

You mean there is an economist who knows what American gas will cost four years from now, and you believe him? You ought to believe me before that joker! Someone who knows about all the wars, depressions, terrorists activities, and other effects on oil should have a halo around his head. At least what I said is a known guess. $4.00 coffee isn't long for this world. If you own any Starbucks stock, I advise you to sell it. If they do survive it will be as a restaurant or a web place. And, by the way, being an American, I am still holding out for the $.69 per gallon gas we had just a few years back. Just as Saudi Arabia does for their citizens, our government could do that for us.

I'm pretty sure you aren't either.

Darn, we agree again. It really should cost $7.00 right now, with automatic provisions to increase at least $1.00 per year, plus whatever the oil and car companies want to add. That would allow us to take $3.00 of it for taxes, and then we wouldn't need 35% "fair tax," only 30%. No one has to drive. It is not like eating or shelter. What with rich oil companies (I mean richer oil companies) whatever is good for them, is good for America.