Free health care.
Health care is paid for now and will be paid for then!
Your taxes won't budge up a penny for that!
You don't pay enough taxes now.
We need to charge 20% for everything that we send out of the USA to others---let them charge what they will for their stuff, we will either buy it if necessary or not.

I would miss the cheap TVs.

Love the new avatar!

Yep he makes his rare appearance about this time every year. Very soon I'll "roll" out Santa on a bike. Yikes, where has this year gone?
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

A seasonal cyclist! Great!

You betcha!! Even though we all have our different opinions there is no reason to keep a blah scenery. I used to post my "hypnotoad" every now and then but Tug said it was too distracting. Do you remember sniffles "bug"?
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I remember that! (Used to kick myself for following the movements!) In the years I've participated on this blog - never used an avatar - but thorougly enjoyed the creativity of others! You're right - certainly not 'blah'!

You need an avatar!!!
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Repubs voted against even allowing illegals to buy private insurance. While I am not for amnesty and am for vigorous enforcement of existing immigration laws including widespread deportation, what point is made by denying illegals private, non-subsidized health care they paid for out of their own pocket? I thought that was an incredibly stupid move by the Repubs.

Yeah they want them to be pickers but they don't want them to be here. They want cheap roofs and gardening but don't want them here.

They want them to pay for their health but they don't want to allow them insurance.

Stupid crap!!!

Not if those who hire them put them on the payroll and deduct taxes. etc. (assuming they check their SS number).
Stop paying under the table for everyone, everywhere---even in Georgia.

Allso, if there were local neighborhood clinics where an "illegal" or anyone could get a band aid or a small suture, etc., free--it wouldn't be 1-3,000 dollars like an emergency room charges!!!!!

Just bring on the fair tax and all the illegals will be paying like everyone else. What a simple solution.

With about a 30% sales tax on everything, the "black market" will be so huge that one can buy most anything, around retail! They will be able to sell it 50% or more cheaper than a merchant.

Cigarettes in northern cities are that way now. Hijacked trucks of cigarettes, warehouse theft and extortion, provide the merchandise.

Example: Person buys a $35,000 auto at a dealership, having paid about $10,000 more for it in sales taxes = $45,000 car.

Thief, hijacker, burglar, bandit, etc., steals car, equiped with new serial number, etc., and puts it on the market for $25,000. (or $15,000 wholesale)

Or, dealers sell 10 cars a day, taking in $100,000 in sales taxes, which is $2,000,000 dollars a month in sales taxes.
What a new business that will be---getting $2,000,000 a month to the government!

OK, so it mostly is on credit (financed) what kind of paperwork jungle will that be for maybe five years per vehicle to get all the tax to Washington.

Then there is still the State Taxes to pay, the Property taxes to pay, the City taxes to pay, the school taxes to pay, all on minimum wages of $7.25 per hour or $15,000 per year!! The average wage per person right now is actually about $25,000 per year, per person.

Health care now is about $16,000 per family and is going up 12% per year!! Large corporations are reducing their pay dramatically, and small companies are dropping all input.

So, you say, the government will send us a check every month (from where and what)for about $300 to help us buy necessities under the "fair tax plan?" Honey, our welfare check is here, let's go shopping!!

I have a jewell of a black market scheme when it passes.

I'm also betting on the "Tea" people helping me----but I won't get into that here.

I wouldnt have a problem with that. I would not be paying any federal imcome tax. And if you dont like the tax you have a choice. Dont buy it. Right now the government steals your money at the point of a gun. I would rather have the option of not shopping. That is a no brainer. And just think all those 30 million illegals working now for cash would be paying the same federal tax as I am. Zero. And would pay the same fair tax as I would be if we shopped together. So bring it on.

You act as if the Fair Tax would be an additional tax. It is not. It replaces taxes that are currently in place and in fact usually you pay less. Go to FairTax.org and run the fair tax calculator. Are you really this misinformed? And as previously stated many that do not pay taxes now would have to then. Maybe you're one of those? Tax collections increase due to ALL paying and a huge savings for Uncle Sam as the IRS would shrink to about 25% of its current size. As for your black market scheme, well we already have a black market of people that work and do not pay taxes. Guess you think thats OK?

The FairTax is a fraud. Go to the calculator you cited and try to enter anything that doesn't lower your taxes. You can't do it. Everybody's taxes go down under all circumstances. Do you believe that?

Plus, you're trying to have it both ways. You can't argue that we are already paying the equivalent of the FairTax in "embedded taxes" in the stuff we buy now and at the same time argue that illegals somehow don't pay those embedded taxes too, when they buy something.

You implement a tax that raises as much revenue as income taxes do now and at the same time stops taxing businesses, the part of income that is saved, the tax on the sale of any used goods, estates, etc., and how do you think that tax money is made up? It's a massive shift of taxes to the middle class by taxing things that are not now taxed; like rent, your electric and gas bill, and a new 25% tax on gasoline. The FairTax even taxes your mortgage and credit card interest. A tax on your debt! That's a winning formula for sure.

The FairTax isn't a secret. Why do you think no serious politician, Democrat or Republican, supports it?

"Plus, you're trying to have it both ways. You can't argue that we are already paying the equivalent of the FairTax in "embedded taxes" in the stuff we buy now and at the same time argue that illegals somehow don't pay those embedded taxes too, when they buy something."

Illegals are now paying income taxes ? Wow I did not know that. (Sarcasm off)

Could we drop this stupid argument about 25-30% sales taxes instead of income taxes?

That ridiculous system will never pass the public smell test in congress, never.

If you want more taxes, get them from the makers of goods and then if citizens don't want to pay the cost---they won't. They will go to the black market for what they must have.

I didn't realize that topics to be discussed had to be cleared through you. Please feel free not to participate if this offends you so much.

The premise of the FairTax is that you're already paying its equivalent in embedded taxes so whenever anybody buys anything, including illegals, they're paying those taxes. As to the income tax, how many illegals make enough now to be paying more that a pittance given the tax structure we now have.

Which brings up another fraud about the FT. The claim that you're going to get 100% of your paycheck is only true after all the income taxes now being deducted are taken out, reducing your paycheck to your present take home pay. Then you get 100% of that. The FT people claim the price of goods will fall by 23% because businesses don't have to pay the embedded taxes, the biggest part of which are the income taxes they are withholding. They can't essentially give you a 23% raise by still paying you your present 100% gross pay and at the same time reduce the price of goods by the amount they are supposed to because they are saving so much money not paying the embedded taxes. If they still are paying you 100% of your gross paycheck, where are the savings they're supposed to be reducing the cost of goods by? The FT claims are totally illogical and fraudulent.

if I wound up paying the same in taxes and didn't have to file an income tax return. In short I guess I'm saying that while this isn't perfect, nothing is, it would be an improvement over what we have now. The savings/income to the government would have to be substantial just by reducing the size of the IRS and insuring that all pay income tax. Not just illegals but drug dealers, prostitutes, and crooked politicians also. And we need all the help we can get in paying down this deficit that we have. Passing the Fair tax would also result in the elimination of the corporate income tax. America's corporate income tax is the highest in the world and the reason that many large companies send so many of our jobs overseas. Fair tax would eliminate the incentive for doing this.

IS AN IDIOT....

and watch the news, other than to see how short the minis are that day? You miss the point--the one's who want to keep them here do not want to pay the going wage, pay taxes etc. Social Security numbers are a joke. Illegals go right to Gwinnett and get their phony SS# right after making it here. And, does anyone really think that if we make all the illegals that are here now legal that they then would be willing to work for what they have been? When they are demanding the same pay scale, where will the chicken processing plants, the farmers, the carpet industry etc., get their cheap labor?? Well, guess what--with the new crop of illegals --and as the old Sonny and Cher song says "And the beat goes on." I would suggest that you in your benevolency contact some of these free clinics and offer your time and money---I know you are not medically competent-but you could do other things. Put your money where your mouth is for once.

You know, if the illegals have a SS number, then the employer should be withholding tax and SS, huh?

Are you for or against hiring companies or farmers hiring illegals or not?
How do we handle a contractor picking up a person at the street corner asking only two questions: roofer? $10? Get in. (or Dias dollars, maybe). They still understand!

Want to pay $2,000 more for your house! Maybe $4,000? Get Pat the Irishman, or Jones the Limey. Hey and the 30% "fair" tax.

As to free clinics right now: first--tons of paperwork as to just how poor are you with stubs. Then determine the eligibility for government assistance (to the clinic), then send them to Grady.
The experts there is a recently graduated NP or RN or a heart surgeon
from Emory (just kidding there!)

These social security numbers are bogus--used for other things. I am very definitely against hiring illegals for farmers or anyone else. What motivation is there for Mexico or any other country to make their situation better if their people can come here, send money home-- and they do--Mexico even has the termerity to demand that we allow the illegals to be here. You either pay $2,000 more for your house up front or you pay it in extra taxes, etc. How do we handle contractors picking up illegals to work--fine or bring charges against them--what about all the legal citizens who have lost their jobs because illegals work for much lower wages? Do they not have rights as legal citizens? As for free clinics and paper work--do you prefer that there be no checks and balances? When I go to the doctor, I have to present my insurance information and what ever information is needed--and I am paying for it--so why is there a problem with people showing their need? And evidently you have missed the whole idea of the free clinics--they are treated there not sent to Grady or anywhere else unless it is something that cannot be handled at the clinic. Many doctors have nurse practictioners working in their offices, NPs are very qualified and RNs can handle many situations as they have in the past. You are past redemption.. stick to the minis.

I thought I might be somewhat obtuse until I read your answers then I know I am somewhat tuse. I am also ept, not inept.

I don't know what you said at all. Almost all of these "illegals" are doing work that our unemployed will not do as long as they can get unemployment insurance which pays about the same as roofing, gardening, washing dishes, mopping floors, digging ditches, masonry work, heavy lifting, etc.

Many are also legal---been here for generations.

You are beating a dead horse to death! There are about 55 million of them here and are not the ones crowding the emergency rooms.

I think I am wasting my time trying to have you see the whole truth of the problem.

You seem to be inordinately obtuse about minis.

A lot of them do have social security numbers they just happen to belong to somebody else.

BTW, don't you remember when e-verify was first unveiled and how the Latino special interest groups were most upset about it?
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I can't believe that anyone who has volunteered at a free clinic the last two years believes that these people are all 'moochers'. Many could have been my next-door neighbor - until he lost his job, his home, his benefits, his paychecks, etc. He is very grateful for the extension of unemployment benefits - and free clinics. AND THIS IS IN FAYETTE COUNTY! There are many organizations in the county that help others who are less fortunate (those who worked hard - and are victims of the current economy). It doesn't cost anything to 'volunteer'. .and usually takes less time than bogging.

any one as a moocher. Others on this site have but not I. Please indicate to me where I had said this on any blog I have posted here and I will render an apology. I have said that there are many people who have not used their resources wisely and too, I have said that right now we are in a different situation because of the job market etc. How dare you assume I do not volunteer. I do, I just don't constantly brag about it. Perhaps if you are so dedicated I may suggest you spend more time volunteering and less blogging. If you would be honest with yourself you would have to admit that the situation we are in now has been brought about by people extending themselves beyond their own means. Not everyone but many, thinking the bubble would never burst spent and spent--and this includes our government. There are those who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and as a consequence lost benefits and more--and that is sad. These people do deserve help--but help should be short term to get people back on their feet and to be self-sufficient. I am sure you mean well, but I am fast learning why others on this site lose their patience with you. You read exactly what you want into whatever anyone writes and get on your high horse and assume you do more, know more, and have a bigger heart than others. For shame.

Please, don't waste the energy resenting anyone on a blog. I was making a statement - not meaning to say you had referred to moochers - Joe referred us to an article regarding moochers. Today was a beautiful day - I hope you enjoyed it. Peace. (Actually there are many points that we agree on - but that is not important.) I won't comment to your contributions again.

speak up when I am accused of saying something I have not said. I have been reading your blogs for a long time without replying but I have seen your pattern over this time. You make your jabs at people and when they come back with a reply you come up with your swarmy statements--beautiful day-peace-etc. Your agenda is not lost on us.

MYTMITE

I think that you meant "smarmy".

LIBERALISM: The triumph of mindless, wishful thinking over logic, reason, and experience.

going along with the crowd pushing that claptrap that she seems to swallow. But you are right and I goofed. thanks.

I mean really sick..Everyone is at each other over something we have no controll over...because we gave it up to our politicians who don't pay us any attention now, only the money the lobbyist throw at them.

We have been bought and paid for.

This board is not sick....but.....no.....wait....there my be one that needs his meds every now and then.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

and I am retired...otherwise I wouldn't have the time to be on these boards like you do...if you still do something at DL, it must be of little importance for you to have all this free time..

I wasn't referring to you.

About my job; lets just say what I do is mandated by the Friendly Aviation Association so it has some importance.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Here's a link to a good article by Neal Boortz in the AJC this morning -

Neal Boortz: Moochers need free-market dose

"You have NO right to a portion of another person’s life, or to their property. None. Therefore, you cannot have a right to health care."

LIBERALISM: The triumph of mindless, wishful thinking over logic, reason, and experience.

What does one have a "right" to:

Not pay taxes? depriving others
Kill people? depriving their families
Be treated if shot on the street? has no insurance
Drive on a highway? how much tax did you pay?
Not Pay for Bush's wars?
on and on.

Boortz has been a "moocher" for most of his life---selling junk on the radio and lieing about all the stuff he has on his property from advertisers!

Ok, you might not like the man, but you didn't present any real contradiction to his conclusion. And if you really believe your last comment, why don't you just call him and tell him that on the air. You'll get priority treatment if you tell the screener that you disagree with something he said. What? Courage just a tad lacking?

That is wrong and what a bad time for her to bring up something like that.

on her own. She is doing the President's bidding. That's right, the President has to satisfy other campaign promises. Now it's going to be interesting to see how all these promises collide into one big mess.

Oh well, back to work I go.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Just enforce the law. Net them and deport them. What an easy way to help our severe unemployment figures.

If business owners would obey the law and pay minimum wage - we wouldn't have this problem. Americans would have an opportunity at employment, INS would enforce the law (not as many trying to arrive illegally to obtain work) and we would not be exposed to health problems that undocumented workers MIGHT bring to our country. To continue to make this a Dem/Repub contest is pound-foolish. (Much like the Fayette County residents voting against the SPLOST - and facing a raise in taxes or reduction of services.)

I don't watch laws or sausage getting made. These types of vote lead to "I voted against it before I voted for it". Here's a good rule of thumb to judge these votes: if Westmoreland voted for it then it was probably a bad bill. If he voted against it, it was probably a good bill. Using that rule, you can avoid an in-depth analysis of 90% of what Congress does.

Good advice!!

Not sure what you're looking for here--that clip shows Rep. Westmoreland addresing the House. At the beginning of each session, each member can address the House for 2 minutes on any topic chosen. And He voted "Noe" on the Health Care Reform Bill as did all of the Republicans---and oh by the way, 39 Democrats! You can see all Roll Call Votes by going to WWW.House.GOV, click on "Records" and you will find a listing for the Votes, listed by Congressional Session.

11/7 888 h res 895
11/7 887 h r 3962 No
11/7 886 h r 3962 Aye
11/7 885 h r 3962 Yea
11/7 884 h r 3962 Yea

This is what I found confusing. It appears that there were three or four roll call votes on Hr 3962. Moreland voted yes on one or two and no on one. This was in the section RECENT VOTES.

You'e welcome. I don't pretend to understand all the inner workings of Congress, but appears that several of the votes were of the procedural variety. The only one that really counted was 887.

Maybe Jeff can help us out.

,

I would be shocked if he voted for the Govt take over of Health Care.

you walk in the ER say with a broken arm... Are you saying they will wait for months to be treated?

"Just the fact that they are taking steps to punish those who have taken billions from Medicare illegally should help with the cost."

and could you explain just what the Government is doing?
I have not seen one arrest or one agency taken to task.. Could be wrong..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Patient who has Medicaid; Goes to Grady with a swollen foot. X-rays are taken - it is determined that no bones are broken; given an appointment for two months later. Two months later - patient had an infection that had spread.

Another patient with Medicaid: According to statistics, patient is too young for colon screening. When patient becomes 42, colonoscopy performed, cancer found. This is happening under our current health care system - and is one reason why the AMA is supporting health care reform.

make a point? In the first case, the person with a swollen foot who ends up with an appt for two months later and ends up with an infection that spread. Why would that person let an infection spread for two months before trying to get back in to see a dr? You would certainly know an infection had set in or something was wrong.

Second scenario: Are you saying under new plan that age would be changed for screening? What age would be set? People of all ages end up with colon cancer? Should it be 20? 30? Please tell me what changes are being proposed in these areas?

I know several people on Medicaid and believe me they get better medical care than I do with Medicare (which by the way is paid for by deductions from SS) and my supplemental insurance which I pay out of pocket.

Not scenarios - actual cases. You have been fortunate to have transportation, a feeling of empowerment that allows you to confront the system, etc. Many social workers intercede for those who don't have these skills so that they can be served fairly. I was not in the SS system - so maybe your Medicare is different from mine. I have had great service. My former employer pays my supplemental insurance - the advantage of belonging to a large pool of employees. I pay Medicare quarterly. (Part B) The persons that I see at clinics and city hospitals who evidently have Medicaid DO NOT GET THE SAME TREATMENT as those who have insurance from Blue Cross, Kaiser, Anthem, etc. (Actually, very few persons with that kind of coverage visit clinics or 'Grady' type facilities.)

Colon cancer. Check with your physician - most advise that screening begin at 40. A lot depends on the medical history of the patient and the medical history of the family. Polyps develop without any 'signs'. Undetected, these growths can become cancerous. Most doctors remove them. If you are interested in what is in the bill, read it. . .or ask your doctor.

person had transportation for the first visit----I'll give you another scenario--a friend with a very good bank account and excellent insurance went to the doctor with back pains---after all kinds of tests--gallbladder, took out gallbladder--pain continued--ran all kinds of tests, made different diagnoses--three months later this friend was dead from pancreatic cancer. Sometimes it happens---matters not if you have Medicare, Medicaid, good private insurance and the big bucks.

That's another chilling story. Transportation was available for the first visit - and the person received an appointment - for later. What is your point? Doctors are not infallible - another reason for instituting preventative measures for health care. I have had two friends who were victims of pancreatic cancer. . .and they had the best of health care. Doctors are not divine. . but most are healers if the patient gets to them in time.

If the patient with the swollen foot developed an infection later it was up to that person to pursue treatment. If I saw infection setting in I would call and try to get my appt changed if that was not possible and I saw the situation getting worse I would go to the nearest hospital--and yes, they do, by law have to treat you. I do not advocate anyone, with or without insurance, running to the emergency room with each ache or pain but if it looked like I might end up losing my foot I definitely would go. As to the young person who ended up with colon cancer--my point was that if tests did not show the cancer what was the doctor supposed to do? My friend who died from pancreatic cancer did not die from not having a speedy appt. and your friend with the colon cancer might have had the same results regardless of insurance or where he/she got their care. Drs. aren't infallable and they are not God, but don't blame what happened to those two people on not having the type of medical care that is now being touted as the be all. And, then too, if you wanted to take that path---they would be receiving that "kind" of care under the proposed system since they were already under Medicaid--which will get worse not better. The economy is bad now and times are hard but too many people for too many years have left it up to someone to do everything for them and this is going to be the ruination of our nation. We, as a nation, got where we were by working hard, striving and saving for what we want. Now it seems everybody wants it right now. There are too many people who think they need a hand-out when they drive a newer model car, have all TV channels, wear expensive clothes, eat out all the time. No, these are not stereotypes but the actuality of the situation. When we grew up it was not unusual to have four children in one bedroom and we survived--now every child has to have their own bedroom--with all the trimmings, their own W11, TV, etc. We have to get back to the priorities we had in the past--and buy what you can really afford and not expect the government to bail you out when you overspend. I know you are going to mention unemployment, etc. Yes that is a problem now but the greater problem has been brewing for some time and we as a nation have ignored it. We have had a 'gimme' government for too long and we are in to our second generation of people too used to having their hands out than using those same hands to achieve what the want--and it has become that what someone wants is what someone needs--not the opposite. What is going to happen when our middle class disappears under the burden being imposed on them? And, I am a long, long, way from being wealthy but I think it is wrong, wrong, wrong to think you should take what the rich have earned and give it to someone. I would not walk into your home and say "Well, you have three TV's and you only need one so I am going to take the other two and give them to two other people." We need to clean up all the things that are wrong with our government and cut out all the graft, lobbying and greed on that level before digging even deeper in the pockets of our everyday citizens.

What the dickens does kids having their own bedroom have to do with health treatment?
Health Insurance cost about $17,000 per year now for a family. If your employer doesn't pay it or most of it, most can not afford that at all.

No way having a junker instead of a car to get to work would that pay for a health insurance policy.

My car is seven years old. Most of those you speak of also have 6-12 year old cars. Or the car companies conned them into 60 months with a balloon at the end!

You speak as a snoot!

goes off into tangents that have nothing to do with the subject. Maybe that is why you do not see the relevancy between having to have everything and being able to pay for the things you need. If the car company conned someone into a new car at 60 months that was their fault for not using common sense. If you do not have sense enough to know that not having all the 'extras" and using that money toward the necessities makes good sense then you are even denser than I thought. My car is 15 years old and I will keep driving it. I used good judgement when I bought it and it has served me well. It is not the prettiest or flashiest--and yes, I would love a new car--but common sense tells me that is not in my best interest. I raised four children with very, very little help and worked two and three jobs when necessary and never, never put my hand out for the government or anyone else to supply my needs--notice I said needs not wants. I have been there, I know how it is--I know how to struggle and I also know the sense of pride of knowing that I did it. I have also instilled this in my children and they live their lives this way. Today, as never before in our country, there are avenues opened to everyone. Free day care for working mothers, free meals at schools, early and late day care at schools for working mothers. Affordable college, technical schools. If someone decides to drop out of school, unless it was complete necessity, then they are at fault--and they can always choose to go back. Yes, these are bad times now but if people had not been so greedy many of them would not be in the situation they are in now. Tell me how making someone pay a fine if they do not have insurance is going to help that person? Everything connected with our government is a boondoggle and adding another boondoggle with health care will only make the situation worse and our debt greater. Put all your heads together and try to come up with at least one worthwhile thought.

You are a fortunate citizen with knowledge, education, and resources. You are also a dreamer - (and that's not bad) - to desire to clean up all the things that are wrong with our government and cut out all of the graft, lobbying and greed. In the meantime, I'm sure that you as a responsible individual would not pass someone on the street who is not as fortunate as you - and not offer to assist where it was possible for you to assist. I've mentioned in previous posts that as long as we were not threatened by the spend, spend practice that went on (and we were earning 15-20% interest) we did not take the responsible action to stop the practice. We're suffering the consequences - and it is our responsibility to look at where we went wrong, make corrections, and move on. What you fear is what the communist party in China and Cuba tried to enforce. China has implemented change, Cuba is on the way. We are nowhere near becoming Communist or Socialist. . and we can thank the American spirit for that. It is not the American way to ignore mistakes and keep making them over and over again. What you appear to be applauding is the failures of years of spend and greed and corruption. (I know that is not true - but have other things to do then to correct that statement) Enjoy the beautiful weather! I am!

I don't know Mytmite, but I'm guessing "fortune" had nothing to do with whatever success has been enjoyed. My guess is that it involved hard work, dedication and smart decisions. I think "fortunate" and "less fortunate" get misused a lot--primarily as a false indicator of a person's station in life.

and greed and corruption you are so misreading me. If you think we have not have years of spend and greed and corruption, you definitely have your head in the sand or somewhere else. What do you think got this country in this situation if it was not greed, spend and corruption? And I am not blaming it on Democrats or Republicans , as each party that has been in power has done their share to bring this down on our heads--and so much of the country was willing to go along--not looking to what was ahead---buy a house you know you cannot afford--but hey, I don't have to fill out an application, so what if it has a balloon mortgage, I'll worry about that tomorrow--buy all the goodies--I have 60 months or more to pay--- and on and on. And now what do you think will happen to all these people who have gone out and bought houses they cannot afford now--but gee, how can I pass it up--after all I'm getting an $8,000 tax break ( or check in the mail as some I know have received). Where is the accountability? That is what is so heart-breaking--we have become a nation with no accountability and it will be our downfall. And, don't think we cannot fail. Other great nations have fallen and it can happen to us and we are definitely on that slippery slope right now. I pray not but it does not look good.

What you appear to be applauding is the failures of years of spend and greed and corruption. (I know that is not true - but have other things to do then to correct that statement) Enjoy the beautiful weather! I am!

Hope you enjoy the rest of this beautiful day!! No argument is worth not enjoying the peace and quiet of this marvelous day. Most people have been responsible - but got caught up in the greed and lack of responsibility of others (Enron, and such). It won't be easy - but we will recover. Just hope that once we recover, we will have learned our lesson and not repeat the mistakes that got us here in the first place. I hope you're not planning to 'watch' us fail. You seem to have the right strategies for not allowing this to happen. You're not alone.

A patient walked in was given medical treatment determined that everything was fine. Just like every other patient.. and some how the doctors were supposed to divine an undiagnosed infection??? In your story did the patient have a fever, was blood drawn, did the patient complain of dizziness, nausea, or other symptoms that would indicate an infection.. If not then how are they supposed to treat an unknown?
Are all patients to now be given CBC, Chem7 and blood gas to pre-treat?

You rant about expensive Healthcare well try that one for a while..

In your 2nd story, what would you suggest colon screenings at age 6?
Did the patient exhibit signs of colon cancer? Bloody stools, bowel irritation etc.. and BTW.. DM Medicaid is a Government run Healthcare system.. SO your own "story" proves the Government cannot run a Healthcare system.. End of story..

DM you are not much better the SF.. Your'e trying to give us facts that don't add up..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

I don't know if I would call Medicaid a "Healthcare System"--to me it's more of a loan program, using a blend of State & Fed dollars, to pay for healthcare that the recipient can't pay for. I say a loan program because the state will file a claim against the estate upon death of the recipient for reimbursement of all funds expended. I know because I experienced it. In 2007, after 6 yrs of 24x7 Caregiver support at home for my Mom, I was forced to go through the Medicaid drill due because of nonavailability of funds. Medicaid was approved and she entered a nursing home in May 07. While there, she lost two sets of dentures, contracted pneumonia and died in Jul 08 at the age of 94. The state of NC wants $43,000 repayment from her estate. Not there--dammit, that's why she was on medicaid! But they'll get what there is (a house and the land it sits on) and I'm ok with that.

That is a chilling story. I have provided care for my mom - and hope I never have to turn to Medicaid. There is something terribly wrong with this practice. . .and in this economy, I can see the possibility of this happening with many families who are blessed with the longevity of their parent. Is this a state practice or do all states have this power to get 'funds' back? God bless you for caring for your mom.

Before responding - do some more research. What are the 'signs' of colon cancer? (Look it up) How do you know that you may have polyps? You are so against 'government' that you don't want to accept the fact that we are in this situation because we as citizens did not own up to our responsibility to make sure that we the people monitored what was going on with the people that we elected to represent us. . . .and they have responded to special interests rather than we the people. . . for many, many years. Thanks to your contribution, more people are now doing their own research and realizing that some of your arguments just don't make sense. The goal is better health care for Americans. We should be number 1 in health care. Obstructionists like you are coming to the forefront - and it makes others look deeper into trying to find solutions to some very complex problems. Instead of trying to belittle my concerns and observations, why don't you present facts that you have researched as the basis of your opinions? You obviously have had great experience in putting a spin on other's observations rather than contributing thoughts of your own. This isn't a debate Lindsey. Some people are sharing concerns and observations in a discussion. Share your research - we can all learn from FACTS. Stop reacting - start contributing.

"You are so against 'government' that you don't want to accept the fact that we are in this situation because we as citizens did not own up to our responsibility to make sure that we the people monitored what was going on with the people that we elected to represent us. . . .and they have responded to special interests rather than we the people. . . for many, many years."

DM, I appreciate your enthusiasm for Obama and his agenda. I don't share it in the least, but I appreciate it. When you make statements like this, your enthusiasm overloads your logic. This "reform" is NOT going to do ANYTHING to correct that issue. They are still responding to special interests and not the people. Especially the senior congressmen (and women) who know they will not get booted by their constituents. Everybody thinks everybody else's Senators and Representatives are corrupt and have been in too long, but not theirs. Why else would these losers who have been there for decades keep getting re-elected?

The only answer to your dream is term limits and that will never happen. You can write all the letters and emails you desire and even call their office. You are no real threat to them and they know that. So, they sit on their fat a$$e$ doing what they have to do to get re-elected. It ain't the people's business that concerns them. It is power and money, period.

. . you're right, because we either continue to vote them in - or we don't vote. My 'dream' is affordable health care - and it hasn't happened yet. We're closer now than we've ever been - but the 'hate Obama' crowd is determined not to let anything he does succeed. (There are some sections in the proposed bills that both sides agree to - I don't see why we can't pass those parts of the reform and move on!) The world leaders have acknowledged that Obama has been the motivator for world leaders to talk to each other again (precursor to peace)- but the Obama haters in our own country 'appreciate' the support of the citizens who support the President of the US - but because he is not a 'conservative' leader, they have branded him a socialist. I respect your views - but of course disagree with what appears to be 'let's not try anything new until we get a leader who agrees with everything we stand for - even though it hasn't 'worked'. By the way - I enjoy/respect civil disagreement - thanks.

You confuse hating Obama's policies with hating him. I don't hate the guy. I do think he is in over his head and it shows. You guys opposed everything Bush tried to do and didn't label yourselves obstructionists. Why are we now obstructionists and you weren't? What we don't want to see him succeed at is this version of the "reform". I could not have stated it any better than NUK_1 did in his two recent posts to you. I have tried to express the same sentiments here repeatedly. Nobody in this country would oppose real health care reform that would deliver affordable health care. The drive to make it another entitlement program with government controlling people and their health care is the issue. It is disingenuous to say my view is "'let's not try anything new until we get a leader who agrees with everything we stand for - even though it hasn't 'worked'". We are all for healthcare reform. Just not with all the power grabbing, vote grabbing, entitlement creating add-ons your side has delivered.

If three people on ‘different sides’ can agree on the bottom line - 'needing affordable health care' - then 'labels of conservative/progressive' should not matter. Describing 'sides' in this discussion I feel is disingenuous - since our last administration had one of the lowest approval ratings in history. Progressives were not the only ones polled. Both 'sides' have used talking points, fear, untruths, etc. to get the public riled up! And now legislators are worried about the 2010 elections. Surely there are some points in the proposed bills that both 'sides' could agree are necessary - pass those portions - and continue to work on the more complex issues. The AMERICAN PEOPLE need help! The doctors see this reality; the retired citizens see this reality; the unemployed see this reality. SOME insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies see this reality. Our politicians are blind by the upcoming election – and the lobbyist who contribute to their campaigns. Sad.

(There are some sections in the proposed bills that both sides agree to - I don't see why we can't pass those parts of the reform and move on!)

WAY too much common sense there for politicians that suddenly now want both total victory and total defeat for their opponents. It's all or nothing and blame the other side if you're on the losing end.

I thought Obama was all about changing this type of political culture, but every action he has taken since taking office seems to be efforts to re-affirm it, not change it. Leaving hatchet men/women like Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to carry the water on health care reform while Obama tries to stay away from any controversy because he's politically as gutless as any other Prez pretty much guaranteed a "solution" that reinforced the "way things always have been." So did declaring some kind of goofy war on FOX News, being shown to be a complete liar on "we're going to post pending legislation online for all to read before......."

I never expected Obama to really change anything, but I thought he'd at least make an effort to convince the public he was. Nope. Just business as usual and the same partisan BS as usual, starting right in his own office and filtering on down to Congress.

My dream is affordable health care too. A friend just called who is going to a dentist in NY next week because he charges less than anyone around unless you go to Costa Rica! This person has dental insurance but can't pay her portion.

Obama is our President now and people trying to make sure he fails is hurting all of us.

I'm glad someone cared enough that health care reform has gotten this far, though by the time each party finishes trying to spite the other, there will be far less good in it than we should expect from our representatives.

It's nice to know that in some states, the public and MDs have found ways to leave out the insurance companies and come up with something gainful and workable for the patient and doctor.

And how nicely!

DM has her own little cheerleader.

or his alter ego.

But honestly, I couldn't quit laughing, she got him right between the eyes with the truth.

this isn't a debate.. A debate involves 2 or more people of relative intelligence each giving reasoned arguments supported by documented "facts".. You don't come close..

You brought up 2 scenarios neither making sense.. I responded to them and somehow I am wrong?

Again show me the erroneous facts.. Go ahead pull then up.. It's easy to spout talking points and deny any one else has a right to question those "points"..

I and I think most would agree.. have a point of View.. I defend that point of view vigorously.. but then again so do you..
To come across as MS.. I'm so unbiased is intellectually dishonest.
You do not present both sides equally and you know it.. Only when your assertions are attacked then all of a sudden you go victim status on us..

I reference every fact several times and most I pull directly from MSM sources if they actually report something. Otherwise I outsource just like you.. So don't think you are fooling anyone.. You’re not..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

what she said was..
"under our present health care system, patients have been known to wait two to three months to SEE a physician."

and without even checking out Grady, you slurred her remark into...

"..Let me get this straight..you walk in the ER say with a broken arm..are you saying they will wait for months to be treated?"

If you had the decency to look as I did, you would find out that Grady has ..CLINICS.. you know those things you make appointments at?
It looks like they have about 9 around. You ....assumed..the hospital.

You don't like to debate, as you like to put it, you like to belittle others. You remind me of a spoiled bratt that just screams louder, or that Octomom, that talked over her mother on TV. Because you can do it louder and more obnoxious, don't make it so.

without the Government to take care of you...

I know what DM said I asked her to clarify her remark.. and it is just as screwed up as the crap you spew..

btw.. Just how many people here agreed with you?

Go suck wind..

You are not worth the time to respond to anymore..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

You and many others are researching issues for accuracy - because bloggers like Lindsey think that they are helping their cause (political) by slanting and often stating falsities. Many here have acknowledged that health care reform is needed - they rightfully question the cost and process. That is what happens in a democracy. Hopefully we are on our way to creating a health care system that is more affordable for all Americans. Lindsey is seen for what he is - but he is motivating others to find out for themselves what is true and what is false.

thing I have said that is false?

Like I told SF I will be waiting..

BTW.. How many lies have I caught you in now? 2 I believe.. shall we go over them..?

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

The discussion is about health care - not about David's Mom and Lindsey.
I'm through.

You want to smear ok.. I get it. Like SF who is trying to insult me with some limp something or other and is now changing my name like some school age dunce.. you want to hit and run.

Just remember take a shot I will shoot back.. Good night..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Lindsey, I think you are paranoid! You might have inhaled too many chemicals.

Lindsey, I think you are paranoid! You might have inhaled too many chemicals.