You show your lack of ability to engage in a discussion without personal attacks. You have demonstrated very little to 'shoot' with.

that you said you wanted then backed out of..(Lie #1)Even created a blog just for that purpose.. Stated no personal attacks.. no one-liners. A real discussion.. and what did you do.. After saying you wanted it.. You said you were to busy and would have to wait.. But you sure burned it up here talking about Sonic booms all weekend..

You're not pure DM.. so stop trying to act the part.

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

You've tried to DOMINATE, INTIMIDATE, and insult anyone that dares have different thoughts than you. People are trying to share ideas, not debate and keep score. you don't want to debate either, you want to bully, and that is really all you are. A little bully on a blog.

I didn't know until tonight that Grady has clinics. I also didn't know until a few days ago that the AMA was trying to do something about the insurance companies for the same reasons as we are. The insurance industry is making it hard on the policy holders and hard on the care givers. It seems the AMA is proving they can give better care with out the obstuction in the middle.

The whole idea a long time ago was for the public to have insurance so they could take care of their sick families. It has morphed into something about insurance profits and ..their rights to profit.. and our rights and the MDs have taken a back seat.

Of course, only about 20% of doctors are members of the AMA and many critics cite the AMA itself as being one of the biggest reasons for the exorbitant rise in health care costs in the first place.

Libs rarely mention AMA(prior to their halfhearted endorsement last week) because among the many controversial positions AMA takes politically is being in favor of tort reform, something that Dems will never consider, even though the CBO is estimating a cut in costs of about 50mil if some tort reform is implemented.

It's not just the AMA that is supporting/advocating meaningful health care reform. Check these out.

ACP advocacy for health care reform

National Physicians support health care reform (Single payer)

OTHER ADVOCACY GROUPS

Countless polls also show that many Americans are ready for some reform in health care. Unfortunately, what the House passed, what the Senate is going to consider, and what Obama favors, is an all-encompassing all-things-all-people kludge that isn't what most envisioned when they said they would like health care reformed.

Why the most basic, most agreed upon issues in health care became merely an afterthought in all of this is surprising. I guess the Dems figured it was now or never with control of the WH and the House/Senate to put into place yet another massive expansion of governmental control, unfunded mandates, behavioral modifications, the usual class envy, etc.

What would have been wrong with some simple common-sense reforms that addressed these issues:

Pre-existing condition coverage. Everyone is in favor of straightening this nightmare out.

Buy any insurance plan, anywhere. Get the government OUT of health care at the state level. There is tremendous waste in forcing insurance companies to setup state-by-state operations and plans for only that individual state and it also screws consumers over royally.

Expand HSA's.
Tort reform.

The Repubs to their credit submitted a lot of amendments that made sense but all were outright rejected with zero consideration by the overbearing Dems who want big gov in charge of everything and at all times, even to the extent of putting you in jail, unless you are here illegally and then that's OK.

When the entire discussion starts with a huge lie like "this will save money and cost no one any money," it's not surprising that at the end you get a ridiculous piece of legislation that most politicians pray to God doesn't actually pass.

You and I should sit down and write an UNDERSTANDABLE bill that would provide affordable health care for all Americans. We would need an honest assessment of the budget; a report of the actual waste that exists in Medicaid and Medicare - and see if correcting this lack of oversight will knock a large amount off of the cost of the plan we approve. At my age, I can't say get rid of Medicare!! I didn't cost anyone anything regarding health until I passed the 65 mark. . . and the costs are unbelievable for a visit/overnight stay/ lab work/ etc., etc., etc. I have followed the Republicans Health care amendment suggestions for some time as a google alert - and many of them ARE incorporated in the bill. . .and yet the Republican representatives voted against them. I understand the concern about tort reform; and other concerns of those who are labeled conservative. I can't ignore the Budget analysis presented to the Congress. Is it truthful? I don't know. It is considered 'bipartisan'.

I don't know your age. I assume you have been fortunate in life to never need Medicaid. . but I will fight tooth and nail to keep Medicare for those of us who live beyond 65 - on fixed incomes. 20/20 or 60 minutes shared with the country the horrible mismanagement and corruption regarding these two government programs. As a taxpayer - I would prefer to have my money spent on oversight of these programs - so that millions/billions is not fraudulently wasted . . and NOT get them out of the healthcare business. Medicare has serviced me for 5 years. I have great health - but the one time I had to go to a hospital could have set me back plenty - especially in this economy. I have an excellent insurance plan – which will be more expensive next year – but I will not change to a public option.

Certainly our ‘leaders’ can pass legislation that will improve/reform our healthcare in this country. If not – maybe you and I can give it a try? ☺

A very reasoned and thought out response..
I sometimes bring out the worst in people.. bad habit of mine.. However, here you are correct. Now don't fall out I not the ogre you might think I am.. I do tend to poke at you Liberals for fun.. Another Bad Habit.. Sorry.

I also am all for reform.. One of my personal pet peeves is Cobra.. If you lose your job at no fault of your own.. then I think that person should receive some assistance if needed for Cobra.. How in the heck can someone out of work pay the $600-$800 dollars a month.. You're not working!!! If however you lose your job for cause.. Drinking, theft, drugs etc.. Well sucks to be you.

The public option is a monstrosity. It is nothing but a power grab.. There will be no competition in a public option scenario. One cannot compete with someone that does not need to make a profit.

Lastly I want true competition.. I have contacted my Senator, Congressman and Representative asking them to explain why we cannot shop our medical coverage across state lines.. To date all I have received are form letters stating they are against the Public Option and are "considering" other plans...???

Personally.. I want to trade them all in.. in 2010

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

If we, on this blog, can find common ground towards a goal - and still realize/respect that we have differences - what is wrong with those guys and gals called 'leaders' in Congress? We have all found that our letters, etc. don't have more weight than the 1000+ lobbyists that have been filling the halls of Congress lately. I'm sure we could find 3-5 areas that we agree upon, find funding for implementation and get this reform thing going! Maybe we should scare the beejeebes out of both political parties, demand that get together on those few issues where agreement exists, pass those implementation items that are agreed upon and get this reform thing going! I realize that there are 'hot issue items' that will take a lot of work. But that is what Congress gets paid to do!! Right?

Abortion: I believe in choice - but I support no federal/taxpayer money be used for the procedure.

Public Option: What is that? I want those who can't afford what is offered now - an ability to afford basic care and screening. I'm not sure that small businesses would have to offer only public option. I'll do some more research for clarification. Any references?

Pre-Condition: I am for the elimination of this! I received information that Republications wanted to maintain this clause. Yet from what I've read - this is not true. Does anyone here know?

Are there hot issue items that you have that I have not mentioned?

The biggest concern I had was financing. According to the latest reports - stopping and monitoring/improving the fraudulent billing process in Medicaid and Medicare will garner quite a bit of money towards funding reform. I think we're all aware that most citizens get their health insurance through their employment. We are in a crisis here with the high unemployment rate. You mentioned COBRA. That is truly a catch 22 situation. Anyway - it's nice to know that it is true that most Americans want some type of reform.

I find myself in agreement again.. Dang before long I will be agreeing with Bonkers... All right I went too far right there.. my bad..

DM again nothing I can add.. I actually 100% agree.. I know shocking isn't it?

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Let's enjoy the moment - probably won't last for long. LOL!!

closer then you think...

Feels sorta good doesn't?

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Yeah - actually I think if people would just leave the labels at the door and talk issues - some of this stuff would fall into place. Oh well - I just dropped a load on Mudcat. Couldn't help it.

.

.

It has also been on television. Holder has arrested and is prosecuting those who have overcharged Medicare illegally.

CLICK HERE

is a start.. but this was a local area arrest.. 20 people when there are tens of thousands involved.. A long way to go.. At this rate 20 -30 years and they will get it done..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Do your own research. You didn't even know that these arrests had been made. Local area arrest? Do some research regarding the Florida area.

What is Holdren doing? What procedures has been put into place.. Come on defend your facts?

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

This is your response that "proves" socialized Medicene is better then what we have already... Well read on..

From your article.. in response to mine..

"Delays in specialized service

Delays also extend to more specialized services, an issue that became personal for Dr. Ballermann when her then 82-year-old father faced a three-year wait for hip replacement surgery. Knowing that the lag time could lead to severe neuromuscular de-generation that would impede her father's recovery, Dr. Ballermann considered taking her father out of the country where she could pay for faster service. She eventually found a way within the Canadian system to get her father his surgery within six months, but she can understand why small factions of practitioners and patients throughout Canada have lobbied for the right to provide and obtain private health care, even though such actions go against the spirit of the Canada Health Act."

A few MAJOR points.. Under the Canadian system

82 YOA having to wait for 3 years for Hip Surgery

Then after some wheeling and dealing finally got the wait down to 6 months What about the "others" who have no political connections to help out their parents?

At the University of Alberta, Dr. Ballermann and her colleagues have established a triage system. Patients requiring urgent care might be seen that same day or within a week,

a person with a non-urgent condition might wait up to two months for an appointment. “But you would never wait longer than three months. We have limits built in,” she said.

and this she said so proudly.."But you would never wait longer than three months. We have limits built in,” she said.
I just wanted to repeat that little gem...

Another problem with the Canadian system, she said, is that it stifles innovation and removes “some of the incentives to do better.” Compared with Canada, the U. S. provides more opportunity to conduct innovative research, supported by both government and industry. “There's a greater innovative spirit. It's just part of the U.S. culture.”

Wow I feel better about Government run Healthcare already..

A few small facts for ya...

"Average ER Waiting Time Nears 1 Hour: US Hospitals

The average time that hospital emergency rooms patients wait to see a doctor has grown from about 38 minutes to almost an hour over the past decade, according to new federal statistics released yesterday."

ER wait times in Ottawa, Canada’s capital district:

Got an urgent medical problem? If you visit an emergency room in western Quebec’s Outaouais region, prepare to wait an average of 20 hours and 42 minutes before being discharged or admitted to another ward in the hospital.

SF thanks again for making my point..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

I put the whole thing there so people can look at the pros and cons from someone's viewpoint that has been an MD in Canada and the US.

I'm not out there like you trying to give half truths to sway people.

Is that you really think anybody could potentially be swayed by these cut-and-paste jobs or someone else's viewpoint from another country. Why would we care what someone who doesn't live here thinks is good for us?

This is the most polarizing issue that this country has faced in years. Lines are drawn in the sand and have been for months. If you don't already have your opinion on this issue, you have been living under a rock or just don't care either way. You might affirm previous viewpoints or maybe even make them stronger, but you aren't changing any minds here.

My monetary future is not at stake here as others are. I put the pros and the cons...

I have stated that I feel health care reform would be a good thing, if done honestly. But there is too much money on the table. A lot of people who's big bucks are tied to the outcome have paid too many lobbyist.

If you are able to comprehend a simple request.. You said I slant/Twist News Articles and I fake websites.. Please provide evidence of those ASSumptions..

Or are your arguments so.. LIMP.. themselves they can not stand on their own veracity?

Oh and I love your attempt to insult.. shows what a class act you are.
But I guess you should be used to things being limp around you.. tootles Hugs and Kisses bless your peapicking heart...

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

"My monetary future is not at stake here as others are."

Please share with me how you don't pay taxes so I can get mines (if it's legal). Paying for these new entitlements is going to cost the rest of us in higher taxes and crippling deficits, and that surely affects my monetary future. Don't believe those liars claiming otherwise.

"I have stated that I feel health care reform would be a good thing, if done honestly."

Many of us have stated the same sentiment repeatedly. If they honestly wanted to "reform" health care by attacking the escalating costs, passing real tort reform and crafting common sense solutions to the ineffiencies that exist who wouldn't want that? The problem is they are after more governmental control and more voters beholden for entitlements, all under the cloak of pummeling those mean old insurance companies. You know, the one's making single digit profits. Now that's honest for you...

as some here who make their money in health care.

The government isn't going to control health care and you know it. Health care interest control too many politicians already.

When special interest get through screwing this into a hopless mess, if they don't have you hog tied and on a platter for the insurance companies, you may want to consider what I mentioned before that is catching on up North. People are cutting the insurance companies out completely and going strait to the Mds. They pay them a retainer of couple of thousand a year. If you look at your cost of the premiums that you share with your company. If you have a family, you have to be paying at least $500.00 a month, or $6000. a year. The company you work for is payig the bulk, say 1200 a month.

If you go to the MD, pay him a couple of thousand a year as a retainer, he is happy as a clam. He makes more than fooling with the insurance company. Your boss wouldn't be out the $14000. a year and could pay you more! It is catching on.

but, your credibility is. You might want to do a little research about your little Holy Grail, the "concierge" concept. Your facts are a little off here. You do realize that paying that extra money out of your pocket simply gives you more time and access to a doctor, and existing charges still apply, right? Despite what you claim, the doctors are NOT "cutting out" any insurance companies or Medicare, unless you pay the normal charges also out of your pocket. The concept is simple. You and several of his other well-to-do patients chip in a couple of thou a year to cover his losses for the patients he will no longer treat or get payment from. You are paying extra out of your pocket to have your own personal medical "Jeeves" available any time. Don't believe what I'm saying? Google "concierge healthcare" and prepare to be shocked. Tell you what, I'll just copy the disclaimer from one concierge "offerer" and you see what you think. Then you can Google and the research is there. Here ya go:

"DISCLAIMER: Emergency care, physician care (including licensed paramedical and other ancillary health care personnel), ambulatory and/or outpatient diagnostic treatment with primary emphasis directed toward primary care, and preventive health care services are not provided as part of your membership. All membership related physician services will relate to preventive screenings and the eligibility for such screenings will be based upon the recommendations of the American Medical Association (AMA). Electronic consultation fees are not included with membership.

* Office visits, home visits, emergency room visits, econsultations, physician travel costs/time, econsultations fees are not included with membership.
** All membership related physician services will relate to certain preventive screenings and the eligibility for such screenings will be based upon the recommendations of the American Medical Association (AMA)"

By the way, their name is EliteHealth. One would think that would offend your delicate sensibilities since you hate those "elite" executive types that these companies target. Peace out....

It is also called Retainer Medical,what you are refering to is one company, there are MANY.
The idea has been around over 10 years and is catching on. It started with mostly wealthy patients and has since spread. Annual fees range from $500 to $15,000. Some estimates that as many as 5,000 doctors and one million patients are involved.

Good and Bad

June 4, 2009 — Instead of waiting for Washington to solve the problem, general surgeon John Muney, MD, in New York City launched his own reform program last year.
He began offering unlimited primary and urgent care to patients at his 5 clinics for $79 per month, plus a $10 copay for acute-care visits.
It's an arrangement some Mds like, — a financial relationship with patients that bypasses insurers, their paperwork, and their profit margins.

However, Dr. Muney's plan was waxed by the New York state insurance department.

The reason? They said he was operating as an unlicensed insurer.
In some states, legislators have tried to exempt these practices from insurance regulations, but have met resistance from the health insurance industry.

Physicians have won in Washington state, where some employers are starting to provide employees with paid membership in these practices along with high-deductible health coverage for hospitalization and specialty care.

Level Playing Field
Physicians who charge a retainer fees are a minority. Most of these practitioners accept reimbursement from a patient's health insurer for office visits and procedures, and charge the retainer fee for services not covered by insurance, such as comprehensive annual physicals, 24/7 cell-phone access to the physician, and same-day appointments, said family physician Thomas LaGrelius, MD, in Torrance, California. He is board chairman of the Society for Innovative Medical Practice Design, which includes many conciergists.

In contrast, the monthly fee charged by some MDs cover most if not all the services they provide — office visits, minor procedures like wart removal, onsite tests, even X-rays — regardless of whether the patient is insured. Family physician Vic Wood, DO, in Wheeling, WV, throws in crutches and tetanus shots under his $83 monthly fee for an individual. No insurance company cuts a check. At the same time, such physicians stress that their fees do not cover a hospital stay, outside specialty care, or prescription drugs.

Physicians who guarantee primary and urgent care for a monthly fee are seen as competition by the insurance companies, especially when they offer "mini-medical" or limited-benefit plans themselves. "If a person is providing an insurance product, they should be licensed and follow the same rules as all insurance carriers," Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesperson for American's Health Insurance Plans.
.
Retainer Practices Seek "Legal Certainty"
The debate about retainer practices and insurance has reached state legislatures. The controversy over Dr. Muney led to a bill pending in the current session of the New York State Assembly that would essentially exempt retainer practices like his from insurance regulation.
Dr. Wood sought that same kind of law in West Virginia several years ago after the state insurance department threatened to prosecute him for operating as an unlicensed insurer. The legislation died, thanks in part to lobbying by the insurance industry, but Dr. Wood eventually got what he wanted when his practice was later included in a state pilot project testing the value of prepaid primary care for the uninsured.
Rep. Eric Koch of Indiana, introduced a bill this year to establish a similar pilot project in his state. The bill died in committee, but Koch said he hopes to reintroduce it in the next session. More physicians will consider the retainer model, he said, if they have "the legal certainty that they aren't offering an illegal insurance policy."
Legal certainty arrived for Dr. Bliss and other physicians charging all-encompassing retainer fees in Washington state in 1997, when lawmakers there exempted them from strict insurance regulations and substituted less onerous ones, such as the requirement to accept all patients, regardless of health status. And just this year, the state legislature broadened opportunities for retainer practices by allowing them to accept their fees directly from a patient's employer.

Before this law was enacted, employers who wanted to offer employees paid membership in a retainer practice had to funnel the fee to them through a health savings account (HSA) or health reimbursement arrangement (HRA), and let the employee pay the bill himself, says Chapin Henry, the membership development director at Qliance, the group practice of Dr. Bliss. Fourteen employers so far have gone this route with Qliance, said Mr. Henry, with most of them giving their employees high-deductible insurance coverage as well.
One Washington state employer intending to exploit the new law on direct payment is Tri-Tec Manufacturing, which makes naval piping equipment. Tri-Tec provides its 38 employees with traditional health insurance, but rising costs forced the company to raise the deductible from $200 to $1500 during the past 2 years to keep the premium affordable, said company technology director Rick Cordray. At the same time, Tri-Tec reimburses employees for 75% of their deductible expenses through an HRA. Mr. Cordray said the company plans to offer employees paid enrollment in Qliance this summer with the hope that the more they see Dr. Bliss and his colleagues, the less they will tap their HRA for other medical costs.

Qliance charges patients $49 to $129 per month, depending on their age and the level of care desired. Because Qliance eliminates the deductible and copays that sometimes discourage people from seeking medical care, employees won't have to decide if they're sick enough to see a physician, said Mr. Cordray. "We like the Qliance model — 'come in anytime, you've already paid.' "
That same open-door model also appeals to the 10% to 15% of Qliance patients who lack any sort of health coverage. "We can take care of 70% to 90% of their medical needs," said Dr. Bliss. For Dr. John Muney in New York City, all of the patients who pay him a monthly retainer fee are uninsured, many of them victims of the recent economic downturn. "My plan is the next best thing to sliced bread for them," said Dr. Muney, who unlike Bliss, accepts health-plan reimbursement for patients who have insurance.
Band-Aid or Building Block?
To Princeton University healthcare economist Uwe Reinhardt, retainer practices do not represent a long-term solution to the problem of the uninsured. "It's just a Band-Aid over a festering sore," said Mr. Reinhardt. "It might seduce people into a false sense of security. However, relative to a horrible insurance situation in America, it fills a need."
For his part, Dr. Bliss argues that retainer practices can be a key building block in a revamped healthcare system. Financing primary care and its steady stream of small charges through traditional health insurance, he said, not only wastes money in administrative costs, but forces physicians to earn a living in a grueling piecework manner, seeing patients every 12 minutes. However, insurance coverage is still needed for catastrophic, big-ticket medical problems. It'd be affordable for everyone, said Dr. Bliss, if primary care were removed from the insurance equation and financed instead through retainer practices. In the process, his field could thrive again, attracting more physicians.
Dr. Bliss said he's taking this message to lawmakers in Washington, DC, as they craft healthcare reform legislation.
"I love insurance," said Dr. Bliss. "I own plenty of it. But if we don't move away from our current system, we're going to bankrupt the country."

Didn't know doctors looking for way around the beast. Representative from Washington state proactive helping voters. Why haven't our representatives done same? Georgia always a late bloomer.

OK, now I get why you are touting this concept. Wart removal is covered. My bad.....

before it ever got started. I wish it could have helped the American people, instead of the special interest.

Show me just one artical that I "twisted" or used "fake sites" your words..
I will be waiting..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Do you remember saying..

"The following link spells it out for you...cost of health insurance...is breaking our backs. It is killing small bussiness, causing bankruptcy...etc.."

"I think we should look at what is good about Frances health care, and try to adopt some of that such as cutting out so much of the paper work/ computerizing/ streaming the program."

"There are 2 ways for insurance companies make money. Improve the health of those they insured... or try to exclude the sick from buying coverage. "

"45,000 die in the US each year, or on every 12 minutes because they don't have health insurance."

and finally this little gem..

"You really protest too much...and I don't give a SHIT!!! cause I ain't coming back..a few low IQ bullies have hogged this board till no one comes back...S Lindsey sits there telling everyone what a good debater he is and then insults everyone that says anything...if you go look at where he gets his 'facts' ...they aren't real...too many of you are sheep...and please line up for Lindsey to lead your stupid asses to the slaughter!"

I tried to find ONE GOOD thing you have said about our Healthcare.. Sorry could not find ONE.. so I guess you're just throwing out "facts".. with no spin.. Well I at least know where I stand on the issue..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Thanks Suggarfoot for the 'truth'!!

"The following link spells it out for you...cost of health insurance...is breaking our backs. It is killing small bussiness, causing bankruptcy...etc.."
"I think we should look at what is good about Frances health care, and try to adopt some of that such as cutting out so much of the paper work/ computerizing/ streaming the program."
"There are 2 ways for insurance companies make money. Improve the health of those they insured... or try to exclude the sick from buying coverage. ""45,000 die in the US each year, or on every 12 minutes because they don't have health insurance."

Thanks suggarfoot for telling it like it is.

Unkind as it may seem to say that, the U.S. has a lot of people who are mentally ill, or unbalanced. They are the kind who shoot soldiers in Fort Hood, Texas, and who scream they need to have guns to assuage their paranoia. They are the ones who oppose any kind of healthcare reform and scream the loudest about it.

The above article provided by suggarfoot quotes from reasonable and informed people. Why do our politicians seem to listen only to the more unbalanced elements of our society? Is it because the unbalanced also happen to scream the loudest? Most people don’t scream and carry on about issues like healthcare.

With healthcare reform, we could perhaps treat our mentally ill who don’t realize they need help.

Via Hartford Currant:

Some people have already cut the insurance companies out and they are doing much better.

" You receive a letter from your doctor thanking you for your loyalty. But, she says, you’ll need to pay $1,500 a year if you still want to be her patient.The arrangement, one that’s gaining popularity, is called concierge medicine. In return for an annual retainer, you get extra time and 24-hour phone access to your doctor, without an insurance company butting in. Concierge medicine is a way to cut out insurance companies and reduce workload, proponents say.snipTailored primary care cuts down on costly procedures, reduces caseloads and shrinks administrative overhead. In short, it cuts out the middle man and it seems to be one way of addressing our current health care crisis.Concierge medicine didn’t begin altruistically. It arose by offering luxury services at luxury fees. But now doctors say they’re fed up with insurance companies that favor quantity over quality and whose requirements end up undermining complex issues like unhealthy lifestyles and psycho-social problems.snipConcierge medicine is a growing trend in Connecticut. Washington, D.C.’s Government Accountability Office found no such doctors in Connecticut in 2005. Now there are “several dozen,” mostly in Fairfield County, according to the Connecticut State Medical Society. snip“I had a hard time with this right from the get-go,” says Dr. Michael Bergman of Hamden. “It’s elitist.”Frustration drove Bergman to try anyway. He’s a supporter of Canada’s single-payer health care system. For him, getting out from underneath conventional insurance was in essence a vote of no-confidence for the American system. snipInstead of paying insurance providers for blanket coverage, cancer patients, say, could pay oncologists directly. Healthy people, meanwhile, could pay for routine check-ups out of pocket or simply go without. The result would be an increasingly stratified distribution of health care, Gade says, with the haves choosing preventive care and the have-nots taking their chances."

go to indeed.com and click on salaries and compare. Put in name of company and city Atlanta

Delta Airlines average salary $21,000.
School teacher $52,000.

Liberty Mutual $57,000
CIGNA $112,000
AETNA $ 64,000
United Health Care $ 86,000
Wellpoint $ 75,000

Getting an idea why your insurance is so high?

Anyone with a functioning IQ above a tennis ball knows that the "average salary" at Delta is NOT $21,000. Why post anything so obviously WRONG? Think people, think. Also notice when you are looking at an Employment website that lists only open positions and don't think that means "average salary" for an entire company. DUH!

Hey, it's sunny and 95 degrees in PTC right now.....I saw it on a website somewhere so it has to be correct!

the median Delta salary for ATL is $51,082. Guess those suckas living outside ATL are getting hosed. Don't tell 'em.

put in Atlanta, put in no job title, and put in salaries. That is where the figure came from. But it is interesting, I ran into a friend of mine in managment at the airport. I was on my way out of town to buy my kid a car. He stated that they aren't even hiring them for that! They are doing what they call ready reserve and calling kids out that can work a few hours a week. They get no insurance, no nothing, except a few passes thrown at them and then the seniorty is so low they can't get on a plane. Hey that is not me telling it. They find their little ID badges everywere. The just walk off. Can you blame them? It doesn't pay good nor look for the same type people as when it was thought of as a good job. But hey, look at Home Depot...same deal, use to be, now not at all the place.

It they get hired full time, it is $1700 plus some change a month.

The pilots make more, the General offices may more, but the people hired to take care of the public make nothing.

Same thing with the other salaries. Didn't ask for the highest...I quoted those later. Again indeed.com that does nothing but be a site for job applicants. They got it pretty right on with the teachers.

and find out the facts, if you want them.

PayScale Methodology
How PayScale calculates salary comparisons
Everyone is curious about how their pay compares to others with similar jobs and how the market values their skills. This is how PayScale collects millions of salary profiles from employees around the world, enabling us to produce statistically accurate, individualized salary reports on thousands of job titles.

The PayScale Salary Survey
The PayScale Salary Survey is an ONLINE SURVEY that ASKS questions about salary, experience and the workplace. Individuals searching online for salary comparison information complete the PayScale Salary Survey in order to get a free personalized PayScale Salary Report. This report anonymously compares individuals to other people with similar attributes such as job title, location, company size and education.

Individuals complete the PayScale Salary Survey in exchange for a free salary report that anonymously compares them to other people with similar jobs in the same location. There are no offers, payments, or other incentives made to encourage participation.

SO...I put in..

Job/Position/Title flight attendant

Years In Field/Career 0

Job Location ATL
Country: * USA

Potential Employer
Type of Employer: Delta Airlines

Employer's Product/Business: commercial aviation

Last Question
Your Education
For some jobs, education is one of the key forms of qualification.

Degree: Bachelor of Arts

Major:

Select the year you graduated: 2000

it came back and gave me an estimation based on INFO PEOPLE HAVE PUT IN AS THEIR SALARIES...LOOKING FOR OTHER JOBS..IN OTHER WORDS, A 20 YR EMPLOYEE WHO MAKES MORE...COULD HAVE BEEN ON THE SITE, THEIR SALARY WOULD BE HIGHER.

But, it came back with a RANGE..for a little over 10.00 an hour to 20.00 an hour..

if you care to apply with Delta...look for 1700 plus a month as a new hire, provided they have openings. On their job board they list only ready reserve.

..........Now...about Indeed.com.........

Another Salary Survey?
No. Indeed Salary Search isn't based on survey data and isn't limited to job titles:

•Market Rate Many salary tools that claim to be market-based use historic survey data. But is the past a true reflection of the current market rate? Indeed Salary Search shows you what current job openings are paying - which is what matters if you are in the job market. Traditional survey-based salary tools can be poor at tracking completely new kinds of job - Iraq Reconstruction Program Advisor, for example - whereas Indeed monitors the very latest jobs as they emerge.
•Keyword-based Typical salary tools are based on job titles alone, but Indeed Salary Search lets you search using any mix of skills, keywords or job titles to give you the median salary of all jobs matching your query. You don't have to choose a generic job title that may or may not match your skill set, which really helps when skills or qualifications are more important than titles. Indeed Salary Search also provides the median salaries of jobs with specific titles related to your search.
How do we do it?
Indeed Salary Search is based on an index of salary information extracted from over 50 million job postings from thousands of unique sources over the last 12 months. Many job descriptions don't contain salary information, but there are enough that do to produce statistically significant median salaries for millions of keyword, job title and location combinations - in fact, most job searches you are likely to think of. As new jobs are added each day, the Indeed Salary Search index is automatically updated with fresh salary data, so the salary results are as up-to-date as they could possibly be.

Don't come at me with anymore of your hoky BS.

You are the genius who made the claim here that the average salary for Delta employees is $21,000. It was lampooned like most every other statement you make here, because it is patently incorrect. Then you try to shift it to starting positions (if available) are paid $1700 monthly which comes out to $20,400. So, had you been smart enough to state that new-hire Delta employees average $21,000 you might have been correct. Airline employees tend to be higher paid than a lot of other industries and your $21,000 average salary comment was/is laughable.

"Don't come at me with anymore of your hoky BS."

Uhh, what are you going to do? Embarrass yourself further with cut and pastes that could be blown out of the water by a high school kid? Incorrectly interpret data you find and refuse to admit your error?

Any rebuttal on that concierge healthcare crap you posted here that was easily refuted? I didn't think so.

"if you care to apply with Delta...look for... 1700 plus ...a month as a new hire, provided they have openings. On their job board they list only ready reserve."

I didn't embaress myself...you did..that site you tried to palm off is hokey.

It's not. That's totally incorrect. You can continue to dig yourself even further into hole, but you'll still be wrong.

Indeed.com does not have the average salaries for any company on their website. It's a job board.

"Airline employees tend to be higher paid than a lot of other industries and your $21,000 average salary comment was/is laughable."

Would you care to back that up with something other than your imagination? 40 years ago, they were a good job. Today, other than a pilots, the pay is not good.

But this is off the subject isn't it?

The deal is health care reform. The idea was good, but there won't be any. There are just too many people getting the big bucks as middle men.

The average salary for a Delta employee is NOT 21K. That's total BS and no matter how you spin it or try to exclude pilots or anyone else, it's a complete lie. Indeed.com has NO IDEA what the average pay at Delta Air Lines is, nor do they claim to or try to represent that.

What entry-level pay for inexperienced employees is DOES NOT MATTER WHATSOEVER. When you say "average salary," that means the average of everyone making a salary, not just advertised open positions. If you think experienced ticket and gate agents, ramp rats, flight attendants, general office staff, management, etc. are making an average of 21K, you need a serious reality check.

"Would you care to back that up with something other than your imagination?"

Sure. How about the houses and cars owned by the huge percentage of airline employees who call Fayette county home? Or, the standard of living enjoyed by the airline employees in my own neighborhood. The number of people I know who work for Delta and have for years. Need I go on?

What's the matter SF? Would they not hire you into one of those starting jobs? Guess the system does work....

The Left is in a feeding frenzy. The AFL-CIO’s Transportation Trades Department demands that the Obama administration “fix” the airline industry. Unions ask - the Obama administration complies. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood holds a forum, closed to the public and closed to the media, to discuss the state of the industry and a business model that critics allege will “undermine safety.” The solution, of course, is the auto industry model. Seize the airlines and hand ownership over to their unions.

This administration is beholden and takes their marching ordres from trial lawyers and union chiefs.

LIBERALISM: The triumph of mindless, wishful thinking over logic, reason, and experience.

So that’s why the President appointed an ex pilot union official to head the Friendly Aviation Association. It’s become oh so clear.
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I don't get it! What would any union want with the airlines to run?

If we were to bail them out (after bankruptcy--making stock no good) and take newly issued stock as collateral, we would own them just as we do GM and Chrysler, and AIG, and banks.

Pilot unions is one big reason for their condition now. That and the idiot CEOs and boards who allowed them to do so.

Don't blame the government (us) for not allowing transportation to go to pot---we need it.

We will resell it someday and get the money back.
Would you want airlines regulated again?

Under those ticket prices, salary amounts and 2/3 empty fights is no problem.
However only fat corporate execs and rich dudes then can fly.

What is your answer? If you don't have one, forget it, will you?

"I don't get it!"

You don't need to waste your time typing that phrase any more. We're all very aware of that!

You keep blaming them old pilots and "birdman" is going to leap off his perch and land on you. Anyways, you can probably go back and look at what happen at the Spoils Conference as one possible solution. You do remember that don't you?
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I like the new picture!

It will not be long before I "wheel" out old Santa again.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

years ago...so I do know the salaries quite well. Being senior, my salary was a lot more. But I know what we paid the new hires then and now. I helped train some of them. I do know what I'm talking about and I still know quite a few in management still there.

Remember when you said: "40 years ago, they were a good job. Today, other than a pilots, the pay is not good."

Delta always paid close to or above the industry rates in order to keep unions out. They constantly polled other carriers to keep pay as high as possible. It has been a good job way more recently than 40 years ago and you would know those facts if you worked there. Your statement indicates either you lie about retiring from there or you are a disgruntled former employee who maybe was laid off rather than retiring? Better call those management contacts you claim and get your facts straight.

They haven't for many years. Cuts to benefits and salaries. If the body is warm they will hire. What Union? Eastern? They are gone.

"What Union? Eastern?"

Uhhh, you know....the unions that target airline employees (IAM, Teamsters, etc).

Seems like Eastern was an airline, not a union.

message.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

These OPiuM addicted bloggers are just trying to see what they can get for themselves off the back of Other People's Money. These people are going to believe whatever the heck they want regardless of the truth. Truth doesn't matter when you have a personal agenda you have your eyes set on and one that benefits you individually.

Just shut up and pay her way.

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

"Just shut up and pay her way."

Most likely already am.....

Not trying to steal your thunder. I guess I was working on another post when you did the one below here....

these kinds of fights are futile I know.. but I have always tilted at windmills..

These guys don't have a clue when their Freedoms are being removed from them one by one.. I guess it's that whole frog in a boiling pot thing. The silly thing is even if they did realize it.. They would gladly give up a little freedom for some security..

This administration is nudging us over the precipice to full blown Socialism.. and these Libs are the lemmings to the call..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

are like old cheese sort of smells..

Salaries in USD Average
Flight Attendant 3 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (13 in US)
$47,667

Engineer 3 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (3 in US)
$50,748

Flight Attendant - Hourly
3 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (13 in US)
$31.50/hr

General Manager 3 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (3 in US)
$96,333

Pilot 3 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (4 in US)
$105,667

Senior Analyst 2 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (2 in US)
$79,046

Manager, Marketing 2 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (3 in US)
$74,432

Director 2 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (2 in US)
$125,373

Specialist 2 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta (3 in US)
$61,815
Aviation Maintenance Technician 2 Delta Air Lines Salaries in Atlanta $66,515

Sort of blows that $21k right out of the water.. link

INDEED.COM INFO

delta jobs in Atlanta, GA distance: Exact location only within 5 miles within 10 miles within 15 miles within 25 miles within 50 miles within 100 miles Jobs 1 to 10 of 109

Salary Estimate
$50,000+ (92)
$70,000+ (80)
$90,000+ (32)
$120,000+ (24)
$180,000+ (21)

SF's source for the $21k...link

So SF you said indeed.com had an average salary for Delta at $21k.. However Indeed.com has the lowest salary level at $50k.. Just where did you get the info of $21k?
Or did you just "TWIST" the info to fit your argument?