Of course if all ids were like WHATS NEW, we would all be only interested in "outing" everyone. Outing for what? Disagreement? Did you read that gibberish he wrote about routers, etc.? Even if he guessed right, 99% would gloss over at the eyes reading it. What difference does it make, anyway. If you could pin down a name and address, the PTC cop who catches pornos would simply go to the house and arrest them. The only hope and way is to try the trial and error method and see if it goes through, then you would at least have a connection, but no name and address as he seems to want. He simply wants to threaten people, not thoughts.

You have no clue what is being talked about, no clue of what it means and no clue what you are saying.

Can you walk and talk at the same time, highgreen? I am beginning to doubt it.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Now I'm worried that this "community" consists only of me and one other guy who is using thirty different identities.

No, and me.

lifeinptc's thinking could have a rambling topic with 30 names actually be one poster only.

If that is fun, many of us who actually see some serious topics in PTC and Fayette will leave. In fact, I could and probably would start an new website to allow for serious conversation.

And lifeinptc says you can spot them all if you are here long enough. Well, that is nonsense. A bit too much overconfidence.

Hmmm. Muddle has been here 34 weeks. I have been here 35 weeks.

And this, for lifeinptc, may be the first forum they have ever been active on.

Well, lifeinptc, as one who has been on forums and been a webmaster for years, what mutliple registrations normal mean on most forums is to be banned.

Such antics make a forum a joke. You get where, say 15 posters, take a position on an issue, and they are suddenly challenged by 30 posters.

But the truth is they are challenged by one or two posters, who are trying to enhance their postion by lying on how many back them.

It is not fun, or enjoyable. It does not enhance people joining. It drives them away when they find out this is allowed and they will get mobbed by one person, pretending to 3, if they speak.

It makes every conversation suspect and in reality a false one in presentation.

Yep. Address the message. But part of the message is how many are backing the position.

Muddle and I, in example, have been accused of being to same person in an effort of reducing our effectiveness by saying we are only one, and thus lying.

And please, only religion, lifeinptc? You were not here when we went rounds over Brown versus Lodgsdon, in example.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Do you take serious any poster who has just entered the arena? I don't. I also see who sticks around before I give them much credibility.

Something to think about. It is not a secret that The Lion once had an alter ego dubbed Aggressive Progressive. I got spanked for doing it but in the end I did confess and pretty much outed myself. You may dispute that but that's not where I'm going here. Since that time on numerous occassions I have been accused of having more than one identity. I don't. Here's why. If a regular poster is to keep up and respond to the rapid pace of postings that fly through this forum then it would be virtually impossible for them to maintain that pace with more than one user name without us the regulators (and somewhat moderators) being able to spot them and out them. Use Janet as an expample. How many times has she been outed. I'm not worried about someone with a multiple posting. I think I'm on to one now and I hope to out him in the very near future. I hate saying that cause I don't want him to let down his guard.

Plus being challenged by 30 posters has hardly been the case. It is pretty much the regulars who post here and for the most part we can verify ourselves who they are by their unique styles of posting and such. I think your blowing this out of the water and making too much of an issue about the multiple posters. Let's continue to challenge folks when we think they're phonies and let's trust Cal and Company to maintain the balance that presently exists. If you crack down on this sight too much and take all the fun out of it then it will surely die. Serious issues are being discussed and debated here in a variety of ways. Some through an irreverent manner, some serious and some ridiculous. But that variety keeps this place alive. If you want to publicize your name then write a letter to the editor. Let's enjoy what we have here and live a little.

If they are a multiple they never last. They'll disappear. Kind of like the queer dude that fell in love with me in the end. (keep your comments to yourself please). He came in here for a week or so, tried to stir it up and he's gone. May or may not have been a double. But he's gone. It's our job to wear those clowns down. That's what Cal pays you, me and Mudcat to do. So let's earn our money. If Cal automates then we lose our jobs.

Gotta go. Cal wants me to keep my eye on that gay vampire guy.

Do you take serious any poster who has just entered the arena? I don't. I also see who sticks around before I give them much credibility.

You have to give posters the respect of being serious and honest until the prove otherwise. Otherwise why should they stay?

They are not here to prove credibility to you any more than you instantly prove your credibility to anyone simply by being here longer than they.

But if they prove themselves, non credible, that is the end of them for me. Then they have to earn the credibility back.

Something to think about. It is not a secret that The Lion once had an alter ego dubbed Aggressive Progressive. I got spanked for doing it but in the end I did confess and pretty much outed myself. You may dispute that but that's not where I'm going here.

I am not disputing that. Nor my role in getting you outed.

I was very disappointed you did that. But you earned your way back to credibility with me by how you handled it.

Of course, if that happened again... you would never have credibility with me again, ever.

Since that time on numerous occassions I have been accused of having more than one identity. I don't.

As have I and some others. And I sure have never been anyone but me.

Here's why. If a regular poster is to keep up and respond to the rapid pace of postings that fly through this forum then it would be virtually impossible for them to maintain that pace with more than one user name without us the regulators (and somewhat moderators) being able to spot them and out them.

I disagree.

A good fraud has a technique that would keep him invisible to you. A technigue, as a Web Master, I have found you only catch via Admin.

Now, I am not about to tell anyone that technique to give them ideas.

Use Janet as an expample. How many times has she been outed.

Sloppy and unskilled gets caught. But over confidence you always can figure it out gets you burned.

I'm not worried about someone with a multiple posting. I think I'm on to one now and I hope to out him in the very near future. I hate saying that cause I don't want him to let down his guard.

Which shows another negative of Admin not being on top of this issue. It creates people always suspicious of others and trying to out them.

Plus being challenged by 30 posters has hardly been the case.

When this happens it is usually a few main poster names with the rest being the 'Yes Men' choir.

Not saying that his here. But the principle has been.

It is pretty much the regulars who post here and for the most part we can verify ourselves who they are by their unique styles of posting and such. I think your blowing this out of the water and making too much of an issue about the multiple posters.

Sorry, but my years of experience verify I am not making too much of this. I have seen what it does over time.

Let's continue to challenge folks when we think they're phonies and let's trust Cal and Company to maintain the balance that presently exists. If you crack down on this sight too much and take all the fun out of it then it will surely die.

Absolutely wrong. This is one of the worst offenses on a forum. On the big forums, people regularly get caught by Admin and banned instantly. No warnings. Just found and gone.

They tolerate no 'balance.' The larger a forum gets the harder these people are to find and thus they become more destructive.

I respect you, Git Real, but I will go with my experience in this matter. I think it far outweighs your thinking here.

Serious issues are being discussed and debated here in a variety of ways. Some through an irreverent manner, some serious and some ridiculous. But that variety keeps this place alive. If you want to publicize your name then write a letter to the editor. Let's enjoy what we have here and live a little.

And none of those ways you listed require multiple memberships. Uniqueness of posters is what makes a forum have character and so on. That kind of abuse takes away uniqueness.

If they are a multiple they never last. They'll disappear.

Unfortunately not true unless caught, are afraid of being caught or seeing the wrongness of what they are doing.

Kind of like the queer dude that fell in love with me in the end. (keep your comments to yourself please).

Mumble, chuckle ooops!

He came in here for a week or so, tried to stir it up and he's gone. May or may not have been a double. But he's gone. It's our job to wear those clowns down. That's what Cal pays you, me and Mudcat to do. So let's earn our money. If Cal automates then we lose our jobs.

Well, it actually does not work that way. And it is a job better off not in the hands of posters.

Gotta go. Cal wants me to keep my eye on that gay vampire guy.

It is all yours. Have fun!

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Actually, your IP is generated on your Gateway connection, not from your computer. And your ISP assigns your Gateway, not you.

Now, as for masking and proxie servers, the scripting has mods that can be added that detect and block anyone trying that connection, if the Web Master wishes to add or activate the capability.

The only disadvantage is some honest members use such as privacy utilities. But the membership loss risk is minimal.

Which means your network only varies in the network address assigned between your machines, not your network and your ISP.

In example, my HSDSL and router combo still generates an IP in the same range.

Plus, contrary to what most think, the sessions cookie and revalidation scripting on my server does not register the full IP. Just enough to give continuity between validations.

You see, every time you switch a page, you revalidate on a forum script. So, if it read the full IP ever time, since your Gateway assignes a new IP, your login would be blown out every page shift.

The Gateway assigns a reptitive set of numbers with every IP change. They have to because they are part of the Gateway IP signature for operating on the Internet.

Bottom line is to be logged in and carry on connections with many web sites, your IP must repeat in large part with every refresh and revalidation. If it does not you are no longer logged in.

It is not expensive. It is standard in many scripts and free mod downloads on others.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

You are correct in what you said, but, only within sessions.

If I wish to I can force a session refresh and all previous data will be lost.

I can at that point, or anywhere within a current session, repopulate the address info. and there is no way to trace it. The session number is only followed by the server.

It really does help to know what your doing. I would doubt this is the sort of thing that Janet would do.

Right now my gateway address is 198.162.0.1, the same as if I were at home. Unfortunately, I'm about 800 miles from there.

The router is hiding the actual address.

Unless your using a “dedicated I.P.”, which I’m not and because I’m using a wireless router and I know how to mask my NIC address, which I’m not, there is no easy way to trace where I am never mind who I am.

Almost all wireless routers, home versions, use the I.P. of 198.162.0.1. Having that gets you nothing. I could be sitting at Starbucks and you still couldn’t find me.

Again, it is doable, I just don’t think it’s worth Cal’s time, effort and money to do it.

Let me just say the logging and tracking programs are not perfect, but I can pull up a user and see every IP they have ever sent from.

As you know, your ISP assigns you to a Gateway which has a pool of IP addresses they dynamically assign to a user.

The match programs are not designed to look for exact duplicates, as in static, they are designed to look for the static portion of the dynamic IP of a user.

So, while my IP varies in the last few digits, it always begins with 65. something.

That is enough for me to nail someone since if IP does not repeat to X amounts of number, you session gets blown out at refresh.

Also, the ISP limits the number of Gateways an account can access. With many ISPs, as you demonstrated, no matter where you login from, you get sent to your Gateway server.

My point being, unless someone spends a bunch of money to set up multiple accounts, modems and so on, there is enough information to find a clown playing games.

And if one tries to do this without spending the money, they will attract the attention of the ISP, who frowns mightily on people playing these kind of games.

After all, ones account with the ISP is dead static. And they will get you.

Plus, in this day and age, doing such will also attract the attention of such as ICANN, Internet network hardware people, governments and so on. Not a smart move.

Switching IPs will not change the fact an Admin can using tracking and reverse look ups on stored IPs to easily see they came from the same local, ISP and so on.

So, I absolutely agree one can make it difficult at an expense upon them. Or impossible at an even much greater expense.

But how many people are going to go that far just to have multiple user names on a forum? Only a nut case, I would think.

By the way. I had such a nut case once. But still caught them.

For those others reading and worrying about privacy violations, what I am talking about does not violate you privacy. It is all Internet location and numbers, no private names and such. That requires a bit more effort and is unneeded to do the job being talked about.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

There are mods that can be added to scripts, free of charge, from the script community, that block spoofing, proxies and run security checks in multiple ways to catch people doing nonsense.

My site is a theology and Christian discussion. That alone eliminates most the types that will do these things. And makes those who will do them stand out much more plainly and quickly.

It is harder on a site like this forum. There are more game players on them.

For the normal run of things, Cal can catch the majority with the Admin functions that come standard with the script. An can enhance them with a few added mods, at no charge.

So, it is worth it for Cal to do.

For sure, a forum needs to be open to all opinions. What we are talking about is proctection of that openness, not limiting it.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

The point is not to find out names and addresses - who cares? I don't and I do not believe this was the issue.

Yes argue the point, I would like to know if the argument is from the SAME person with several identities and changing personalities or NEW TALENT voicing there opinion ? Is that too much to expect?

Why would someone want to hide behind numerous identities ? HUH ? sounds a lttle fishy too me.

Cannot you read?

Admin uses the IP to screen out users posting under multiple names.

No regular member sees the.

The issues is clowns abusing posting by pretending to be multiple persons. Either stop them from doing it or allow the other posters to know which group of names are one person.

I don't want to know your real name, address or anything else like that. But I want to know if you are posting under more than one name, because that is just plain wrong to act as if mutliple people are supporting your agenda when it is only YOU.

No. Addresses cannot be changed 100 times a day. You don't have a clue what I am talking about, obviously. You don't know how script IP tracking works, obviously.

Are you ever going to get it straight what is said or learn some facts before opening your yap?

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

That is a tough one.

On my site, catching multiple names from one IP is a piece of cake to catch, and deal with.

But a user from multiple ISPs is a lot harder.

Sometimes you suspect someone and you trace both IPs. Sometimes it goes right back to the same computer. You got'em.

We even have had some using multiple ISPs from multiple computers. Those are extremely hard to catch. But they usually end up caught because people, whether they know it or not, use a repeated and common patern of words, phrases and sentence structure.

And they are never on at the same time their alter egos are on.

There is couple of other screw ups they make, without realizing it, that will show up in Admin. But I am not letting those out of the bag to alert them.

For sure, you are not going to get all of them.

But, for sure, as one on here already admited in the past, the fear of getting caught and getting a business IP address banned is pretty potent. As it bans everyone in that office, or maybe the whole building.

No perfect answer.

And I almost forgot one I do not like. And that is a registry system where you have to give your real name, address and such that admin can use to verify you are who you claim to be. But I hold that too envasive.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.