Looks like a movement may be afoot ....

I hope this works

The rest of us won't be in that line because we would have prepared for this.. A little Tea party sounds good to me..

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

And that all concerns are only Libertarian fantasies, I would be very interested in Sniffles explaining exactly how Obama’s stimulus spending is going to save everyone. Please read the recent blog, "How large is Obama’s $1.75 trillion stimulus" and tell everyone, how taxpayers will ever pay it off. We would really like to hear something more substantial than your short pooh pooh statements. I don’t want to lose everything I’ve got, so I’m looking forward to your analysis.

You want my analysis? Always glad to be of assistance! And unlike the Libertarians on this site, these words are my own, not some vapid cut-and-paste.

Ready then? Okay....There has been a great deal of hand-wringing, particularly of late, regarding deficit spending.

George W. Bush essentially committed the United States to a war in Iraq that in retrospect cost the American taxpayer trillions of dollars. Breaking with 200+ years of tradition, he opted to not finance his war via raising taxes, but by forcing the Federal government to accept higher levels of deficit spending.

Barack Obama inherited what appears to be a recession much larger than historical norms. He has opted to focus on the Keynesian "prime the pump" strategy to ameliorate the effect of this reception, by using targeted federal spending in an effort to restart the American economy. This has also had the result of forcing the Federal government to accept higher levels of deficit spending.

Now, anyone who stayed awake in Economics 101 taught at an accredited college was taught that deficits are bad in the long term. Why? Because in a perfect economic model, government deficits inhibit capital formation and raise interest rates.

Seen any high interest rates here in America, though?

You haven't, and most likely won't.

The simple reason? The underlying strength of the American economy. The American economy is a monolith.

If America was a third-world country, we'd be experiencing hyperinflation and food riots now. Indeed, that is what the less-educated Libertarians on this site are direly prophesizing right now.

For all their apocalyptic doom-and-gloom tirades, though, didja notice that the price of milk (for example) has been down about 15% this year? I have!

Third world countries finance their debt via printing more money, which ultimately destabilizes their fragile economies. The American economic powerhouse, however, has benefitted from historically low government borrowing. Recessions are an inevitable and unpleasant part of the business cycle, but as both Bush's AND Obama's economic advisors have told us, the underlying strength of the American economy is strong.

Simply put: The deficit does not drive the American economy, the American economy drives the deficit.

During economic expansion, people ask for less government services and increased tax revenues should cause the deficit to fall, as it did during the Clinton administration. The deficit did not shrink during Bush's 2003-2007 expansion due to a combination of profligate war spending and irresponsible tax policy.

Conversely, during economic contraction, revenues fall, people ask for more government assistance and the deficit swells.

Ultimately then, deficits are a staple of the American economy for the forseeable future. At current levels, they have minimal impact on the American economy, despite what the Libertarians and the newly (since Jan 21st) minted reborn fiscal conservatives would have you believe.

I want to stress that there IS a point at which deficit spending can and will adversely affect the American economy, it's not tenable as a long term strategy to spend as if there was no tomorrow. But we're not there yet, and I don't think we will ever reach that point, provided we have competent leadership in the Oval Office.

like Peter Schiff and his ilk, have called the meltdowns with 100% accuracy.

Keynesian economics is woefully outdated, and only applies in a truly free market, which does not exist. The Keynesian school doesn't take into account the Federal Reserve artificially suppresses interest rates, attempts to fix prices, prop up property values, and inflates the currency so fast no one can keep up with its decreasing value.

The next bubble to burst will be the commercial real estate market. Bob Chapman of the Trends Research Institute explains that this will send the stock market down to the 3500 range.

Happy investing!

In Liberty,

DarthDubious

It helps me understand why some people think as they do. Oh my goodness, where do I begin? I could literally write a book in response. I’ll try to summarize.

I agree that Bush was irresponsible with deficit spending but he continued a 40 year tradition of over spending that got us where we are today, a fiscal crisis.

In 1982 Pres. Reagan established the Grace Commission to research the history and effects of deficit spending. It was made up of 160 CEO’s from large profitable private businesses and included 2000 researchers of economist, historians, accountants and college economic professors to assemble data. After 4 years of US and International studies on deficits, inflation, deflation, depressions and monetary policy, their report was presented to Congress in 1985.

The report showed that in every case, where governments accumulated huge deficits without balancing the yearly budgets and paying down the deficits, (those nations experienced hyper-inflation), the collapse of their monetary unit and ruined economies. This was true whether a country was a world power or 3rd world nation.

The study included the Roman Empire, Spain at the height of its world power in the 1600’s, Germany’s Weimar Republic in the1920’s, France under Louis XIV in 1700’s and other smaller economies such as Hungary and Argentina as well as Banana Republics.

The report showed that the US had run balanced budgets with stable prices for 183 years from its inception in 1780 to 1963 running deficits only in time of war and paying them off as soon as possible.

This pay as you go and live within your means monetary policy was established by the 1st US Secretary of Treasury and Founding Father Alexander Hamilton after he stopped raging inflation brought on by deficit spending during the Revolutionary War.

But in the Johnson Administration starting in 1964, the report showed in 4 years the Democrat, liar Lyndon, accumulated a deficit of 45 billion by hiding his Vietnam War costs, welfare, medicare and other social programs with off-budget accounting. This infusion of spending created rising prices. Strapped with Johnson’s war costs and “Great Society” programs Pres. Nixon in 6 years only increased the deficit by 6 billion but had to take the US dollar off gold backing to borrow to pay Johnson’s ballooning costs. Now the spend crazy Congress had no gold restraints to hold them back. Poor Gerald Ford stumbled into a recession in 1973 created by Johnson’s automatic entitlement increases and stupidly tried like Obama to use Keynesian spending theory to get us out by adding $127 billion to the deficit in 2 years which created high inflation.

Jimmy Carter inherited both inflation and unemployment, and attacked the problems by increasing the deficit by 227 billion which was larger than the WWar II deficits. Interest rates rose to 21% and when Carter left office, 55% of the deficit was consumed by Johnson’s uncontrollable entitlement programs. When Reagan took office in 1981, the total deficit was 909 billion.

That’s when Reagan set up the Grace Commission whose 1985 report recommended balanced budgets and a return to pre-1964 monetary policy and an overhaul of the entitlement programs. But Congress drunk with unlimited spending increased the Reagan deficit by 1988 to $2.6 trillion, ignoring the Grace Report. After that everyone gave up and Reagan contributed to the problem by increasing defense spending to bankrupt the Soviet Union, but lowered taxes.

George Bush Sr. increased the deficit to 3.6 trillion and lied to the public with his now infamous “read my lips, no new taxes” pledge. In defense of Reagan he did try to alert Congress with the Grace Report and supported the 1986 Graham-Rudman Act which by law capped government spending, but the Congress increases the cap every year. Senator Rudman resigned from the Congress in disgust.

The 1985 Grace Report projected that the current increases in government spending would run the deficit in the 1st decade of the 21st Century to $13 trillion which would cause a monetary panic in the markets that would result in US bankruptcy. They were right on the money as Obama’s 1.75 trillion runs the deficit now to 12.55 trillion. Deficits have gone too far and everyone is justified in their concern. You can read about the Grace Report in a 1992 book written by Harry Figgie and Gerald Swanson, members of the Grace Commission entitled “Bankruptcy, The Coming Collapse of America” printed by Little Brown & Co. I’ll have to respond to your other analysis Sniffles in a future blog. Thank you for your honest opinions.

You say deficits are not a problem unless they inhibit capital formation and raise interest rates. I agree if you balance budgets and start paying down the deficit. But isn’t the need for capital formation the reason for this 1.75 trillion stimulus - to get capital that has dried up into the markets?

Its true that current interest rates are historically low. But that has been artificially induced by the Federal Reserve to get capital back in the market. In fact the Feds low interest rates caused the boom which caused the bust which has caused capital formation to dry up. The artificially low interest rates has contributed to lack of capital in banks. People have withdrawn their money because CD rates are lower than inflation. Real interest rate will rise the moment China & Japan get tired of buying those 1% Treasury Notes. With the US buying less and less of their exports, they will seek better return elsewhere. Failure of the US to finance their spending through the sale of treasuries will cause immediate bankruptcy.

In 1987 no one purchased a treasury bond offering, so interest rates were increased. It was quite a scare causing a big stock market decline and a recession to ensue. When Paul Volker was Fed Chairman during the late 70’s and early 80’s recession, he allowed interest rates to float with the market to 21%. This shook out the bad businesses and the recession ended shortly. This is the counter theory to Keynesians Economics.

Hyper-inflation can come to nations other than 3rd world as shown by the Grace Commission. The US is not exempt. Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods. Supply and Demand, the foundation of your Economics 101. As Obama’s stimulus, the largest infusion of money in the history of the world begins to circulate in the economy prices will rise. Currently some prices are falling as deflation adjusts for the housing bubble, but that will change shortly.

Historically low government borrowing? The Grace Commission report shows that borrowing went from almost nothing in the 1950’s, rising every year since to 12.5 trillion today. The American economy drives the deficit? I agree. Constant government borrowing is needed to pay for huge government programs. Taxes won’t cover it.

The US must sell its treasury bonds every week to deficit finance its programs. China & Japan buy 68% of those bonds. Now that their economy is hurting, Japan drastically curtailed buying US bonds. China’s premier Wen Jiaboa told the Obama administration last week that it cannot continue to finance US spending at current levels. China has a $2 trillion surplus as opposed to the US $12.5 trillion deficit. Wen said that he is worried about the safety of these bonds because China owns $727.4 billion of US bonds, which represents 36% of its surplus. The Chinese government plans to diversify its investments into natural resources and gold. The US has no surplus to invest; it is dependent on foreign nations to pay its bills.
Sniffles, if China stops buying the bonds, the jig is up for the US; it will have to default on its payments. European nations are in recession and they are also cutting US bond buying. The only other choice for the US is to do what you say 3rd world nations do – finance its debt by printing money. In fact Fed Chairman Bernanke told the Senate Finance Committee last week, he’s already making plans for that. The way that works Bernanke said is that the treasury will sell bonds to the Federal Reserve and the Fed will print money to buy them. That’s exactly what 3rd world countries do. I think Bush & Obama lied to you about the strength of the US economy. What do you think about all this Sniffles?

The Federal Reserve just announced it will buy $300 billion of US Treasury Notes. The death march is on for the US dollar as it immediately dropped $2.20 in value and gold shot up $51. All those “less educated” Libertarians have been proven right; hyper-inflation is on the way. The US is acting like a 3rd world nation, printing money by the billions. Soon the US will be printing trillion dollar bills, just like Zimbabwe. This is real serious. Never before in the history of the US has it monetized its debt. That’s truly a 3rd world last ditch effort. China in the span of 1 hour today just lost $19 billion in the value of its US Treasury Bonds. You think China will be excited to buy more? No, that’s why the Fed had to buy its own debt. If nobody will loan you any money, then you just borrow it from yourself and start printing dollars. What ya think about all this Sniffles? You still think America is an “Economic Power House”? It’s an Economic Outhouse! Don’t buy toilet paper. Save your dollars and put them in your bathroom.

Hyperinflation is typically defined as an inflation rate of 50% or higher per year. That simply is not going to happen.

It is impossible to make meaningful trend analysis on a one day drop in the value of the dollar. Random data points don't cut it either. Show me some historical data on US markets and we'll talk.

LIbErtarians are seldom, if ever, right, their claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

And yes, I still think America is an economic powerhouse.

NOT.. Shadow gives you a reasoned well researched argument and you give one-liners.. I thought you hated Republicans, Conservatives and Moderate Democrats.. I guess Libertarians just scares you too much..

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

I recognized that Sniffles was a typical shallow minded liberal, so I duped her into giving the sniffles economic analysis. Then overwhelmed her with a rebuttal of facts. As I expected the Sniff ignored everything and came back with a pooh pooh statement. My purpose was to show that liberals are not capable of reasoned thought. CNBC Financial News this morning has analysts arguing that the Federal Reserve is now printing money. CNBC is calling it financial fiasco. Anyone who thinks America has a strong economy should be committed to an insane asylum. This blog is for intelligent concerned people, liberals need not reply.

Tell me, Nostradumbass, when EXACTLY will "hyperinflation" (classical definition of the word, not tinfoil hat definition) hit America?

And will you have the courage to admit you were wrong when your prediction doesn't come to pass?

Your buddies in the Axis of Drivel (Garvin, Dubious and Li'l Snipey) lack the courage to admit when they are proven wrong by facts...are you aiming for membership in their tinfoil hat society? Hmm?

I have to ask .. WHEN DID I EVER PREDICT OBAMA WAS GOING TO LOSE..
Please dredge up those post for me.. Let me give you a hint.. I was not online here during the election.. so don't waste your effort..
Try using the TRUTH for a change.. Just because it fits into your narrow view to lump all dissenting voices as one.. does not mean all are as one..
SO next time you want to use me as one of your little whipping boys.. try using the one thing I know you are not well aquainted with.. TRUTH.. it will set you free.. oh and by the way.. any time you want to use facts instead of pithy sarcasim and attacks on the messenger give me a call.. I'll argue facts with you any day.. but please try not to give me your salon.com website drivel.. I have heard enough from the Islam fanatic apologist.. sites.
And since you are a dog fan.. ROLL TIDE.. wanna have another Black Out???

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

You'll "argue facts"?

Everyone knows about you and your "facts"

I find it amazing that you are incapable of taking a point as it was stated.. Instead you have to warp it to fit your ideological narrow minded views..
Take the Roman Empire tax debate.. I NEVER SAID IT FELL BECAUSE OF THE HIGH TAXES that was you bonehead.. You took a little comment I made and blew it out of proportion.. One of the other "cases" you state was the 60%/40% Earmark debate.. At the time that was what CNBC was reporting.. They of course was only pointing out the Republican votes as being 40% of the earmarks.. Lets see 40% from 100% = 60%.. BUT AS USUAL YOU DID NOT ARGUE THE POINT ABOUT THE EARMARKS.. YOU DEFLECTED IT TO THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE POINTS.. I HAVE TO ASK WHO CARES.. Many of these so called Case points are summerizations not meant to reflect any one particuler point, but an overall view on the discussion in general..
The rest of your so called case points.. if taken in CONTEXT with the entire debate proves many of my summerizations.. YOU ARE VERY GOOD AT SHIFTING THE ARGUMENT TO THE ARGUER NOT THE POINTS MADE It is called CONTEXT.. Taking the entire postings from a dozen or so posters then thoughtfully reply in CONTEXT to the discussion.. It is called Nuance..
I simply made a comment about empires The US being one.. and in the ENTIRE context of the blog YOU TAKE ONE LINE and make a career on it.. Many here know all about you and your propensity
to take out of context anyone in which you have a difference of opinion.
Addtionally Francis I said I WILL DEBATE FACTS WITH YOU not everyone.. So pull your head out from your RECTUM and lets meet.. I am not DD.. I will meet with you and we can discuss your particular warped views on the World in General.. Who knows maybe you can change my mind.. Lets find out... I will be in PTC almost everyday this week.. Lets go grab a cup of joe and talk about it.. Who knows each of us my learn something..Jeffc and I have the same taste in authors.. Who woulda figured.. I am easy to spot.. I have the ROLL TIDE window decal on my truck

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

Don't worry about the 'logical' thinking of some in this discussion. These are the 'guys or gals' who were sure that Obama would lose the election.

Do you really want to go there??
This coming from the lady that SWORE that Obama was soooo SMART as to let all the EARMARKS into the bill so he can VETO them
just to show how BRILLANT he was when he killed them all????

Well he signed it as is.. HATE TO SAY IT BUT TOLD YA SO
I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

Stay tuned. This time, state, and local government is being monitored closely - and if the project does not provide jobs, etc. - they are not getting the money! No bridges to nowhere this time. Bill is signed, but all municipalities have not received funds yet. (And smart Fayette County is receiving nothing.) I think the leadership here did not realize that 'trickle down economy' affects everyone. I'm appalled at the empty storefronts in the Pavilion - while the stores in Camp Creek shopping center seem to be doing well. All of their restaurants are 'waiting room' only. They even have a Red Lobster!

Only when one receives the money for the project are the 'earmarks' of any consequence. That money needed to get into the economy NOW! Check the 'dow'. DJI. The interesting thing about this administration is that they are not saying that everything they are suggesting is without risk, but they are saying if it's not working, they're ready to 'fix it' - and they are asking everyone to help with strategies and ideas. Now that some things appear to be working - SOME leaders are thinking about 'country' rather than 'party'. This is one time we really are all in this together - sink or swim. The man is brilliant - but I know this is hard for some to accept. I'm not brilliant - but neither are you.

How I miss those old cartoons. I always liked Frog Horn Leg Horn - I say, I say, son..... He sure gave that dog hell didn't he.

Cartoons today just aren't as funny as they used to be. Nothing funny about Dragon Tales, or Dora. The beauty of those old cartoons was that kids and grown ups could both enjoy them.

Is mildly retarded, with her long pause, after she asks if you see the blue book bag, then its off on some drug induced journey through the forest in search of a latino gentelmen named Juan. Kinda like a bad tripp, put that stuff down holmes.....PEACE

I can tell mysteryman doesn't have kids or Grand kids. The pause is there so the children watching at home/dvd/whatever, can answer the question. Who's drug induced? My 3 year old Grand child knows all the answers plus is learning Spanish as well. Dora is a great learning tool.. Maybe you should actually watch it sometime.

My point, is this the United States of Mexico... Vamanosss... Dora is teachin the children to be lazy and ask others to cater to her needs instead of showing initiative to do for herself, and as far as learnin spanish, how bout english for a change... And what bussiness do children have running around the jungle looking for a latino gentelman named Juan????? HMMMM i digress...BLESS P.S My kids are grown and were educatued by parents, not daytime television, you should try it sometime... Adios.....Chica...

My Man we share a border with Mexico. We have millions of legal and illegal Spanish speakers living in this country. I believe in the future our Grandchildren will need to speak Spanish. At least it won't hurt to know another language and since it is our second language anyway what better way to start the kids out with a learning tool like Dora the explorer. It sure beats watching some bird going beep beep as he falls off a cliff. What is the point of that?

Not too long ago I read that the majority white race in America will end in 100 years. In California now the white race is no longer in the majority. So yes, for our Grandchildren I think speaking Spanish will be a necessity in the future. Like it or Not.

If ya don't come out.... I'mmmmaaa commminnn in after ya!

HONK IF YOU ARE PAYING MY MORTGAGE

My favorite, I say my favorite new ones (well I say new but they are on boomarang) are Dexter's Lab, Cow and Chicken, Ren and Stimpy. I do love those old Saturday mornings with the Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner Show.

How about The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy on CN, that's pretty funny?

In Liberty,

DarthDubious

I always felt like Wile E. Coyote for some reason...

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

I'm looking for some old polls that the Citizen has done on this site. My daughter has a math project due on percentages and charts. She needs to collect data from newspapers for the charts. I don't get the paper, I read it online. I can't seem to find some of those old polls.

You'll soon see the truth, but by then it will be too late. All this article states is the truth that we cannot expect the "geniuses" that orchestrated this mess, to be able to get us out of it with the same old policies. Did you even read it?

BTW, I'm NOT a Libertarian. However, anything's better than continuation of the Republicrat/Demublican rhetoric!!!

In Liberty,

DarthDubious

a nose picking Donkey...

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

Let's not stoop to their level of insulting one another. They don't need any help from us to look like fools.

However, I do appreciate your zeal in coming to my defence. I know it is frustrating when people(on the supposed left/right) refuse to see the truth until it smacks them like a two-by-four between their jackephant eyes.

But that's the tried and true method of getting their attention, according to my grandaddy!

In Liberty,

DarthDubious

but it does look like Sniffles Avitar is picking its nose...

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

Don't it though?

In Liberty,

DarthDubious