I think the best summation I've read about Palin's performance on the news last night

That's one way to do it. Or, you could just decide yourself. Hmmm, that might be too difficult.

she was 'poorly prepared, but very well coached".

I'm sure Barry's 300 advisers are working night and day to coach him too. Even they have seen him let go of the rope and swim away from the teleprompter.

Perfect hair? check!

We'll be sure and check out Biden's latest crop of hair plugs when he is on. Wonder if he'll be able to group enough together to meet your standards for "perfect"?????

Yup, yup, as Sarah says, I'm looking forward to the VP debates.

I just hope Joe doesn't go easy on her because she's a girl.

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"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."

I just hope Joe doesn't go easy on her because she's a girl.

I just hope Joe doesn't forget and pop a little blue pill before the debates. He'll be so busy checking her out that it could get a little embarassing for him.

"You can't even lead a Democrat to the truth."

Oh, man.

THIS reminds me of my own desperation in my first job interview as I was completing graduate work. I had done a minor in S. Asian Studies with a concentration on Indian philosophies and religions. The college wanted someone who could teach Asian Philosophy--including both Indian and Chinese philosophy. All that I knew then about Chinese philosophy was the result of cramming for the interview. I'm sure I probably replied to questions with something like, "In what respect?"--looking very cool on the outside while something like mass hysteria was taking place on the inside. "In what respect?" is a great way of (a) stalling and (b) obtaining crucial information from your interrogator before answering.

But, in fairness both to me and to Palin, I should note that I did manage to pull it all together. I was hired and taught South Asian Philosophy for years.

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

I also thought it odd that she went here in response to the question.

Worldview? As in Weltanschung? As in Christian worldview?

Is it possible that the principal connotation of the word "doctrine" for her is religious--as in "the doctrine of the atonement" and "the doctrine of original sin"? So was she gearing up to talk theism vs. naturalism and creationism vs. Darwinian evolution?

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

Then what's the purpose of NATO?

I did listen to her. All I can say is that Mrs. Cy is sold.
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You would be in favor of allowing Georgia to join NATO even if it would lead to war with Russia? You agree with Palin on that?

Honestly, like many others, I don't wish for a war.

As for my feelings, the last time I checked, it doesn't matter how I feel. As you well know, there are 26 member nations in NATO. They determine who becomes a member. You probably have an inside advantage on information but, I don't recall any nation that was denied membership.

The Georgia thing is somewhat interesting due to the South Caucasus Pipeline which the rest of Europe is keeping a close eye on. There could be a strong desire from the Europeans to make them a part of NATO just for that reason.

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"MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that even if Georgia were on a firm path to NATO membership, he would not hesitate to attack it under circumstances similar to last month's conflict."

A "hockey-mom", just a heartbeat away from starting WWIII.

REUTERS
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"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."

I would do worse than Palin if Charlie quizzed me on such matters.

But your question to Cy prompts a further question from me: What should determine a nation's eligibility for joining NATO?

It sounds as though you are committed to a principle that runs along the following lines:

If country A wishes to join NATO, country B is aggressive towards country A, and country A's joining NATO would thus open the possibility of our hostile relations with B, then we should oppose A's inclusion in NATO.

Can this be right?

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

What would be the purpose of including Georgia in NATO except as a pretext of going to war with Russia? Is there any other reason?

Saakashvili was a fool to attack the Russian troops in South Ossetia and was probably horrified at the Russian response. Why on earth would tiny Georgia take on Russia? Probably because they had gotten, or thought they had gotten, some type of assurances from the US through Cheney’s office that we would back them. If they didn’t have such assurances then why take such a suicidal action? Did he think Georgia could take on Russia?

The back channel to Cheney’s office runs directly through Randy Scheunemann, John McCain's chief foreign policy adviser and his business partner who has been a bought and paid for lobbyist for Georgia to the tune of $800,000. Scheuenemann’s connections to the war mongering neocons goes way back to when he ran the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq and before when he helped found the Project for the New American Century. His advice to McCain is as unbiased as any other prostitute’s from Georgia would be.

Your logical analogy does not hold up in the face of RealPolitik nor does it describe the situation. Country A attacked country B’s troops and peacekeepers. Country B massively retaliated for several reasons and now holds a considerable part of country A. Should we oppose A's inclusion in NATO? At this point, absolutely. Suppose Georgia joins NATO tomorrow; are we obligating NATO and the US to start a war with Russia? Are we really going to go to war with Russia over South Ossetia?

The answer to that is NO. First of all, NATO cannot win a war on Russia’s border and everybody on both sides knows it. So how does it help us to prove that NATO is a paper tiger in the area? I think this is exactly what Putin wants. This isn’t just about Georgia. It’s about sending a strong and unmistakable signal to Poland and especially the Ukraine. Does anybody in the world besides neocons nuts seriously believe that if the Russians backs down NATO in Georgia that they will pull out of the Sevastopol, Ukraine port when their lease is up in 2017. They’ll never pull out. Yushchenko knows it. He’s seeing his chance to join NATO swirl down the drain.

The problem with neoconservative thought is that it can’t see past the next few months because of all the fantasies flickering around in their minds obscuring the future. They invade a country with 74% Shia population bordering Shia Iran then are flabbergasted that the two countries are aligning. Just astounded, never saw that coming!

Now their vision is that Georgia slips into NATO and Russia meekly accedes and pulls out. Because of what? Because of the threat of NATO invading South Ossetia, overthrowing the Russian Army which is being supplied from next door Russia, pushing Russia back across the border somehow then occupying South Ossetia to keep the Russians out?

They are insane. At least Scheunemann sold his soul for money.

It is inconceivable to me that anyone--regardless of political persuasion--would wish to go to war with Russia. Motivation?

So I enter this discussion on the assumption that anyone who wishes to invite Georgia into NATO believes that Russia has been the aggressor.

Does everything turn on this? I mean, suppose what you seem to think false--that this assumption is true. The Russians have unjustly invaded innocent Georgia. What would you say on that supposition?

I hope you see that I am in the process of trying to form an opinion here--not defend one that I already have. Think of this as a teacher-student exchange.

]

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

and I have noticed that the usual "wing-nuts" around here have not seen fit to answer this with comments of their own. I know it isn't that reality has, at last, set in...there must be another reason. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I appreciate your insight and your knowledge of the details.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."

I'm out of this Georgia thread. After reading everything on-line about Georgia, Russia and South Ossetia my brain hurts. I'll leave this for those of you that are far more cerebral than I.

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I know there are some that will be "sold" on Palin, cuz she is so likeable, cute and perky... someone you would feel comfortable sitting down and having a beer with and.....

wait a minute...this sounds familiar. We've been down this comfy road before with Bush and look where it has gotten us.

I'm sorry, but I WANT my leaders to be SMARTER than me! I want them to have met foreign leaders during their political careers, I want them to have traveled outside of the U.S., to be more worldly than me, even better educated, I WANT that wall between church and state.

Oh man, we have really lost our way.

(p.s. I heard today that Palin is a believer in the "Young Earth" philosophy. Anyone else hear this?)

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"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."

I'm sorry, but I WANT my leaders to be SMARTER than me! I want them to have met foreign leaders during their political careers, I want them to have traveled outside of the U.S., to be more worldly than me, even better educated

Yeah, well so do we. I WANT my leaders to know there aren't 57 states in our country. I WANT my leaders to know they are in Sioux Falls, SD and not call it Sioux City when speaking to the citizens there. I WANT my leaders to know there were only 12 people killed in a tornado in Kansas when the genius was speaking there and said 10,000 people were killed and an entire city destroyed. (Where's that darn teleprompter???) Oh, and I WANT my leaders to be "worldly" enough to know that Joe Pa coaches the Nittany Lions, not the Nittaly Lions, when speaking there.

"You can't even lead a Democrat to the truth"

I wondered this as well.

A little Googling brought inconclusive results. Some blogger
cites comments she made some time ago that at least allow for this.

If she does believe this, you can bet she'll keep a tight lid on it (to Matt Damon's disappointment. He really wants to know if she believes that dinosaurs roamed the earth 4000 years ago.)

Of course, if she is a young earther, then she has a conversation stopper available to her when someone makes assertions about what happened millions of years ago. Were you there?

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

I'm the last person in the world to be defending Caribou Barbie, but I think the hand wringing about Palin's extremist religious beliefs may be a tad overblown.

From what I've read, when she renounced Catholicism for her current Dominionist church, she had a period where she regurgitated the AOG/End Times doctrine verbatim ("young Earth", "Teach the controversy", etc). This helped her build enormous "street cred" with the fundies in a short period of time and helped her establish a political base.

Now that she's been elected to statewide office, Madame Moose-ilini has studiously kept the shiny eyed brethren who helped her get there at arm's length, evidently cultivating a more "moderate" image.

This is what politicians do. She is not very smart, but she is very clever (a female Dubya, if you will). Perhaps she has studied Ronald Reagan's magnificent manipulation of the Religious Right for politcal gain.

Wow. Caribou Barbie and Madame Moose-ilini. I guess name-calling helps your feeble discourse. Liberals show you respect only when you agree with their b.s.

I understand how you already determined she is not very smart. Reading your posts drives me to that same conclusion about you.

Great video, muddle.

Yoked and saddled dinosaurs, working the fields for Job. Wow.

Bush has done a terrific job of dumbing-down America and McSame/Palin will continue the downward spiral.

Strap yourselves in, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

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"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."

Evolution?

Come to think of it my Grandfather and Grandmother were kind of hairy.

Wulf

And a "wulf-man" would seem to qualify as one of those many transitional forms predicted on Darwin's theory (but rarely found).

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"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue

Darwin?

Mom always said we were special, now I’m finding out how special we are.

Everyone else was created and we wulfs evolved from monkeys.

Now that’s special!!

Wulf

Even after reading your post, Mrs Cy still likes Palin.
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That's one of the great things about our country. We can agree to disagree, vote for who we believe to be the best candidate, and still get along with each other.

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"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."

Sarah Palin is smarter than I. She is governor of Alaska; I'm not. She was selected as McCain's running mate; I wasn't.

I believe they have people in Washington called "advisors." Do you honestly think George made all those decisions by himself? And all politicians at that level have speech writers. So what's the real problem?

Cheney told him what to do and they will tell McCain same thing like who his VP will be.

I would hope to use the power of the military alliance as a deterrent for one country to overthrow the government of another sovereign country.

.... in that case we would have had NATO troops in the U.S. as soon as George Dubya made the decision to invade Iraq.
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Making you think twice......

I do hate to cut-and-paste, but here is an excerpt from an article (South Day Daily Breeze) who quotes one Republican Congressman's feelings that the Russians were right:

" South Bay Rep. Dana Rohrabacher broke with America's foreign policy establishment, and with the leaders of his own party, when he blamed the Republic of Georgia this week for its recent conflict with Russia.

At a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Tuesday, Rohrabacher said that he had spoken with intelligence sources who had informed him that Georgia started the conflict.

"The Georgians broke the truce, not the Russians," Rohrabacher said. "The Russians are right. We're wrong. The Georgians started it. The Russians ended it."

He also compared the idea that the Georgians had been provoked into a military response with the 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, which offered a pretext for an expansion of American involvement in Vietnam.

The Republican congressman's remarks received little notice in the American media, but they were featured prominently in several Russian newspapers and television reports, where they were taken as vindication of the Russian viewpoint""

The NATO pact means that when one NATO member is attacked, all others respond. It doesn't mean that NATO members have to get involved in every conflict of any NATO member unless that member is attacked. It's a defense pact, not an aggression pact. I didn't see any Iraqi attacks on the USA.

Georgia has been pushing for NATO membership for a while, and it's no surprise that Russia decided to invade before that happened. If Georgia does gain membership in NATO, it could down the road lead to some real testy times between the Russians and NATO.

When and where was this comment made? If true, this is terrifying! Our country is a war-based economy - and I feel that we should be discussing the issues that will base our economy on strategies that will lead us to peace - not war! We should be concentrating on providing jobs for our own citizens. We should be working hard to find clean fuel, affordable energy, etc. (You know, the issues that all citizens should be concerned with before they vote!) This is not a liberal/conservative discussion - it's a discussion all citizens should be having for SURVIVAL!! Whoever is elected, we must hold the feet of our legislators in Congress and the executive branch to the fire. We have just lost more than 4000 men and women – out finest – in a war with a questionable objective. Many of our citizens felt it was ‘revenge’ for 9/11. . .and would insure the capture of Bin Laden. I felt it was a national security issue – to protect us from ‘weapons of mass destruction’ that were never found. Please share the actual comment with all of us. Thanks.

I have decided you are a wimp. Give Palin the nuclear codes and let's get it on! I'm still disappointed that the LHC didn't create a black hole. Nuclear annihilation is the next best thing.

Sarah Palin Defends Experience

Alas, we are left only with the black hole between your ears.

Whoever is elected, we must hold the feet of our legislators in Congress and the executive branch to the fire.

AMEN!!!!!
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