Valerie Plame v. William Ayers.

Sat, 08/23/2008 - 12:51pm
By: Richard Hobbs

Many on this website, blogged over and over again, about the Valerie Plane affair. (see JeffC and Hack's comments)

"Treason! Impeachment! Politics at it's worst!" was blogged over and over about Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, and George Bush.

But what about the terrorist named William Ayers and the Weather Underground group, which bombed the U.S. Capital, the Pentagon, and killed police officers. Ayers brags today, that they didn't do "enough".

Ayers connection with Obama include these two highlights:

1. Ayers gives a young, community organizer with no creditials of running a business, partial control over $49 million dollars in grants.
2. Ayers invites Obama to his home for Ayers blessing. Ayer's, like the Godfather movies, controls the political climate of Southside Chicago.

There are numerous other "facts" and information about that association, that Barack continues to run from. But I'd like to ask Jeff and Hack, which is worse, associating with the likes of William Ayers, who is not serving life in prison because of a legal technicality, or acknowledging that Valerie Plan worked at the CIA?

Will you use the terms "treason" when addressing this matter?

Okay Jeff and Hack. Do your spin, because I know you won't address the real facts.

To see a detailed commentary and a video, check out this website:

The Evidence Against Barack Obama!

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buZZard's picture
Submitted by buZZard on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 10:29pm.

Just curious,
Do you like or dislike Barack Obama?

Obama – Biden, doesn’t sound American to me


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Mon, 08/25/2008 - 10:04pm.

(Does this quote look familiar)

----Now that Barack Obama has chosen Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate, will liberals in the media question the Delaware senator about a Washington Post interview from October 2007 in which he cited low minority population as a reason Iowa schools are performing better than those in Washington D.C.?

Biden asserted in the October 25, 2007 article, "There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with." [Emphasis added]

The Post reexamined the quote in a generally positive editorial that ran on Sunday. The paper took pains to note that in 2007, "The Biden campaign quickly issued a statement asserting that the candidate was referring to socioeconomic status, not racial differences."

Just for fun of course.


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 5:55pm.

Is anyone else besides me getting a kick out of the fact that an attorney cannot spell the word "versus" correctly?

Gotta wonder what exactly they taught Mr. Hobbes at the then-unaccredited John Marshall discount school of Law, Cosmetology and Auto Repair.


carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 6:08pm.

Until I found the "The Associated Press Stylebook and Libel Manual" I too was a confused user of words.

"Whatever you practice is what you will be good at".


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sun, 08/24/2008 - 4:30am.

Thanks for the name of the book. What does it say about ending a sentence with a preposition? e.g. ". . . what you are good at?"

Again, another example of where I should have paid closer attention when I was sleeping in High School.

As Winston Churchill once said to a publisher who was upset over one of his sentences, "This is the kind of impertinence up with which I shall not put."

And isn't that period supposed to be included inside the quotation marks? I can never remember that rule either.

Your selection of books is one that I will loathe to read, but for which I shall consider purchasing. Thanks.


carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 08/24/2008 - 6:31am.

Thanks for the commentary. I like the period where it is at.

"Whatever you practice is what you will be good at".


Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 4:39pm.

Not sure I follow whatever type of syllogism you're using here, friend.

P → Q.
Q → R.
Therefore, P → R
But P is ... morally superior than Q???

I'm not sure what you're trying to "prove".


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 2:00pm.

Outing a covert CIA agent for political reasons is giving aid and comfort to the enemy, the very definition of treason. That’s way worse than serving of the board of a non-profit organization promoting education with a man who was engaged in criminal activity when Obama was eight years old.

No contest here, that’s why all the Presidential pardons were needed.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 4:53pm.

Because I thought maybe, just maybe, your bloodline is comfortable going down with the ship. Obama's little dingy is filling up faster and faster, and as long as he was in dry dock, i.e. the safe haven of the Democratic primaries, no one cared about his loyalities, his associates, or his lack of experience or credentials.

Even now, you are playing the Obama's instrument, as a member of the orchestra. With Obama's wonderful credentials and leadership, you'll sit on the deck and play "And the (Obama) Band Played On".

The outing of Plame was done by a career diplomat. Scooter acknowledged she worked at the CIA, and Rove said the same. Plame was not some James Bond, sleeping with the enemy with a secret spy camera mounted to her super secret spy BMW. She was a desk jockey, albeit, she did some overseas work but very little if any in five years prior.
Nonetheless, thats a horse that died a long time ago.

Your response to the question was anticipated. Since you and your elk often enjoy the company of world dictators and corrupt governments, giving them the opportunity to quash the opposition over their rigged elections. See Chavez. So hanging out with a guy that brags about the bombings at the capital and the killing of police officers, as being "not enough", doesn't surprise me at all.

But Jeff, there is a difference, a big difference. I'll not belabor the ignorance of your position, just allow others to understand the "nuanced" reasoning that a liberal has about what an American President is supposed to represent.

The question was rhetorical, really, because there isn't a comparison.

Maybe if you let me buy you a Yeungling, you might start take off those Marxist Colored Racist glasses, and see Barack for what he really is.

Now lets move on to the 98-0 vote on the Infanticide Bill that Obama opposed. I can't wait to hear your explanation of that opinion.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 6:25pm.

Arguing with you when you have so many facts that I am not privileged to and you can whip them out on me and blindside me with them. I am left just relying on the CIA Director Michael Hayden’s sworn testimony before Congress whereas you have the real inside scoop from sources I can only envy.

CIA Director Hayden: Valerie Plame Was Covert Agent

The old canard about Chavez rigging the election is and has been proven to be just a figment in the imagination of right-wing nuts who just make stuff up and tell it to other gullible people who have neither the background to understand what they’re talking about nor the capacity to analyze the information. If you’re interested, I covered all this two years ago:

Venezuela, Castro, Iran and Rove

They counted the ballots on live TV.

You guys only like democracy if they vote your way. Like China, Russia and Cuba’s system.

You don’t recognize a real Marxist even when you get up in the morning and see one shaving in the mirror.


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 6:07pm.

Richard, I know you consider it great fun to make ad hominem attacks against Jeff Carter, but you should leave his wife, children and especially his elk out of your petty harangues.

You don't want to make Jeff's elk angry...trust me. LINK


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sun, 08/24/2008 - 4:20am.

Me thinks that thou doth protesteth too much? (By attacking the messenger, rather than his poorly proof read comments.)

Since my spill chocker ain't ben working too good lateley, I'll juast axe you to fix mye mistakes four me.
------
Guilty as charged Sniffles, guilty as charged.

My real guilt is hanging around on this blog too much, and running errands in between a quick retort.

As to Jeff's "elk," well I was referring not to his family, or for that matter a bull moose, I was referring to those that ingore the facts so readily, merely to accomadate their partisan faith.

My spell checker apparently isn't as smart as I had hoped. If only it knew the difference between ilk and elk, and versus versus verses, then I'd be much happier right now. Because disappointing you really upsets me. Sides, aren't you Jeff's wife?

Jeff's still trying to have Bush impeached on this blog by digging back up his research from two years ago. I can just see him typing in the middle of the night, (it's 5:20 a.m.here) doggedly trying to prove that the whole yellow cake uranium investigation was accomplished while Plame's husband sipped mint juleps by the pool asking every pool boy if they knew anything about it or not.

So keep on reading Sniffles. I'm sure you will find many more of my ad hominem attacks on here, especially up until the wee hours of November 4th/5th when the 12 Fayette County Democratic voters will be cryin' about how another election was stolen from them, again.

I predict this election will go down as the greatest bust of our generation. Even now His Supreme Holiness' polling numbers are falling, worse than the Pelosi/Reed Congress. His pick for V.P. shows that he and his advisors, i.e. Wright, Farrakan, and Ayers are getting worried.

So tell me sniffles, can you honestly look at this ticket and wonder, WT*? Mind you, no one could find a VP who had less experience than Obama, but for "the candidate of change" to pick a 35 year veteran of Washington Politics, doesn't sound "consistent," but since when did "consistency" ever get in the way of a politician, especially one like Obama.

He should have chosen Hillary, now she has to sit back and let him implode under the weight of his own ego and shortcomings.


JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 3:21pm.

Jeff has a way of quoting numerous left wing rags to defend his point (i.e. Daily Kos). If you noticed the in the story that he linked, there was a tone of vitriol against "conservatives" and "the right" to the point of conspiracy theory. Jeff also has a tendancy to call all conservatives "neo-cons" without knowing the actual meaning. I find his arguments amusing at times, and others just plain hard headed.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 3:54pm.

I don’t think I’ve ever referenced Daily Kos except for a reprint of an article that appeared elsewhere and even then I disclosed that it was Daily Kos just to tweak Richard for having to access the site to read it.

However, since you didn’t like the information because it was reported in one of my left wing rags, here is the statement of Rep. Henry A. Waxman verbatim from the sworn testimony from the official House of Representatives transcript:

“But General Hayden and the CIA have cleared these following comments for today's hearing. During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited fiom disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.”

Disclosure of CIA Agent Valerie Plame Wilson's Identity

Page two.

Neocon: (nee-o-kon ) Conservatives who have avoided military service and whose views, if followed, will result in foreign policy disasters or start wars in which they will have no personal stake.


JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 4:16pm.

My issue for the entire Plame non-affair, was the persecution of the wrong person. If you recall, it was not Scooter, Rove nor Bush that was responsible. It was rather odd to see that Robert Novak finally showed up after the blame game and indictments went against Rove.

You're argument with Mr. Hobbs still does not address the fact that Williams Ayers (a known domestic terrorist) is still an associate of one Barrack Hussein Obama. It was a nice attempt to skirt the issue, and a common tactic of the left. My wife likes to call it blame shifting.

On a side note, I wish you could have been in Cali with us over the weekend. We hit Sonoma on Friday (Alderbrook, Limerick Lane, DeLoach, B.R. Cohn, Loxton and St. Francis). Sunday was Napa (Chateau Montalena, Bennett Lane, Envy, Summers, Flora Springs and Whitehall Lane). Many tasty grape beverages had by all. En Vino Veritas.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 6:00pm.

Man I hate to have missed the Cali tour. They've got some great stuff out there.

As to Ayers, I just don't think there's enough there to hurt Obama with anyone who might vote for him anyway. Business associates in an NGO and a few sporadic contacts is pretty thin. Not that I think it won't be brought up over and over.

Follow the money though. The real culprit is Walter Annenburg who provided the funding for the charity they were associated with. I bet it was some nefarious plot involving Annenburg's friend Reagan too.

My wife is predicting Pawlenty, I'm still hoping for Mitt so we can beat him up about being a job killing machine. Maybe Ridge so Hagee will hang himself. Got a preference?

Bill was great last night! Much as I hate to admit it. People forget how good he is at this game. The family HMWIC is predicting a big bounce out of the convention, over 10 points, as the disgruntled Hillary voters line up. I'm dubious about 10 points plus but we'll see.

I hope the R's convention is about more than drill now/POW but I'm not hopeful.

We live in interesting times.


Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 08/29/2008 - 4:48am.

Oh, we have had "interesting" times before, Jeff.

Remember Tom Dewey? I do.

Richard Nixon? (reminds me of Hagee, all knowing, all correct)

Dan Quayle?

That Governor of Maryland who was a business crook and resigned as VP?

Harry Truman? (really worshiped the office)

Abe Lincoln? What????? A log splitter and law reader, with a nut for a wife?

George and Tom (slave holders and at least one of them Fathers of slave children--children other than with their wives.)

Jimmy Carter? Peanut farmer, brother of "Billy" and Governor of GA? Like Truman, some unusual ones did well.

I could go on---it is the American way!

Submitted by Bonkers on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 5:05pm.

You neocons would have outed 007 if he had voted liberal!

Or at least excuse the dude what did out him!

If you would like to furnish a list of all the Airline control towers in the country to the Taliban, I'm sure they are in the phone books!

Most of these guys who work there are also UNION people!

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Wed, 08/27/2008 - 7:38pm.

Once again someone uses the term "neo-con", without nowing what it means. Is that the name calling that the left uses when they have lost the argument, and have too much pride to admit defeat? Sounds a bit reminiscent of Mrs. Hillary Clinton.

As for your Taliban comment, it seems a little brash and immature. By the way, you're talking to a decorated veteran. I'm sure you'd like to use your name calling powers to call me "baby killer" or something else to that effect, but please don't ever question my patriotism again. I stood in awe and sadness when the towers fell. Have you forgotten? Perhaps, you are one of the conspiracy freaks that thought it was an "inside job". Either way, don't jest and disrepect those who have fought and fallen. You only bring disgrace upon yourself for such comments.

Now, on to the "UNION" issue. IMAO, I believe that unions served a purpose at sometime in history. But now they serve to extinguish the very companies that employ them. Another term you might be familiar with would be "biting the hand that feeds them". Let's use the American auto industry (Detroit), the American steel industry, education etc as examples. Do you recall the Air Traffic Controllers strike of the mid '80s? I'm guessing you were too busy Reagan bashing.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”


Submitted by Bonkers on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 5:29am.

I know exactly what a neocon is! They used to be conservative democrats but converted to republicans, especially in Georgia and Virginia, in order to get elected. Voters of wealth are now republicans, so democrats who used to get elected by working people had to change when the working people no longer would vote for their "democrat" conservatism. Hypocrites, in other words!
As to Hillary, I don't know what else she can do to concede! She wants to run next time, you know?
What has a veteran got to do with my Taliban comment? I am a veteran also. I am saying that some will be traitorous as necessary to try and save a dude like GW Bush! The Plame thing was getting near the white house.
As to the Towers being an "inside job," I doubt that! Although there are many in the USA who hate the kind of business done in those kind of buildings!
Well, IMAOs are like noses, everyone has one! It is well known that Industry Barons will maltreat workers if they can. Also, it is well known that some unions do nothing except protect jobs of some inefficient people. That is the company's fault however for not forming their own unions and fighting them.
Reagan will be bashed forever due to his five trillion dollar debt he left me, and us. It is insurmountable! He started this credit problem we now have!

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 9:06am.

Your definition of a neo-con is bassackwards. It is someone who has seen the light and errors of their ways. What would make you think that I have been a Dem in the past. Thanks for the label, but it doesn't fit. I grew up in Northern California. From the time I was a freshman in high school I grew tired of the whiny freaks protesting everything. I just love the liberal mind set. "Someone sneezed! It must be Bush's fault! Or, "Save the endangered speckled belly croco-stimpy at the cost of the humans."

Now, on to your Taliban statement. To imply that because I vote conservative, that somehow means that I would sell out my country to suicide bombers. If you don't understand why that peeved me as a veteran, then I now know why you are no longer serving. I guessing a possible issue with authority, or maybe you just knew better than everyone else. Judging by your eerily angry post(s), I'm also guessing that you are still in the same boat.

Are you sure about Reagan starting the credit problem? It is my impression, or possibly even fact, that President Reagan helped to create one of the most prosperous decades to date. He managed to unscrew everything that Ole' Peanut Boy did.

Perhaps it was the nincompoop borrowers that thought they could have the car, house and bling then not have to pay for it. Or maybe, it was the folks that said lending institutions made it too difficult for those poor poor pitiful poor to borrow money. The laws were changed and the banks had to comply. Now we are looking at doing it all over again.

Your hatred of the current president will be nothing compared to what it will be when the Messiah gets into office. Then again, I speculate that you would approve of a hammer and sickle on our flag.

Buh-Bye Bonkers, buh-bye.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”


Submitted by Bonkers on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 11:10am.

The debt Reagan made wasn't about housing---he borowed over four TRILLION to balance his budgets then! We still owe that and four more that GW made!
Bush allowed the foreclosures. Anybody will take a FREE house if you don't have one and aren't working!
I'm voting for McCain--not Obama. McCain is a pretty good republican
in that he says they are full of it when they are!

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Thu, 08/28/2008 - 12:39pm.

So, you're saying the Democrat controlled congress has nothing to do with the foreclosure rate? You know, that congress that has single digit approval ratings versus President Bush's 30%. Reaganomics worked to increase domestic spending. He also managed to out spent the Soviets. Cold war won.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 08/23/2008 - 6:30pm.

Jeff has elk? On Spear Rd?

I hope they're fenced. Eye-wink


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