I question one who professes the love of Jesus Christ - and is attempting to reflect that love - and then goes out of their way to vilify any and all aspects of beliefs that do not coincide with theirs. To vilify is not to love. Don't they teach you that in your church BPR? If Christian Scientists or others are considered your enemies - why does your church (or you) not 'love' them as fellow 'humans'? Are Christian Scientists threatening to your belief?

True love always promotes the truth. They are inseparable. Not telling someone, such as an alcoholic or drug addict, the truth is not love. To let that person continue in self-destructive behavior is not true love. It's weakness, cowardice, indifference, or ignorance.

Vilify: To make vicious and defamatory (harmful and often untrue) statements about; malign (to make evil, harmful, and often untrue statements about; speak evil of; evil in disposition, nature, or intent)

Where has BPR "villified" [sic] other beliefs? It's OK for you to judge ("question") her profession, but not OK for her to judge ("question") BLT, CS, etc.

Or for you to tell Richard Hobbs when he makes the mistake of attributing a quote to the wrong Congresswoman, "I know in your world 'we' all look alike.... As usual, you spout a lot based on misinformation.... You are so absorbed in 'race' hate - its [sic] pathetic." The intolerance of the "tolerant"....

Perhaps your statement that 9/11 happened because "someone in the Bush administration" "thought an incident may secure a second term" could be considered vilifying our president. You're free to believe that, but you should expect others to challenge the reasonableness of such beliefs.

If BLT (or other beliefs) is true and good, then it will be able to withstand someone's sincere questioning and comparison to the standard of God's Word. Only error wants no discussion -- no questions asked.

The beliefs of Christian Scientists are in opposition to the truth of God's Word. They are free to believe what they want, but followers of Christ are commanded to "make disciples" of all men, "teaching them to obey everything" that Christ has commanded.

You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine. (Titus 2:1)

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage — with great patience and careful instruction [doctrine]. (2 Timothy 4:2)

God gave pastors and teachers to instruct and correct ("speaking the truth in love") so that believers would "no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming." (Ephesians 4: 10, 14, 15)

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9) [Doctrine must be defined and examined to determine if it is truth or error.]

If you want to defend CS or BLT doctrines, then you're free to do so. You're not being forced to convert to that or any other faith. CS has long been considered a cult, or a false religion, by traditional Christianity. But if you want to believe in it, you should not become offended if someone asks you to consider if it is the truth. I notice that you did not address any of the CS doctrines mentioned in BPR's link.

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. (1 Peter 3:15)

How can one give an answer if questions are not allowed, or if the questioner is characterized as a villain?

“What does Christian Science Teach?”

“Interesting Quotes from Mary Baker Eddy”:

"If there had never existed such a person as the Galilean Prophet, it would make no difference to me."

"Weird Cult"

_______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Most denominations in the United States do not consider Christian Science a 'cult'. These are the Tenets of Christian Science. How others interpret them is up to the individual.

THE TENETS OF CHRISTIAN SCIENCE

From "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures,"
by Mary Baker Eddy, p. 497:3-27
1. As adherents of Truth, we take the inspired Word of the Bible as our sufficient guide to eternal Life.

2. We acknowledge and adore one supreme and infinite God. We acknowledge His Son, one Christ; the Holy Ghost or divine Comforter; and man in God’s image and likeness.

3. We acknowledge God’s forgiveness of sin in the destruction of sin and the spiritual understanding that casts out evil as unreal. But the belief in sin is punished so long as the belief lasts.

4. We acknowledge Jesus’ atonement as the evidence of divine, efficacious Love, unfolding man’s unity with God through Christ Jesus the Way-shower; and we acknowledge that man is saved through Christ, through Truth, Life, and Love as demonstrated by the Galilean Prophet in healing the sick and overcoming sin and death.

5. We acknowledge that the crucifixion of Jesus and his resurrection served to uplift faith to understand eternal Life, even the allness of Soul, Spirit, and the nothingness of matter.

6. And we solemnly promise to watch, and pray for that Mind to be in us which was also in Christ Jesus; to do unto others as we would have them do unto us; and to be merciful, just, and pure.

Taking selective 'sound bites' to prove your points - and using them to prove others are wrong. . . .very interesting. You have been well- taught. Everyone has his or her 'beliefs'. Please answer this question. Where on the website of the BLT does it instruct 'hate towards white people'? For persons who espoused their love for all mankind - you are quick to vilify those who don't agree with you. I have not vilified either one of you - for I believe in the words of our master - Love your neighbor, as you love yourself. Of course I pray for you BPR - daily when I pray for all mankind. Do you pray for me? Christians reflect their God through their love. The bible says "God is Love'. You both had me almost fooled with this 'Christian' talk - until you started vilifying others who don't agree with your doctrine. Keep posting - and others, if they're interested, will do their own research. Knowledge is power.

This is exactly what Mr. Wright said and James Cone BLT.

Mar 18, 2008

Senator Barack Obama is not a Muslim, contrary to invidious rumors. But he belongs to a Christian church whose doctrine casts Jesus Christ as a “black messiah” and blacks as “the chosen people”. At best, this is a radically different kind of Christianity than most Americans acknowledge; at worst it is an ethnocentric heresy.

What played out last week on America’s television screens was a clash of two irreconcilable cultures, the posture of “black liberation theology” and the mainstream American understanding of Christianity. Obama, who presented himself as a unifying figure, now seems rather the living embodiment of the clash.

One of the strangest dialogues in American political history ensued on March 15 when Fox News interviewed Obama’s pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, of Chicago’s Trinity Church. Wright asserted the authority of the “black liberation” theologians James Cone and Dwight Hopkins:

Wright: How many of Cone’s books have you read? How many of Cone’s book have you read?

Sean Hannity: Reverend, Reverend?

(crosstalk)

Wright: How many books of Cone’s have you head?

Hannity: I’m going to ask you this question …

Wright: How many books of Dwight Hopkins have you read?

Hannity: You’re very angry and defensive. I’m just trying to ask a question here.

Wright: You haven’t answered - you haven’t answered my question.

Hopkins is a full professor at the University of Chicago’s Divinity School; Cone is now distinguished professor at New York’s Union Theological Seminary. They promote a “black power” reading of Christianity, to which liberal academic establishment condescends.

Obama referred to this when he asserted in a March 14 statement, “I knew Reverend Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago.” But the fact the liberal academy condescends to sponsor black liberation theology does not make it less peculiar to mainstream American Christians. Obama wants to talk about what Wright is, rather than what he says. But that way lies apolitical quicksand.

Since Christianity taught the concept of divine election to the Gentiles, every recalcitrant tribe in Christendom has rebelled against Christian universalism, insisting that it is the “Chosen People” of God - French, English, Russian, Germans and even (through the peculiar doctrine of Mormonism) certain Americans. America remains the only really Christian country in the industrial world, precisely because it transcends ethnicity. One finds ethnocentricity only in odd corners of its religious life; one of these is African-American.

During the black-power heyday of the late 1960s, after the murder of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr, the mentors of Wright decided that blacks were the Chosen People. James Cone, the most prominent theologian in the “black liberation” school, teaches that Jesus Christ himself is black. As he explains:

Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.

Theologically, Cone’s argument is as silly as the “Aryan Christianity” popular in Nazi Germany, which claimed that Jesus was not a Jew at all but an Aryan Galilean, and that the Aryan race was the “chosen people”. Cone, Hopkins and Wright do not propose, of course, to put non-blacks in concentration camps or to conquer the world, but racially-based theology nonetheless is a greased chute to the nether regions.

Biblical theology teaches that even the most terrible events to befall Israel, such as the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BCE, embody the workings of divine justice, even if humankind cannot see God’s purpose. James Cone sees the matter very differently. Either God must do what we want him to do, or we must reject him, Cone maintains:

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love. [1]

In the black liberation theology taught by Wright, Cone and Hopkins, Jesus Christ is not for all men, but only for the oppressed:

In the New Testament, Jesus is not for all, but for the oppressed, the poor and unwanted of society, and against oppressors … Either God is for black people in their fight for liberation and against the white oppressors, or he is not [Cone]…

Davids Mom - Spoken by Mr. Wright and quotes from James Cone founder of BLT

Yes David's Mom- I do pray for you and since all of this I have not said mankind only but I have said Davids Mom.

BLT is not Christianity when it does not go along with scripture from the bible.

I have never be in doubt of your Christian life- God is the judge.
But you doubt both mine and Denise Christian Life- again God is the judge.

Have a nice night.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

Good luck trying to convince a black person that BLT is wrong. The hate whitey sermons are very popular.

Why would a black person want to stand up and take responsibility for their situation when they are taught by the Rev. Wright to blame it off on whitey?

You are right on this one, the good Rev. Wright is wrong.

We can only hope the congregation will ignore Rev Wright’s hate sermons and take the honorable Judge Marvin Arrington words to heart.

Wulf

"Why would a black person want to stand up and take responsibility for their situation when they are taught by the Rev. Wright to blame it off on whitey?"

Please tell me, wulfee, what in my situation, or Barack's situation, or in David's Mom's situation do we need to "take responsibility for." And what, might we ask, have we "blamed whitey" for? I've been searching my computer's files. I've asked my wife. I even called my parents, but we can't find anything we are blaming on white folks. Maybe you'll have better luck than I did.

Kevin "Hack" King

Calling me a chicken WOW you really know how to hurt a white guy’s feelings.

I wasn’t fishing for you but if the hook fits? My comment was in regard to the Fine Rev. Wright and his congregation. You know the one that preaches hate whitey and gets a free pass by you because he is ex military.

I didn’t know you and David’s Mom were members of his congregation. Since Obama didn’t reply I guess he didn’t see my post.

So to answer your question, I didn’t state Hackee and David’s Mom had a situation to be responsible for.

Maybe you need to read before you leap.

Take off your aviator glasses your seeing everything way to dark.

Wulfee

His reading skills are sorely lacking, but his honesty is even more so. He often chooses not to "see" what someone has plainly said but only "sees" what fits his liberal mindset. A lot like Hillary & Obama that way. I think he threw away his glasses... maybe while under sniper fire.

Yeah, Hackee seems to think any post about Rev. Wright, Obama or any other black man or woman is a direct attack on him and the whole black race

I think he’s taking things a little too personal. It may be from wearing those dark aviator shades for so many years.

Wulf

.... and their candidates, doesn't it? Hilarious! The conservatives have been reduced to talking about the democratic candidates. In this regard only, you have much in common with the rest of America. I just got back from Miami where I took my daughter for a University of Miami visit. Obama stickers EVERYWHERE! Even my kids mentioned it. Just a few Hillary bumper stickers. Guess how many McCain's we saw? Goose egg. Just a bunch of "liberals." Anyway, Denise, since you decided to run on over and talk to Hack 'cause I shined a light on your disdain for the stinky poor homeless people: Read YOUR WORDS AGAIN WULFMAN:

"Why would a black person want to stand up and take responsibility for their situation when they are taught by the Rev. Wright to blame it off on whitey?"

Am I not black anymore?

Oh, and Chicken Little was originally a Hare, but I'm use to completely uninformed conservatives.

Kevin "Hack" King

“Oh, and Chicken Little was originally a Hare, but I'm use [sic] to completely uninformed conservatives.” Hostile, aren’t we?

There are several versions of “Chicken Little”: the recent Disney animated feature film (looks like a chicken to me) and the 1943 classic animated version (looks like a chicken to me) – see the Jitter-Birds in the VIDEO.

The Good Ol' Days Before Political Correctness:

“To influence the masses, aim first at the least intelligent.” (Those who swoon and moon)

“'If you tell a lie, don't tell a little one – tell a big one.” (I NEVER heard those remarks.)

“Undermine the faith of the masses in their leaders.” ("Would Obama Prosecute Bush Officials for War Crimes?")

“By the use of flattery, insignificant people can be made to look upon themselves as born leaders.” (O-Girl's Latest Hit) -- WARNING: Not child-friendly!

There’s the fable The Sky Is Falling, better known as Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, or Chicken Little (looks like a chicken to me), that ends with one of two morals:

“Don’t be a chicken (hare?). Have courage.” (McCain's already done that.)

“Don’t believe everything that you’re told.” (Especially about B-HO)

The most widely known version is the children’s read-aloud story with those memorable characters: Chicken Little (fuzzy, yellow, beak – looks like a hare to you ), Henny Penny, Cocky Locky, Goosey Poosey (or her sister Goosey Loosey), Turkey Lurkey, Ducky Lucky, and the wicked Foxy Loxy (Woxy). (But there's no WULFEE. )

The story has been retold and illustrated by Steven Kellogg (still looks like a chicken to me).

That's not to be confused with that favorite of conservatives, The Little Red Hen.

From 1961 there’s the Chicken Little: The MIRACLE OF LIFE in an Eggshell, with “embryos in various stages of development." Complete with a hatched baby chick!

Last but not least, there’s the Chicken Little Award: an “achievement” award given by The Center for Creating the Future to people and organizations considered to be engaged in “deliberately false, media-driven scare campaigns regarding environmental” calamities.

A similar award is given by The National Anxiety Center to organizations or individuals that use “theories with little scientific fact to scare the daylights out of countless Americans and rip off billions of dollars from them” and have “foisted on Americans and others [‘the worst lies’] in order to destroy the astonishing progress mankind has made to improve everyone's life.”

This story has been an inspiration to conservatives every where.

Are you sure that you weren't thinking of The Tortoise Hillary and the Hare Obama?

Can’t you read? "Why would a black person want to stand up and take responsibility for their situation (when they are taught by the Rev. Wright to blame it off on whitey?")

Exactly what date did Rev. Wright teach you? What day did you join his Church?

If you can’t answer the above questions then the above statement doesn’t apply to you.

Like always instead of answering the questions you go off on your little diatribe about Republicans.

Then you go off on Denise about smelly homeless people.

How many trips did you make to Atlanta this winter to hand out coats to people sleeping on the streets that you purchased with your own money?

How many Homeless women with children have you given a job, so they can work their way out of poverty and purchase a home for their children.

How many times did you go down to a run down apartment complex on MLK and read the riot act to a slum lord because the lady that works for you came to work crying because the ceiling from the apartment above fell on her and three children while they were asleep and dumped sewage on them?

How many homeless women with three children have you pledged the funds needed to send the children to college?

How many smelly Vets have you put in your car and purchased a hot meal, clothes for and sought alcohol/drug abuse and mental health care for?

Once a month I go into places where most white people wouldn’t drive let alone get out of the car, to offer help and hope to needy families that live in the community.

I now have several former homeless single moms working at my company I wished I could hire all that need a job and want to work.

Hack unlike you, I know raising taxes is not the answer. The answer is lifting up people needing a helping hand not just a hand out. Help them get a job and a GED, help them send their children to college.

Come down off your high horse Hack, come on out and get your hands and car dirty.

Put one of those smelly homeless Vets in your car buy him some clothes, hot meal and seek help for his addictions and mental problems. Walk the walk instead of talking the talk.

Pick an apartment or housing project in Atlanta go in there make a difference help a black family be a mentor to a young man or woman lift them up show them black men and women can be successful through education and hard work.

Hack one of my first post on this site was about a young lady named Pam. She was homeless with three children. ( Search Pam or one of those people)

I’m thankful that Pam showed up at my company’s door looking for a job she has truly been an inspiration to my family and our employees.

It’s because of Pam that I got more involved in helping people that want a hand up not a hand out.

Wrights hate speech is not going to solve this problem Obama or Clinton raising taxes to pay for more programs won’t get the job done.

Instead of just spouting the party line about homeless people I am doing my best to help.

Wulfee the chicken

Can’t you read?
Of course he can't (at least with comprehension of stats and facts) otherwise Denise would have had him educated long ago!

Exactly what date did Rev. Wright teach you? What day did you join his Church?

If you can’t answer the above questions then the above statement doesn’t apply to you.

I have learned over the few posts that if you dare insult his Lord and Master (not the church one) but Obama -- any semblance of logic goes out the window and the Hack the facts persona takes over.

How many trips did you make to Atlanta this winter to hand out coats to people sleeping on the streets that you purchased with your own money?

Now you've hit the soft underbelly of Hack the facts. He probably gives some to charity but you touched a deeper problem.

The problem is whatever nerve you touch; he screams the solution of more government and less responsibility for himself.

• Soft economy? Hack says MORE GOVERNMENT!
• Natural business cycles? Hack says MORE GOVERNMENT!
• Medical problems? Hack says MORE GOVERNMENT!
• People lie about their income and can't pay the mortgage? Hack says MORE GOVERNMENT!

etc. etc.

I admire people like you (I remember your first post about Pam) and what you do.

If a leftest can make the homeless EVERYBODY'S problem, then they've really made them NOBODY'S problem.

What Hack and the gang like to do it scream "Do something Mr. Government" instead of Hey, Fayette countians, let's solve this problem ourselves.

Remember Mellisa Segers?

Hack unlike you, I know raising taxes is not the answer. The answer is lifting up people needing a helping hand not just a hand out. Help them get a job and a GED, help them send their children to college.

Come down off your high horse Hack, come on out and get your hands and car dirty.

Good advice for all of us. But it's sooo much easier to palm it off to Washington.

Speaking of helping our local folk, does anyone know when the charity (for non insured) hospice/medical center is opening on 54?

plate. Others just quietly give because their reward is not in others knowing what they have done. You made a thoughtless shotgun statement about "black people" not taking responsibility. You need not admit that it was a thoughtless thing to say. You need not admit that saying people are homeless because they "choose" to be is a stupid thing to say. You don't have to see the similarities in these two approaches to dealing with real people. I wouldn't expect you to see anything wrong with it. That is how you are programed.

Your loss.

Kevin "Hack" King

Like always when someone calls you to the curb you have no answers.

You’re Response:

(Well, well, well, well um, um you made thoughtless statements toward black people and Denise hates homeless rats.)

Hack:

Some look away when the plate comes by or pretend they put money in it and others drop that $1 bill in and try to convince everyone they actually put the $100 in

Other say it’s up to the government to solve these problems, just throw more money at it.

Still others try to make a difference one person at a time.

Which one would you be?

You sit and complain about homeless people and Vets not getting the help that they need and then bash the very people that are trying to help if their not a Democrat.

You just keep sitting there bashing away.

Meanwhile I will continue doing as much as I can for the homeless and Vets.

Wulfee the chicken that’s always looking for that pat on the back clang clang.

First of all: I am Kevin King. Who are you?
Second: You said this:

"Good luck trying to convince a black person that BLT is wrong. The hate whitey sermons are very popular."

Am I a "black person?"

"Why would a black person want to stand up and take responsibility for their situation when they are taught by the Rev. Wright to blame it off on whitey?"

Am I a "black person?"

Now, Mr. reviser, if you had said "the congregation of Trinity" or "those that profess BLT", you would have a point. But YOU DID NOT.

Now, finally, if you'd like to get together with me and have a friendly talk about adopting the child of a drug addict; a child who was in foster care (AKA a burden to society); I'll gladly talk to you about what we do on a daily basis. I'll talk to you about getting my bro off of the street and keeping him off. But, I'm not reeling from guilt from the effects of policies I support. I believe in my heart that economic policies I support would not lead to the HUGE class divide we are seeing. I believe you may have a wee bit of guilt for the votes you have cast that have helped our national and international reputation be dragged through the mud.

Bottom line? If you take your ideological shotgun and type

"Good luck trying to convince a black person that BLT is wrong."

Don't be surprised if a "black person" takes offense.

Oh, and I'm always serious about face to faces. It's much harder to be nasty to someone with a real face and a name; think of me like a homeless person that you actually know. You wouldn't talk about my stench due to the lack of toilet facilities, would you?

Kevin "Hack" King

You knew who I was talking about I didn’t need to clarify it.

You just wanted to puff out your chest and scream racist.

For your information I have been helping for fifteen years, long before G W B became president. I believe Bill Clinton was the president at that time.

Good luck using that failed policy guilt speech. That dog won’t hunt.

Who am I ?

(Typing slowly) Wulfman

I know it makes you sick to your stomach that a white non Democrat cares about the homeless and Vets.

Thanks for the unfriendly invitation to meet face to face and discuss your family I must respectfully decline.

I don’t recall asking you anything about your family. I thought we were discussing things we were doing to help homeless people and Vets. In Atlanta.

What does international reputation have to do with homeless women and children in Atlanta? Did I miss something?

Well even though you have tried your very best to make me feel guilty and convince me that my helping the homeless is not what a white non Democrat should be doing.

You have failed.

So I think we should agree to disagree, you won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. Really nothing left to say.

Wulfman

You knew who I was talking about I didn’t need to clarify it.

Yes, Wulf. You were talking to the Trinity Baptist members who read the Citizen on line

You just wanted to puff out your chest and scream racist.

For someone who dared question my reading comprehension, please link back to where I called you "racist." (you have those three fingers pointing back at you?)

For your information I have been helping for fifteen years, long before G W B became president. I believe Bill Clinton was the president at that time.

Clank clank

Good luck using that failed policy guilt speech. That dog won’t hunt.

Who am I ?

(Typing slowly) Wulfman

I know it makes you sick to your stomach that a white non Democrat cares about the homeless and Vets.

Not at all; just wish your guys would support the VA Bill

Thanks for the unfriendly invitation to meet face to face and discuss your family I must respectfully decline.

Thanks for finally being respectful

I don’t recall asking you anything about your family. I thought we were discussing things we were doing to help homeless people and Vets. In Atlanta.

Let me see... going into ATL and helping homeless; adopting a parentless child.... Both seem pretty awesome to me.

What does international reputation have to do with homeless women and children in Atlanta? Did I miss something?

Both dragged through the mud. Hey, I didn't mention torture meetings in the White House

Well even though you have tried your very best to make me feel guilty and convince me that my helping the homeless is not what a white non Democrat should be doing.

Reading comp: When did I say that?

You have failed.

Many times over, I have

So I think we should agree to disagree, you won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. Really nothing left to say.

Deal. Finally, we agree

Wulfman
Kevin "Hack" King

Thanks for sharing the love of Christ, I know I do some things on my own. Our church does things listed on SBC and gabaptist website but we also do other things that are not listed. The heart of Christ cares about people and think they have value.

Thanks for caring Wulf.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

There is a scene at the end of Schindler's List where Oskar Schindler is given a ring from the 1,200 Jews he bought from extermination. The ring is inscribed in Hebrew with a phrase that translates, "Whoever saves one life, saves the world."

"There will be generations because of what you did," to which Schindler responds, "I didn't do enough....”

Thanks for reminding us about what's really important in life.

(Just put Hackee on mute. He never admits that he twists and perverts others' words. Anything that you say -- or don't say -- will be used against you. He's passed initiation into the $niffle$ Gang.)

No thanks needed,

It’s never enough I just do what I can.

I will never forget the day Pam and her three children moved into their home.They were so proud to finally have a home not just a place to stay.

Our family and employees were all there. Just seeing Pam and her family that happy was more thanks than I deserved. Our family has been blessed to have Pam and her children in our lives she is a very special young lady, she never gave up her dream of having a home for her children.

Yeah, there were a few tears of joy shed that day. I can tell you seeing this old wulfman with sweat running down his face was a pretty ugly sight. It had to be sweat because wulfs don’t cry.

I guess I should have called one of the TV stations so I could have gotten some good press for our company and myself.

Dang, I guess I will need to hold my pennies up higher when I drop them in the plate so everyone notices next time.

Wulfee the chicken that’s always looking for that pat on the back clang clang.

Hack, I don't think they realize the damage they are doing to themselves. People see these hypoChristians constantly attacking one candidate and then see Democrats taking the high road and think "Gee, which group do I want to be associated with?" Can you remember the last time one of the extremists here said something positive about McCain?

Conservatism in America is fading...it won't completely die (darn!) but the pendulum is definitely swinging away from their toxic beliefs. Many conservatives have yet to realize this, and continue to play the game from the 2004 playbook

___________
Diagnosing Denise

Since I know you are one in the same. How goes it?

I have been amazed at the "we hate your candidates more than we hate ours" crowd. Remember when the "moral majority" was actually swooning over Giuliani? Then they saw what the rest of the country's conservatives thought of him. They then tried to wrestle with Romney's Mormonism, because at least he was currently talking like a conservative. Then the national republican party handed them McCain. Ohhh boy! I don't mind being called "hard core liberal" by people who say Bush isn't a conservative and McCain is too liberal.

Our local republicans are very unique (those that will at least claim their party). They see us as two boats getting further and further apart. They KNOW that you and I are drifting hopelessly left. But then, they look down, and see that their anchor has been out of the water for seven plus years now! rut rooo! Maybe they are drifting right, away from even their national party. But how can we know who is moving? This might help:

Pennsylvania has just set a record for new registered voters; the record numbers are:

1) total number of democrats and
2) Number of Republicans who have SWITCHED their party affiliation

North Carolina has just seen a RECORD in new registered voters for a presidential primary. The record? DEMOCRATIC registered voters.

The US Armed Forces in 2000 supported repubs over dems 77% to 23% (USA Today)

Today, that support for all political offices is 59% republican and 40% democrat.

For the office of president, RON PAUL and BARACK OBAMA still lead ALL other candidates, even John McSame, in presidential campaign donations.

USA Today reported that independent groups have spent the following to date:
Pro democrat: $14.5 million
Pro republican: $726,000
Anti dem: $1.6 million
Anti repub: $471,000

So, who do you think is drifting, Sniff ld buddy? I've got an idea.

Kevin "Hack" King

thanks for posting those statistics. Very interesting indeed.

I saw Martha Raddatz's ABC interview recently where she spoke with several soldiers, over in Iraq, who would be voting Democrat in November. It was inspiring to see those soldiers speak so honestly about the war, their daily struggles, and their desire for a new direction in Iraq, and in the U.S.

This is just liberal media coverage- you knock Fox because they try to be fair on both sides. So, you watch the liberal channels that talk so good about your boy.

If he's President, I will pray for him- the bible instructs us to do that. Hack do you pray for President George W. Bush?

BTW- my relatives that live in N.C. say they have seen through Obama and they are voting Republican. They said they are sick of the BLT and Obama not cutting ties with BLT.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

"Many Voting for Clinton to Boost GOP"

Wanted to keep Clinton in the race to expose more about Obama, whom he sees as more "fluff than substance."

"I'm not buying into all the Obama-mania, is the main reason I did it," he said. "A lot of these people don't know a thing about this guy and they're crazy about him. And I thought that maybe keeping Hillary alive will just shed some more light on the guy."

"Republican Votes Skew Democrat Primaries"

"Grand Obama Party"

Is there a secret “YAF for Obama” movement? Are McCarthyites going gaga for Barack?

Why wait to vote against Hillary Clinton in November when you can do it now?

"Can GOP Voters Spoil the Dem Race?"

"Operation Chaos"

Re-registering as a "dummocrat" -- Now, THAT would be hard to do!

I do not doubt for a second that Republicans like you will do anything Rush Limbaugh the drug addicted, three times divorced draft dodger says do. However, I HOPE you are smart enough to know that those silly enough to heed that call did so in OPEN PRIMARIES. Pennsylvania is a CLOSED primary. GOP defectors have been extensively interviewed. The interesting answers they give are that they no longer feel like the party represents them. Oh, and Denise, I don't think they are giving money to the Obama and Hillary campaign because they don't support Obama or Hillary.

I have to ask again, Denise. Because you want to vilify abortion and have THE GOVERNMENT make it illegal, HAVE YOU BEEN PARTY TO AN ABORTION? Have you had one, supported one, paid for one? I haven't, but I also think this is not government or any one else's business. If you want to criminalize such women and the act as "murder," will you boldly say whether you are such a murderous criminal or not?

Kevin "Hack" King

What risk? Do I make you shake in your boots?

“Remember when the ‘moral majority’ was actually swooning over Giuliani?” No, I don’t. Who is the “moral majority” and where can I find them? And I haven’t talked to anyone who “wrestled with Romney’s Mormonism” – his conservative principles, yes; his religion, no. The Mormons that I know are moral, patriotic, decent people. I don’t know any of FLDS kind. I remember many of those who endorsed him were not Mormons. The stir over his religion seemed to be mainly media-driven. Remember Anna Nicole’s refrigerator?

Since you were about to swoon over all of those Republicans registering as Dems, I thought you needed some fresh air – WHY the Dem surge just might not win the war.

You responded to news articles with personal attacks against Limbaugh and me. How are prescription pain medication addiction, divorce, the Vietnam War, and abortion relevant at all?

“I have to ask again, Denise.” You’re not Whoopi and I’m not on The View or Oprah. And you certainly aren’t Dr. Laura or a priest or pastor. So, I have to say, NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

A Republican like me? I’m a conservative; some Republican politicians are also. You are so arrogant. You have no idea what I do or don’t do. I make up my own mind. RL or you do not tell what to do. I’m not mindless. I have reasons for my decisions, and I’m willing to accept the consequences for my actions.

Does it make you FEEL superior to launch the personal attack on Rush? You have no sins, no weaknesses; you’re perfect? What does his past addiction to pain meds have to do with the election? Have you ever seen someone who began taking PRESCRIBED pain meds become addicted? Have you ever witnessed the withdrawals? Doctors don’t always carefully manage the meds and addiction can’t be avoided sometimes. Have you ever walked with someone through withdrawal? It’s not something you easily forget.

Have you ever sorrowed with someone going through divorce? It’s so easy for you to mock others’ pain and failures. Do you have the same disdain for that draft dodger Bill Clinton? I have no idea about Rush’s private life, but it seems that you’ve made it your business.

“Vilify”? Are you David’s mom? You vilify, or defame or slur, people, not ideas. As you yourself said, “Some feel that abortion, though legal, is not moral. Others feel it is murder.” That standard for thee but not for me? That’s called a hypocrite.

I speak up for the rights of pre-born children, those who cannot speak for themselves. Infanticide is illegal. Pedophilia is illegal. Not putting your child in a car seat is illegal. SO?

If it is, as YOU claim, “not government or any one else's business,” then why is it YOUR business to know my personal life? Murder is the intentional taking of a human life; at the moment of conception, there is a living, developing human being. Hacking up the baby, euphemistically called abortion, ends that life, small though it is. Go ahead and complete the logical conclusion.

Why do you want to keep abortion legal for us “murderous criminals”? Why do you want those “murderous criminals” called “doctors” to profit from it? To quote you, that sends me into orbit.

1) If a man with little moral courage and character tells people to skew the democratic process and they attempt this (a number of these people may be contrary to the law in Ohio), all involved are operating, in my opinion, contrary to democracy and, in the case of Ohio, the law.

2) It is an interesting situation when someone utilizes a law to their needs and then attempts to tar and feather others, many times for political hay-making, who would allow them to utilize such law. No more questions on such an ugly subject from me. If you don't see the irony in this, there is no more I can do.

Too bad for us. We had such a good run

Kevin "Hack" King

"a man with little moral courage and character" -- Maybe you're jealous of his success.

But what does Rush's character have to do with your mistaken claim that Republicans, like lemmings, are jumping into the arms of the Dem Party?

"Limbaugh Safe from Voter-Fraud Charges" (The Columbus [Ohio] Dispatch)

When asked whether she has concerns about what Limbaugh did, Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, a Democrat, replied, "I think it's very bad form, but I think most voters are intelligent enough to make their own decisions."

"You can't just make the assumption that someone is lying," said Jennings, a spokesman for Ohio's Democratic Attorney General.

Voters intelligently decided which Dem candidate they'd prefer to win. A Dem president serves Republicans as well as Dems, does he not?

Wasn't there something about election fraud with the 1960 presidential election of JFK, such as in Chicago, where "Mayor Richard Daley's machine was known for delivering whopping Democratic tallies by fair means and foul"? Voter "manipulation" & Dems go together like toast and butter.

_________________________________

Abortion stops a beating heart!

Have you had one, supported one, paid for one? I haven't, but I also think this is not government or any one else's business.

Logic Alert! Exactly how does what any blogger does effect the fact that every abortion stops a beating human heart???

Logic Alert # 2! Err-- IF you really believe it's not any one else's business why are you asking?

Doesn't your own statement mean that it's none of your business?

Not the government's business? I guess you think what Andrea Yates did to her kids (in the privacy of their home) was none of the government's business either?

Hack-you're making it too easy.

Well, I think you got Mr. Hack with his cow sideways in the stall!

He can't go backwards and he can't go forwards.

He don't like torture but he's for the killing of very young children!!

Here is something we like to do in this public forum of comments eternally inscribed on the stone walls of the internets:
Please back this IDIOTIC statement up:

"but he's for the killing of very young children!!"

sigh

Kevin "Hack" King

What a welcome to a new blogger: "IDIOTIC"

Hack-em-Up and Jeffc sent similar greetings to me last year.

Notice that Hack-em-Up didn't say what he's for or against. He re-defines "children" so that he can ease his conscience. Although the pre-born are children, he doesn't bestow that privilege on them until they are born. Before birth they can be hacked up, poisoned, and extracted all but the head, which is stabbed and the brains sucked out.

Hack-em-Up doesn't always back up his statements; he changes the subject or twists the meaning of what you say and resorts to personal insults. That's his method of attack.

(The BOLD type can indicate a link in my posts.)

As to why you weren't received with flowers, hugs, and kisses, I will quote someone wrestling with the consequences of decisions they have made in life:

"If you want to focus on the issues, that's great. But if you lob a "nasty" at me, don't expect me to ignore it. I believe in self-defense."

Kevin "Hack" King

Maybe a counselor could help. Sam addressed SDG and you replied, calling his true statement "idiotic." You do wrestle with the truth.

Denise, I've noticed an uptick in both the number of anti-abortion diatribes and the shrillness of your attacks on the pro-choicers.

It must be getting close to the anniversary of your you-know-what.

___________
Diagnosing Denise

You're 6 weeks late. I was hoping for flowers... roses and, of course, chocolates. Better late than never.

I've changed my mind (a woman's prerogative) about dinner at Ruth's Chris for that juicy filet. I want to make sure that Sean Hannity will be there so that I can get your picture with him. I'll let you know the date.

I can only imagine the look of horror on your boyfriend's face when you told him you were 6 weeks late.
___________
Diagnosing Denise

YOU were 6 weeks late. You are confused. And, yes, my boyfriend expects to go with us to Ruth's Chris. He thinks you're a stalker, but I think you're too old. Much older than Sean and not nearly as handsome!

________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

You strike me as a city boy so this may help and I'll back up the statement above as well.

When you farmed a long time you figure somethings out

Pigs give birth to pigs
Cows give birth to cows
Dogs give birth to dogs

and human beings have other human beings.

"Please back this IDIOTIC statement up:"

You're the idiot that said it! I'll get someone to show me how to search this site tomorrow but you know good and well you have written on here that you feel people should be able to get an abortion.

The doctors piece the arms and legs back together aftwards to make sure they got it all--Human arms and legs mind you.

These folks are human children if they are 5 years old or 5 months old.

You may be flying high for a living, but your morals, in my book, are pretty low.

samtheman on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 4:16pm.

You strike me as a city boy so this may help and I'll back up the statement above as well.

Where am I from, Sam? hint. You can find it if you search this site

When you farmed a long time you figure somethings out

Pigs give birth to pigs
Cows give birth to cows
Dogs give birth to dogs

and human beings have other human beings.

Ummmmm.... I'm somewhat speechless

"Please back this IDIOTIC statement up:"

You're the idiot that said it! I'll get someone to show me how to search this site tomorrow but you know good and well you have written on here that you feel people should be able to get an abortion.

This is a softball I could hit out of the park using your leg quarter as a bat, but I won't. I'll just say:
-Please define the "said it" in the "You're the idiot that said it"
-Please do learn how to search these here pages
-I'm not aware of our practice of aborting young children, or my support of such a practice.

The doctors piece the arms and legs back together aftwards to make sure they got it all--Human arms and legs mind you.

These folks are human children if they are 5 years old or 5 months old.
Huh? What? We're aborting 5 month old babies and I'm in support of that?

You may be flying high for a living, but your morals, in my book, are pretty low.

You obviously don't actually know me. If you did, you'd know I fly very low, and it is illegal to fly while high. You would probably not pass the blood screening portion of the aviation physical. Good luck with that.

Cheers, and thanks for the smiles in the middle of tax prep

Kevin "Hack" King

ps: I'd be curious to know how you feel about folks who have actually had abortions. Care to comment?

Notice that Hackin' Up Babies doesn't address the humanity of the pre-born. He pretends that you're saying that he believes in aborting "young children" -- "5 month old babies" -- post-natally. Sick sense of humor.

He never specifies his position on pre-born children. The birthing process magically transforms "it" into a human child. If "it" happens to survive an abortion, then his candidate Obama doesn't believe that that child deserves protection and medical care. "It" should be dropped in a bucket of water or left alone in a supply closet until "it" dies. "It" can be hacked up and sucked out, poisoned, or born except for the head, which is collapsed after "its" brains are sucked out and "its" body -- clumps of cells? -- delivered lifeless.

The pre-born child has the three characteristics of being alive: growth, metabolizing food for energy, and reacting to stimuli. His/her DNA, formed at conception, is distinctly human and also distinct from his/her human parents. The Law of Biogenesis states that each living thing reproduces its own kind. Obviously, human parents can only produce human offspring, and the birthing process adds nothing to the child’s humanity.

You left him "speechless"; that's why he twisted words and didn't respond to your implied question: What is the pre-born if "it" is not human?

(Most commercial jetliners cruise somewhere between 30,000 and 45,000 feet above mean sea level. While the SR-71 Blackbird has achieved an altitude of over 85,000 feet, the A-10 Thunderbolt has a ceiling of 45,000 feet. AF A-10 Hack, from NC and son of the mayor of Goldsboro -- he never says that he isn't a "city boy," pilots for Delta and is a T-38 instructor pilot at Vance Air Force Base, OK. The T-38 Talon is a high-altitude, supersonic jet trainer, with a ceiling above 55,000 ft. "It is illegal to fly while high" means that he's not supposed to fly while intoxicated. The Great Pretender will twist whatever you say.)

(See links in BOLD type.)

________________________

“How can the ‘Dream’ survive if we murder the children? Every aborted baby is like a slave in the womb of his or her mother. The mother decides his or her fate.” - Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King

The Great Pretender will twist whatever you say

Is that when he's pretending to be a kickboxer (via the video link in your post)

or

when he's pretending not to understand that a 5 year child has the identical DNA (nothing genetically added and thus is the same person) that they had 5 days after conception?

A child has the same DNA from conception to death and the same heart that began to beat on the 22nd day of development -- before a mother even knows that she's "with child" -- and will continue to beat throughout all of his or her lifetime.

I won't comment on kickboxing because I don't like torture. Seems bad for the brain and other vital parts.

Abortion stops a beating heart!

Why don't you investigate the difference between the words "dependency" and "viability" and get back to us?

A zygote is not a person in much the same way an acorn is not an oak. "potential" does not equate to "actual".

p.s. why did you ditch the "pentapenguin" ID?
___________
Diagnosing Denise

If you're trying to be a private investigator, you'd better keep your day job--opps guess you didn't do well there either.

p.s. why did you ditch the "pentapenguin" ID?

Why did you ditch the Basmati ID opps--guess you got canned from that job as well.

I'm not the penguin or the Sleuth.

Oak trees aren't people either.

Penta-great comment about the daughters! LOL

Hey! Long time no see, my friend. I see you are still up to your vile personal attacks, as always. I've been very busy lately, so I haven't had time to post much, but I do still read here when I can.

p.s. why did you ditch the "pentapenguin" ID?

Unlike you, Man Without Honor™ (as you loved referring to Army Major), I have only one username as per the rules (not several like you have), I have posted under only one username as per the rules, and I have never been banned and re-registered as per the rules (unlike you -- hey, for the first time that I know of, Cal had to make a dedicated blog post telling everybody you were banned, so you should feel honored to have that infamous distinction. ).

Also I've never broken the "No plagiarism" rule and plagiarized like you have.

If you constantly push the envelope with sexual or smutty innuendoes

Your linked image here certainly qualified. Or what about your disgusting "song" with Mrs. Tug in it?

"You never were much for following rules though, were you?" You're one evil dude, Banned Basmati.

(Ack! Who's taking bets that now I'm going to get accused of being Denise with all the links? )

Penty! How is my alltime favorite intellectual chumbucket doing?

Enjoying college? I guess you're out on spring break.

Want to meet me and the Hackster for breakfast tomorrow? We can debate the issues of the day while feasting on bacon and uh,"potential chickens". Hell, I'll even buy, given that you're a poor student (in more ways than one!)

In any event it's good to see your nasty self-centered egotistical intellectually bankrupt corrupt soul around here again! Don't be a stranger!
___________
Diagnosing Denise

Hey Banned Basmati or am I talking to Mein $cream? Sorry can't tell which. Anyway, I love learning and debating as you know. And I personally prefer "Easter Holiday" instead of the PC "Spring Break." (And besides, "Spring Break" just has a nasty sound to it -- I always think of a broken arm during this pleasant time of year. )

I'll even buy, given that you're a poor student

Hmm...I didn't think Food Stamps were accepted at J Christopher's? Or is it your unemployment check from the Imperial Federal Government you are using?

Unfortunately can't do much debating around here when you are so insulting to everybody here. And please, "H*ll" isn't that just another bannable offense? Ah...it's not long before you get the Ban Stick again I'm afraid.

I see you still have gender confusion issues since you're confusing me with Main Stream. That's probably one of the main reasons you've never had a date with a woman. But then, you never were much interested in women, were you? (shhh, I know, I know, "don't ask, don't tell"!)

I'm sorry you're "afraid" to meet me and Hack. I figured you alone out of allllll the conservative bloggers here might...just MIGHT...have the courage to stand up for your convictions in person.

You disappoint me, son.
(I bet you heard that quite often growing up! )

___________
Diagnosing Denise

That's probably one of the main reasons you've never had a date with a woman.

Do you have any lovely daughters my age? Oh sorry, I forgot, you and the Mrs. love abortions too much. A great loss for me.

But then, you never were much interested in women, were you? (shhh, I know, I know, "don't ask, don't tell"!)

Hmm...if I were homosexual, I'd take that as a homophobic, hate filled smear. But then again, it's okay for you liberals to be evil. Just like you call Herman Cain "grubby." If I called a black gentleman (trust me, you aren't one ) that name I'd be rightfully called a racist. But you can do it with immunity. Hypocrite.

I'm sorry you're "afraid" to meet me and Hack.

Nope, not at all. I met Hack before and he's a very nice guy in person. I don't feel like I would need a bodyguard around him since he doesn't seem mentally unstable. But anyways thank you for the kind invitation, but really, I can't attend because I have classes all day from 9am to 9pm. (Maybe even one of them is in the Ann Coulter School of Public Policy: How to Bash a Blasted Lib 101 ) And besides, it wouldn't be a fair fight...for you and Hack against just me. Maybe if Yardman and susieq (a.k.a Judith Moore) were there too it might be a fair fight.

You disappoint me, son.
(I bet you heard that quite often growing up!)

Been called a lot worse by a lot better than you.

Anyways, if you are good with computers I might could give you a job since I need some subcontractors. Let me know after you hit the unemployment office this afternoon.

Cheers!

Your pal,
pentapenguin

I didn't mean to imply that your lack of success with the opposite sex made you a homosexual. I'm simply saying you need to get over your obvious man-crush on me. I'm happily married and monogamous.

I laughed at your claim that any criticism of grubby Herman Cain had to be "racist" in nature. You earn that sobriquet "intellectual chumbucket" every day, my friend.

I'm sure you have been called "a lot worse" in your life. I suspect you made quite a few new friends during your six month incarceration. Did they get your ankle bracelet adjusted yet?

Glad you have an interest in computers, and I hope you are learning many new things at DeVry.

Regards,
Sniffles
___________
Diagnosing Denise

with one of your "snifflespawn"? Maybe he can help you push your golf cart back to "stately sniffles manor," if it hasn't been foreclosed on. Take him to Brusters -- you need the sweetening. I'm holding out for Ruth's Chris and roses.

I recall that Penta met Hack & Hutch -- much nicer company. Who else did he meet?

How's your feminine side doing? Definitely moody!

I do miss TruthSleuth, except for his attitude toward River.

My Snifflespawn are all doing very well, thank you for asking.

I trust the two Connerspawn you opted to allow to live are doing well?
___________
Diagnosing Denise

I don't have any fish. My pets are cats that have adopted me. They'd eat fish.

How is a toddler any less of a person than an adult? By your "reasoning" he should be deprived of his right to life because of his dependency.

The pre-born child is viable [from Latin vīta, life] until the abortionist ends his or her life (gender is established at conception). An acorn is an oak, just at a different stage of development, and will GROW into a seedling and then a mature tree as it continues to develop.

Just who is “Sniffles”?

Abortion stops a beating heart!

Once again you conveniently confuse the concept of "viability" and "dependency". A toddler is dependent upon an adult for his growth, but he/she is NOT dependent upon an adult for basic life support systems such as breathing and digestion. In that regard the toddler is viable.

A fetus, on the other hand, is both dependent and non-viable. "Viability" is established around 22-24 weeks. The courts have held that non-viable fetuses have no right of "personhood", which is why you never got to claim the fetus you aborted on your tax return. Something like 85-90% of all abortions take place in the first trimester.

But I suspect you knew that.
___________
Diagnosing Denise

Some feel that abortion, though legal, is not moral. Others feel it is murder. You, very carelessly, stated that I "willingly support hacking up babies" or something similar. That is a very inaccurate, flippant, and careless thing to say that made me wish my hands were close to your neck (at the time). How can someone who feels so strongly about abortion stand arm in arm with "do as I say not as I have done" people.

If you throw such careless insults at me, a person who has had no role in any abortion ever, you had best inventory all of your "allies" to make sure they don't have blood on their hands. Otherwise, it is wise to keep such comments about others in your thoughts.

Kevin "Hack" King

You support a party and a candidate who would not even work to protect the life of a child who survives an abortion or one who's almost fully delivered but then a "doctor" stabs the base of her skull and sucks her brains out while holding her kicking legs. Her collapsed skull then slips out of her mother and her body that was so full of life just minutes before is now lifeless. Would you like to see the funeral pictures of such a child? The mother came to realize too late what she had done to her BABY.

When demanding to know my private medical history, my personal life, do you ever consider that "it is wise" to keep such snoopy inquiries "in your thoughts" if you have nothing more important to fill up your mind? That's much better than stirring up a feeding frenzy among the sharks.

Those who crucified Christ had blood on their hands, but He prayed, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." And He did.

How dare a person vilify those who support rights that THEY HAVE EXERCISED? You might mention that the party you speak of as baby murderers ONLY support partial birth abortion if that birth will KILL THE MOTHER. Yes, I would rather both mother and child not die. This, of course, is an extremely rare situation, but imagine a world where THE LAW REQUIRES doctors watch helplessly as a mother and infant die in front of them.

Kevin "Hack" King

Ask Dr. Alveda King, the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. You can find her email HERE.

“How can the ‘Dream’ survive if we murder the children? Every aborted baby is like a slave in the womb of his or her mother. The mother decides his or her fate.”

-------------------

Partial-birth abortion [dilation and extraction (D&X) or intact D&E] is a procedure defined as one in which the person performing the abortion "deliberately and intentionally vaginally delivers a living fetus [medical term for the baby from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth] until, in the case of a head-first presentation, the entire fetal head is outside the body of the mother, or, in the case of breech presentation, any part of the fetal trunk past the navel is outside the body of the mother."

It is performed so that the abortionist doesn't have to dismember the baby inside the womb (D&E -- dilation & evacuation). The body can then be sold, thereby making the abortion business even more profitable. Also, it assures that the baby is dead when delivered. If he or she survives a saline abortion, then the baby must be given medical care.

Dr. Curtis Cook, an ob/gyn perinatologist with the West Michigan Perinatal and Genetic Diagnostic Center and an assistant clinical professor at Michigan State University College of Human Medicine, said that partial-birth abortion is "never necessary to preserve the life or the fertility of the mother, and may in fact threaten her health or well-being or future fertility. In my practice, I see these rare, unusual cases that come to most generalists' offices once in a lifetime -- they all come into our office. We see these every day.... The presence of fetal disabilities or fetal anomalies are not a reason to have a termination of pregnancy to preserve the life of the mother -- they do not threaten the life of the mother in any way... [and] where these rare instances do occur, they do not require the death of the baby or the fetus prior to the completion of the delivery."

“There's no demonstration anywhere in any medical literature or any expert's testimony that this procedure in any way enhances or protects a woman's health versus any other procedure.

“And in fact there is evidence that it potentially endangers a woman's health not only during that pregnancy but potentially future fertility with the massive over dilatation of the cervix that's involved in this procedure.”

"There are and always have been safer techniques for partial birth abortion since it was first described by Dr. McMahon in 1989 and Dr. Haskell in 1992. The usual and customary (and previously studied) method of delivery at this gestation is the medical induction of labor [which is NOT fatal to the mother] using either intravaginal or intramuscular medications to cause contractions and expulsion of the baby."

Testimony by Curtis Cook, M.D., House of Representatives Committee on the Judiciary

Please provide PROOF that "doctors watch helplessly as a mother and infant die in front of them."

Would you like to see the funeral pictures of a child who died by the partial-birth brain extraction method at the hands of Tiller the baby killer?

____________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Denise. Because you want to vilify abortion

I think abortion, in and of itself, does it's own vilification.

Add abortion to that issues list that Obama refers to and I as a white middle class whitey dude gets bitter about.

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined

As we've discussed before, I am a very conservative person. I do believe that I have no rights over other people's lives within the law. For some strange reason, SDG told me I "enthusiasctically support hacking up babies." What a dumb four letter-word thing to say. And he did so in some type of defense for Denise. Now, if someone is going to try and paint me with that brush, they had best make sure that no "murderers" are among them. I never wanted to "go there," but how dare anyone claim I "enthusiastically support hacking up babies." Between us, Git, it is very good that no one has ever said that to my face. I'm not sure where the situation would end up. Kind of like when Sniffy swiped at yourkids; ugly territory. Anyhow,

Barack is pro second amendment. If you google and listen to his whole clip from PA, and his subsequent statments, I believe you will see a man of integrity and candor.

Cheers,

1) Show me where "record numbers of democratic registered voters" and record numbers of republicans switching parties" has been liberally twisted? The head of the RNC has a statement that he "plans to get these voters back." He realizes they have left and the GOP is trying to bring them back for the general election. Bad news, BPR.

BPR, are your family republicans or democrats? So what is your point in saying that they are McSaming?

Kevin "Hack" King

Greetings from Kathmandu, Nepal. Everyone here is interested in the race too. Almost everyone knows about and is following the Obama/Clinton race with great interest. People are concerned with the standing of the US and hope that Obama can turn it around. I have been very surprised at the near unanimity of opinion that the US has abandoned its principles and many people are saddened and fearful that they can't rely on the US to stand up for them. I know the Bush people won't like to hear it or that they won't care but it is striking here in this little tiny country between huge India and China.

Go to sleep Hack. Its 2:33 in the afternoon here, what's your excuse?

I too am amazed at how many people ask me for Obama t-shirts in Brazil and England. The sentiments you relay are consistent; fear of torture, sadness at our seeming ideological drift; sense of a military aggressiveness by us. They never attack Americans; it seems its more of "what America means" that they worry about. I believe the entire planet is looking for a change in policy and attitude from us. That is alot of pressure for Obama and Clinton. Wait until our anti-Obama friends sink their teeth into the Pennsylvania guns and church story.

It's going to kill Obama's campaign just like The Rev. Wright story did. Instead of calling him Messiah, they'll start calling him Lazarus!!!!

Cheers, and hurry home!

Kevin "Hack" King

Senator Barack Obama is not a Muslim, contrary to invidious rumors. But he belongs to a Christian church whose doctrine casts Jesus Christ as a “black messiah” and blacks as “the chosen people”. At best, this is a radically different kind of Christianity than most Americans acknowledge; at worst it is an ethnocentric heresy.

The Christ message is that we are all God’s children.
After decades of portraying Christians as ‘white’ – it is not unreasonable to understand how a group of Americans would develop a theocracy that depicts Christians as ‘black’. When traveling throughout the world one observes Jesus portrayed as Asian, Indian etc. When we realize that there is neither Jew nor Greek, etc., as stated in the Bible – we will be ready to accept one another as brothers and sisters under one God, our father. The BLT is not anti- white. . .just a questionable way of making Christians of another color feel connected to the Christ message.

What played out last week on America’s television screens was a clash of two irreconcilable cultures, the posture of “black liberation theology” and the mainstream American understanding of Christianity. Obama, who presented himself as a unifying figure, now seems rather the living embodiment of the clash.

The fear of these two cultures moving on beyond a ‘clash’ is what is feared by ‘some’ whites and some blacks who actually fear harmony among Americans. In the light of the world situation, Americans need to unite – and not accept the notion of ‘irreconcilable cultures’.

The strange dialogue that you posted is not viewed as important to most Americans – except as a political ploy to point out a weakness of a certain candidate. One of the ‘freedoms’ that most Americans would and have died to protect – is the ‘freedom’ of religion. What is dangerous in this country is the effort by certain citizens to demand that all Americans worship as they do. The Pilgrims left England in order to practice their version of Christianity. We have many ‘religions’ represented in our country – but we all live under the Constitution – and the Constitution gives all of us the right to worship as we please. The BLT is not a threat to anyone in this country.

Since Christianity taught the concept of divine election to the Gentiles, every recalcitrant tribe in Christendom has rebelled against Christian universalism, insisting that it is the “Chosen People” of God - French, English, Russian, Germans and even (through the peculiar doctrine of Mormonism) certain Americans. America remains the only really Christian country in the industrial world, precisely because it transcends ethnicity. One finds ethnocentricity only in odd corners of its religious life; one of these is African-American.

You must be very young or had a very poor history teacher.
When the early slaves (Africans) accepted Christianity and the teachings of the Bible, (Moses) – they were welcomed – but were segregated in the Christian church. African American churches were founded because of the segregation of the Christian church. They (Africans) related to the traditions celebrated in the segregated church rather than the Euro-centric offerings of the ‘white’ church. The early Methodists in the north – if they were black – were relegated to the balcony – and could not sit with the ‘white’ congregants. Not all of these ‘blacks’ were servants – but were not considered equal enough to sit on the main floor. The Quakers, as a group, did not practice this. Many individuals in the ‘white’ church did not support segregation – and were very active in the abolitionist movement,

During the black-power heyday of the late 1960s, after the murder of the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr, the mentors of Wright decided that blacks were the Chosen People. James Cone, the most prominent theologian in the “black liberation” school, teaches that Jesus Christ himself is black.

Psychologically speaking, it is not difficult to understand the need for blacks to feel empowered by being ‘chosen’ rather than being ‘victims’. Now lets be realistic. A blond, blue-eyed person would not be found as a ‘native’ of the area where Jesus was born. The Asians portray Jesus with slant eyes; those in Europe portray him as looking like ‘them’; and Africans (some) portray him as looking like Africans. Jesus was born to Mary in Bethlehem – and more than likely looked as the Bible has described the inhabitants of the region – and our scholars have verified that their appearance was not too different from the way native inhabitants of the region appear today.

Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.

Now why wouldn't anyone consider this an ignorant, racist statement? Blacks as despised? Is this what they teach in your church? Blacks are to be ‘transformed from oppressed slaves into liberating servants?
Most African Americans see the above statement made by this writer as ‘a code statement’ for incorporating the racist theory of ‘blacks’ being forever in a subservient role to ‘whites’. This is seen as a ‘White Empowering Theocracy’. Most white churches no longer preach such rubbish – but there are still Christians who cannot let go of this feeling of entitlement/privilege. They have been carefully taught – and may not even realize that they have this ‘thought process’ in their conscious. Blacks and other American minorities also have this ‘racist’ attitude toward whites – that all whites operate with a feeling of empowerment and entitlement. Wake up America!! We have an enemy that won’t be defeated unless we are united!! Radicals abroad and at home are using this weakness in the implementation of the words of our Constitution to separate us! We aren’t all Americans unless we actually treat our American citizens as we want to be treated. Statements like “transformed from oppressed slaves into liberating servants’ are very telling. We have a lot of work to do – black and white Americans – in order to truly respect one another based on the content of our character rather than the color of our skin!

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

Hogwash!! I was raised in the ‘black’ church, mentored by a great grandfather and grandfather who were both ministers of the ‘black’ church. My grandfather received his degree in Theology from The University of Southern California in 1939 (USC)
Discuss your OPINIONS of what the Bible says with your pastors. They are your mentors. You are not authorities on a theory that most ‘black’ congregants have not heard of. Most people reading this, if they’re interested, will investigate for themselves – and not take OUR word for what BLT stands for. One thing I know. Very little time is spent in the ‘black’ church talking about ‘white’ people. After discussing and rejoicing in the ‘word’, (the Bible) - sermons are aimed at uplifting the congregants to go out into the world, reflect God in their actions, and love their neighbor as themselves.
There is no greater love than the unconditional love that an oppressed people have for a government that was an oppressor. There are no greater patriots in this country than the veterans of WWII who, after fighting for the US, came home to a segregated United States. .. .and still loved their country unconditionally.
This election is showing that Americans are moving away from ignorant racist and sexist thinking in the election process. Both democratic candidates are exceptional human beings with great leadership skills. McCain is an outstanding war hero – and has an excellent record on ‘social justice’ issues. America is on the right track! God continues to bless America.

Muddle: I hope you enjoy your celebration!! I finished one of the papers you suggested. If you’re so inclined, I would like to discuss this with you. I have never conducted a ‘workshop’ for whites only – and find this very divisive. Were you invited to attend such a workshop? The workshops that I conducted involved representatives from all of the ethnic groups that compose the American citizenry. Diversity in America is not now and never should have been a ‘black’ /’white’ thing! However, in certain sections of the country – possibly in the 60’s, this may have been seen as a strategy to get the ‘discussion’ started. ???????

I'll be happy to carry on a discussion with you on these issues any time. I trust your basic orientation and respect your opinions.

Great! I did not agree with the setting of 'whites' only for this presentation. However, what about the presentation did you find incorrect; etc.? (This question does not mean that I found all of the assertions correct - just asked as a starting point for discussion.)

Let's take it to a new blog. Do you want to do the honors of initiating?

And I need to revisit the material.

Are we talking about Shakti Butler, et al?

Sorry, thought I had answered your question. Yes - Butler. Let me know when you're ready. I'll start the 'new' blog. Can Diversity Training help implement a meaningful discussion regarding race relations in the United States?

This is the church statement as you can see it has his church name on it. This is what Obama believes:

click church statement

My church does not anywhere state white power, we have all race of people that come and they are welcomed- love has no color-

I have never said all black churches are BLT, there are some that teach the bible, there are some BLT in all churches, and there are others that teach the bible. BLT is not church.

You can agree or disagree my resources are reliable ones. Again you can agree or disagree, but it's on the church page where Obama attends.

BTW- the black churces I have attended did not teach BLT- I would have left if they did as I would in a white church or a "Human Race" church where I go.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

The BLT is only 40 years old. It is known by only a minute portion of the black religious community. It has done nothing over the past 40 years to threaten the 'white' community until this election when 'snippets' were taken from Rev. Wrights speech. What portion of this theory is threatening to 'white' people? Why?

FROM THE TRINITY CHURCH WEBSITE

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.

It's hard for me to believe all the things that I have put up and you don't see a problem with BLT?

I suggest you read and listen to what BLT really is.

BLT is not Christian.

Read this also:
Wright's Black Liberation Theology By Anthony B. Bradley

What is Black liberation theology anyway? Barrack Obama's
former pastor, Jeremiah Wright catapulted black liberation
theology onto a national stage, when America discovered
Trinity United Church of Christ. Understanding the
background of the movement might give better clarity into
Wright's recent vitriolic preaching. A clear definition of
Black theology was first given formulation in 1969 by the
National Committee of Black Church Men in the midst of the
civil-rights movement:

"Black theology is a theology of black liberation. It seeks
to plumb the black condition in the light of God's
revelation in Jesus Christ, so that the black community can
see that the gospel is commensurate with the achievements
of black humanity. Black theology is a theology of
'blackness.' It is the affirmation of black humanity that
emancipates black people from White racism, thus providing
authentic freedom for both White and black people. It
affirms the humanity of White people in that it says 'No'
to the encroachment of White oppression."

In the 1960s, Black churches began to focus their attention
beyond helping Blacks cope with national racial
discrimination particularly in urban areas.

The notion of "Blackness" is not merely a reference to skin
color, but rather is a symbol of oppression that can be
applied to all persons of color who have a history of
oppression (except Whites, of course). So in this sense, as
Wright notes, "Jesus was a poor black man" because he lived
in oppression at the hands of "rich White people." The
overall emphasis of Black liberation theology is the Black
struggle for liberation from various forms of "White
racism" and oppression.

James Cone, the chief architect of black liberation
theology in his book A Black Theology of Liberation (1970),
develops Black theology as a system. In this new
formulation, Christian theology is a theology of liberation
-- "a rational study of the being of God in the world in
light of the existential situation of an oppressed
community, relating the forces of liberation to the essence
of the gospel, which is Jesus Christ," writes Cone. Black
consciousness and the Black experience of oppression orient
black liberation theology -- i.e., one of victimization
from White oppression.

One of the tasks of Black theology, says Cone, is to
analyze the nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ in light
of the experience of oppressed Blacks. For Cone, no
theology is Christian theology unless it arises from
oppressed communities and interprets Jesus' work as that of
liberation. Christian theology is understood in terms of
systemic and structural relationships between two main
groups: victims (the oppressed) and victimizers
(oppressors). In Cone's context, writing in the late 1960s
and early 1970s, the great event of Christ's liberation was
freeing African Americans from the centuries-old tyranny of
White racism and White oppression.

American White theology, which Cone never clearly defines,
is charged with having failed to help Blacks in the
struggle for liberation. Black theology exists because
"White religionists" failed to relate the gospel of Jesus
to the pain of being Black in a White racist society.

For Black theologians White Americans do not have the
ability to recognize the humanity in persons of color,
Blacks need their own theology to affirm their identity in
terms of a reality that is anti-Black -- Blackness stands
for all victims of White oppression. "White theology," when
formed in isolation from the Black experience, becomes a
theology of White oppressors, serving as divine sanction
from criminal acts committed against Blacks. Cone argues
that even those White theologians who try to connect
theology to Black suffering rarely utter a word that is
relevant to the Black experience in America. White theology
is not Christian theology at all. There is but one guiding
principle of Black theology: an unqualified commitment to
the Black community as that community seeks to define its
existence in the light of God's liberating work in the
world.

As such, Black theology is a survival theology because it
helps Blacks navigate White dominance in American culture.
In Cone's view, Whites consider Blacks animals, outside of
the realm of humanity, and attempted to destroy Black
identity through racial assimilation and integration
programs -- as if Blacks have no legitimate existence apart
from Whiteness. Black theology is the theological
expression of a people deprived of social and political
power. God is not the God of White religion but the God of
Black existence. In Cone's understanding, truth is not
objective but subjective -- a personal experience of the
Ultimate in the midst of degradation.

The echoes of Cone's theology bled through, the now
infamous, anti-Hilary excerpt by Rev. Wright. Clinton is
among the oppressing class ("rich White people") and is
incapable of understanding oppression ("ain't never been
called a n-gg-r") but Jesus knows what it was like because
he was "a poor black man" oppressed by "rich White people."
While black liberation theology is not main stream in most
black churches, many pastors in Wright's generation are
burdened by Cone's categories which laid the foundation for
many to embrace Marxism and a distorted self-image of
perpetual "victim" which we be explored in the next two
columns.

Anthony B. Bradley is a research fellow at the Acton
Institute, and assistant professor of theology at Covenant
Theological Seminary in St. Louis. His PhD dissertation is
titled, "Victimology in Black Liberation Theology."

Davids Mom - James Cone is not going by God' Word in the Bible.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

Shall we agree to disagree? I don't see where this 'theology' is a threat to you and yours. It certainly isn't to me and mine. Do you read what you post?

And likewise, I'm sure that David Duke doesn't feel threatened by the hateful theology of the KKK.

----------------------------------------------------------
Barack Obama is the personification of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The Perverse Worship of a man

"Why are you doing this?" I have read, with varying degrees of interest the posts on different takes on religion. At various times, BPR... you have stated (or implied) that both Christian Science and BLT are "wrong". Is, let's say, Presbyterianism wrong? Is Methodism wrong? Is Lutheranism wrong? What makes one particular interpretation of a belief in God wrong or right? I mean, I can see where one could say that...um...animism or Buddhism or Wiccan is "wrong", but what criteria are used to determine what is wrong or right concerning Christian beliefs? Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

GRAPE NUTS might help.

Surely you know something about orthodoxy, cults, counterfeits?

"False [counterfeit] apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." (II Cor. 11)

Which of the following are you asking about?

Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)
Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA)
Reformed Church in the United States (RCUS)
Bible Presbyterian Church (BPC)
Presbyterian Reformed Church (PRC)
Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC)
Evangelical Reformed Presbyterian Church (ERPC), et al

Which Lutheran church?

"Lutherans believe that the Bible, as a divinely inspired book, is the source of all revealed divine knowledge. Scripture alone (Sola scriptura) is the formal principle of the faith, the final authority for all matters of faith and doctrine."

Why did you put wrong in quotation marks?

What criteria do you use "to determine what is wrong or right concerning Christian beliefs"?

.................

You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.
[Logic dictates that there are teachers of unsound (fallacious) doctrine.]

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age…. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

But avoid foolish [stupid] controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless [futile]. Warn a divisive [factious] person [a heretical sectarian and cause of divisions] once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped [perverted and corrupted] and sinful [continuing in sin]; he is self-condemned. (Titus 2 & 3)

you both have been very helpful with your comments. Denise, I was particularly taken by your citing from Titus. I try very hard to avoid being a divisive person, though at times it is difficult in this particular forum and I am sure, at times, I fall woefully short.There are plenty here much more fractious. I will confess that I am much less able to quote Bible passages than others. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Shall be a "christiany" conservative* womanish person who, at times, calls her/itself a doctor, calls former presidents "the peanut farmer," won't answer the "have you ever aborted a baby from your womb" question even though she wants this subject brought to the public forum in her avatar, and feels that it is foolish to give back to the thousands and thousands of homeless who smell like "warf rats" and are actually homeless because they "choose" to be. Yardman, didn't you read that description of the Judge of the Bible? Of course, you would think God was Obama himself with the attention the entire world has given him, but alas, no. BPR and the christiany Denise sit in a unique position to cast judgement. People will begin turning on CS ers and BLT sandwiches any moment now.

Kevin "Hack" King

For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do — living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation, and they heap abuse on you.

But they will have to give account to Him who is ready to judge the living [the quick] and the dead. (1 Peter 4)

"In the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure [the standard] you use, it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7:2)

____________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

"Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves."

That is the most ridiculous question.

You do know how to read don't you and comprehend what you are reading? Oh, you want to justify it to your liking.

Your still upset that I did not like your little book.

Your friend is not too fond of me, and I bothered her with my answer to her.

I put down your boy your voting for, and your a Democrat and would vote for that person no matter what.

Plus, you said when you got to pearly gates you were going to ask for a transfer.

So, ask your Presbyterian pastor about it.

Sorry, I didn't buy this and answer you the way you wanted.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

but I thought Yard's question was a valid one, as you have placed yourself in the judge a faith seat many a post. Anyway, I know you are big on truth and consistency. Soooo, if you ask someone if they know how to read and comprehend what they are reading, it will help if you know how to write. Otherwise, we are left unsure of what we have just read.

You wrote:

"I put down your boy your voting for, and your a Democrat and would vote for that person no matter what."

Can you see my point? It's okay if you can't. But if i right lick thes, i mabee cant critisize others reeding.

Kevin "Hack" King

Good line about being sensitive. Yes, I feel for people, I refuse to let my heart to get hard as a rock. You can tell when someone is like that. Being sensitive does not mean you can't stand up for the truth.

You don't care about me, why are you responding? If you don't care about me you don't care what I say or put up.

I'm standing for the truth regardless what your little friends say.

You don't bother me about SBC I don't have to answer to you only to God. Plus did you bother to read what is the most important thing?

Little upset I put some more things up about your boy Obama. Obama should have thought before talking in Penn.

You upset because I don't agree with you- I find it funny to get so upset when someone presents the truth. BTW that's not putting down- and it's true all over this site that you and Yardman and others would vote for Democrat no matter what.

I'm not worried about what you say your so angry about the Obama posts I put up. And poor Yardman you defend him, can't he defend himself? Anyone can comprehend what was said and heard about Obama, Yardman and others act like you can't-

I will stand up for truth. BLT is not Christian.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

You have pulled "I don't like you" out of thin air." Now you pull "I am angry" out of thin air. I have never addressed SBC. Wrong guy. It's okay. I've made that mistake before.

BPR: My guy is doing fantastically well! He is leading in delegates. Every country I travel to people are inspired by him. I have lost every Obama 08 button I have to Brits and Brazilians. I'm tickled... um... well, not pink, but close.

I do get irritated by christiany folks who are so quick to throw stones at "all homeless" and "all blacks." But, alas, their atonement is not my problem. As to why I respond to you?

1) I do care about you, BPR, as I've said many, many times before.

2) To quote the great BPR

"Being sensitive does not mean you can't stand up for the truth."

Cheers, from happy ole

"Kevin "Hack" King

and thanks for "proving my point". Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I proved my point, glad you went back and read. If you didn't I still proved my point by my response to you. It's sad when something is wrong and people still go along with it. It's shows your character.

Have a nice evening.

_______________________________
We Will Stand