No you didn't prove your point Beeps. You cut and run. You lacked the courage to answer simple questions:

1. Do Presbyterians go to Heaven?
2. Do Methodists go to Heaven?

Simple "yes" or "no" questions.

You were oh-so-brave when you criticized religions where you thought you wouldn't get any flak from, BLT and Christian Scientists.

Where is your oh-so-brave Southern Baptist faith now?

You are almost a caricature of Southern Baptist, spewing your constant criticism of faiths that differ from your own. You brag about your brand of inerrancy, yet I noticed you didn't respond to my "Is Muddle going to Hell for eating Lobster?"

It's real easy for you...and people like you... to voice your opinion. A pity you lack the character to stand up for them when challenged.

Just a typical Southern Baptist, I guess.

Go hide and wait for Den$e!

I don't hide from bullies.

If you really want answers, see "Yard, talking to yourself?" BPR has answered many questions; she doesn't want to play with BasNazi any more. If you want to know what Southern Baptists believe, go to their website or ask Judith Q (but I think you already did). Why don't you ask Git since you admit that he's "a credit to his Southern Baptist faith," although the "trailer park" variety?

...................

But avoid foolish [stupid] controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless [futile]. Warn a divisive [factious] person [a heretical sectarian and cause of divisions] once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You may be sure that such a man is warped [perverted and corrupted] and sinful [continuing in sin]; he is self-condemned. (Titus 3)

Don't you know that the only way to know what a faith believes is to go to their website? You can't get an accurate idea from actually attending their service or talking to them. Heck, if you tried to decipher what one believes without using the internet, you'd have a hard time convincing folks that Barack is a Muslim who hates his white half. Oh, and we'd stop "giving back" to the "less fortunate." The internets, gentlemen! That's the answer!

Kevin "Hack" King

"I don't hide...."

Wonderful! Then I take it I can count on you to make our next in-person blogger chat fest at Starbucks?

You can show everyone just how smart you think you are in real life!

Snif, are you reneging on your offer? Just a cup of coffee isn't the same!

"Real life"? Evidently you were showing everyone how smart you are with your "Henry Fonda-esque speech." SPELL-binding, I'm sure.

You are so funny. I get a kick out of reading your posts.

Wow, already wanting attention? Okay, I will give you a little.

Since, Yardman already knows all the answers to everything, why would he need my answer. Plus, I made his little friend upset over it, that is why he wrote that.

I suggest you ask your Pastor the same questions- or do you have a Pastor?

I put up things to read and hear, but you just don't want to comphrend anything and support your boy Obama.

Listen real carefully, did you read that I said I did not care about denominations, the important thing is to accept God's forgiveness and realize we have sinned and we need a Savior, God is in control of our lives. That is the most important thing. I have written that, oh I guess you skip over those parts. Mu opinion, you have yours.

Wow, just saying what kind of church I go to - gets you in an uproar.
You never talk about your church. Why is that?

BLT and CS they are not Christian teachings- if you would read and comprehend. Can you do that. Do you know what a Christian is?

Talk about hiding you won"t meet me to talk without your buddies.

I don't care what you say about SBC or what anyone says- I know who's opinion to value and who's not to value. You are just showing the real Sniffles by your judging remarks.

If I upset one of you little buddies- here comes the little gang of buddies - I don't care, I have been over that a long time.

I leave you with this I still think you have value.

Oh, I must put this on here, this is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.

Have a nice evening.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

If I understand you correctly, the only people going to heaven must be Jewish!
That is what they all were at the last supper, I think.
They were also pretty dark brown in color, I think.
Don't you know that to argue such foolishness as you do is what causes all of the church schisms that have occurred for the last 2000 years. And about 7,000 more before Christ.

Whatever happened to all of the old Roman and Greek Gods? Did they ever exist? Did those people who worshiped them go to hell when they died?
I suppose you prefer to ignore religion prior to Jesus, and maybe even prior to Moses.

I think you need to read and listen to everything I have written.

Have a good evening.

______________________________
We Will Stand

Sniffles thinks I'm hiding behind you. That is so funny. He's write the most funny things. Sometimes I never hear from him when I prove my point- he only writes to do some insulting and judging. Since he has become Democrat buddies with you know all of them, he tries to act real brave- won't meet me unless he's with them.

I told him to ask his pastor about BLT and CS since he does not agree with me. I am entitled to my opinion.

You don't see me behind you do you?

______________________________
We Will Stand

Just listen to that HACK, HACK, $nif, $nif, Screeeeech... Enough to make you look for some earplugs.

I looked and you aren't here. Guess $nif's wrong about that, too.

Yes I read what I post. What kind of question is that? People can always try and justify anything to make it right. I still disagree- it is wrong. I have my opinion and you have yours.

Have a nice evening.

______________________________
We Will Stand

Christian or Cult??????

Christian Science
Christian or Cult?*
The movement known as Christian Science is a religion "emphasizing divine healing as practiced by Jesus Christ." It is officially known as The Church of Christ, Scientist (CCS) (with headquarters in Boston, Massachusetts), founded in 1879 by the much married Mary Baker Glover Patterson Eddy (1821-1910). It is one of the more sophisticated modern cults, attracting many intellectuals. Estimated membership was about 350,000 in the 1930s with approximately 2,500 branch churches, societies, and college organizations in more than 50 countries worldwide. Estimates suggest that membership has fallen to well under 100,000 at the present time. While the branches are democratic in government, they all conform to the rules laid down in Mary Baker Eddy's Manual of The Mother Church (1895); church affairs are now overseen by a self-perpetuating board of five people.

Under the leadership of Board of Directors Chairman Virginia Harris, the CCS has embarked on an aggressive, multi-faceted marketing program designed to mainstream itself and to attract new members. For example, the CCS is finding new ways to promote itself in light of our society's current interest in self-awareness, spirituality, mind/body connections, alternative medicine, and women's issues. The CCS's weekly magazine has been redesigned to include quotes from New-Age proponent Oprah Winfrey. Church representatives are also turning up at medical conferences and other places.

Mrs. Eddy was chronically sick growing up, with many ailments including paralysis, hysteria, seizures and convulsions. At 22, she married her first of three husbands, George Glover, who died within 6 months from yellow fever. Following Glover's death, she began to be involved in mesmerism (hypnosis) and the occult practices of spiritualism and clairvoyance (Ruth Tucker, Another Gospel, p. 152). Still ill, she married Daniel Patterson in 1853, a dentist and homeopathic practitioner. It was during this time she met mental healer Phineas P. Quimby (1802-1866), whose influence would shape her belief of Christian Science. Quimby believed that illness and disease could be cured through positive thoughts and healthy attitudes, by changing one's beliefs about the illness. She claimed that Quimby cured her; she suddenly improved, but later the symptoms returned (Another Gospel, p. 155).

After Quimby's death in 1866, Mrs. Eddy determined to carry on his work. She had developed a "psychic dependence" on Quimby, drawing on his spiritual presence, claiming even visitations by his apparition. Eddy "reached the scientific certainty that all causation rests with the Mind, and that every effect is a mental phenomena." Eddy took Quimby's teachings one step further, claiming that sickness, death, and even our physical bodies do not exist, but are only imagined. Based on this absurdity, Mary Baker Eddy formulated her unique interpretations of Scripture upon which Christian Science was founded (and recorded in Eddy's 1875 book, Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures. [HJB] (In 2001, the ten millionth copy of Science and Health was sold). In essence, Christian Science is a revival of ancient Pantheism. [Eddy later published 16 other books, including Retrospection and Introspection (1891), which tells of her own experience of discovering, practicing, and teaching the "science" of Christian healing.] [The CCS recently announced plans to build (at a cost of $25 million) the Mary Baker Eddy Library for the Betterment of Humanity. Scheduled to open in 2002 in Boston, the library will house over 500,000 unpublished documents and artifacts related to Mrs. Eddy. It will also allow the CCS to secure another 45 years of copyright protection for the writings under new U.S. copyright laws that take effect at the end of 2002.]

The event that Mrs. Eddy claimed as the inauguration of Christian Science occurred in February of 1866. She claimed to have had a near fatal fall on icy pavement, but was instantly healed when "the healing Truth dawned upon my senses," and the divine healing ministry was born (Miscellaneous Writings, p. 24; Science and Health, p. 107). Testimony from her attending physician as well as other correspondence from Mrs. Eddy at the time strongly dispute Mrs. Eddy's "official" version of those events (Anthony Hoekema, Christian Science, pp. 12-13).

Healing became a major distinctive of Christian Science. According to Eddy Baker, the central fact of the Bible is the superiority of spiritual over physical power. The spiritual superiority is evident in other ways than healing. Telepathy is practiced in Christian Science treatment, and may be considered a form of psychic healing. Christian Science claims to prove through the healing of disease and other difficulties that the understanding of God and his spiritual creation is as effective now as it was in Jesus' time. Its adherents, therefore, rely on "divine law" in times of sickness instead of resorting to medical and other material means. Christian Scientists do not use doctors, medicine, or immunizations. Christian Science Practitioners are used to " help people through the false reality of illness." Instead, proper prayer and training are employed to battle the "non-reality" of illness. (The right of Christian Science parents to withhold medical treatment from their children has many times been challenged in court.)

During the formative stages, the church saw many rivalries, scandals, and dissident movements. One of the dissidents was Emma Hopkins, who as an independent Christian Science leader, taught Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, who later founded the Unity School of Christianity (another "mind-science" cult). Because Mrs. Eddy wanted to spread Christian Science, especially to the upper class, she increased her control over all aspects of the movement and would not tolerate any disloyalty (Georgine Milmine, The Life of Mary Baker G. Eddy, p. 234 ff).

Publications of the Christian Science Publishing Society include the Christian Science Quarterly, containing Bible lessons for daily study; The Christian Science Journal, a monthly magazine; Christian Science Sentinel, a weekly magazine; The Christian Science Monitor, a daily newspaper; and The Herald of Christian Science. In the 1980s, the group expanded into other media, producing both radio and television news programming. Their venture into cable-television operations was ended in 1992, when it was discovered "that the church had secretly transferred $46.5 million from endowments and pension funds to help cover huge losses on the 'Monitor Channel,' which had lost over $325 million" (Chicago Tribune, 1/27/93, p. 2). [Additionally, there were losses of $36 million and the resulting termination of World Monitor, a newspaper begun in 1988. The Christian Science Monitor is said to be losing $13 million annually (Martin Gardner, The Healing Revelations of Mary Baker Eddy, p. 218).]

Instead of preachers (the CCS has no ordained clergy), Christian Science's Sunday services consist mainly of prescribed readings from the Bible, followed by interpretive readings from Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures (which Eddy thought was divinely inspired -- "I should blush to write of Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures as I have, were it of human origin and I apart from God its author; but [since] I was only a scribe echoing the harmonies of heaven in Divine Metaphysics, I cannot be super-modest of the Christian Science Textbook."). Eddy's "Scientific Statement of Being" (read every week from every Christian Science pulpit) begins with, "There is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter," and ends with, "Therefore, man is not material; he is spiritual." Wednesday meetings include testimonies of healing from the congregation. Readers, both men and women, are elected from the membership to conduct the services. Practitioners, also both men and women, devote full time to the work of "spiritual healing."

Mrs. Eddy presented Christian Science as a scientific system of healing based upon spiritual laws God (allegedly) had revealed to her. She taught these laws must be followed -- without deviation -- if a believer wishes to practice Christian Science with consistent success. She taught Christian Science cannot be mixed with any other doctrine or spiritual healing system, and, thereby, it is incompatible with medicine. Eddy also believed in "Malicious Animal Magnetism" (MAM), which is negative mental energy or power, on the level of black magic. "Reading Rooms" are local Christian Science libraries where members go to read Eddy's works to aid their spiritual evolvement.

Christian Scientists call themselves Christians, but their beliefs deviate from Biblical Christianity on nearly every central Doctrine. Below are the highlights of what Christian Scientists believe concerning their source of authority, the Godhead, Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Resurrection, sin and salvation, heaven and hell, man's destiny, and disease and death:

1. Source of Authority. Mary Baker Eddy claimed the Bible was her "only textbook" and "only authority." Yet she also said the Bible has thousands of errors -- 30,000 in the Old Testament and 300,000 in the New Testament. Christian Scientists believe that Mrs. Eddy's discovery of Divine Science is the "final revelation" from God. They claim Science and Health is divinely inspired (even though it has been proven to contain numerous plagiarisms and revisions). -- Science and Health is the "first book" which has been "uncontaminated by human hypothesis" (The First Church of Christ, Scientist and Miscellany, p. 115; Science and Health, pp. 99, 139, 456-457). [HJB] One is only supposed to read the Bible if they have Eddy's "key" in hand, so as to find out what a passage means. The implication is that God couldn't make Himself plain, but has to have Mary Baker Eddy interpret what He says. With this in mind, the world was, in effect, left to grope in darkness until Mrs. Eddy came on the scene.

2. Language. Christian Scientists have given Bible terms allegorical, metaphysical definitions that are completely different from normal usage. Everything is spiritualized to the point that the physical no longer exists. New meanings have also been assigned to many traditional theological doctrines. (For example: "Adam was not an actual person who was created by God and fell into sin. 'Adam' means error; a falsity; the belief in 'original sin,' sickness, and death; evil; the opposite of good.") [HJB]

3. Trinity. Christian Science clearly repudiates the Trinitarian Godhead: "The theory of three persons in one God (that is, a personal Trinity or Tri-unity) suggests polytheism, rather than the one ever-present I Am" (Science and Health, p. 256). Instead, "Life, Truth, and Love constitutes the triune Person called God ... God the Father-Mother; Christ the spiritual idea of sonship; divine Science or the Holy Comforter" (Science and Health, p. 331-332). Christian Science teaches that the Biblical concept of the Trinity suggests "heathen gods" (Science and Health, p. 152). God is thus viewed as an impersonal "Divine Principle," a conception of one's mind (Science and Health, pp. 361, 469). On page 465 in another of Mrs. Eddy's "authoritative" books, entitled Miscellaneous Writings, she wrote: "God is incorporeal, divine, supreme, infinite, mind, spirit, soul, principle, life, truth, love," but devoid of any personality. [HJB] [To the contrary, the Bible teaches that God is a triune, personal, transcendent Being who created "the world and all things in it" (Act 17:24). He is not a pantheistic all-in-all. He is holy and just, as well as love. God created and governs the universe, including man (Acts 17:24-27).]

4. Jesus Christ. Christian Science denies that the incarnation of Christ was the fullness of deity dwelling in human flesh, denies the perfection of the man Jesus, and attempts to explain away the historical death and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ (Science and Health, pp. 336, 29, 332, 53, 398, 313, 593; Miscellaneous Writings, p. 201) Christian Science believes that Mary's conception of Jesus was spiritual -- on pages 332 and 347 of Science and Health, the virgin birth of Christ is described and explained: "Jesus was the offspring of Mary's self-conscious communion with God. ... Mary's conception of him was spiritual." Christian Science believes that the names "Jesus" and "Christ" do not refer to the same person -- that Jesus is the human man and Christ is the "divine idea" (i.e., "dualism"). They teach that the spiritual (good) cannot dwell in material bodies because they are evil; thus Jesus could not have been both God and man. [To the contrary, the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is not the divine idea of God but was God uniquely manifested in the flesh, truly God and truly man, one divine Person with two indivisible natures, who is the only Savior and the only truth and Lord (John 1:1-3,14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:6-7; John 14:6).] Christian Science believes that Jesus was not God and the only way to heaven, but only the "wayshower" (cf. Jn. 20:31; I Jn. 4:2,3).

Christian Science not only denies that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, it also denies that Jesus is one Person with two natures -- fully God and fully man. Christian Science presents Jesus Christ in terms of a Gnostic duality: "The spiritual Christ was infallible: Jesus as material manhood was not Christ'' (Miscellaneous Writings, p. 84). "Christ as the true spiritual ideal, is the ideal of God now and forever ..." (Science and Health, p. 361). "The Christ is incorporeal, spiritual ..." while, "The corporeal [physical] man Jesus was human only (Science and Health, p 332). Yet "matter is mortal error … matter is the unreal and temporal" (Miscellaneous Writings, p. 21). So what Christian Science actually concludes is that the physical humanity of Jesus was an illusion, ''as it seemed to mortal view" (Science and Health, p. 315).

Concerning the blood atonement of Jesus Christ: "The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed upon 'the accursed tree,' than when it was flowing in his veins ..." (Science and Health, p. 25). Christian Science teaches that the death of Jesus Christ for sin was a "man-made" theory, and that Jesus was alive in the tomb, demonstrating the "power of Spirit to overrule mortal, material sense" (Science and Health, p. 44). Eddy states, "Christ was not crucified ... Jesus, being the man who possessed the Christ consciousness, was the one who went to the cross and who appeared to die." Thus, according to the theology of Christian Science, the Bible only appears to say that Jesus died on the cross and His body was laid in the tomb; it must instead be understood that Jesus actually never died, but was rather in the tomb denying death's reality!

5. Holy Spirit. Christian Science denies that the Holy Spirit is a personal being. It teaches that the Holy Spirit is Christian Science. -- "This Comforter I understand to be Divine Science" (Science and Health, p. 55). It is the unfolding of the thoughts and infinite mind of God (pp. 502-503). [cf. Jn. 16:13-14] Thus, God, the Holy Spirit, cannot indwell a person (Science and Health, p. 336).

6. The Resurrection. It is obvious that if Jesus never physically died on the cross to atone for sins that mankind cannot commit (Science and Health, pp. 45-46), then the resurrection must also have a unique meaning in Christian Science. Eddy explains, "When Jesus reproduced his body after its burial, he revealed the myth or material falsity of evil; its powerlessness to destroy good and the omnipotence of the Mind that knows this: he also showed forth the error of nothingness of supposed life in matter, and the great somethingness of the good we possess, which is of Spirit, and immortal" (Miscellaneous Writings, p. 201). Jesus resurrection was thus the manifestation of the error of evil. He demonstrated that sin and death are illusions and that if one wishes to rid themselves of these illusions, they only need to deny their reality.

7. Sin. Christian Science denies the existence of all matter, including man's physical body. They say that man is "incapable of sin, sickness, and death." They claim sin, sickness, and death are the "effects of error," thereby denying the reality of sin. [HJB] Bottom line, to Christian Science, there is no sin (Science and Health, p. 447). This is a consistent deduction and fundamental principle of the Christian Science system -- namely, God is all and God is good, and since the real man has never departed from his original state of perfection, he is not in need of salvation. He is saved now and reposing in the bosom of the Father. He has always been saved -- that is, as God's idea of the expression of the mind, man is forever held in the divine consciousness. And since sin and evil have no reality, all ideas of sin and evil are illusions. They are the product of the mortal mind. Hence, it is a sense of sin which is sinful because of the illusory product of the mortal mind. They say that man's real problem is the belief of sin, and that "Christ came to destroy the belief of sin." [Eddy writes in Miscellaneous Writings in the question and answer section: "If there is no sin, why did Jesus come to save sinners?" She answers, "Jesus came to seek and to save such as believe in the reality of the unreal; to save them from this false belief; that they might lay hold of eternal Life ..." (p. 63). In other words, Jesus came to save mankind from the false belief that sin is real! Jesus saving work was to exemplify the fact that death is unreal, that sin is only an illusion or false belief, and that to deny its existence is the ultimate task of each person.]

8. Salvation. Since Christian Scientists do not believe that sin is real, they, therefore, see no need for salvation in Jesus Christ. Notwithstanding, Christian Scientists still teach a salvation based on works -- and contrary to even their own teachings, a salvation through victory over suffering and temptation. [HJB]

9. Hell. Christian Science denies the existence of hell and eternal punishment, and, therefore, there is no devil (Science and Health, p. 469). Hell is defined as "mortal belief; error; lust; remorse; hatred; revenge; sin; sickness; death." They believe that hell is a self-imposed "mental anguish," emanating from the guilt of one's imagined sin. [HJB]

10. Man's Destiny. Christian Science teaches that since God is all good and nothing that is real exists outside God, then sin, sickness, and death are mortal error or an illusion. Christ, as the Truth, therefore came to set man free from these false beliefs by His teachings and example (Science and Health, pp. 473, 475, 108). Christian Science denies the penal, substitutionary atonement of Christ, saying, ''The material blood of Jesus was no more efficacious to cleanse from sin when it was shed on 'the accursed tree,' than when it was flowing in his veins as he went daily about His Father's business" (Science and Health, p.25). "Jesus taught the way of Life by demonstration. There is but one way to heaven, harmony, and Christ in Divine Science shows us this way" (Science and Health, p. 242). ''Universal salvation rests on progression and probation … No final judgment awaits mortals …" (Science and Health, p. 291)

11. Disease and Death. Christian Scientists claim that since organic disease does not exist, "the cause of all so-called disease is mental" [i.e., 'the belief in sin is thereby the cause of it'], "a mistaken belief" (Science and Health, p. 377). They say that since our physical bodies do not exist, disease and death are only illusions (Science and Health, pp. 348,386). [To the contrary, the Bible teaches that sin, sickness, and evil are not an illusion, but a result of man’s willful choice to rebel against a Holy God, and death (both physical and the spiritual eternal separation from God) is the result of sin (Rom. 3:10, 23; 5:12-14; 1 John 1:8-10).] They believe they have restored Christ's principles of divine healing through their practices of mental healing; i.e., the healing performed by Christian Science involves helping a person to deny the reality of his illness, and thereby, any failure to heal is due to a person's inability to overcome his belief. Mary Baker Eddy claimed to have this power of healing (called Divine Science), though she never provided any tangible proof of it. [HJB] [Whereas the Christian Science approach to healing may help psychosomatic illnesses, it has been scientifically demonstrated that it is not effective with real illness. In fact, studies comparing the cumulative death rates of practicing Christian Scientists with control groups have shown significantly higher death rates among the Christian Scientists (Journal of American Medical Association, September 22/29, 1989, pp 1657-58; and Morbidity Weekly Report, August 23, 1991, pp. 579-582).]

12. The "Gospel" of Christian Science. Jesus, who possessed the Christ consciousness as do all men to a lesser extent, went to the cross, not to bring about forgiveness of sin, for sin is an illusion, but rather to demonstrate that death is an illusion. On the morning of the resurrection, the supposed physical body of Jesus was reproduced in its original illusionary form, for all matter is illusion, and thereby demonstrated to mankind that all could do the same by denying the reality of sin and death.

Jesus' "seeming" death on the cross was not intended to pay for our sins, but to prove the unreality of sin, disease, and death. The Bible is full of mistakes. Jesus' words were recorded by "dull disciples ... in a decaying language," and must be spiritually interpreted through Christian Science.

To put it another way: "Jesus was laid down as the result of apparent death, into a fictitious tomb, in an unreal body, to make an unnecessary atonement for sins that had never been a reality and had been committed in an imaginary body, and that He saves from non-existing evil those headed toward an imaginary hell, the false fancy of an erroneous Mortal Mind" (J.K. VanBaalen, The Chaos of Cults).

13. Conclusion. Christian Science offers some real enticements -- a "spiritually scientific" method for healing, victory over life's circumstances, and guaranteed salvation. All one has to do to receive these blessings is to study Eddy's writings and obey them to the letter. She was God's messenger to this age and her writings are considered infallible. Just obey her teaching, and learn to think as she thought, and you will be victorious.

The physical dangers of Christian Science are obvious. Since they are taught that learning about their bodies is spiritually harmful, Christian Scientists are ill equipped to understand the symptoms of illness. They often suffer needlessly from treatable ailments and neglect life-threatening conditions that could be cured if treated in their early stages.

CS does not go along with the teachings of the bible.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

Another point of view. All religions have their detractors. Some of what has been printed here is so untrue - but someone believes it. Some philosophers ridiculed the Christian Science practice - some scientists found it enlightening. Einstein was in all probability an agnostic - but in his search for Truth - he studied Christian Science while in New York and New Jersey.

See below:

Few people today realize how much Albert Einstein studied Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures, supported its conclusions, and admired its author, Mary Baker Eddy. Dr. Einstein was known to visit Christian Science churches and Reading Rooms in the New York and New Jersey areas. There have been numerous anecdotes and quotes preserved over the years from individuals who have had knowledge of, or contact with Dr. Einstein, in connection with Christian Science.

"...the librarian of the New York Reading Room which Dr. Einstein frequented, that upon his leaving the Reading Room one day he commented, 'You people don't know what you have in that book (meaning Science and Health).'"

"In an affidavit by Mary Spaulding, wife of the famous violinist Alfred Spaulding, was preserved a conversation she had with Albert Einstein in the New York City Reading Room on 42nd Street. Dr. Einstein's high regard for Science and Health is reflected in the following: 'Science and Health is beyond this generation's understanding. It is the pure science. And, to think that a woman knew this over eighty years ago!'"

"A [librarian] in the [Christian Science Reading Room] in Princeton, New Jersey told me that Dr. Einstein was one of the most frequent visitors to the Reading Room. He would come in and spend an hour or two just reading Science and Health. One day as he was leaving the Reading Room, he stopped at the librarian's desk, and said: 'If everyone realized what is in that book (meaning Science and Health), you would not have enough room anywhere to accommodate the people who would be clamoring for it.'" - Reminiscences of Elizabeth Earl Jones, from The Healer: The Healing Work of Mary Baker Eddy, p. 189.

From my knowledge, Christian Scientists have a choice in using medical or metaphysical means for healing. Christian Scientists study the Bible daily - and their knowledge incorporates more than 'belief' - but understanding the words of the Bible and the practice of Jesus Christ. Mrs. Eddy states that one can only 'demonstrate' what is 'understood'. One can make up ones own mind - by just reading the first chapter of Science and Health. (Prayer) Christian Science is called a 'science' because it is demonstrable. This demonstration is not based on the 'belief' of practicing Christian Scientists - but on their understanding.

It is possible to educate yourself right out of your common sense. And this is especially true of many theologians and professors of religion.

Liberal theologians tend to go after any flashy new trend that happens by--like a trout after a lure. Having severed their biblical moorings on the one hand, rejected the philosopher's concern for rigorous, careful and clear argumentation, and, more often than not, absorbed a variety of postmodern relativism, they proceed as though their task is to create a theology for our time rather than faithfully reconstruct a systemized account of biblical teaching. And so they wind up with a confused mishmash that is often a fashionable and leftist social or political agenda dressed up in a cleric's collar.

Or, consider a striking historic example. The first half of the 20th century was dominated by a school of thought known as logical positivism. Among other things, the positivists urged that a statement is meaningful only what it affirms can be verified either through empirical observation or through logical reasoning. But they noted that theological language--statements purporting to descdribe God--are not verifiable in either of these ways. And so "God talk" was deemed "cognitively meaningless"--nonsense.

Happily, logical positivism has gone the way of the dodo, partly because people woke up to the fact that it is self-contradictory. Consider: the statement, "Statements are meaningful only if verifiable either through observation or logic" is not verifiable in either of those ways and so, by its own lights, is a piece of nonsense.

Enter the theologians. Did they say, "Well, talk of God clearly IS meaningful and, therefore, to the devil with your philosophy"? Nope. It began with a bit of hand-wringing. I mean, you spend all those years in education studying theology and you land yourself a prestigious position at Acme Divinity School, and now it appears that everything you have learned is as meaningful as "'Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in thre wabe". So, some of them said, "Yes, theology IS nonsense. But it is IMPORTANT nonsense." And so some of them engaged in a kind of translation project. The statement "God is love" is meaningless as it stands. But what we REALLY mean when we say it is something like, "Love makes the world go round," or, better, "I intend to make love the supreme principle of my life." And the statement, "God raised Christ from the dead"--also meaningless--translated into something like, "Hope springs eternal in the human heart." And so the original theological language, which was condemned by a fashionable but false philosophy, was sanitized and turned into something more to the liking of the modern palate.

Today in many seminaries you'll learn that Christian truth claims must be understood as "contextual." So, for instance, "Jesus is Lord" cannot be understood as a universal statement about the authority of the object of Christian adoration. No, no. Rather, it must be understood to mean something like, "Christians pattern their lives after the example set by Jesus Christ." The language is thus relativised, rendered a bit more amenable to those in a pluralistic society, and, in the process, rendered void of any significant content.

I despise theology in this tradition, and for two reasons. First, it is disingenuous. Look, if the positivists or postmodernists are correct, then Christian theology is, quite simply, a load of crap. And so, to revise that theology to make it conform to either of those perspectives is to offer up a steaming plate of crap, though, perhaps with some bearnaise sauce and accompanied by a chilled glass of chardonnay. Second, as a philosopher trained in the analytic tradition that puts a premium upon holding one's work to rigorous standards of logic and justification, I look at the things these people publish and with which they acquire tenure, and just shake my head. These theologians would not recognize a logically sound argument if it sprang up and bit them in the arse. They say things that are, frankly, logically incoherent or just plain nonsense (e.g., Cone's "Jesus was a black man"), and their colleagues applaud. They should not be applauded. They should be kicked down a flight of stairs.

It is theology in this tradition--sort of the theological counterpart to a structureless free jazz--that makes possible heretical monstrosities such as "Black Liberation Theology," "Feminist Theology" and even, more recently, "Queer Theology." The "theology" part is treated as a wax nose to be reshaped at the whim of the "theologian."

There is hope, however. We have the likes of N.T. Wright, Bishop of Durham, who has gained international attention for his careful scholarship as a New Testament theologian. And, of course, and ironically, a more orthodox theology is articulated and defended these days by not a few academic philosophers. Perhaps the philosophy department will prove to be a kind of ark in which a realist conception of Christian theology is protected and preserved as the seminary is flooded with nonsense.

Just copy the 'hate' statement from the BLT website. Thanks!

Not telling someone, such as an alcoholic or drug addict, the truth is not love.

Sooooooo....when you called Hack's brother a "wharf rat" you were doing so out of LOVE?

Silly me, all this time I thought you were just being judgemental.

then you'll be known as a LIAR.

Over and over and over you repeat that same accusation. Isn't your medication working, $niff?

Where did I or Boortz, whose comments I quoted, mention Hack, his brother, or a vet?

Simile: A figure of speech in which two essentially unlike things are compared, often in a phrase introduced by like or as, as in "smelling like a wharf rat."

If the term "bum" (a lazy or shiftless person, especially one who seeks to live solely by the support of others; a self-indulgent person who spends time avoiding work or other useful activity) was accepted terminology for 1800s welfare/charity administrators, then it's OK with me if Boortz uses it. ("Bum" is the shortened form of "bummer": one who sits on his backside, or as the Brits say, "bum," instead of working. It's also derived from the German Bummler, meaning a loafer or a beggar.)

Here are some of my previous replies to your ridiculous accusation. Try re-reading them (as well as Thomas Sowell's "Stop 'making a difference'"), and I'd suggest you repeat that reading comprehension course. You didn't learn a thing.

$niffy -- Amusing? NOT!

$niffing Bas -- "Vulgarian"?

You likely read my replies to Hack, but try re-reading them.

AF A-10 "Hack" -- Civil?

**Hi, Hack, about veterans**

"Silly" you? As in "so senseless as to be laughable"? Well, $niff, we'll let others judge.

___________________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

What a pinch you find yourself in some times. You loudly and often profess our "christiany" ways and quote Biblical passages for us to associate you with.

You must support the troops, so that we associate you with patriotism.

You must support your ideology of conservative tax cuts no matter what is happening outside of your window (like a war) that might just need paying for.

And in choosing to THINK through your positions of whether to support the tax structure or the veteran, you choose the tax structure. How so? You so callously trampled over ALL HOMELESS, including the quarter that are veterans, JUST LIKE STANLEY "CHIP" SEAY, my brother, to drive home your point that "it's stupid to give back"

THIS IS WHAT YOU SO PROUDLY CHOSE TO DRAG INTO THE BLOGS:

from Denise's post:

"It's not luck, my friends. It's choice. [Now wouldn't you think that liberals would tout economic and school "choice" as loudly as abortion? ] One of the greatest lessons I ever learned was in a book by Og Mandino, entitled "The Greatest Secret in the World." The lesson? Very simple: "Use wisely your power of choice."

That bum sitting on a heating grate, smelling like a wharf rat? He's there by choice. He is there because of the sum total of the choices he has made in his life. This truism is absolutely the hardest thing for some people to accept, especially those who consider themselves to be victims of something or other - victims of discrimination, bad luck, the system, capitalism, whatever. After all, nobody really wants to accept the blame for his or her position in life. Not when it is so much easier to point and say, "Look! He did this to me!" than it is to look into a mirror and say, "You S.O.B.! You did this to me!"

Read the words YOU brought us again:

"That bum sitting on a heating grate, smelling like a wharf rat? He's there by choice. He is there because of the sum total of the choices he has made in his life."

Denise, if I say, "women who blog on The Citizen and profess christian faith are actually insincere blowhards," that would cover you, would it not? That would be an insult to you because you are on The Citizen, you are (most likely) a woman, and you profess a "christiany" faith. Even though I did not say your name.

"That bum sitting on a heating grate, smelling like a wharf rat? He's there by choice." Only an IDIOT would say that Denise; a shot gun statement born out of the necessity to make a political argument, WITH ABSOLUTELY NO REGARD FOR THE STANLEY SEAYS of this country.

I mean every letter of the reply I typed to you back when you posted that thoughtless tripe; more now than ever.

So who is the disingenuous one here? Would you quote your post to my brother's or any other homeless veteran's face? Or would you cowar in your office like your buddy Bill OReilly, when he ventured into this ignorant territory only to be confronted by real human beings with real names who are also "children of God" and "created in His image?"

Kevin "Hack" King

Hack, my friend, your fault lies in attempting to reason with Denise as if she is a normal, rational person. I think by now it is clear to just about everyone on this board that Denise's inappropriate responses are symptomatic of a great deal of mental illness (link).

I am convinced that Denise is a classic case of narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). A quick look at the list of symptoms of NPD almost reads like a history of Denise's postings here.

1. The most prominent symptom of narcissism is how often they contradict themselves. People with NPD do this on a continual basis: they will contradict established facts and often misquote you to yourself. When confronted with their contradiction, they will accuse you of lying.

2. Many people get into arguments with narcissists over their unintentional cruelty to others. Narcissists have an inability to show any form of empathy for their fellow man. This is why Denise is perplexed when people took/take offense to her "wharf rat", "rot in the womb" and "God punishes women for their sins by making it difficult for them to conceive" comments.

3. Somewhat paradoxically, narcissists are extremely sensitive to criticism of their positions, while at the same time extremely critical of the positions of other people. They cannot tolerate the slightest disagreement, choosing to define everything in stark black and white terms. They will not seek compromise, every situation has a "winner" and a "loser".

4. Narcissists suffer from delusions of grandeur. "Doctor Denise". Enough said.

5. Narcissists are inflexible authoritarians. They want to be seen as an authority and, failing that, they want to be associated with authority figures. They cling fanatically to the opinions of people they regard as authority figures (Neal Boortz, Thomas Sowell, Ann Coulter). This gives them 'deniability' when criticized, if they get in trouble over an opinion they've put forth, they'll blame the source. Hence, Denise distances herself from her "wharf rat" commentary.

The best way to approach a narcissistic person like Denise is to treat her like you would a very clever six-year-old. This is the age when "normal children" are grandiose and exhibitionistic, an age when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior. There is a good discussion of six year old behavior vs. adult narcissistic behavior HERE

Mr. Fonda? Maybe Jane? Maybe Cheetah? Happy Birthday!

12 Angry Men... I wonder which one is you? Ummm... intentional cruelty to others.

Or maybe you're the president's son today? Delusions of grandeur... well, maybe not with President Peanut.

I guess you didn't read far enough in the article about yourself, or you would have read that NPD is often a self-confident "Star Quality" personality misused. So, there's HOPE for you to get back on the right track, but check HERE just to be sure.

You think I'm "very clever"? Thank you.

"God punishes women for their sins by making it difficult for them to conceive."

That wouldn't be one of those Hillary-esque moments, would it? I notice that you failed to provide proof of my saying that.

Your loooong CUT-&-PASTE is very similar to Bad PTC's post to $ageless Dollar.

Just a touch of plagiarism bothering you today?

"You better put some ice on that."

Sexual assault... the similarity between your attitude toward women and The First Black President’s is eerie.

“Talk about Courtus Interruptus! Second trial was bizarre. A CIVIL rape trial. Might have been civil sexual assault...I don't recall. A Delta flight attendant was getting a massage. She was laying [sic] face down on a massage table, wearing nothing but a towel over her butt. She told the male masseuse [sic] she was getting a cramp in her butt muscles, would he please massage them. He complied with her request but evidently touched her genitalia and she FREAKED…. What a waste of government resources.”

"Criminal Cases of Massage Sexual Assault"

“Masseur Accused of Inappropriately Touching Customers”

Tennessee law forbids massage therapists from touching the breasts, buttocks or genitalia during a massage. Sexual battery is defined as any sexual contact without the victim’s consent.

“Women Accuse Masseur of Criminal Sexual Conduct”

[Masseur] apparently would start a normal massage, and then work into the inappropriate contact. One woman apparently thought the first time he touched her inappropriately was an accident, but then the criminal sexual conduct escalated.

"Masseur in Abuse Case Gets 3 Years"

“'Sex Offender' Masseur Charged With Inappropriately Touching Customer”

“Masseur Charged with Fondling Young Client in Incident at Salon”

“Masseur's Sexual Battery Victims Sought”

“Masseur Jailed for Sex Crime”

QUESTIONS BAS/SNIF WILL NOT ANSWER

___________________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

girl.

The best way to approach a narcissistic person like Denise is to treat her like you would a very clever six-year-old. This is the age when "normal children" are grandiose and exhibitionistic, an age when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior. There is a good discussion of six year old behavior vs. adult narcissistic behavior

Your sexual advice to sixth grade girls is famous (infamous) on this blog.

That link goes to a story basmati was relaying in regards to a 6th grader's misunderstanding about contracting the Aids virus. From that old post, it sounds as though the child was given misinformation about WHO can actually contract Aids. The point basmati was making was spot on!

And why did you provide this link? What's your point??

I used to think I was pretty good with computers, and I AM pretty good with the hardware, but some of you on this website have the ability to pull up posts from a year ago or longer, and frankly I'm stumped! How do you do that?

I really am curious about that; it's not a rhetorical question. On an aside, I wonder why some of you bother to keep track. My life is not nearly as interesting at the moment as I would like it to be, but it's interesting enough that I don't want to spend time tracking what other bloggers have said over the months.

Maybe I'm just out of touch.

the search engines.

I don't keep track of blogs, but it's hard to forget that memorable post!

I do a lot of research in my work so I'm handy with search engines.

If you don't use a RSS reader, you are missing out on a great time saver. I've cut the time on visiting 10-12 financial websites down to just 5-10 minutes a day with a reader that filters the stories.

Let me know if you want the links for the above.

Yes, I would definitely like that link! I've recently started investing in the stock market (great timing, huh??) and I do seem to be hopping back and forth a lot. Thanks for the tip.

There are a number of free readers available. I'll give you my top three. It's a matter of taste on which you like best.

Google Reader
As with everything they do - it's done with excellence!

Google Reader

Feedreader.com is one I like if you want results stored on your hard drive.

Like the Google product Bloglines is a good on line reader.

Feedrinse is a free program that let you look for (or more importantly exclude) key words from your RSS reader's searching.

10 free useful RSS Tools is just what it says- very useful

I'll try Google Reader first--I tend to use Google a lot anyway.

"HACKING UP Denise"

Shocking! You’re an Islamic terrorist!!!!! May I choose waterboarding rather than being “HACKED UP”? (quivering……)

Even more shocking is discovering that there’s just one brain among all of you libs. I address one of you and another “individual” pipes up with incoherent, repetitious rants.

I realize that you feel that Stephen Colbert is a theologian and model “christianist” and the standard to JUDGE me and others by, even if you have to LIE while doing it. And you feel that, if you tell a LIE often enough, it makes it true. Shades of Hillary there….

YAAAAAAAAAAWN….. I talk about spending cuts (SHOCK!), thriftiness (foreign concept with bureaucrats), as well as tax cuts (J.F.K’s idea, too). See Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) since you don’t remember or didn’t read or didn’t comprehend my previous posts.

YAAAAAAAAAAWN….. “You so callously trampled over ALL HOMELESS….” (Violin playing sad music)

$Hack, maybe you need to get new meds. You’re losing touch with reality, becoming emotionally unglued, hearing voices….. (I copied this “meaningful communication” style from you when you were expressing your “concern” for BPR.)

If you can’t read and comprehend Thomas Sowell’s and Neal Boortz’s words, I suggest that you go back to school and/or find some medication that will help… psychiatric counseling maybe. I FEEL your pain………..

TS & NB were talking about BUMS in general, but you focus on the exception and claim that they’re the rule. Hard-working Americans are forced to support those who are too lazy to work themselves, who won’t quit their addictions, while libs are hoping that a few of the truly needy, those who can’t help themselves, will be helped. No consideration of the consequences of rotting the able-bodied BUMS’ character and fostering life-long dependency and generational welfarism. And I would say that to your face and to any BUM’s face, too.

A BUM like the one who harassed Obama’s white grandmother: “His grandmother wanted a ride to work at 6:30 in the morning because, the day before, she had been aggressively solicited by a homeless [‘black’] man at the bus stop. On her account, the panhandler ‘was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head.’”

See “Dreams From My Father, Lame Excuses From My Grandfather” for the rest of the story.

Since your brother, who “many mental challenges,” “has a roof over his head, but he cannot hold a job,” then he’s not homeless, is he? Therefore, like Hillary’s many fabricated stories, your whole pity-the-homeless-veteran story is bogus. An emotional tear jerker…. (SOB, $nif)

I agree with Sowell that “giving back” is “mindless mantra” because “we are not ‘giving back’ anything to those people because we never took anything from them in the first place.” His comments on slavery and the consequences of “societies which have made idleness easy for great numbers of people” are right on target, too.

“Those who want to ‘give back’ should give back the truth. It is a debt that is long overdue.”

………………………..

We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you.

We gave you this rule [not to be idle but to earn the bread you eat]: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him [a professing Christian] as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. (II Thessalonians 3)

………………………..

Read carefully: “I'm very sorry about your brother, Chip, and hope that he will recover. Don't give up hope. Family support plays a big part in recovery. There is supposed to be help available, and I pray that all veterans will be treated with respect and love and receive the help that they need to recover from the mental and physical horrors of war…. Does this mean that veterans should not receive help? No, but maybe some of them (as well as many of the other people who are homeless) have the wrong attitude of expecting others to do for them instead of pushing themselves to make it on their own. Drug and/or alcohol addiction is a contributing factor many times, and all too often addicts really don’t want to make the changes necessary to give up their addiction.” (Repetition aids learning.)

I can assure that I do NOT “profess a ‘christiany’ faith.” That’s another one of your Hillary-style “mischaracterizations,” your attempt to JUDGE me without judging yourself. "Holier than Thou" Hack – Beav called it right.

“(most likely) a woman” I am a woman, or as you prefer to think of me, a “winch,” but one that you can’t bring to tears and slobbering at your feet, begging for your mercy. You feel defeated; you’re losing your touch…….. (Violin playing sad music)

Does this mean that you’re no longer asking to have “meaningful” morning coffee together (much more preferable than “playing in the mud”)? $nif… $nif…

I guess you forgot to hit your “mute” button….. I wouldn’t want you to lose any sleep.

BTW, my “buddy” Bill O’Reilly? I’m not that famous… yet. Sorry. No autograph. Time to hit the MUTE button! Snoooooooze.....

"Even more shocking is discovering that there’s just one brain among all of you libs. I address one of you and another “individual” pipes up with incoherent, repetitious rants. "

If you include my name and links to me in your postings of what other people say, don't moan about me showing up to point out your running from the words of others that you just cut and pasted.

You and Beaver are a good fit.

If you ever find words of your own to convey a message that you will actually stand behind, that will be quite a day.

Adios

Kevin "Hack" King

Hack's challenge:

If you ever find words of your own to convey a message that you will actually stand behind, that will be quite a day.

What one finds when scrolling up in Denise's post.

Read carefully: “I'm very sorry about your brother, Chip, and hope that he will recover. Don't give up hope. Family support plays a big part in recovery. There is supposed to be help available, and I pray that all veterans will be treated with respect and love and receive the help that they need to recover from the mental and physical horrors of war….

I've known afew of those "bums" myself and, yes, they do smell like a whark rat. Note the phrase "smell like...". That is not calling them some "horrid" name. And, yes, many do get there by making some totally stupid choices. I know having a family member in that kind of situation weighs on you, but you can not make their choices for them and you have to realize it is usually in their hands. We have to accept that they are ultimately responsible for their situation, just as you and I are responsible.

Like the one who harassed Obama’s white grandmother:

“His grandmother wanted a ride to work at 6:30 in the morning because, the day before, she had been aggressively solicited by a homeless [‘black’] man at the bus stop. On her account, the panhandler ‘was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head.’”

"Typical" white person... No, typical response to a thug, no matter his skin color. And Obama equates this with Ir-rev Wrong's remarks?

You used that "R" word that Dems fear most. Not "Republican." RESPONSIBILITY!

Typical drive-by response from "holier than thou - Hack".

What a condescending, arrogant, patronizing blowhard.

--------------------------------------------------------
Barack Obama is the personification of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The Perverse Worship of a man

Thanks for the link to the rest of the story about Obama's grandmother ... a thug at the bus stop terrorizing his grandmother and all Obama can think of is "Black Like Me" (and memorializing the incident in a book to make him thousands of dollars and qualify him to be the Healer of the Racial Divide & POTUS).

Yes, yes, Den$e, anyone who has followed your posting history here by now realizes you have a very strong ability to rationalize just about any of your many inappropriate behaviors (see also: "rot in the womb").

You seem to think that a cleverly worded post with a lotta links negates the need for you to apologize for your many errors in judgment.

The Gospel according to Den$e (Reader's Digest version):
Abortion for me but not for thee!
Abstinence for thee but not for me!
Get outta the way, Jesus, I got some stones to cast!

You wouldn't know how. But you do know how to rationalize your bad behavior.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

___________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart!

Question: How do you know that we pray for Christian Scientist- they are not enemies- they are blinded, and deceived.

Oh, btw did you ask Hack if he has been taught to tell people he don't care for people? His exact words??????

Cults are non believers that are prayed for in my church.

Now, how about that forgiveness part? I am glad God is my judge and I answer to Him- He is the one that knows my heart.

Yeah, why don't you pray for me Davids Mom?????

______________________________
We Will Stand

Well Hack, since I see the "Human Race" I have been to many black churces with friends, visiting their church- oh, and my husband use to go to them and sing. Since we have been married we have been to them. So, Hack I have seen first hand.

I guess you were not here when I told Davids Mom- or were you?

I never said they were all "Black Liberation Theology" now did I? Just like the clip today not all baptists are "Black Liberaton Theology, "Black Liberation Theology happens to be in all churches.

I know what I speak- I've already been and would go again.

"Black Liberaton Theology" is wrong-

______________________________
We Will Stand

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or if we are at odds. I'm not sure what your argument is. I read this four times:

" Just like the clip today not all baptists are "Black Liberaton Theology, "Black Liberation Theology happens to be in all churches."

What am I missing? Did you feel unwelcomed in the black churches you visited? Could you tell me if you feel all or most black churches have a liberation theology or if it just belongs to a few?

Do you feel churches should integrate or stay as they are? I'm honestly confused as to what your point of contention is.

Kevin "Hack" King

I love this guy, have his CD's- he comes back to town I will go again to see him.

His book is outstanding.

click Stomp

And this one:

click Hosana

I have to stop I would be on here forever.

Enjoy!

______________________________
We Will Stand

"Good" Southern Baptists can't be seen in "colored" churches

You'll note that a great many Southern Baptists here are resolute on denigrating the Christian faith.

Many of them have renounced Jesus in order to worship their False Idol, Sean Hannity.

"Good" Southern Baptists can't be seen in "colored" churches

Where did this quote come from sniffles? Your lack of knowledge on the subject shows. There is a good percentage of SBC Churches that are in your words "Colored" also Asian and Hispanic. There are plenty of "Good" Southern Baptists that attend these churches every Sunday of every color.

Since we've had Obama's religion under a microscope lately, I thought it would be interesting to take a look at beeper's faith, SBC. I don't think my feminist views would be welcomed in this congregation, since the SBC women are taught to be totally submissive in their marriages and society:

"The husband is the head of the household. The wife is his helper. Both are equal in God's eyes, but their roles are not interchangeable. The Baptist Faith and Message, a doctrinal statement adopted in 2000 by the Southern Baptist Convention, outlines those roles clearly: "A husband ... has the God-given responsibility to provide for, protect, and lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband...."

SBC encourages Bible-based homemaking courses in colleges that teach women "how to cook, manage time, and 'joyfully submit to their husbands.' Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., offers a marriage and family class teaching wives how to meet their husbands' needs and keep marriage exciting."

Gosh, good luck with that, beeps.

I'll take my neo-pagan, deist beliefs over that garbage any day.

source: Christian Science Monitor

It's called THE BIBLE. That's the source of SBC doctrine.

"Garbage"? Being reminded of "the value of a child" and finding ways to "stanch the rising tide of divorce" are definitely worthy of any person's time.

Your Beserkley Code Pink-O feminism and "neo-pagan, deist beliefs" would not be taught in any non-liberal church, I'd dare say, but you would be welcome, I have no doubt.

Maybe you should read Dr. Laura's The Proper Care And Feeding Of Husbands.

I've heard that Stop Whining, Start Living is very good also.

__________________________

Abortion stops a beating heart!

click Christian Science

Sorry, guess you didn't know. The article speaks for itself.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

"Sound bites' taken out of context. The Monitor is one of the most highly respected newspapers in the world. The source of your article? Hmmmmmmm. BPR - how can one love the 'human race' - and almost in the same breath denigrate 'humans'?

"How can one love the 'human race' - and almost in the same breath denigrate 'humans'" such as President Bush, BPR, Beaver, and Richard? It's OK for you to disagree with them and freely express your opinions, but when they disagree with you, you characterize them as being denigrating.

The link was not about the newspaper but about how Christian Science doctrine compares with Scripture, the standard by which Christians measure their beliefs. You are free to agree or disagree, but you should give everyone else that right also.

What do you mean by "Sound bites' taken out of context"? Are you referring to the CS Monitor?

Wow, I knew you were good, but all of this is GOOD! You always prove your point,

You are exactly correct Christian Science does not compare with the Scriptures.

I sit here and you can say things and link a post a thousand times, and they give you off the wall answers- like I can't hear you. When all the time they are just trying to justify their cause.

Davids Mom never did get back with me about does she pray for me, or Hack not caring about me,(after all he does go to church) my church cares for people. I guess no response tells me the answer.

CS sound bites taken out of context - now that is funny. How can that be when it does not compare with the Scriptures?

We stand up for unborn babies- that can't speak for them self, we stand up BLT and they get angry- I happen to value people too much to believe in BLT. They have never said that it is wrong and it is. They attack Fox- well they are a little conservative- and of course they want them off the air. I just think in this case the truth hurts.

Hey, Denise you are good at this, they get angry with you because you Always back up what you say.

About throwing stones, wow if we were in person and they did their stone throwing in person we would be dead. It's done daily to us.

They can't keep a good gal down! Keep up the good work.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

"Nasty little" $niffles has spent so much of his time judging everyone (a poor job, even with all of that practice). He's going to be so disappointed that he's not The Judge. Poor $niff.............

Did you find any more links about irreverend Wrong? Have a great day!

I have tons of them-

I am concerned about our Nation- I can't help if what Obama's Pastor has said and the statement of what they believe on their website- it states BLT.

I am hoping that Obama come forward and says BLT is wrong and cuts ties with a church that wants to teach it. He may not do that or he may think he will loose votes, my husband heard a report that people are already saying they voted for him and if he wins the Democratic party they will not vote for him because of BLT.

Of course the media makes him look like a pie in the sky when they are all liberals to begin with. The only channel that gives you both sides is Fox. I am glad they are there.

If he wins of course I will do what the bible instructs and pray for him, like I have with each President.

Great job as always on your links-

It is a great day!

Have a good one.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

not humans in particular. Keep the faith

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

For a teacher that made alot of sense.

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We Will Stand

"The Monitor is one of the most highly respected newspapers in the world."

That's one of the reasons I posted from that CSM article, as most of us are familiar with CSM's global reputation in regards to delivering unbiased news.

Sometimes, however, I just shake my head when I'm communicating with certain beeeeple and get a response back like hers, that the publication is connected to a cult.

Hard to believe sometimes, the stuff I read on here.

G'night!

Thanks for the laugh. What little do you know.

All you do is call people who don't agree with you names like a 12 year old.

Of course you agree your for the "Black Liberation Theology" guy.

Have a good night Main.

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We Will Stand

Hey Beeps, that is an interesting site you linked to. They claim the Roman Catholic church, along with Mormons and Christian Scientists, aren't *really* Christians.

Nasty little site.

I'm not surprised that you found it, though.

Bertrand Russell once observed of Ms. Eddy's religion that it is neither Christian nor science."

I have not visted the website in question, but would like to offer a general observation. People here and in othyer places seem to assume that there is, in principle, something arrogant, intolerant and immoral in labelling a belief system a heresy or a cult. But this assumes that it is, in principle, impossible for such a system to signal a departure from the original. This, in turn, assumes that there is no such thing as orthodoxy. But why think that? First, are such people implying that one is not entitled to think that his or her beliefs are true? And if it is an objective fact that some belief systems signal a dangerous departure from the original, then there can be nothing wrong in pointing it out. (Though the spirit in which this is done might well be vicious.)

The New Testament itself gives clear evidence of early wranglings with groups like the gnostics and the so-called "Judaizers" who were, in the eyes of people such as Paul, were polluting the message of Christianity with foreign elements.

The world of Mary Baker Eddy's religion is as far from the original as Britney Spears is from Mozart.

for the logic lesson and the analogy.

Enjoy the time with your wife. I hope she gets better every day. Happy birthday, Lynn, and anniversary to you both!

About the link, an important question, IS IT TRUE?

You claim that BPR and others "aren't *really* Christians." Who's more believable?

Just a few of your many comments:

The one that got you edited and BANNED

"fetus flushing friend Den$e"

"vulgarian" "Mrs. Abortion-For-Me-But-Not-For-Thee"

"expertise with a wire hanger"

"In short, I cannot think of any particular tenet of conservatism that I agree with. As a Christian, I find the basic tenets of conservatism to be incompatible with Christianity."

To "bigoted and close [sic] -minded" BPR: "don't beat any children"

"Beeps....Do you enjoy doing Satan's work here on Earth?"

"Still doing Satan's work [posting a link about Obama's pastor's rants] in Fayette county, beeps?"

To BPR: "your (and Satan's) own opinions" -- "I truly shudder, though, when I think of the kind of example you are setting for your son."

SBC churches are not "proper Christian churches." They're racist and full of hate.

"trailer park Christians and Southern Baptists, but frankly, those folks wouldn't vote for a black man under any circumstances in the first place (right BPR? Git?)"

"I'm told some Baptists might also be interested in salvation through Jesus Christ."

"I truly think one of us is in for a big surprise come Judgement Day, and I don't think it will be me."

Despite the amount of practice that you've gotten here, you won't be the Judge then. I know you're disappointed.

Thank you again for the verse that you quoted:

They that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same. (Job 4:8)

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8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Coming from someone who does not believe in the Bible, I don't think you have a say in this, nor the understanding.

Sniffles had to get your help on this one. Didn't work.

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We Will Stand

sounds as though the women in the SBC movement need their own "Female Liberation Theology."

whether a person believes in the bible or not, doesn't preclude them from having a say in the matter...just ask skyspy our non-christian, jewish friend

I am laughing so hard- honestly look who put that on youtube- someone that calls them self Southern Baptist Cult- is that you?

They have not one ounce of credibility- I could do my own and write what I wanted to.

BTW- you never got back to me on SBC being Racist- I gave you a ton of facts in print.

Are you a relator also- you and Main seem to be on at the same time alot and answer for each other.

Good try- didn't work.

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We Will Stand

Or is that Blog Monster?

Being bossy again?

"that demon church" -- JUDGMENTAL, aren't you? But then as a "neo-pagan, deist" Wiccan witch (or have you not completed your first-degree initiation?), you are qualified to JUDGE Christian beliefs, aren't you?

How can you be a deist (belief in a Creator and one God but disbelief in the supernatural) and a pagan Wica (a duotheistic religion worshipping a god and a goddess or goddesses, practicing magic, and casting spells) at the same time?

What do Wicca and your other "neo-pagan, deist beliefs" teach you about the "boogeyman"? What do you do with your broom and cauldron during the day? Was your post on The Citizen when you first came “out of the broom-closet"? Are you skyclad when you're wondering if BPR is "possessed"? I hope that you're not wielding your athamé when she meets you at Starbucks. That might be a good reason to be "sceeeeered."

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The spelling Wica [the predecessor of the modern English word witch] first appears in the writings of Gerald Gardner (Witchcraft Today, 1954, and The Meaning of Witchcraft, 1959). He used the word as a mass noun referring to the adherents of his tradition of witchcraft ('the Wica'), rather than the religion itself. He referred to the religion as witchcraft, never Wica. (Wiki)

me around on the blog, being your true 'christiany' self again.

Typical fake christian, slamming any belief system that is 'sceeeery' and different than your own - good job dense! You really are the poster child for fake christian behavior.

What did sniffles post recently about you.... "move aside Jesus, so I can cast some stones..."

Jesus would be so proud of you!

It's a free country, well, somewhat, and you aren't Blog Monitor, no matter how loudly you screech.

Let me see.... Why did I address you? Because you've recently posted the following about me and my friends and our beliefs...

Hack addressed me, after insulting BPR, and you replied:

"Hack...have you noticed lately...that it is always 'those two' females that are constantly whining about being SO mistreated on the blog? For being such so-called, 'strong women', they sure act like a bunch of wimps."

"God Loves You - but you shall burn in *ell!! (beeper loves you too...just don't marry into her family, ewwwww!)"

$nif (who sounds amazingly like you and can edit your posts ):

"Howdy ['bigoted and close-minded'] Beeps, I see you are back in your usual Christian-bashing form today after a two-day respite to honor your deceased Mom and sister." [Cruella d’Evil’s husband?]

$nif, of course, couldn't resist bringing me into his rant:

"your fetus flushing friend Den$e" & "Mrs. Abortion-For-Me-But-Not-For-Thee"

$nif the self-appointed "expert" on traditional Christianity [upon completion of that bare-backing bear (not at all a teddy bear) d.b.a. "RawMuscleGlutes" Andrew Sullivan's "christianist" morality course]:

"It is apparant [sic] that you feel that Christian churches that espouse the so-called [There's nothing 'so-called' about it; that's the correct term.] 'Black Liberation Theology' are not proper Christian churches. Well, I feel the same way about Southern Baptist churches. Southern Baptists, they appear to have been raised to both hate and judge their fellow man."

"I just don't happen to believe that your judging people is Scripture-based." [This is said AFTER 4 paragraphs of judging BPR, Southern Baptists, Christian churches, me. ]

"I truly think one of us is in for a big surprise come Judgement Day, and I don't think it will be me."

"Please don't beat any children that do not deserve to be beaten!"

Mainly Screeching to $nif about "totally bipolar" BPR:

"It's as if the lilly-monster has risen, again."

"Btw - love your post. You point out the right-wing's hypocrisy so well!"

Mainly Screeching: "beeper's faith, SBC..."

"I'll take my neo-pagan, deist beliefs over that garbage any day."

Mainly Screeching to David's mom:

"I just shake my head when I'm communicating with certain beeeeple"
[Is that one of your pagan Wiccan rituals? ]

Mainly Screeching: "SBC - surrender women!"

Of course, you assert your rights to comment on posts: "whether a person believes in the bible [sic] or not, doesn't preclude them from having a say in the matter..."

Mainly Screeching: "beeper practices 'demonation'" / "that demon church"

"Are you posessed by the lilly-demon again?"

"beeper...we know yer sceeeeered of the obama boogeyman"

Mein Dictator: "the horse is dead - time to stop beating it."
[Another one of your pagan Wiccan rituals? ]

Let's not forget Mainly $niffle$ "TYPICAL" "trailer park Christians and Southern Baptists" & "doing Satan's work."

....................

Your demon-izing might be "sceeeery" to some, but not to me.

Now, how did I "slam" Wicca? Which FACTS aren't TRUE? I'm not an expert (like you claim to be about Christianity), but I'd be happy to verify any FACTS that you know aren't TRUE.

"'Move aside Jesus, so I can cast some stones...'" Freudian slip, Mainly $niffle$?

Don't you need all of your stones to build your pagan altar and to perform your "magick"? Maybe you could use your broom. Then no one would wonder if you're a "fake" Wica, or witch.

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8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

Abortion stops a beating heart!

I don't attempt to be blog monitor, however, it continues to be very bizarre that you follow me around on the blog and feel inclined to write imbecilic posts comprised of nothing but cut and paste.

Seems to be a lot of wasted time on your part - don't you have a fetus to save?

Now, I can't wait to meet Sniffles, Hack and Main at Starbucks. I will have to watch and see when they have their next meeting and see if it fits into my work scheldue- I hope it does.

Then they could tell me to my face all these things.

The difference is I care about people and they don't even get what I mean by "The Human Race". The "Human Race" is explained in the song I play often- we are people that God created and each one is valued.

It will even be good to see Yardman again, Hutch and Penguin and Mike King.

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We Will Stand

I hope you do set the example for Den$e and actually show up to one of our blog get-togethers!

I have a sneaky hunch you are not nearly as bigoted, nasty and racist in "real life" as you are here on these blogs. I still think you'd be as judgmental and incoherent though, but I'd welcome a chance to prove you wrong.

Den$e cannot show up in person because without access to Google she'd be exposed to everyone as the intellectual lightweight she is, but you seem at least to be able to articulate an opinion, even if it is often contrary to the ideals of a REAL Christian.

Will you be bringing your husband too?

I don't doubt at all that you're just as "nasty" in "real life" as you are here on these blogs. How's that for articulating an opinion? Short but not sweet, just like you!

Go eat your GRAPE NUTS!

Dr. Google

BTW, doesn't Starbucks have Wi-Fi?

That is funny coming from someone who does not even know what she belileves.

Obama is not a dead horse- neither is "Blackk Liberation Theology".

You didn't like what you saw- can't you come up with something to defend your guy?

You can't it's in print.

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We Will Stand

"can't you come up with something to defend your guy?

You can't it's in print."

What did Barack say, BPR? What has Barack said that needs defending; that he can't defend himself?

Kevin "Hack" King

Obama is proud of where he goes to church and they believe this:

Click Obama belief system

For my belief system go here:

click for my belief system

click here for more of my belief system

You don't see anything about color power do you? We are "The Human Race"

I know you will be kind with your response you care about me.

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We Will Stand

The SBC became proponents of the 'human race' in 2000: See below:

Rogers noted the committee affirmed "the blessing of racial and ethnic diversity and acknowledged that all races possess full dignity by the creative intention of God.

"Given the persuasive influence of postmodern culture ... we are called to proclaim Jesus Christ as the only Savior, and salvation in his name alone. Baptists thus reject inclusivism and pluralism in salvation, for these compromise the gospel itself."

For all the articles regarding women pastors published by both secular and religious publications in the weeks preceding the annual convention, the only mention of such was Rogers' reference to the subject in citing the revised statement: "The convention has spoken clearly its conviction that while both men and women are gifted and called for ministry, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture."

It's too bad 'women' , although gifted, are not talented enough to 'pastor' a Baptist church. God love 'em!!

I think you found a new friend in Main- well she does not believe in the bible- but you sure know how to judge people, except Hack of course.

I am not worried about what you say about my church, my relationship with Jesus, who I am in Christ- I have God's word that I answer to Him on that. Not you.

Are you praying for the SBC????? Since you think we are so wrong?????

Wow, Davids Mom did you come alive when the discussion becomes about Obama and his belief in "Black Liberation Theology"- don't worry I will keep you up to date on it.

It's a shame to justify when someone is wrong- read my "Black Liberation Theology"- don't worry I will post more.

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We Will Stand

What a breath of fresh air. It was getting stuffy on here- you know with all the let's get together and attack.

Hey, your on now and they all know who is the pro at all of these topics that is why they give you a hard time.

I know you can take on anything- and they do to.

Have a good evening.

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We Will Stand

Is that better? Good. Now, that being settled, I do care about a straight answer, so I'll ask again:

What has Obama said that needs defending? What words from the mouth of Barack Obama with respect to faith need defending?

Cheers to you, whether you like it or not

Kevin "Hack" King

I think BPR is concerned about what obama hasn't said.

It concerns me also that he has not condemned "black liberation theology". The statments made by the "founder" of this whack job group is way out in left field. They want to kill any God who does not want to destroy white people. Which causes me to say "what the"?? Many of my black friends feel the same way and they are diametrically opposed to such statments.

It isn't right no matter how we try to turn it around, to make it sound good. The bottom line is it is a racist policy, or statment.

That is exactly it- the belief of his church I posted and Obama has not said that he does not believe in "Black Liberation Theology".
Concerned- very.

Like alot of others have the same questions and they never get answered. There are alot of questions.

Thanks for your comment.

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We Will Stand

I think every normal person is concerned with any theology that instructs it's followers to hate anyone based on race.

I agree. Until I hear it from Obama himself, he is still supporting what Trinity United Church of Christ believes on the web site.

If he does not support what Trinity United Church Of Christ belief system has on it's web site about "Black Liberation Theology" he needs to leave the church and cut ties with "Black Liberation Theology".

We would not have this problem if we would see each other as the "Human Race". All people are have value.

I am standing up for what is right, we don't need this kind of belief system now or ever. Our value should never be based on race.

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We Will Stand

Since you don't care about me, you don't care about my answer.

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We Will Stand

I saw this picture and thought of you!