Alas, it was a number of clinics with no repudiation on the PP website that I could find.

But I'm not giving up on finding common ground.

How bout this?

Over 800 documented and recorded calls to different Planned Parenthood offices. Girl 15 years of age tells phone counselor she's pregnant by 24 year boyfriend.

In every state I've checked statutory rape is a reportable offense.

In all recorded phone calls, the PP employee instructs them to call back but not to mention the boy's age lest the police get involved or some variation of this including a we'll help him not get found out type of line.

Two state attorney generals are involved.

Would you condemn PP on this one?

This is the way to blog!

Well Paul, if you can provide me an unbiased link to back up your claim, I'll certainly condemn Planned Parenthood. To be honest, your credibility with me is a bit suspect with me right now: I took you at your word that HR536 (the Ga legislation outlawing contraception) had been amended...it's been over 6 weeks and no "amended" bill has been put up on the leg's website, and it appears the legislature is attempting to resurrect this supposedly dead bill in its' original form.

In any event, I still support the basic mission of Planned Parenthood. I think it provides a necessary bulwark against the encroaching theocracy that is fundamentally opposed to non-procreational sex in general, birth control and family planning options.

Article from The Indianapolis Star-- Judge rules Planned Parenthood must release names of children who were legally molested You may need to resize the file.

Filing from the Attorney General for 107 counts of unlawful abortion

As to HR536, Martin Scott introduced the changes during the subcommittee hearings.They did,in fact, exclude the bill from any application to birth control. After the bill died in committee, it appears the Rep. Scott never filed the changes. His office hasn't called me back yet to verify. I can't speak for Rep.Scott's office (hopefully he calls back) but it may be that since the amendment is dead for this year he hasn't bothered to file the changes.

"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan

The Indiana link appears to be the result of some "gotcha" entrapment from the friendly folks at Life Dynamics. Those folks send 13 year olds into Planned Parenthood clinics asking for contraception. If they are given contraception, whammo, aiding and abetting child molestation. Very clever. Their stated goals are to clog the Indiana courts with litigation against Indiana abortion clinics. Link

Your second link in the handiwork of Phill Kline, the disgraced former Attorney General of Kansas with a long history of clogging the courts with frivilous cases against abortion clinics. He admitted going on fishing expeditions against clinics, hoping to embarass women into not getting abortions. The one time he did manage to obtain confidential abortion records, Bill O'Reilly somehow got copies and talked about these women on his show the following week. Phill Kline was the only politician in America to seek funds from and accept funds from the scum at Westboro Baptist Church (the "God hates Fags" bunch who picket soldiers funerals). The current Kansas AG has indicated that now-district attorney Kline's cases are likely without merit.

and always favoring your side.

I remember one time posting verbatim testimony from a Congressional hearing, and you attacked not the facts but the site that reproduced the Congressional record. This seems to be a pattern of yours. Of course, if I quote from moveon.org, I do seem to get a pass.

Let's test your logic on the links.
The Indiana link appears to be the result of some "gotcha" entrapment from the friendly folks at Life Dynamics.

Not totally accurate. Calls were made (the actual recordings are on the LD site) where a girl wanted an abortion and admitted that she was pregnant by a 24-year-old boyfriend.

In hundreds of cases, Planned Parenthood willingly aided and abetted what would have been statutory rape and child molestation. It doesn't matter to me where the calls were from. They revealed what was SOP in the Planned Parenthood offices and what, presumably, had been going on for years in these clinics.

By your logic, we should throw out all the child predators that the PTC police force has prosecuted over the years since they met only a female police officer instead of the 14-year-old girl they thought they were going to meet?

The unvarnished truth is that the calls revealed what the clinics did as a matter of daily business. Kansas is not unique. Nearly every state legally requires the mandatory reporting of statutory child molestation.

You can pray they get off on some kind of entrapment technicality if you wish, but I have had a bellyful of people defending and protecting statutory rape and molestation.

Now let's deal with "Phill Kline, the disgraced former Attorney General of Kansas with a long history of clogging the courts with frivilous [sic] cases against abortion clinics."

Although not re-elected as the Kansas AG, he immediately became the county DA, replacing the man who had defeated him for the office of state Attorney General. A second-place finish, to be sure, but hardly a disgrace.

Funny that an independent judge signed his complaint against Planned Parent if it was indeed frivolous.

On the Westboro contribution, can I hold you to your own standard? If I can find a David Duke wannabe that hates Hillary enough and donated to Obama, then by your criterion, does Barack lose all credibility?

Here's an article from yesterday's Washington Times on the same subject.

I'm relying on you to find something on these authors as well.

Finally, note the last line in this document. It's from Martin Scott's office and shows the amendments I mentioned. You'll have to take it up with the sub-committee or the state webmaster on why their site is not updated.

This is the way to blog!

What makes Nuvo.net (“Indy’s alternative voice,” not the head lice treatment) an “unbiased” source?

What credentials does Laura McPhee possess?

Where’s your “unbiased” source for the info on Phill Kline, including your charge that he “was the only politician in America to seek funds from and accept funds from the scum at Westboro Baptist Church”?

"The current Kansas AG has indicated that now-district attorney Kline's cases are likely without merit."

Where’s your “unbiased” source for this statement?

“likely without merit” – What does “likely” mean?

__________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Gee, Dense, your legendary Googling skillz failing you this evening? Why not call up your friends at Westboro Baptist and ask them about their contributions? After all, you are an "honorary member" there, right?

Well, I guess it's kind of late for phoning so I'll help you out and we'll get you through your ignorance. As you know, the folks at Westboro Baptist Church, home of "God Hates Fags", are led by your close personal friends, Rev. Fred Phelps and Benjamin Phelps.

Go to this link:

Official Website of the State of Kansas: campaign contributions ("unbiased" enough for you, my little lovedumpling? )

Select ITEMIZED CONTRIBUTIONS and STATEWIDE RACES. Click "continue".

Type in PHELPS in the contributor name box and make sure you check "more details". Then click "continue".

Do a find on "Benjamin Phelps" and you'll see the only contribution the scion of Westboro Baptist has ever made was to the loathesome Phill Kline.

Now, I know you are all about the technicalities, so if you scroll down you will see that Fred Phelps contributed money TO HIMSELF to run for Governor in 1998 so I guess you are technically correct...the Westboro folks you strive to emulate on a daily basis have actually contributed to TWO politicians. I stand corrected and am duly humbled.

P.s. if you have issues with nuvo.net and/or laura mcphee, the burden of proof is on you to prove they are biased, not on me to prove they are unbiased.

Thanks for this recent eye opening post. You have superb sluething skills!

Also, you can tell whenever denise is backed into a corner, her claws come out and the spittle starts flying out, along with her christiany personal attacks, like her most recent post to you - yikes! What would Jesus say to that?

At least the TRUE Christian, anti-choice blogger, Paul Perkins, keeps his tone civil - thank Paul!

btw - that one statistic she noted.... 48.5 million abortions performed since 1973 - Wow! Millions of women taking charge of their lives, legally and safely for decades now.... thank you Roe v. Wade!

Millions of women, approximately 25 million, had NO "charge over their lives." Another woman, their own mother, had them killed in utero, before birth. They had no say in the matter.

Then, there are all of those male babies....

Put your claws into that. As a Wiccan Universalist who so subtly implies at Easter that Jesus and the disciples are queers and equates Christians with Muslim terrorists and demeans people (Christian or otherwise) living in trailers, you know nothing about "TRUE" Christianity.

I thought you were leaving for more "progressive" blogs where there's no"mud-slinging" or "trolls and flame throwing." $niff... $niff... $niff...

Main's $cream: I AM LION. HEAR ME ROAR!

Main $cream: "Don't stick your hand into a lions [sic] cage, unless you are prepared for a bite."

______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart!

AUDIO at 8 weeks LMP

The baby's heart begins to beat during his 3rd week of development (at 22 days after conception, or during week 5 of 40, dated from LMP) and can sometimes be seen as a flickering in the baby's chest on an ultrasound.

"If you're like most parents-to-be, hearing the fetal heartbeat for the first time is an exciting moment. Even if you've already seen the embryo on an ultrasound, there's something about that steady little drumbeat that makes you realize that you really, truly are going to have a baby soon."

so get used to it, troll.

Yes, 48.5 abortions performed since 1973 - performed legally and safely - THANK YOU ROE V. WADE!

I am beginning to think that your obsessive behavior, regarding mental institutions and meds, are based on the fact that you were once institutionalized.

And that your obsession over abortions is because you actually had one in the past, and now REGRET having had one.

It is the best explanation for your strange and bizarre behavior on the blog.

(btw - your fetal avatar reminds me of Bubble Boy in one of the Seinfeld episodes)

Read my reply to $niffle$.

You've asked me, "Were you a virgin when you got married?" And now you're speculating about my humanity ("troll," which must fascinate you as a Wiccan), sanity, hospitalizations, prescriptions, surgeries, and PRIVATE life. Who's the one who has a "strange and bizarre" obsession? That's why you never left and won't.

"To insist that the truth [about abortion] is in poor taste is the height of hypocrisy." ~ Naomi Wolf
__________________________

Abortion stops a beating heart!

I am glad you are not leaving.

I have to say honestly you come across a little angry with people who disagree with you-

Denise a troll- come on now Main you are an adult.

Plus just because you are against abortion does not mean you have had one- I agree totally with Denise- and I have never had an abortion.

The entire post that you wrote to her was insulting the entire time.

Is that a little judgemental on your part to assume that she has.

Like I said we are adults please find vocabulary that is appropriate with out insulting someone to express yourself.

Don't worry I don't care if you insult me, you only like people who agree with you.

I knew you were not gone- you like this attention too much.

Have a nice day tomorrow- and brush up on your vocabulary- btw do you talk to you clients like this?

_______________________________
We Will Stand

That would explain a lot! I know there are a number of people who are opposed to the concept of abortion here on these blogs, but I have often wondered why Dense has a single-minded obsession to respond and belittle every single pro-choice comment that is posted here.

"Do as I say and not as I did" would be very much in character for someone like Dense.

Can you explain why you "respond and belittle every single pro-[life] comment that is posted here," especially every post that I make.

Can you explain your "single-minded obsession" with parroting Main $cream & vice versa?

Can you explain your plagiarizing JeffC?

Can you explain how you edited your post AFTER Main $cream had already replied?

Can you explain your Fred Phelps' Fantasy about my "drooling" disabled veteran dad?

Can you explain why you would use bestiality in an analogy to denigrate another blogger, the post that finally caused you to be banned?

Can you explain why you are such a hypocrite?

Can you explain how your version of Christianity (or is christiany or christianist or whatever term you're using now) supports, even rejoices over, the killing of millions of babies in their mothers' wombs?

Can you explain why you have no sorrow over the deaths of millions of children?

What I doubt you can explain is the following:

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

There is hope after an abortion. “It can form a hole in one’s heart, a hold so deep that sometimes it seems nothing can fill the emptiness.”

"How Abortion Affected Me"

Finding Forgiveness and Healing

"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of overcoming it." ~ Helen Keller

___________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart!

Such anger is not healthy!

Exactly how many abortions have you had, anyway?

Not that it matters, though, because Jesus forgives you....even when you haven't forgive yourself.

Keep lashing out at the pro-choice comments if it makes you feel better...it's cheaper than therapy!

Exactly how many user names/personalities do you have anyway?

$niffle$/Main $cream, to be such a big PRIVACY advocate, you surely do pry into my PRIVATE life.

Is the reason you continually refer to yourself as a "Doctor" due to your expertise with a wire hanger?

by some, but I'm old. I've seen a lot of things and a lot of changes. THIS IS NOT A PERFECT WORLD! No one ELSE should ever make a 'choice' for a woman about an abortion. No one has that right. No one walks in her shoes but her. We don't know the circumstances and they are none of our business. You can not simply DEMAND a woman has a child when you are not involved. You want to DEMAND she has a child because that is your thoughts on the subject. Tell me anti abortion people, when she can't feed the rest of her kids cause she has one too many, and their whole support system fails, are you gonna bring her and her kids into your house to take care of when she can't?

Are you gonna hunt down the Father and make him love these kids? much less support them? Men still shirk support payments all the time. I know, I was married, my child looks like he came out of the same cookie cuter as his father. I was totaly left out of the gene pool. Although this is his only child, 3 months after divorce, he remarried and moved out of state and taunted me that I would never get support. Denise, do you know what it is like to have to buy your ONLY child his clothes from a second hand store and be glad to get them. Do you know what it is like for his Father to pull up in a powder blue Lincoln with his blond floozy wife with a demand from his lawyer to see his kid, as thought you wouldn't let him see him? Do you know what it is like to look into that child's eyes when other fathers come to games and his doesn't? A lot of these women should be given a medal for their undying love for their children and their true guts, when they have to decide not to have another because it would ruin what little hope they gave the ones that are already here? Do you know what a cold, lonely choice that is? I've never made it, but they have.

You Denise, think the world is perfect. Have you ever watched the Dog Chanel or whatever it is, and seen what normal people do to....dogs..? How they are found starved, torchered...killed? I loved my kid, these woman love theirs, they are trying to do what works for them in an imperfect, horrible world, they are holding on for them and their kids, and sometimes the thread is too thin, instead of condemning them, maybe try helping them.

In a perfect world, the stork would come and give the deserving 'couple' the baby....that is not what happens...please be kind to these women who are the only thing between their kids and the gutters...you just don't know...and I don't either, but I think I may have a much better grasp on it.

"No one has that right" to take another's LIFE. The baby does not have a "choice" in the matter.

Why not just take one of the woman's other children and kill him? The baby might have a better personality, be smarter, etc. And there would be no surgery and pain for the mother. What's the difference in the children? One's a lot smaller but just as valuable.

There are many who help others in need. Many mothers who are "dirt poor" don't kill one of their children. Some make the very hard choice to allow the child to be adopted. I know a few of those, and they are very glad that their mothers made that choice.

I'm very sorry for the hard life that you've had. Can you imagine life without your son? Even though it's been hard, I don't doubt that he has brought joy into your life. Some parents have to remind themselves of that when their kids are teens.

"You Denise, think the world is perfect." Not with all of the misery that I've seen. How does killing a child erase misery? What right do we have to play God? Killing children does not make the world perfect.

"Instead of condemning them, maybe try helping them." I and many others do. Do you? Helping a mother not to get an abortion helps both mother and child.

"Please be kind to these women." How do you know that I and others aren't? Is it kind (treating another as I'd like to be treated) to kill someone?

How can you make such judgments about me when you know nothing about me?

"I think I may have a much better grasp on it." Maybe you do or maybe you don't. There is help available, but taking the life of a child is not the best solution. How did women survive before abortion was legalized? It was hard, but they did it. Some women get abortions because they're self-centered (just as we all are at times). They're not willing to sacrifice just a few months of their lives to allow their babies to live so that others who desperately want children can adopt them. Many of these women haven't received the encouragement and support that they need to make that decision. All too often all they've heard is to get an abortion, not how rewarding it can be to give your child to another, despite the heartbreak. And some women use abortion as a form of birth control, having several abortions just because they're irresponsible.

"I Received Grace" -- "A young woman, pregnant by a stranger's rape, chooses adoption over abortion." (Donna Lewis)
____________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

"When you consider that women have been treated as property, it is degrading to women that we should treat our children as property to be disposed of as we see fit." ~ Elizabeth Cady Stanton

"No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save the suffering of the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life. It will burden her soul in death. But, oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the deed." ~ Susan B. Anthony

I was around when they were illegal and saw some very good girls go to desperate lenghts and almost kill themselves. These weren't bad girls, to the contrary, they were young kids that made mistakes. Back then the consequences were dire. They were looked down on and their kids were looked upon as bastards. The guys walked away scott free, but these girls were ruined. I remember quite well a girl, not so pretty, but very sweet and innocent in that she believed in everyone and wanted to please. She was dating a guy that we all knew was going to marry a girl going to another school. All of us at different times tried to tell her, but she believed the lies the boy told. She got pregnant and he ditched her and talked about her like she was dirt. To their credit, a lot of the guys thought he was pond scum and threw him out of the house. The girl went to a back room butcher and lived to tell the tell. It may sound odd now, but friends, girls and some guys, were selling their radios, sterios, jewelry, to give her money to help pay for the abortion. We were hurt for her that she was intentionaly used. Did we think it was right? What I think is right is that no young girl has to go through that or even knows what a back room butcher is. Things are very different now and I'm glad.

I'm not trying to fight with you, but to make you understand there is more than one side and life isn't fair. This girl wasn't pretty and they knew she wasn't a virgin, so they hounded her for what they wanted. Should her punishment have been to ...MAKE.. her have a baby to teach her a lesson? What lesson? That to believe in people who turn out to be liars, you pay dearly? Why ruin the girls life to prove a point?

When you mentioned Susan B. Anthony, I couldn't remember what she was famous for so, I googled her.

It seems that in her day, the girls were having dangerous abortions as well.

"In her writings, Susan B. Anthony occasionally mentioned abortion. Susan B. Anthony opposed abortion which at the time was an unsafe medical procedure for women, endangering their health and life. She blamed men, laws and the "double standard" for driving women to abortion because they had no other options. ("When a woman destroys the life of her unborn child, it is a sign that, by education or circumstances, she has been greatly wronged." 1869) She believed, as did many of the feminists of her era, that only the achievement of women's equality and freedom would end the need for abortion. Anthony used her anti-abortion writings as yet another argument for women's rights."

How do you know she didn't sell a few sterios to help these women too?
It sounds to me like she had compasion for them as well and didn't try to force her views upon them.

Glad that a child has died? How is that the best solution for mother or child? Why further compound the "mistake" by making another one that has profound consequences: death for the child and often emotional and physical effects for the mother, and sometimes her own death. The mother gives birth either way; abortion just ends the pregnancy sooner.

To stigmatize the mother but not the father was and is wrong. It’s even worse to stigmatize the child and to PUNISH the child (by ending his life or treating him as a "b***") for the wrongs of his parents. “Two wrongs do not make a right.”

Doesn’t the father “walk away scott free” when the mother has an abortion? How is he made to bear the responsibility for his actions? He’s not pregnant and he doesn’t have the abortion. How did the mother’s abortion remedy the mistreatment that the “very sweet and innocent” girl suffered? The abortion further treated her and their child like “dirt.” Was she treated with respect after she had the abortion? Did this make the guys stop “hound[ing] her for what they wanted”? Or did it lessen her value even further in their eyes?

What “lesson” did the father learn? He didn’t even pay for the abortion. He used the girl and then dumped her. All she was left with was hurt: physical and emotional.

Susan B. Anthony was mistaken about the root cause for abortion because women have equality, education, voting, etc. now, but the sore of abortion has become a gaping wound. 48.5 million children have died since 1973. Couldn’t you consider that there might be a better way for both mother and child?

But Susan was very right when she said, “A woman destroys the life of her unborn child,” and that should cause us to stop and think and ask, "Isn't there a better way?"

You can have compassion on both the mother and the child. It isn’t a either/or situation. And the child can be a gift to a childless couple and can live his life knowing that his mother made sacrifices for him. That CHOICE doesn’t “ruin her life”; rather it helps her learn love and compassion. “It is more blessed to give” than to abort.

__________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart!

I read your posts and I just enjoy how you put it all out there.

I can only reply that this one post says more about you and your ideals than anything I've seen you write.

I just wonder if you know the difference between "feeling" and "thinking". Nah, don't answer, I know what it will be.

To think that you could proudly proclaim your disdain for the unborn child with no remorse, baffles me. I know some liberals that talk about it in whispers, and with great angst, a lesser of two evils is how they put it.

But you proudly announce it for the whole world to know that You, Old Beach Bear are happy that unborn children are given no consideration whatsover.

I'm wondering if your mother might consider a 50 year post birth abortion?

I am not in the least ashamed to say I believe in a woman's right to choose. It sounds like after digging up the reference to Susan B Anthony, I'm not alone in feeling for anyone in that position. If Susan B., were alive today she would be right there with me. The deal is....you are of a generation, that has the pill, others didn't. I'm trying to tell you guys what happened when they didn't, woman and their children, were scorned. I'm trying to tell you the other side...if you don't want to hear it, ok...but that ...WAS.. the way it was. Now days, most women have abortions for fewer reasons, among them....it is already dead, and some woman can Carry a dead fetus for a month to 6 weeks after it dies.. I did,.. is right to let the woman know its dead and have an abortion/DNC at a hospital in privacy, or ..MAKE HER.. to please a few...walk around in that condition, and have a miscarriage in a public place and then the police hunting her down and it splashed in the papers like a week or so ago...Remember, this woman has just found her child is dead.

Another reason, is something is wrong with it, and it can't survive or is so disfigured or retarded, it can't lead a normal life. I know the other side to that too...I can only share my feelings and past, so that others can read it, and if they come to that unfortunate place in their lives...it will help them make the best decision for them and theirs.
I have a little brother who was born with a brain tumor...when the md's figured out what was wrong, about 2 months, they told my parents, it would be more merciful to let him die. We loved my brother and didn't listen to the doctors... My family had the best intentions...he had numerous brain operations and the end result was that he suffered horribly...I can still remember my parents taking him back when the fluid would build up and he was so low they couldn't put him to sleep, I can remember hearing him screaming when they put the needle in his head to draw the fluid off.

My little brother is alive today...he stays at home, has the IQ of maybe a 1 year old, is 6' 2 and weighs about 240 lbs. My mother is old and my father is dead. My father, who was so very kind, use to tell me so many times, he wished he had let my brother die and not suffer. That comes from a parent who loved their children deeply. My brother has 4/5 grand mall seizures a day from the scar tissue. As children like him get older, other birth defects surface...he has many and suffers quite a bit from those as well. Thinking back, we didn't know it, but we did the ...selfish...thing...not what was best for my brother...do I love him..yes...do I feel guilty that we didn't pay the md's attention. Yes, every time I see him suffer...The only thing that would have been worse, is if some anti abortion/rights///spoiled brat, had gotten in the middle and made it harder. You guys have no idea what you are doing...you mean well, but are totaly clueless. Every parent who loves their child, or the ones they already have....should have a say in their welfare...it is not a community vote...! They should have the right to make an informed decision and not one that I, or you, want them to make.

It is never easy, and no one decision cures all.

the fact, and make more issues with, the college story...yes...I defend her too...I'm so grateful that other girls don't go through that.

I had much rather that kid have an abortion, than parents get a call from the school that they found their daughter dead with a coat hanger or what ever.

I'm telling you, witch hunts aren't right, sometimes these kids make wrong decisions...I don't want to see them punished further.

Because of the pill, there will be fewer and fewer...do I defend these scared kids, that make wrong decisions....YES I DO! Because they make a bad one and get pregant, I would never feel I would want to see them punished further.

There are fewer and fewer abortions and it is wonderful, and I'm glad...but I will never ever say I, nor you, have the right to take away anyone's choice.
I can never live in their shoes and neither can you.

"No matter what the motive, love of ease, or a desire to save the suffering of the unborn innocent, the woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed. It will burden her conscience in life. It will burden her soul in death. But, oh, thrice guilty is he who drove her to the desperation which impelled her to the deed." ~ Susan B. Anthony

OBB: "If Susan B., were alive today she would be right there with me."

Show me where Miss Anthony advocated for legalizing abortions and using abortion as a solution to the problems facing women. Even if she did, that would not answer the question, "Is it right?" Nor does it address the rights of the child.

Most women have abortions as a matter of convenience. And women can choose another doctor if they don't like his decisions about miscarriage. That child is already dead; the D&C doesn't end his life. Why didn't you choose another doctor?

We don't want "witch hunts," nor are we "spoiled brats" or "totally clueless." In fact, we are likely much more informed than you since you claim that "there are fewer and fewer abortions and it is wonderful."

Why does anyone have the "right" to take away a child's life? He or she doesn't have a choice. But the mother can choose adoption.

________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

realize that if you are unwanted, ugly, undesirable, or worst of all gasp!! inconvenient you have no right to life in America??

Sadly, we've exchanged one form of discrimination for another. While we used to discriminate primarily on color now we discriminate (against your very existence) based on how old you are or how inconvenient you make someone's life.

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan, quoted in New York Times, 22 September 1980

This is the way to blog!

Well in this particular case, the mother was ugly and the father was a creep.

Chances are, the baby would have gotten her looks and his demeanor.

So everyone pitched in to abort what likely would have been a creepy, ugly baby.

It's a cheery story all around, right?

I don't know why abortion is a subject on this blog. It's been legal... for years, which I'm glad for, and it gives these woman a choice. My feeling is, if you don't believe in them, don't have one.
I think instead of fretting over some having a right to an abortion due to their circumstances, a much better past time would be to volunteer somewhere with kids and make a difference in their lives. Terminally ill ones, crack babies, retarded or disfigured, you could help make things better for them and come away with a good feeling.

These kids are real, with problems you can help make a difference with. Abortion is a private choice.

Oldbeachbear, thank you for sharing your stories. They are quite powerful reminders. I'm very sorry that you're being made to suffer the usual "anti-choice" gauntlet for daring to share beliefs that are contrary to a small but vocal few.

Keep the faith.

How touching!

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined

Hey Git, didja notice that someone dared to venture a pro-choice position, and almost instantly she had "the usual suspects" (Hobbs, Muddle, Perkins, and Mrs. Abortion-For-Me-But-Not-For-Thee) denigrating her beliefs?

$niffy would never notice his many "denigrating" comments.

Exactly how did I "denigrat[e] her beliefs" by attacking Oldbeachbear's character or reputation or belittle her beliefs (although she did not extend the same courtesy to me)?

Are you not "denigrating" me by labeling me, "Mrs. Abortion-For-Me-But-Not-For-Thee" and asking "exactly how many abortions" have I had and musing about my "expertise with a wire hanger"?

Of course, "the usual suspects" offer their affirmation of abortion but criticize those who offer their opposing view on abortion. Good for me but for thee.

$nif, do you ever notice your "suspects'" hypocrisy? Never! The $niffles Gang is oblivious.

Denise, given your continual shrill hectoring on the need for abstinence outside of marriage and the "evils" of abortion, together with your rather curious non-denial of "first hand experience" with both pre-marital sex AND unplanned pregnancy termination (aka "abstinence for thee but not for me" and "abortion for me but not for thee", respectively).....Denise, in all seriousness isn't it more than a tad disingenuous for you of all people to be accusing someone of "hypocrisy"?

Didja notice how sick and bizarre it was to read those "someone's" pro-choice orgy love fest in the making? What next? A pro-choice wine fest complete with pickled unborn children as a side?

Yeah... I notice the same ole folks daring to take a stand against the callous choice of butchering babies in the womb and somehow twisting that heinous action into a story line named "Choice - It's A Beautiful Thang".

Yeah... I noticed.

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined

Why, I certainly did notice the "usual suspects" with their typically overheated rhetoric, dispensing their usual utter disdain for those who fail to share their religious and/or philosophical (as opposed to scientific) notion that personhood somehow begins at conception.

Four men who will never have the opportunity themselves to make the choice for themselves instead presume they know what is "best" for a woman...

And of course there is the other member of this vocal quintet and I think we all know by now exactly why she is so adamantly anti-choice ...

Four men who will never have the opportunity themselves to make the choice for themselves instead presume they know what is "best" for a woman...

I heard somewhere that Truth and logic are consistent. So by your logic:

Do you have to be black to hate racism???
Jewish to hate Antisemitism??
Female to hate the calculated killing of innocent human life?

If killing you would make life better for another family would we have the right to do so? More, importantly would you have a moral obligation or duty to give your life for them?

If not,why do you deem it acceptable to kill the most innocent of the human community based on your whims of convenience?

People don't have value because of their color,wealth, or because they remind us something good or bad. Their have worth because they are human.

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan, quoted in New York Times, 22 September 1980

This is the way to blog!

The concept of personhood is within the realm of ethics and philosophy (remember Dr. Singer?), not science. However, science has determined that the pre-born child is a unique human being at conception, with his own fingerprints, blood type, gender, and a beating heart at just 22 days after conception.

Abortion stops a beating heart!

but on this ...you are full of #it...! You are very smart on most...but this..you are off base, or just too stubborn to rethink it...I think it might be both, but I do think you are a good person...
you guys just need to think about this...it is not black or white. Do you have a lot of adopted kids? I don't care...just put this away for the people that have to. Don't judge them.

for each generation and that is what we all want. I recently started a job, I'm retired, but like most need more money. There was a young girl there that was in the training class with me. She had to leave early because of her kids, a little 4 month old and a 2 year old. It was apparent this wasn't going over well with the boss. Next day I told her I would help her with the kids if she gets in a pinch. She then told me something that made me feel good. She said DFACS was paying for her child care. She said they paid it all for her to look for a job and then once she got one, they were going to cut back, but would still pay a portion. She wasn't mad they were cutting back, just happy they were helping her. I thought, this is great! My tax dollars helping someone who wants to work get on her feet. This may have made a difference in this woman leaving these kids in a hell hole, or just giving up and not working at all. Things are getting easier for these women and their kids. If it was there when my kid was little, I wasn't aware of it. I'm not mad that was not there for me, but glad the next generation has it.

and very eloquently also. Thanks for sharing that. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I won't speak for the others, however, I enjoy your posts and respect your opinions and hope that you keep posting. You've shared some intensely personal experiences in this public forum, and your words of wisdom are based on these experiences, and I commend you for being so open and honest.

She did, at the bottom of this stream, provide very valuable links to Planned Parenthood. Hopefully, if any women find themselves in need of information, they can use Denise's links to their local Georgia Planned Parenthod facility. According to the site, they receive pregnancy, parenting, adoption, and abortion info. So give Denise credit where it is due.

Kevin "Hack" King

You can no longer pretend to be any different from $niffling $tream. A little more pleasant at times, but just as hard-core liberal. $niffy derides my dad, who's a disabled veteran, and you just can't bring yourself to condemn him. Snickering with him, as you did when he made the comments about Maximus that got him banned? You falsely accuse me of calling your veteran brother a wharf rat (actually, an outright lie), and $niffy continues to perpetuate the lie. You remain strangely silent. But you can gleefully point out to $ageless:

"Make a link to her post giving various Planned Parenthood web sites. That should help. As a matter of fact, make this link a permanent part of your signature block."

You disgust me (the "self appointed cherub of fetus protection").

PRO-LIFE DEMOCRAT CAST KEY VOTE TO END STATE FUNDING OF ABORTION

“Planned Parenthood Loses in Virginia” (Democrats for Life)

“An Abortionist's World” by Nat Hentoff (a liberal Jewish atheist who writes for the liberal Village Voice)

Journal of the American Medical Association by a North Carolina physician, Dr. Joel Hylton: "Who can deny that the fetus is alive and is a separate entity? Its humanity also cannot be questioned scientifically. It is certainly of no other species. That it is dependent on another makes it qualitatively no different from countless other humans outside the womb. It strikes me that to argue one may take an innocent life to preserve the quality of life of another is cold." (Democrats for Life)

__________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart.

You won. Your arguments are air tight, and drawn out. I concede. Feel free to pick on Sage for a living. But, with this, I'm amazed:

"You can no longer pretend to be any different from $niffling $tream. A little more pleasant at times, but just as hard-core liberal."

You are just now, after a year plus, figuring out that I'm a "liberal?" Where have you been hiding?

About your dad, save it. I told Sniffles I thought family was off limits. But you are so vile and condescending at times, that people end up going to very ugly places with you. Remember, you brought up your dad to show us how veterans should be self sufficient and not need government assistance. You DID insult my brother. You blogged of the homeless smelling like "warf rats." My brother has been homeless. That, Denise, is an insult to my brother.
Again, I invite you to find civility, or live with that which your comments so often provoke. Like the baby water boarding lessons. There is a reason I am not nasty to other posters. I don't like being nasty. I like conversation. Why do you think your tone has not promoted such civil conversation? Is it possibly linked to your tone? That's for you to answer, but let's just agree you win and put eachother on mute.

Cool?

Kevin "Hack" King

Notice I said "just as hard-core liberal" as Sniffles & Main Stream. You called Bas/Snif's bestiality comment "quite clever," and "off limits" isn't the same as condemning Snif's calling my dad "drooling." I notice that you have NEVER called Sniffles or Main Stream "vile and condescending" or anything close to that. That was my point.

Just how should I respond to such "christiany" (the word you use to denigrate me) "nasty" attacks?

Prove where I insulted your brother. You pick out one phrase from the words of Neil Boortz (who never mentioned veterans) and lied that I insulted your brother, whom I didn't know existed and never mentioned. But since you mentioned it, just how do homeless people smell? I don't know how a wharf rat smells. Do you? Therefore, I would not have used the simile, nor would I even comment on body odors. The problem with many homeless people is that they choose self-destructive behaviors. Some are mentally ill and refuse to take medications, which are available at no cost to them, or remain in hospitals. Are you for forcibly institutionalizing them?

BTW, I attempted to explain to you and to mend fences for the offense that you took at Boortz's words. That was why I mentioned my dad. BIG MISTAKE!

If you would learn to read and comprehend, then you wouldn't continue to bring up your ridiculous example of "the baby water boarding lessons." I notice that you did not rebuke Yardman's joke, "Which is more lethal, waterboarding, or Denise's deluge of cut and paste?" Why the hypocrisy?

As I responded to your original accusation, I repeat:

Hack, learn to read so that you don't label a personal comment made in response to Richard's joke as a "FACT" and so that you don't mischaracterize my statements as being in support of torture. I do support adult reading programs, evidently a form of torture for you.

To quote sweet, reasonable Tug: "Denise you have a right to your opinion just like everyone else. For what it's worth, I agree with you on abortion. I don't believe for a second that you condone torture of our soldiers!"

Civil? No, you and the $niffles Gang don't know the meaning of the word. You've not changed for the better since you were so "civil" to me in two of your first posts about me when I was new to this site:

"Jeff Carter, we are wasting valuable time and intellect," in which you called me "a cut and paste winch doing the demon's work for the RNC," who's "not interested in truth," "the RNC p!ss girl, doing the dirty work, devoid of a conscience," a "lunatic," "wack job," living in a "cesspool."

"Greetings Jeff. You must be a great parent!" in which you called me "a completely enslaved, mindless errand runner, winch," "biggot," [sic] and "ignorant," one of those poor souls who "do not wish the light of truth to shine upon them."

Just how should I respond to such "christiany" (the word you use to denigrate me) attacks?

Whatever happened to your attitude: "I will absolutely admit that I like the fight that dwells within you. I do hope you stay on this bus for the long haul. I'll play nice."

"Change your tire for you on the interstate nice. Hold a door for you even if you have an "I'm Doctor Denise Conner" name tag on nice...."

Do whatever you want, but I will continue to post and point out the $niffles Gang's imagined "civil" tone. I don't need your approval or permission.

_
Oh come on, I know you don't care for me for certain reasons, but that does not matter- I think you are a cool dude.

To put Denise in the same category of who you spoke of- or is it the private emails you have been getting.

Cool huh?

Have a nice day tomorrow!

______________________________
We Will Stand

It's getting late for me, some of us have to work tomorrow. Anyway,...have a good night, and a good weekend what is left of it.

This is very late for me, what is wrong with me, I am going to bed.
Sorry, you have to work tomorrow. check email

Have a good night.

______________________________
We Will Stand

I like you. I didn't like your evil twin, but I like you. My issue with Denises' tone has nothing to do with you. Don't sweat it. She's a big girl that will back her words. I'm a big boy and I'll back mine. But this is a rebuke of words, not the person. Anyhow, if she takes my advice, our banter will be mute very quickly. Have a good Sunday. Our church, Heritage, is "taking it to the streets" tomorrow. No church in the sactuary; all service projects. Let's hope that rain stays away

Kevin "Hack" King

I am sorry I said that- please let the evil twin go- I did say I was sorry to everyone that I offended. I was trying to prove a point and I guess I offended some- so again I am sorry.

I like you- you are a hoot- hey Hutch let's me have it, had me crying last Sunday- I still like him.

Women are sensitive- well most and some will never say it, they have to be tough in this world. So, I did not want Denise to be upset.

Plus, guess what I heard your wife is adorable. Well, Hack she can't be as adorable as me.

For land sake- none is compared to my handsome husband. Been married 27 years- yeah thanks for letting everyone know my age- another thing women are sensitive about.

All is well on my side- and I hope on yours.

Have a good evening.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

My intent last week was not to make you cry, it's just one of my pet peeves is people who condemn a book without reading it like that goofy lady in Gwinnett and Harry Potter. I don't think you can go on review's or other people's opinion's either, some of the best movie's I have ever seen were panned by the critic's I make up my own mind as I go my own way. The yardman's a good guy and I wish he was still teaching at the school as I think he must have been a good teacher and we never have enough of them.

I yam what I yam....Popeye

oh yes, I especially love her links that take us to dead fetuses, fetal limbs and putrid body tissue....

lovely links Hack!

You quoted to Hack about Denise" Oh yes, I especially love her links that take us to dead fetuses, fetal limbs, and putrid body tissue.

What you really mean you love the links that take you to dead babies, babies limbs- babies.

If you think it's just a fetus or embroy and don't call it a baby- why would it bother you. Or just putrid body tissue?

Main - it's a baby that is why it bothers you.

So, which is going to answer me you or Sniffles?

_______________________________
We Will Stand

You must be very desperate for conversation, bpr/lilly, if you had to resort to digging up a week old post of mine. Or did you just miss me?

Okay, I'll play. I'm a bit bored at the moment, waiting for a fax to come in…

No, a fetus/zygote/blastocyst/embryo/dividing cell mass……is NOT a baby. And to paraphrase your own christiany words: we have differing opinions, so get a life and move on.

But to clarify my position for you, any bloody, pulpy, tissue mass grosses most people out, whether it is from a fetus, person, animal, road kill, bug guts, after birth, or a rotted, severed body part shown on that horrific CSI t.v. show. And being grossed-out is very different than being "emotionally moved" by a photo.

The anti-choice photos gross people out. Most people I know, and whom I've discussed similar anti-choice photos with, aren't "emotionally moved" by them.

These following photos, however, are emotionally moving and for the obvious reason that the photos are/were of real live people, not a fetus or of fetal tissue. There is a huge difference between someone being deeply moved by a photo, as opposed to being simply grossed-out:

FAMINE

BUCHENWALD

TSUNAMI SADNESS

IRAQI FATHER WITH DAUGHTER

No, a fetus/zygote/blastocyst/embryo/dividing cell mass……is NOT a baby.

So What?

But all the above are completely and 100% human. That's the question that everyone keeps dodging. Let me prove to you why it's vital to face that question.

Main, I believe that any and every argument that is used to justify killing the unborn can be used to justify killing other groups of humans that are younger, or older, or in some way less developed than others.

So far,no one has come up with reasoning that refutes the above statement.

All the tired arguments of the pro-abort crowd fail this simple test.

For example, is the fetus less developed than a teenager? Sure, but since when do we grant people the right to live based on how old or developed they are?

A four year old girl doesn’t have the fully developed reproductive system of a 14 year old girl, but we’d never say the 4 year old has less worth less just because she’s not as developed.

No fetus (based on current science) has self awareness (unless the ultrasound of them trying to avoid the forceps that are attempting to tear their limbs off counts), but neither does any 3 month newborn. We don’t ever (Peter Singer notwithstanding) question the newborn’s right to live so why should how aware we are or how well we can think determine whether society can authorize the ending of our life?

Like me, you probably know some Down’s syndrome kids. Neither you nor I would think of reducing their value because their mental development is less than ours.

As I've said before we've only swapped forms of discrimination. Instead of discriminating based on skin color, now we discriminate against the most innocent of humans based upon their size,age,lack of wealth, or how much of an inconvenience they may be.

Do you not see a problem with subjecting human beings to this form of discrimination?

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan, quoted in New York Times, 22 September 1980

This is the way to blog!

Paul, about your "simple test"... you said
For example, is the fetus less developed than a teenager? Sure, but since when do we grant people the right to live based on how old or developed they are?

A four year old girl doesn’t have the fully developed reproductive system of a 14 year old girl, but we’d never say the 4 year old has less worth less just because she’s not as developed.

Arguments about "worth" put aside, the simple test is "viability". This is not to be confused with "dependency".

A baby is capable of independent breathing on its own, even if it is dependent upon its mother for nourishment to grow.

A fetus (less than 21-22 weeks) is incapable of independent existance even though, like a baby , it is dependent upon its mother for nourishment to grow.

An non-viable fetus has no rights to personhood whatsoever. There is a difference between a potential person and a person, not unlike the "acorn vs.oak tree" scenario I like to bring up.

Anti-abortion folks such as yourself appear to be singularly unable to distinguish between viability and dependency.

P.S. Your Reagan quote is a non sequitur. If you hadn't been born you wouldn't have an opinion one way or the other. But it is a clever sound bite.

You're sweet and I'm in a great mood so I'm not going to argue today. My spouse took me to Ted's for lunch today and we swapped spit and drank martini's together... life is good.... the kids will be home soon... and we've got a few more moments together....

Catch you later, dude...

Peace out.

They're not "anti-choice photos." They're pictures of babies who died by an abortion method. Babies, as you said, have "limbs"... tiny hands, feet, arms, legs, fingers, toes.

"No, a fetus/zygote/blastocyst/embryo/dividing cell mass……is NOT a baby."

PROVE your claim that, at any of the following stages of development (notice the correct order), a unique living human being is not growing in his or her (gender is determined at conception) mother's womb, the place designed to "nourish and house the fertilized egg until the unborn child, or offspring, is ready to be delivered."

ZYGOTE: “Derived from the Greek meaning ‘yoked,’ a zygote is the cell that results from fertilization. It is the union of a spermatozoon and an ovum — the mature germ cells, known also as the male and female gametes (from the Greek for husband and wife). Each of the two gametes is haploid, meaning that the nucleus has half the number of chromosomes of normal body cells. Their union results in the diploid zygote, with a full set of chromosomes, carrying the combination of genes that will determine all the bodily characteristics of the new individual.”

“The zygote carries within its single cell continuing threads in the immemorial lifespan of the human race, as well as the mixed-and-matched microscopic material from which will stem the intricacies common to all human bodies, yet with the remarkable uniqueness of a particular person.”

BLASTOCYST: “An early stage of the human (or other mammal) development early in pregnancy. It is the structure formed in early embryogenesis, after the formation of the blastocele, but before implantation. It possesses an inner cell mass, or embryoblast, and an outer cell mass, or trophoblast.”

EMBRYO: “Early stage of development of an organism in the egg or the uterus, during which its essential form and its organs and tissues develop. In humans, the organism [which is living] is called an embryo for the first seven or eight weeks after conception, after which it is called a fetus.”

“In humans, by about the fourth week, the head and trunk can be distinguished and the brain, spinal cord, and internal organs begin to develop. By the fifth week (3 weeks post-conception), limbs begin to appear and the embryo is about .33 in. (.8 cm) long. By the end of eight weeks, the embryo has grown to about 1 in. (2.5 cm) long and all subsequent change is limited primarily to growth and specialization of existing structures.”

It is during this stage, just 3 weeks after conception (5 weeks LMP or gestational age), that the baby’s heart begins to beat and will continue throughout the rest of his or her life. The circulatory system is the first organ system that begins to function.

FETUS: “In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception (week 10 LMP) to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.” (Latin: offspring; young one)

“The term used for the developing individual in the womb, by convention when it ceases to be called an embryo after about the first two months.”

“Again by convention, the baby remains a fetus until birth, when it becomes an infant (or, for a month, a neonate).”

21-week-old FETUS born prematurely survives.

You've mentioned your children before. Was your daughter or son not a "baby" before she or he was born? Didn't you have a "baby" shower? When you saw that + sign or heard your doctor say, "You're pregnant," did you not once think "baby"? Not once before that child was placed in your arms did you think "baby"?

Just as a jury must look at all the evidence (crime scene photos, autopsy, etc.), so must anyone who wants to make an honest evaluation about abortion before making this life-and-death decision.

______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart!

It's a baby that's what bothers you- I didn't go you sites- why should I.

You choose to insult me constantly, can not be civil - honestly waiting for a fax- how do you keep you job if you are so hot tempered.

______________________________
We Will Stand

Why should it bother you- if you approve of it-

Who am I talking to??????

_______________________________
We Will Stand

I have a life- your the one that is unhappy- asking for certain people emails- do you want my husband's ha. He would not want yours- don't flatter yourself.

Jobs- relator- my friend is the number one realtor in the most recognized company in Fayette County- I know some things.

You always come across as angry with women but not with men, what is that all about?

Let's see which ones guys have you been not nice to?
_______________________________
We Will Stand

"How can we charge that it is vile and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if the images are real? To insist that the truth is in poor taste is the height of hypocrisy. Besides, if these images are often the facts of the matter, and if we then claim that it is offensive for pro-choice women to be confronted by them, then we are making the judgment that women are too inherently weak to face a truth about which they have to make a grave decision."

("Our Bodies, Our Souls," New Republic, October 16, 1996)

You might have heard of Emmett Till?

His mother made the decision to have an open casket funeral because she "wanted the world to know what had happened to her 14-year-old son. His right eye was missing, his nose was broken, and there was a hole in the side of his head. [All but two teeth were knocked out. One eyeball was hanging on his chin. An ear was missing. She saw daylight through the bullet hole in his head. His skull had been chopped almost in two, the face separated from the back of the head.] Fifty-thousand people attended the funeral. Jet magazine ran photos of Till's body; soon Till's murder became an international story." [His face was so mutilated that when Wright identified the already decomposing body, he could only do so based on the ring that Till was been wearing.]

"Images still speak louder than words."

Only the hardest of hearts could remain unmoved by the dismembered tiny hands and feet of dead babies.

______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart.

No answer required with this. I feel your quoted quote may be of use.

"How can we charge that it is vile and repulsive for pro-lifers to brandish vile and repulsive images if the images are real? To insist that the truth is in poor taste is the height of hypocrisy. Besides, if these images are often the facts of the matter, and if we then claim that it is offensive for pro-choice women to be confronted by them, then we are making the judgment that women are too inherently weak to face a truth about which they have to make a grave decision."

We need some one to find links and post the reality of what IEDs do to soldiers' bodies. It will be reality, so there should be nothing offensive in showing reality to Americans who just think 4000 is a simple number, without families attached.

Kevin "Hack" King

that they are extremely bothered by pictures of dismembered human hands human feet human arms/legs and
human faces.

You can't look [Warning graphic photo] at the pictures of Emmett Till and not hate racism. Likewise, you can't look at the pictures of the results of abortion and not realize that innocent human life has been taken.

Thank God Emmett's mother had the courage to show the world what racial hate looks like.

May we continue to have the courage to show the world what abortion looks like as well.
This is the way to blog!

what is it you want, vis-a-vis the government? Not a lot of cut and paste, just what you think should be done as a government? This is a chance for you to state your "legislative" position, as it were. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Kevin "Hack" King

Denise provides info for women in need

Dense provides info for women in need

edited: thppppt you edited your entry before I could lock it!

Let's get sage in on this!
Kevin "Hack" King

You already did:

"Make a link to her post giving various Planned Parenthood web sites. That should help. As a matter of fact, make this link a permanent part of your signature block."

You really are desperate.
_____________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

Abortion stops a beating heart.

You're really losing touch with reality... "my little lovedumpling"? Your long weekend at Central State wasn't nearly long enough, was it? The strain of so much "free" time on your hands is getting to you. Your nerves are frayed. You snap, snap, snap at everyone. You reach for that bottle hidden by your chair.... You can't sleep. Again you reach for that bottle hidden by your chair.... You can't get Dr. Google out of your mind. You have that haunting feeling that you're being watched. You slip into your $Dollar$ personality (who comes online after "$niffles," about this time every morning). You reach for your keyboard and begin babbling....

What will you type next? More malicious invective against Falwell, including Tug in your perverse songs? It was Pentapenguin (whom you called an "amoral gutterslug") who pointed out your similarity to Fred Phelps: you're "both hate-filled, evil people... [who are] mentally and morally on the same level -- in the gutter." Not much has changed in the past year, except that you no longer call yourself the Rice Queen.

You were the one demanding “unbiased” sources, but you don't have to play by the rules, do you? Now who's "dense"? (I'm Delightful Denise, remember?)

Oh come on now, Dense, we both know that the one with the "Phelps Fantasy" is you...

I've got nothing in common with the man. You, on the other hand, have so much in common with him:

Like you, Reverend Phelps foams at the mouth whenever the word "abortion" or "homosexuality" is mentioned.

Like you, Reverend Phelps is absolutely intolerant of any position that does not agree with his.

Like you, Reverend Phelps is grotesquely insensitive to others in his pathetic need to get his message out: Him: picketing soldiers funerals. You: lecturing miscarriage victims on how "babies rot in the womb".

$niffy vilifies a disabled vet by referring to my dad as a drooling slug multiple times, someone who was not a "REAL" dad.

It's not inconceivable that you lie in bed at night entertaining the fantasy that Fred Phelps is your REAL father, not that drooling slug you have to call "Daddy". [sic]

Does that qualify as "grotesquely insensitive"?

"Spittle" and "drool" ("foaming at the mouth") and feces litter your posts. Freud would describe your behavior in terms of oral and anal stage fixation, characterized by “emotional diarrhea”: a disinclination to exercise any self-restraint in expressing offensive thoughts and feelings, whether others want to hear them or not.

Just how could you edit your comment #69072 when Main $cream had already replied to your post "Dense -- "Phelps Fantasy" (#69072) with her post "Great job, sniffles..." (post #69073), which was underneath your "Phelps Fantasy" post?

Not possible unless you and Main $cream are one and the same. Your feminine side is soooo charming. Strange, isn't it, when I post to you, Main $cream answers, even though she was off in Daily KOOKland with her Beserkley Breasts-Not-Bombs Buds.

You freely use Main $cream's deliberate mischaracterization of my words ("rot in the womb") as if they are your own, just as you've plagiarized JeffC.

Then, your post to Main$cream: "I also got a kick out of [Git's] pathetic chest thumping about how I'd better not come after his pathetic family coz he would defend 'em by any means necessary. I sincerely doubt that a man who will not even stand up to defend his own words would stand up to protect his family. I truly pity his children." You repeatedly called Git, "the Sissy," the "Message Board Cancer." You've attacked Hutch, Tug, Pentapenguin, Skyspy, TruthSleuth, Mixer, Enigma, MyWordMark, RetiredArmyMajor, Maximus, and many others. One can't help but wonder how soon the $niffling Rice Queen will be banned again.

The only one living in fantasy-land is $niffle$.

Don't tell us all you can't handle the same personal attacks that you yourself dish out to the rest of us! Thank you for the chuckle today! You really are a piece of work. You're crying because sniffles insulted you, the same way you've been insulting him - come on... take it like the man you are!

This really IS funny!

oh.... and get off of your high horse.

Answering for $niffy again? I'm not crying. You're the one with a bad case of sniffles.

Where have I insulted his family? He and Hack claim that vets are off limits, especially disabled "drooling" ones, but hypocrisy is rampant among the $niffle$ Gang. Disgusting.

Dense seems angrier than usual today...and that's saying something.

BFO=Blinding Flash of the Obvious.

If my Dad had gotten disabled in the service of this county and had never done anything to you, I'd take a swing at anyone who called him a disabled, drolling **** like you did.

This is the way to blog!

But I was quite amazed that the reason Denise brought her dad up was to show how tuff veterans don't need the government's help (like my brother did). I pointed out that one in four homeless people are veterans of this Country's service. After speaking of the homeless as being like "warf rats" she then brought out the example of her dad, a man who never needed the government's help. Sooo, those one in four vets on the street? Just weak warf rats I guess. I do believe my dearest Denise reaps the seeds which she sows.

Kevin "Hack" King

To Denise:

"it's not inconceivable that you lie in bed at night entertaining the fantasy that Fred Phelps is your REAL father, not that ********************** to call "Daddy".

Come on man! Family is OFF LIMITS, dude! My brother, your kids, her dad. Jeff C's father is rare exception 'cause he is famous. Why "go there?" Please go fix that before someone locks you into pretty indefensible words.

"Kevin "Hack" King

I had some of the same thoughts you listed above, but I also have recorded conversations (under the sanction of law enforcement agencies)
that record PP knowingly covering up statutory rape.

For example, 15 year old girl calls into PP and says she needs an abortion due to her 24 old boyfriend. The law requires any counseling agency to report this case of statutory rape, but,time after time, the Planned Parenthood phone screener would say, "Don't worry -we won't let the law get involved."

The organization is dirty through and through.

If they continue to take the 340 million in taxpayer money, they need to be required to follow the law.

Finally, this was not an isolated call to one clinic. Similar results occurred across the country. Plenty of time for the organization to implement a policy on designated donations.

Send me a private email if you want to hear the above.
This is the way to blog!

Check your private messages.

I have no love for Planned Parenthood, and will be interested in hearing what you have.

You are never a personal, mean-spirited attacker. You use reason and I always appreciate you and your ideas.

With the linked conversation, I believe you are aiming at the wrong target. This is, I believe, a phone set-up by a pro-life person to play "gotcha" with PP. But Planned Parenthood is not the problem are they? They link people who SEEK their assistance with LEGAL services. Because PP does not actually perform abortions, is not your true opponent the system by which abortion is made legal? Is not your true enemy the government of the U.S., which recognizes abortion as legal in certain situations? And, specifically, should your disappointment and ire not truly be focused at the GOP legislators you supported from 1995 to 2006 who had the majority, and the GOP president since 2000, who DID NOTHING to make these legal abortions illegal? I truly feel one-issue voters have been used for their votes and given NOTHING in return.
You know that I and the rest of the pro choice Americans will not support legislation that will force women to bare the babies of their rapists, fathers, step fathers, or babies that will endanger their lives. We hate abortion, but see government intrusion in those family decisions WRT rape, incest, and endangerment as usurping the families' responsibilities in the early stages.
If you want these laws to change (making Planned Parenthood absolutely irrelevant), your fight should be with the men and women who have given you lip service but never actually fought to make abortion illegal.
Until people in legislature who identify themselves as pro-life explain what punishment women obtaining illegal abortions will receive, and what punishment doctors performing illegal abortions will receive, your fight to make abortion illegal will be perpetual. Until these pro-life politicians begin suing women seeking abortions to have Roe vs Wade challenged, we will see this debate over and over and over on The Citizen and in America, but the law will not change. And none of this is caused, at the root, by Planned Parenthood.

Hope this isn't too long winded, but proxy wars don't work nearly as well as wars on your actual "enemy."

Happy Easter, and cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

"Until people in legislature who identify themselves as pro-life explain what punishment women obtaining illegal abortions will receive, and what punishment doctors performing illegal abortions will receive, your fight to make abortion illegal will be perpetual."

Well said, Kevin.

Last month I challenged the bellicose anti-abortion types on this board to detail exactly what punishment a woman requesting and receiving an abortion should receive if abortions were again made illegal.

I asked this relatively simple question in two separate blog entries.

Strangely enough, the consensus answer was "Waaaaah! That's not a fair question!" (truthsleuth, enigma, the Sissy and Muddle).

Even the hyper-opinionated vulgarian, Dense Conner, was strangely silent on this question...I guess she couldn't find a suitable answer on Google to cut and paste.

cogito promised to get back to me but never did.

I mean, how difficult can this be? You commit a crime, you should expect some punishment from our legal system, right?

Yet they couldn't tell me what that punishment should be....I find that troubling. Sure, just about everyone wanted to put the abortionist doctor in jail, but he's the accomplice here. Why oh why do they seem to want the perpetrator to go free?

I'm still waiting to hear from the anti-abortion folks here exactly how much jail time a woman requesting and receiving an illegal abortion should receive.

___________________________________________________
Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Sissies!

I was just waiting until you ask nicely. Let me hear, "Pretty please, Dr. Denise."

I'm still waiting for you to answer: Just who is “Sniffles”?

$niffles' View of Life

You know that I'm not intimidated by CRABBY ol' you in the least.

"Vulgarian"???? Maybe you mean Vulcan? Strong on logic -- quite the opposite of you.

_____________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

I doubt if you will ever get an answer to your question from the anti-choice group on here.

Lee Goodman (AtCenterNetwork.com) took that same question to anti-choice fundie's protesting on the streets in Libertyville, Illinois several years ago. The protestors look stumped as Lee asks the question "what punishment" should be given to women who have abortions, if the procedure is made illegal some day in our country.

I'm sure many of the anti-choice folks on here are stumped as well, therefore, not able, or willing, to answer your question, like these protestors:

WHAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT FOR AN ILLEGAL ABORTION?

Well, GitReal already responded yesterday in a post that yours just happens to be above now, so I find it rather difficult to believe that no one will answer the question. Maybe a bunch of people need to reply to GitReal's answer and say "me too....agree...right on....yes, you're right?"

Git already said it pretty clearly and I happen to agree with him that targeting the DR first and foremost would be the solution. Taking their medical license away seems as common sense as taking away a business' right to operate if they are knowingly using illegals as labor. Considering that some punishments in the USA tend to target the "provider"(for example drug dealers get harsher punishment than drug possessors), that's probably how the punishment would happen.

Since abortion isn't illegal in most forms, talking about the punishment aspect is all theoretical anyway.I don't happen to see a scenario where abortion in the USA may become always illegal and prohibited. I do think it's very possible that the legality of abortion will be decided at the state rather than federal level in the future, in which case each state would decide on its legality and the punishment for those who perform "illegal abortions" and those who seek them.

From Nuk:

"Git already said it pretty clearly and I happen to agree with him that targeting the DR first and foremost would be the solution. Taking their medical license away seems as common sense as taking away a business' right to operate if they are knowingly using illegals as labor. Considering that some punishments in the USA tend to target the "provider"(for example drug dealers get harsher punishment than drug possessors), that's probably how the punishment would happen."

You folks are having a difficult time going after the secondary "victim" you see in abortion; the mother. I find that it is necessary for you to completely disregard reality to craft this argument.

If a woman or young girl inserts a wire hanger into herself, or overdoses on certain pills, or uses certain drugs to induce abortion due to the fact she doesn't want to have her father's, rapist's, or step father's baby, but abortions are illegal, WHO IS THE DOCTOR to take a license from? Think gentlemen. If you want abortion to be illegal, that means seeking and getting an abortion is a crime. The mother will be at the center of that crime.

Do you guys still not wonder why abortion is still legal after all of these years? The America you live in, by majority, wants that decision out of the government's hands. Git, aren't you always telling me that the government can't do anything right and should be much smaller?

At any rate, I'll leave you folks to debate abortion all over again like we did last week.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Strangely enough, the consensus answer was "Waaaaah! That's not a fair question!" (truthsleuth, enigma, the Sissy and Muddle).

You lie again. Go back and re-read the threads.

I'll give you a hint. Same as with the illegal alien issues. Skip the aliens and go after the businesses that hire them. Make them pay severely and the problem will take care of its self for the most part.

Same with abortionists. Go after them and the vast majority of these abortions will become non-issues. Now if your main desire is to jail the co-conspirating perpetrator then I'm sure something can be worked out to satisfy you desire to see justice served.

I'm still waiting to hear from the anti-abortion folks here exactly how much jail time a woman requesting and receiving an illegal abortion should receive.

You figure it out since jailing the perpetrator is a bigger concern to you than saving innocent lives. Nice distraction from the real issues at hand. The issues of killing unborn children in their mother's womb as a matter of convienence.

What say you we allow these unborn children reach the age of say 16 or 18 years old before you try to abort them. You know.... kind of give them a bit more of a fighting chance to resist the butcher mills that churn profits in exchange for death.

It just puzzles me that you are more concerned over jail time for those that would take a life over the actual victim in this case. And you wonder where the Nazi part of your name is derived from?

The librul mind......

Now go ahead and repeat that question again?

Have a nice night oh hateful one.

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined