McCain vs. Romney vs. Reagan

JeffC's picture

I have to admit that I am somewhat confused by the consternation in the Republican Party over the imminent nomination of John McCain.

I understand that the Republican Party here in Georgia is so far to the right as to relegate itself to extreme fringe as exemplified by the frequent claim I hear that President George Bush, the head of the national Republican Party, is “not a conservative”. But after the election next Tuesday, when the local party votes itself into national irrelevancy by supporting Huckabee and Romney, I expect the hue and cry to intensify to unparalleled levels. In fact, I am expecting to see half the town in sackcloth and ashes and am bracing for reports of isolated self-immolation.

Perhaps someone on the most extreme right-wing fringe of the party, someone on the truly politically reactionary edge, someone like local centrist Richard Hobbs maybe; could explain the conundrum of the McCain vs. Romney vs. Reagan argument.

It seems to me that, although there are many, many issues in any campaign, in reality (and I hope that concept doesn’t derail you before we get started RH) there are but a few defining issues for Republicans. In this election, they seem to be Iraq, immigration, and taxes.

Romney, as John McCain has pointed out, supports setting timetables for withdrawal from Iraq. (I am willing to change that to “supported setting timetables” because, as with almost every issue, Romney has had at least two positions and it’s hard for a bystander to keep up with which one is current. I accept either.)

Romney, of course denies the timetable issue even though on ABC News, he said: "Well, there's no question that the president and Prime Minister al Maliki have to have a series of timetables and milestones that they speak about, but those shouldn't be for public pronouncement."

Romney Embraces Private Iraq Timetables

It may be that because ABC is part of the MSM it is not relevant but I think we will all agree that Mitt’s current position (unless he has changed it this morning) is that he does not support timetables.

This seems to mesh well with McCain’s position of being willing to stay in Iraq for a hundred years.

What would Reagan’s position be? Well, in 1984 when truck bombs driven by suicide bombers hit the U.S. Marine and French Paratrooper barracks in Beirut, killing 241 American Marines and 58 French soldiers, Reagan’s position was to cut and run. In fact, Reagan’s policy closely resembles Hillary Clinton’s position, out of all the major candidates.

But limiting the discussion to the Republicans, at the time of the abandonment of Lebanon by Reagan it seems that John McCain supported Reagan. I could only find this clip from McCain at the time:

McCain on Somalia

At the end of the clip, McCain draws connections between the situation there and in Lebanon: “The tragedy in Beirut: 240 young Marines lost their lives, but we got out. Now is the time for us to get out of Somalia, as rapidly, and as promptly, and as safely as possible.”

Seems like Reagan supported Hillary’s position, but since at the time McCain supported Reagan while Mitt was mute, I’ve got to come down on the side of McCain’s position being closer to Reagan’s.

In any case, it’s a stretch because I do not know anybody who thinks Reagan would have led us into Iraq; the definitive act of the current Republican Party.

So how about taxes?

Reagan ran for Governor on the promise of tax cuts as do all Republicans. Unfortunately, instead of the promised tax cut, he imposed the biggest tax increase in California history. In fact, according to the Sacramento bee, “California's new Republican governor, Ronald Reagan, had just called for, and signed, the biggest tax increase in the history of any state.”

Sacramento bee

Again Reagan’s position is closely aligned with Hillary Clinton’s.

Reagan then went on as President to implement the two largest tax increases in the history of the United States and shifted the payroll tax portion from 9.5% in 1980 to 11.8% in 1988 thereby increasing the tax on the middle-class. Of course these tax increases were in reaction to the enormous deficits.

On the other hand, according to the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, which tracks state finances, Romney raised roughly $740 million to $750 million per year by increasing fees and corporate taxes gained from what the Romney administration describes as “closing loopholes.”

Since shifting taxes to the middle-class and huge, gigantic, enormous deficits are the hallmarks of the Republican Party regardless of the candidate and since McCain supported Reagan, and since Mitt’s increases were in “fees”, I have to come down on the side of McCain being closer to Reagan than Mitt. Although since Reagan was actually closer to Hillary, I admit this is hair-splitting.

The clearest distinction seems to be on immigration.

Although no less an authority that FoxNews has accused Mitt of supporting sanctuary cities:

Mitt Romney's Sanctuary Cities

The fact today seems to be that the breeze has shifted and along with it so has Romney’s position. As of noon today, Romney wants to round up the immigrants and send them back. The fact that this is impossible is totally irrelevant. The fact that Reagan’s position is closely aligned again with Hillary Clinton’s position is also irrelevant.

Reagan’s Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 granted outright amnesty to illegal aliens:

An Amnesty by Any Other Name

(I hope my linking to such a questionable source as the New York Times is mitigated by the fact that the article was written by Edwin Meese III).

Here it is clear. McCain’s position is light-years closer to Reagan’s than is Mitt Romney’s. If you don’t agree with me, we can ask a specialist in the field like Juan Hernandez to settle it for us.

So there it is. Longer that I had planned, sorry.

But it seems clear that today’s Republicans are much, much further from Reagan than Reagan was from Hillary Clinton’s positions.

But it is also clear that McCain is and was much closer to Reagan than Romney (in his current configuration as of today).

So why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth?

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Shelby Barker's picture
Submitted by Shelby Barker on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:34pm.

romenyfacts.com

Huckabee 08'


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:54pm.

__
Did you forget who I am voting for.

Regardless of your link- let's do some digging on the other McCain, Hillary(well that's been proven) Obama(some of that's been proven)

So, Shelby what's your choice if Huckabee does not win?
Remember who's side I am on------- HUCKABEE!

_____________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 12:16am.

Sorry JeffC, you gave an admirable plug and argument. You should have been a lawyer, or a politician, the way you twist the facts and take them out of context. I have to commend you on that.

I must say that I compiled a list of things your dear old dad has done since, well, he was kicked out of office, but then I thought, nah, its Superbowl weekend.

As to your comments though, I think they are likely coming a bit too late. You seem to like McCain, as we on the right like Zell. I guess we tend to overlook the treacherous behavior of those from the opposition who acts upon our behalf,... see Lieberman and Jefferies. They get a lot of attention from the MSM, but are reviled among their own. McCain is reviled from the right, plain and simple.
McCain Feingold wrong on free Speech, McCain Kennedy wrong on immigration. McCain was wrong on the tax cuts.

The real debate now is on the left side of the ticket and, more importantly, who will be the VP.

Thompson bowed out, gracefully, maybe in hopes of getting a nod in a few months. Huckabee is a possibility, bringing back the christian right wing? although the real social and fiscal conservatives will scratch their heads.

On the left though, one need only beg for either a Clinton/Obama ticket, or a Obama/Edwards ticket. Those combos might be unbeatable right now.

I just hope we have some fight left in us, or we will become more like England as far as being politically left. England has moved toward French socialism, which has leaned toward a real socialists society. I doubt Sardozy (sic) has the abilities to make them see the error of their ways before its too late. I fear we are but 20 years from becoming a nanny state, cradle to grave. . . . and thats sad, so very sad.

I know you've read Atlas Shrugged, now we are beginning Chapter One.

The Republicans need a John Galt. Where is John Galt?


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 12:57pm.

"Who is John Galt?" unless I miss my guess. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 10:14am.

You seem depressed. I compared Reagan to Hillary three times and you let it slip by. But look on the bright side at least McCain Feingold failed. Sure McCain Kennedy wasn’t what everybody wanted but you can’t always get what you want. The right and talk radio killed it and so nothing at all was done. Y’all gotta learn nuance and compromise and moving it down field a little at a time like the Patriots are gonna do today; instead of insisting on the “Hail Mary” pass every play. Personally, I think he was right on the tax cuts. Without spending reductions there is no such thing as a tax cut, just deferral and a guarantee of future tax increases. Plus, you’ve then got to pay the interest.

I think you picked the Dem VP’s. If it is Clinton, she has to go with Obama. If it is Obama, he’s going to need the Edwards demographic.

Too bad Galt can’t run with McCain.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 12:12pm.

You're exactly right Jeff, as that great philosopher of old said, I think it was in 450 b.c.e (the new method of dating) was, "You can't always get what you want. . . but if you try sometimes, you just might find, . . you get what you need!"

Liberals are big on incrementalisms. This would not be possible, if not for the help and support from the Main Street Media, or as Rush appropriately calls them, the Drive by Media. How, you might ask, by sensationalizing the news that they want us to see and read about.

Gun Control- The media reports every time a gun is used in a murder or killing, especially if its involving children or near a school. The liberals then start talking about more gun controls, irrespective of the many statistics which show the opposite.

Abortion-This was a tough one, but it started with the swinging 60's. Burning your draft card, burning your bra, having free sex everywhere and not being responsible for the decisions you make during one of these events. Again, like your father refused to "judge" an adulterer, since he himself got a woody from looking at pictures of Rachel Welch, as if its possible not to, he won't judge men and women who refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. The incrementalists, with the help of the MSM, have defined it in simple terms, A woman's right to choose.

Taxes- Well, they have progressively increased them over time, to where 40% of the American people pay no income taxes whatsoever. I think the number is much higher with all of the hidden income and money paid to illegals. (Yes, the Fair Tax would have taxed this money!) But over time, they have been able to breed a society of takers and entitlement programs to where Government is always the answer to all of our problems.

Homosexuality- from being freely derided in public, to now being disproportionately represented in all aspects of our lives, homosexuality is now seen routinely on television, in magazines, and yes, even in our school class rooms where incrementalism is now teaching our kids from kindergarten, that "Tommy has two mommies!".

Immigration- We have all of these laws that many of my dear friends have followed, at a huge price, to become legal. But liberals don't mind the lawlessness, like your father's non-judgmentalism, we can't turn them all back to Mexico, because of their "right to choose" where they want to live.

Freedom of Speech- This is a great one. It used to be, way back when, that liberals actually stood for the right to freedom of speech. They wanted to give equal time to the "MLK's" who spoke about important issues in our country. They wanted to have a free voice to give their opinions about controversial matters, without the fear of reprisals. Now, they have created the politically correct type of speech, that now hinders the exercising of free speech. See Berkley and their equating Armed Force recruiting stations with pornography. Or our own Supreme Court which now protects child pornography as free speech but denies us the right to speak against a candidate with impunity, 60 days before an election.

So yes, Jeff, I wish John Galt would return, but alas, he has already bought a fast boat to china.

Aristotle, one of the founders of our Western Civilization, taught about "city states" and "democracy". One thing he said was that for the process to work properly, a demographic of 50,000 could be supported, but beyond that, we would lose touch of our electorate. (That is why PTC is still alive and vibrant, but slowly becoming another Riverdale or Newnan.)

I fear that he is right, with today's Liberal incrementalism, our society has become the proverbial frog in a pot of ever increasing warm water. If it was boiling when he was put in, he would have jumped out, but place him into lukewarm water, and he will just sit there, while slowly boiling to death. (At least thats what the analogy says, I of course would never boil a pour frog alive. But today I'm BBQ'n my world famous Shrimp. I marinate them in Greek Feta Cheese salad dressing and then sprayed with Olive oil while on the grill. Oh my God!)

America is boiling to death because of liberals such as your father, although to a much lesser degree due to his eccentricities, and others who try to legislate via the MSM and when that fails, from the bench with activist judges.

You're right, the Pats may win the game, by taking every yard that the Giants are giving up. Its hard to defend against the offense of a pretty boy like Brady (or Obama) with their articulate command of the issues. The defense just lulls over into a stupor, and allows him to roll right over us, because they have come to believe you can't stop it, so you might as well join it. Strange how politics mimics football.

It seems to me, someone, somewhere made a comparison between the Presidential election and whether the AFC or NFC wins the Superbowl. If you or anyone else finds that comparison, then please post it. I'll know who to root for if you do.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 02/04/2008 - 12:23pm.

Turned out John Galt was the quarterback after all!! Great game!


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 1:58pm.

I believe that I have finally discerned one of your fundamental misunderstandings Richard. You have equated Carter’s attempt not to judge someone’s eternal soul to a perceived lack of judgment whatsoever. I believe this explains much of your seriously clouded reasoning.

It always makes me smile when y’all condemn the MSM for messing up the plans that you so carefully make or that Rush makes for you. Suddenly, the MSM shines the bright light of publicity on a subject and reason prevails. An excellent case in point has been taking place here in Georgia and on this very blog with the revelation that the legislature was considering outlawing contraceptives through the very sneaky and borderline dishonest attempt to redefine pregnancy as occurring at fertilization instead of implantation while at the same time loudly proclaiming that the legislation had absolutely nothing to do with contraception. Thankfully, the MSM was there to call out their lies and give true information to the people. It’s more than understandable that the ditto heads hate the MSM.

Beyond smiling, it calls for a laugh out load for the right to even mention activists judges when there has been a virtual right-wing frenzy over decades to find and appoint activists judges who will finally implement the agenda which they cannot get legislated and overthrow Roe v Wade.

Oh well, whenever justices rule for Constitutional rights the left applauds because we love freedom and the right grumbles and flogs the “activist judges” horse because they hate freedom and love control. It has always been so and I guess it always will.

But to more important matters, I simply cannot understand why you are not supporting my team today. Surely being named the Patriots should override any other consideration, much as the naming of the Patriot Act did. And didn’t they gain some intelligence through some type of illegal wiretapping or monitoring and then destroy the evidence? As a Republican, that should have a natural appeal!

The shrimp sound great. Enjoy them and the game!


NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 7:38pm.

Bland, old, moderate and non-inspiring. Sort of suspect when it comes to immigration reform, campaign financing overhaul, not going to really inspire anybody. Lots of experience as a senator(so-so value) and a true war vet and hero who can speak from experience, unlike most Repubs.

Romney? He seems to be taking pages directly from the Bill Clinton Triangulation playbook. Probably not as conservative as some Repubs would like and some don't like him for the simple fact that he's a Mormon. You know, because Mormonism is a "cult" where all the other overly-organized religions somehow aren't????He isn't going to inspire the masses either, but does have real experience in RUNNING SOMETHING, unlike most in politics who have theories and lack running big business or a state or an Olympics.

Neither are Reagan and both have the advantage of running against either Hillary or Obama, two very beatable opponents with very high negatives(Hillary for being Hillary, Obama for being "extremist left-wing" and real big on an undefined "change") Since you usually say something like "extremist" or "radical" when describing rather moderate Repubs like a Romney, I felt free to categorize the senator with the highest liberal voting record as "extremist":)

Back to Mcain and Romney....I think Romney would be a better President than McCain but he's got a big uphill battle. That says something because McCain is a pretty weak candidate himself. Both are light-years better than Aw Shucks Huckabee, but that's hardly big praise.

This election is shaping up as a real battle of Dems vs. repub mediocrity and a contest that will tempt some that are sitting on the sidelines right now to possibly jump in. All have warts and the kind of negatives that make others like Bloomberg(you got to be kidding) or a Gingrich or Gore think seriously that they could announce, get 15mins of fame, and win.


Submitted by concernedvoter2008 on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 10:18pm.

My concern with Romney is
http://www.withoneaccord.org/store/Romney.html

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 10:57pm.

Yet another bunch of ignorant and uneducated morons creating conspiracies of "one world government" and all those EVIL EVIL groups like freemasons. Never mind that over half the signers of the US Constitution were freemasons...they are SATANISTS and KKK members!LOL.

Yeah, I can see where people that far gone ain't going to like anyone like Mormon Romney, or anyone else with some semblance of intelligence.
They probably think retired Braves' player Dale Murphy was sent by Satan to corrupt the masses with wholesomeness.

NUK


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 11:24pm.

I'm sensing a "Swift Boat" like attack on Romney, with the silly conspiracy theories and websites starting to surface.

ROMNEY WILL CONVERT ALL TO MORMONISM - AAAAAHHHHHHHH!


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 11:36pm.

I saw this little animated video that claims to show the fundamental beliefs of Mormons and I was wondering if anyone on the blog knew if these are truly the basic beliefs of Mormonism, or if this video is stretching the truth a bit? It sounds simliar to Scientology and science fiction.

MORMON BELIEFS - ANIMATED


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 9:07am.

That video reminds me of the Scientology video that was presented on South Park--which really ticked off the Scientologists. Funny thing, though, is that it depicted what their "church" really teaches to the elite among them.

You asked for a Mormon to comment on the video. I can't help you there, but I will say that, but for a few little surprises here and there (I didn't know about the neutral people having their skin turned dark, for instance), it's all pretty square with what can be documented in their evolving beliefs.

You'll see on the YouTube site that someone wrote, "I've been a Mormon for years and I've never heard of any of this." That doesn't surprise me at all. For quite some time the LDS church has marketed itself as being a part of a seamless whole with your garden variety evangelical church, and excellent family values have been placed out front. (My former neighbors and friends of several years were Mormons and I have to say that theirs was a model of familial harmony and love.)

Anyway, all of the stuff about native Americans really being Jews whom Jesus visited centuries ago is just kind of goofy. (And this, by the way, is pretty common knowledge among Mormons.)

But the significant departure of Mormonism from classical and Biblical monotheism is expressed in the little couplet, "What man is God once was; what God is man may become." This is depicted at the very beginning of the video. It implies a radical polytheism, as well as the point that the Creator-creature distinction is one of degree rather than kind. God is not ultimate on Mormonism. Rather, a sort of Evolutionary Process that includes both God and us is the ultimate religious reality.

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 3:02pm.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 4:13pm.

Thanks.

The line, "I did not make it, it made me" comes from G.K. Chesterton in the first chapter of Orthodoxy.

No, we never saw him in concert.

I'll remind you that CCM has been a bone of contention in our marriage: she loves and appreciates it; I like the Allman Bros and the Grateful Dead.

I have, though, taken her to several concerts, including Bebo, Jars, SCC, Michael W Smith, Amy and others.

But I would much rather see the ABB play "Blue Sky" in the midst of summer with Dickey Betts out front. Smiling

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 4:56pm.

_

My husband and myself love CCM music, like I said it's like little sermons to me, some of them. It is still our favorite.

On the other hand we do like secular groups also, I was a teenager in the late 70's, so Doobie Brothers, Elton John, Jackson5 & Michael,Heart, Stix, Earth, Wind & Fire, Linoel Richie, Tina Turner, Huey Lewis and the News the list could go on and on and on.

Hey, I think you and me went opposite directions, did you like the harder groups- "Aerosmith, well even I like Walk this way and Dream on.How about Queen, Boston, Kansas- they all had a few hits that I did like- did you like them?

Radio is my husband's life- website, computers. Do I have a clue, no I don't know about any of it. Even though one of my jobs I have part time is working with a computer-if I get stuck I call him.Smiling

I did do a commercial one time only because his friend ask me to, my husband had gone somewhere for the radio station and I was filling in for the receptionist. I did not want to do it, but hey I liked his friend, and finally okay.Smiling

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:07pm.

Elton John is a little hard to ignore, as he is extraordinarily talented.

But Aerosmith, et al? Well, no.

I love music and fancy myself a musician. And so I am drawn to music that involves either great composition or musicianship. I find that my favorite guitar book (lyrics, tabs and chords) is a collection of Beatles music. But I love Clapton, Allmans, Allmans, Allmans, Grateful Dead, The Band, Neil Young, Jas. Taylor, etc., etc.

I think that a lot of what goes under the heading of "classic rock" these days is crap.

And a lot of CCM over the decades has been crappy crap--e.g, "Stryper."

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:23pm.

_

Sweet Muddle, I would never think that of you- even if you did like those groups. It's a joke.Smiling

I do think some of the CCM has been better than secular- I happen to like Jeremy Camp, Steve Camp, Russ Taff, Rich Mullins, I could go on forever. I think it's a matter of taste and what you want to get out of music. For me it's to inspire me.

BTW guess what I liked the same groups you mentioned, well Grateful wasn't my favorite.Smiling

Honestly my favorite singer is Russ Taff- a matter of taste.

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 4:44pm.

_

Especially for Main Stream- be sure and read it all.

About handsome Romney:

click here-

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 4:46pm.

Um, I don't think so.

I really don't.

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:15pm.

What you don't agree about the handsome part? Ha.Smiling

Glenn Beck who is on the radio and t.v. has his own show, says he is a Morman- Glenn Beck himself says he is a Christian, he has a personal relationship with Jesus. We ask forgiveness for our sins- that is what a Christian is.

So,how do we know Romney isn't. I have heard either way- but heavens Romney sure beats Hilliary, McCain and Obama.

I have heard some Mormon tell their belief in God, they differ just like some churches, including, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, within these denominations they differ on beliefs.

I am stating what Glenn Beck says some of Mormans believe.

How do we know Romney isn't a Christian????

Maybe we should ask him?

I will vote for him over the others if Huckabee does not win. He seems to be the only one that I think can run this country besides Huckabee-

Myself I am voting Huckabee, and proud of it. Did you see my video of Huckabee, well that is why I am voting for him. If you didn't go on down to Hold on Huckabee.Smiling

_______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:10pm.

Glen Beck is a professed Mormon. He converted from Catholicism some time ago.
He is a former alcoholic, and drug addict. He went through A,A.
He is a republican, but like McCain, has exceptions to the standard republican blurbs.
To compare a Mormon to a Methodist, or a Baptist, or other Christian religions is really stretching the faith!
If you think the Christians and the Catholics have a lot of mumbo-jumbo in their meetings and thoughts----just read about the Mormon ones!
The Creator doesn't care about such black magic, I don't think!

BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 7:05pm.

And your credibility for all these things that your talking about - what is it?

What do you believe in?

A little proper language might help.

I'm sorry I respect my parents- they did not let me use such words- must you? Putting an initial is the same as saying it.

Please don't use bpr holier than anyone bit-- I am not-it's a grace thing.

_______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:09pm.

Glen Beck is a professed Mormon. He converted from Catholicism some time ago.
He is a former alcoholic, and drug addict. He went through A,A.
He is a republican, but like McCain, has exceptions to the standard republican blurbs.
To compare a Mormon to a Methodist, or a Baptist, or other Christian religions is really stretching the faith!
If you think the Christians and the Catholics have a lot of mumbo-jumbo in their meetings and thoughts----just read about the Mormon ones!
The Creator doesn't care about such black magic, I don't think!

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:35pm.

I'm not sure that God will drop a theology final exam on our desks as a condition of entering Paradise. I'm sure I have a lot of stuf wrong (and only wish I knew which things those were), but this does not take away from a general assessment of whether a given religious tradition is consistent with the teachings of the Bible or is rational.

You have, no doubt, seen my post about the fundamental polytheism implied by Mormon teaching. The notion that "God once was what we are now" is, right or wrong, a radical departure from classical theism.

We can certainly talk about whether a candidate's religious beliefs are directly relevant to his or her candidacy. That's an interesting discussion. But I do not think that it is profitable to downplay differences among religious beliefs in order to be more inclusive regarding some candidates.

The website to which you provided a link is either disingenuous or created by someone ignorant of Mormon beliefs.

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:06pm.

You're starting to scare me. Go back and hit the books some more my dear friend. Shocked

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:18pm.

_
Who are you voting for and please read my last comment?

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 5:46pm.

Start here BPR

Also Go Here

And In Regards To Adding Anything To The Bible Go Here

Seriously BPR. You need to study this issue out more. Be careful. Your confusion on this fits the 'target' profile this cult preys on.

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:43pm.

_I am not saying I know everything about being a Mormon, I am stating what Glenn Beck has said that I heard myself.

I am not a Mormon nor do I intend to convert to one. I believe in my faith- and I am firm in my faith, I am saying what Glenn Beck says is what my choice of faith believes which is Baptist, now with that being said, there are several different Baptists- Liberal Baptists, Free Will Baptist, Missionary Baptist, Southern Baptist. There are areas even in Baptists that we differ on- like eternal security, the list could go on and on.

To me I am not adding anything to the bible- I know who GOD is and about cults- I have years ago read all the links you have sent me to- I am just stating what Glenn Beck said.

What he said stands up to are Southern Baptists beliefs. Who knows maybe he's not Mormon anymore.Smiling

Do you believe all Mormons that they are a cult?

What I am saying I heard Glenn Beck say the exact same belief of salvation that I believe- btw I don't care to say I am Southern Baptist. I am married to a P.K. Southern Baptist. I do know my belief.

I just know we differ in the Baptist faith and I know they do in the other denominations.

I am like you I heard and read all my life about Mormons and what they believe and until I heard Glen Beck state his belief, that is when I started thinking even in our own choosing of faith we differ in some of what we believe.

I am not saying Romney is a Christian- I don't know. I do believe Glenn Beck is- maybe I can get a copy of his tape.

While talking about this their is only one that has come out and said he is a Christian and that is Huckabee- Listen on down the line to my "Hold on Huckabee" on here. Does that mean I am voting for him just because he is Christian, no- I think he has what it takes to run this country. BTW if we turn our back on God we are in real trouble.

But,please don't say I am adding to the bible- no where did I do that.
Only God knows their hearts like yours and mine.

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 7:13pm.

No worries.

I do, though, hope that political considerations will not be permitted to obscure theological distinctions. There are some pretty significant Mormon departures from classical theism.

My concern with Romney is over his sincerity--not his religious beliefs. I just don't think that he is what he markets himself to be, and I can never cast a vote for him.

The guy wearing the Romney mask is, well, Romney.

I really do like Mike, but I think he has crossed some lines in his pandering to evangelicals (like myself) and does not stand a chance of winning--particularly with the tax thing.

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 8:12pm.

I really want Huckabee- but if he does not win- if it comes down to voting for McCain, Hilliary, or Obama- I can't believe I would do this- not vote - their all in the same boat.

Romney seemed to be my second choice- not all happy with everything,meaning I don't agree 100 percent, but I would vote for him to keep the others I mentioned out.

All I know is my trust is not in man but in my God I believe and trust.

Cute kid- we were married 12 years, prayers, thank God for my son, oh please don't tell me how old I will be as a grandparent. My mom was 38 when she had her first one.

Anymore grandkids? If not maybe ones on the way.Smiling

Please put your picture up tomorrow all day of you and your beautiful wife- I want to show Mr. BPR.Smiling

______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 7:58pm.

I'm not sure what you mean about sincerity when you speak of Romney, but I think you mean he has altered his opinions on several subjects running for President that he had when Governor. Of course there is a difference in the voters in a state and in the country.
The minute one decides to run for our highest office, he immediately compromises all of the insignificant things in order to get elected.
You are correct in that being a Mormon doesn't dis-qualify him from a republican vote, especially by those voters who wish to win at any cost.
If he is a conservative, then the only things he can't change are:
lazy people have no rights; welfare is sinful; you can only have what you are fortunate enough to be able to earn---meaning health insurance and such luxury; social security is evil--I don't need it and don't want to pay for it; those who provide jobs should not have to pay very much tax; the government should stay out of businessmen and preachers business; let the buyer beware--ignorant or not; rules and regulations--except in church--are hindering things; the lower public schools should be supported only by those who send their kids there; the upper schools are of course only for those who were taught proper manners and can pay for it.

We do wish that our elite could simply run everything like they used to do in most of the rest of the world, and we wouldn't have to put up with the ignorant peons, workers, and shiftless sick people who have no insurance.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 10:18am.

The last paragraph is exactly what Mormons believe. They also believe that you choose your parents before you are born. OK. Some of their stuff is pretty out there, but if people can readily and unquestionably accept virgin births, babies sailing down the Nile, humongous arcs with tons of animals, people rising from the dead, etc., some of the stranger aspects of Mormonism don't sound that much outside the realm of possibilities.

The South Park Scientology episode was hilarious. The one on Mormonism and Joseph Smith was too:)One of the truly last TV shows that doesn't mind satirizing any and every thing out there.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 10:15am.

for your opinion on the video. I appreciate your input.

The only personal experience I have had with Mormons, and Mormonism, was with my best friend in 6th grade, who was Mormon. She told me that I was NOT going to the same heaven as she was, and that although I would/could go to heaven, I would be on a "different level" of heaven than she was. Mormons went to the "better Heaven."

All I can say is, there is a good reason for the separation of church and state, which should always be in place in our government. Those who would like to change the Constitution to follow the Bible, or any religious doctrine (Book of Mormon, Koran), had better think long and hard.

Be careful what you wish for.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 11:31pm.

is the odor eminating from your upper lip. A vote for Huckabee is a vote for McCain. This Christian Conservative is voting for Romney.

Mind you I will pull the lever while holding my nose at the same time.

Hey Main Stream. Go to your own sides Kooky Websites and comment on them. Be consistent for a change.

BTW... prairie dogs are fun as heck to shoot. Eye-wink

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 4:43am.

There you go again! "Be consistent for a change"? Comment on her own sides' "kooky websites"?

Why should she?

Why should a liberal or centrist be held to a different standard than your side?

I never see you criticizing any of your fellow conservitards for their lack of being "fair and balanced".

This is an opinion blog, Git Real. Deal with it.

I'm not surprised that you are supporting Romney. You and he were made for each other: both of you support never-ending wars, and both of you support limits to free speech. It's too bad for you that the saner voices in your beloved Republican party have told you and your fellow ultraconservatives to hit the road this year. You and your kind really need your own party.

Hey, by the way, I'm voting for Obama on Tuesday. I like the guy. I can see why you'd be scared of him, though.
_______________________________________________________
The Question They Will NOT Answer:How Much Jail Time?


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 11:39pm.

Chill out turd. What got your panties in such a wad?


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 11:54pm.

Well... we'll use you as a test as to whether your "T" word is acceptable for use on the Citizen or not. I suppose you will set a precedent one way or another.

What got your panties in such a wad?

Are you always wrong? Goodness girl... They're boxers.

What's your problem, git?

No problem Man Stream. I'm just simply amazed at your vast knowledge and expertise of all the ills of the Right Wing Fringe and how, like Basmati Sniffles, you are not woman enough to hold the Left Wing Fringe to the same standards that you slam the right for. I just get a kick out of watching you dish it out and then curse me for doing the same to you.

You gotta love it.

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 12:08am.

If you're referring to my post "Mormon Conspiracy", you'll see that I used the words 'silly conspiracy theories and websites.' Silly, in referring to any fringe group, whether on the left or right.

You seem to be more frustrated and angry with your choice of candidates, than with me, so I'll leave you alone on this one, and let you commiserate with your brood.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 12:22am.

You think? We're the greatest nation on the earth and the best we can narrow this field down to is a bunch of clowns like Obama, Hillary, McCain & Romney? And you want to tell me what there is not to get angry about? Puzzled

And all you want to do is make it a Democrat vs. Republican thang?

I'll stand by and await your next barrage on someone from the right and I'll jump in to remind you of your inconsistencies and hypocrisies as you attempt your own "Swift Boat Attacks".

Oh.. and BTW. Do you view the NOW Gals as a "silly fringe group"?

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


Submitted by swmbo on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 1:28pm.

Some time ago, someone posted something on the blogs about the requirements for independent candidates to petition to get on the ballot. Turns out that Georgia has the worst ballot access requirements in the country. For the purpose of illustration and simplicity, let's use the example of an indy seeking a local office in Fayette County but, keep in mind that the hurdle is even higher for state-wide office candidates who must meet these requirements over several counties. Just to run for a seat in Fayette county (the rules differ for State-wide and local elections), an independent candidate would have to obtain roughly 3,700 valid signatures (based upon the county's at-large voting system) -- or more accurately, 5 percent of the total number of registered voters eligible to vote in the last election for the office the candidate is seeking. That means that they have to obtain probably 1/3rd more (or about 5,000 total) to allow for the political gamesmanship of party bosses who can be counted upon to stoop to any level to maintain their partisan political stronghold.

The petitions must have no more than 12 signatures per page (to accommodate the required printed name, address and date of birth); they must be numbered sequentially in a specific place on the petition (bottom, right-hand corner); and they must be grouped in a certain way (by precinct or by county district, I think). Each sheet of signatures must, further, be notarized (by a notary who cannot also have signed the petition on behalf of the candidate) as to the petitioner having personally obtained all of the signatures on the petition.

Then, there is the dizzying interplay of state and local requirements. A Fayette County Indy candidate aspirant is constricted to getting those 5,000 signatures within a state-defined, 180-day window (this year the window is no earlier than January 10th and all signatures must be submitted by July 8th). Bear in mind, an indy has to do all of this just to get on the ballot (nevermind actually winning the election). So, whereas the partisan candidates get to focus on issues, the indy is stuck with focusing on getting signatures.

And, here's the gotcha: Fail at any one of these requirements and six months of hard work (and money) evaporates into thin air. Make no mistake, all of these technical requirements are no more rationally related to protecting the electorate than the political equivalent of requiring indy candidates to jump up and down on their left foot while rubbing their stomach with their left hand and patting the top of their head with their right hand. It is no wonder that in 72 attempts to qualify an indy petition candidate in the entire State, only 1 has ever qualified and, even then, she didn't win.

Now, clearly, this is intended to keep out populist candidates who might threaten the 2-party structure which produces hold-your-nose-and-vote candidates, with of which you (and I and many, many others) are so thoroughly frustrated. And if it's this tough at the local level, can you just imagine what an indy national candidate is up against, with different states having different ballot access rules? It reminds me of the old Coke or Pepsi television commercials; they flooded the airwaves for years, portraying the consumers' choice as being limited to only those 2 brands. Everybody knew there were other brands but the commercials implied that those other brands were lesser choices, unworthy of mention.

So, here's the question: what are you willing to do to change the ballot access rules? If the answer is "nothing" then, you have no other choice than to kwitcher beefin' because we'll never get better choices until we make it possible for better candidates to have access to the voters by way of the ballot instead of the parties.

(and I'm not even gonna touch that NOW question)

-------------------------------
If you and I are always in agreement, one of us is likely armed and dangerous.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 3:05pm.

I wish it were a practical application at this moment.

I've been curious. What does SWMBO stand for? Puzzled

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


Submitted by swmbo on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 9:04pm.

Ballot access reform may not be practical now but if we don't want to keep feeling the same way every 4 years, we should start working now to make the change. Otherwise, refer to the definition of insanity. Eye-wink

As for my moniker, super sleuth that you are, I thought you would have figured me out by now. The first paragraph of this link explains the meaning of SWMBO. And, yes, that is precisely how he describes me.

. . . and, yes, I consider it a great compliment. Cool

-------------------------------
If you and I are always in agreement, one of us is likely armed and dangerous.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 10:14pm.

Ballot access reform may not be practical now but if we don't want to keep feeling the same way every 4 years, we should start working now to make the change.

Point well taken. Perhaps thinking out of the box, to use an obsolete term, may indeed be the solution. I am game. It seems that may be our only hope short of a revolution down the road. That is after the will of the voters and our freedoms are further eroded.

Otherwise, refer to the definition of insanity.

Guilty as charged. This 'least of the worst' voting habit is getting very old I do say. And the politicians are laughing all the way to the capitol.

I thought you would have figured me out by now.

Duh... sometimes it's the obvious that 'gits ya'. Outstanding moniker. I describe my bride as such on a regular basis. SWMBO is a likely pet name for Mrs. Git too! I'll have to use it. Hopefully your moniker remains uniquely yours. Eye-wink I promise to never use it in public, however I cannot promise the same in the midst of .........

I have figured you out enough to know that I do like you in spite of your occupation. Eye-wink And the fact that you never countered me on the Kingpin McNally case I set forth. I think you were going to get back to me on that one. A simple 'Uncle' would suffice. Smiling

(and I'm not even gonna touch that NOW question)

Referring back to your earlier post might I say: There is no need to respond. If your a self proclaimed leader that requires the backing of the NOW Nags then you deserve to tread water in the toilet with the rest of them. Somehow I believe you to be strong, independent and intelligent on your own accord. For that (and for what it's worth) I salute thee my litigating online friend.

Take care and keep me posted on your new movement. Now to find a worthy candidate.

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


Submitted by swmbo on Mon, 02/04/2008 - 11:06pm.

I still intend to talk about your McNally case when I can get a solid block of time. I will concede this much: recent events that I've read in The Citizen involving Mr. McNally have not done much to improve his reputation in the community.

By the way, I think you're pretty cool, too.

-------------------------------
If you and I are always in agreement, one of us is likely armed and dangerous.

yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 9:07pm.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 10:54am.

I believe your party will most likely initiate that on their own.

And of course it’s a Democrat vs. Republican thing, on this crazy blog, so why demonize me for something you love to do – argue about politics and current events. You’re the one being inconsistent, git.

I’m not so sure that NOW can be categorized as a “silly fringe group” like you suggest. I suppose in the mind of a conservative, such as yourself, they might look that way. However, the fringe groups and extremist elements that I take issue with are the ones on both sides, that inflict hatred and violence like Eric Rudolph, the abortion clinic bomber and the Westboro Baptist Church (god hates fags)from the far-right and the eco-terrorists from the far-left.

I believe those grannies’s dressed in pink are terrific and I commend them for demonstrating peacefully and exercising their right to do so. I also loved what Cindy Sheehan did as well, until groups on both the left and right, turned her cause into a media circus.

I’m a liberal, git, and I support liberal causes, so of course I support these groups. I would be a hypocrite if I did not. And you take issue with that?


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 9:50am.

The NOW Gals are a silly fringe group.

And Eagles DO flock! Here's proof:

Flock of Eagles


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 2:55pm.

Yikes! I stand corrected. Next time I'll specify what type of eagle.

And thanks Jeff. NOW is a silly fringe group. As a second ammendment defender, I can point out a group or too from the right that scare me the same as the NOW Nags do. I appreciate you and Yardman and I'm growing to respect you guys more as I get to know you better in spite of or differences.

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:37am.

I have to agree with Git. "We're the greatest nation on earth and the best we can narrow this field down to is a bunch of clowns like Obama. Hillary, MaCain & Romney?" While I do not necessarily feel that they are all clowns, I DO feel that there must be better candidates out there...ones who more truly represent the political feelings of a greater number of citizens. Some other solution? Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 2:59pm.

Are a result of agreeing that we all have a very poor selection of candidates in which to choose. I hope it didn't send chills up your spine just because you agree with me on something. Shocked

Thanks for reasonable agreement.

Hey! How about a Reagan - Truman match-up? Smiling

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 11:00am.

I believe that the Republicans this year have put forward the best and the brightest candidates that the Republicans have to offer! (I realize that's not saying much). Smiling

I'm supporting Obama...I'd narrowed my choices down to Edwards and Obama and Mr. Edwards made the decision for me when he bowed out last week.

In any event, any of the candidates currently running from either party (with the exception of Romney, of course) is a marked improvement over the current White House occupant.
_______________________________________________________
The Question They Will NOT Answer:How Much Jail Time?


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 3:01pm.

Would support Hitler, Stalin, or Hugo Chavez as long as they wore a 'D' at the end of their name.

________
In regards to Democrats, Republicans, gangs, and other scads of coterie Kool-Aide drinkers; Remember this..... Eagles Don't Flock


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Mon, 02/04/2008 - 11:37pm.

You talking about me?

You list a bunch of unsavory characters; then you assign them to me and in a state of high dudgeon then wring your hands and tell me who I would vote for?

The argument borders on a parataxic distortion and seems to be your standard technique against me. How very...Conneresque!

As I told you last month, I vote for the best candidate available, just like you CLAIM to. For example, two months ago I voted for Republican Steve Brown over his Democratic challenger because I felt Brown was the best candidate. Contrast that to your purported stance....when push comes to shove you either hold your nose and vote Republican or you stay home and don't vote. Personally, I don't care one iota who you vote for, but you have to admit it's a wee bit hypocritical for you to say you vote for the best candidate when in actuality you don't

Has your middle school daughter wised up to the fact that dear old Dad doesn't practice what he preaches? Sticking out tongue

_______________________________________________________
The Question They Will NOT Answer:How Much Jail Time?


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 02/06/2008 - 8:37pm.

(Joe) Bidenish? (Jason) Blairish?

Snif: "When you're doing your patented cut-and-paste could you at least provide a name for point of reference?"

Good advice. Who's words did you cut and paste? At least I have a patent on my technique. Eye-wink


"Still more cut and paste"
-- "You're very accomplished at cut and paste." Is this the mark of a modern, computer-savvy woman? Laughing out loud


"DENISE CONNER:
16 paragraphs of unrelated cut and paste, 13 links, 4 non-sequiturs"

"Life is too short, ghoul" -- "Denise's pissy Shocked little 'gotcha' questioning. Lengthy cut-n-pastes with precious original thought may appeal to bottom-feeders like you." Shocked


GO HERE for Snif's idea of "original thought."
Laughing out loud

Just who is "Sniffles 1-5"? Puzzled


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 6:58am.

I'm not completely satisfied with the Republican side. I suspect a repeat of 1976 is about to happen. One thing though, after this Tuesday we'll have a clearer picture of who the front runners are.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 8:37pm.

I use "extremist" and "radical" and "fringe" just for Richard's sake. It enlivens my blogs with him!


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 7:33pm.

Interesting blog, Jeff.

My feeling is that the Republican party has reverted to its historical norm by coalescing behind John McCain as the candidate of choice. If you go back as far as the Ford administration, you'll see that the "establishment" Republicans traditionally pick the oldest candidate (Ford,Reagan,Bush I, Dole) to be their spokesperson/candidate. Bush II was the exception to the rule, a "perfect storm" if you will.

The establishment was willing to take a chance on Dubya due to his pedigree. They thought he was "one of them".

Obviously, he wasn't. He ended up being a social conservative and a fiscal liberal (not unlike Huckabee today).

What's really interesting is that the social wing of the republican party, which was never more than 20-30% of the party to begin with, got it in their collective heads that THEY were the driving force behind the Republican party. They aren't, and will never be. The social conservatives have a symbiotic relationship with the fiscal conservatives: they both need each other, and a smattering (5-8% or so) of independents to win an election.

If the social wingnuts pick another Bush (say, Huckabee), the fiscal Repubs will stay home. The fiscals have flexed their muscle (they outnumber the social wingnuts about 5:3 if memory serves) and picked McCain, and now the social wingnuts (see also: Git Real) are making noises like they will sit this election out. Good news in any event for Democrats!

What can the Republicans do? They can get on their collective knees and pray to Beezlebub or Baal or whichever demon it is fashionable for them to worship nowadays and pray that Hillary gets the Democratic nomination.

In the topsy-turvey election calculus of 2008, Hillary Clinton is the only human being on Earth that can possibly unite the fractured Republican party, their hatred of her transcending mere political posturing.

If Hillary does not get the Democratic nod in 2008, I predict a Democratic electoral tidal wave of near-Biblical proportions. The vast number of people under 30 came of political age under the mismanagement of George W. Bush, and they are eager for change. They are voting overwhelmingly Democratic (over 70%) and if this trend continues we likely will not see a Republican president again in 20 or so years.

We live in interesting times.

_______________________________________________________
The Question They Will NOT Answer:How Much Jail Time?


NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 8:10pm.

...is that George H and W have made the political landscape impossible terrain for one of the best the republicans have to offer: Jeb Bush. Jeb is easily the best of the family, was VERY popular in Florida, can get the Hispanic vote because he "gets it" and doesn't have to pander, and knows when to be pragmatic in order to get things accomplished.

Don't see any electoral tidal-wave by Dems or Repubs...ever. Both have had ample chances over history and both manage to screw it up royally whenever it appears like they have the other party dead and buried. How else can you explain how post-Nixon the Dems could hold the WH for one term? Or post-Reagan the Repubs also had the WH for only one term? What's even worse is how when one party gets control of both the House and Senate, they REALLY blow it!

NUK


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 02/03/2008 - 11:11am.

I agree.

I have a family member who got to know him rather well through business, and he also seems quite genuine. But he would stand a better chance of metapmorphosing into a pheasant than making a successful presidential bid given the animosity toward his older sibling and dad.

-----------------

Grandchild # 5 (the local)


Submitted by sageadvice on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 7:50pm.

for the republicans to be wiped out. We need a two party system in order to throw the bums out every so often.

I have done my best to point out what was causing this catastrophe many times. With such idiots as Limbaugh, Hannity, O"Reilly, Coulter, Will, and numerous other haranguers who make a living pushing the envelope, it couldn't last much longer.
So be it.
These "conservatives" are similar to today's video-preachers----entertaining and false!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 7:48pm.

I predict a Democratic electoral tidal wave of near-Biblical proportions.

Don't get too giddy. The same thing was said in 1976. Out went the Republicans and in came the Democrats. And how long did the Democrats have the White House?

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


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