Fair Tax Supporters

It is great that we have been having such a lively discussion about Tax Reform, because no matter what you support, we can all agree our 60,000 page Tax Code needs to be FIXED!!

Mike Huckabee, has brought forth a plan that does not tweak the system, but rather completely does away with it. It will return the power back to the people, and get the government out of our wallets. While some claim they want to "reform the tax code" some candidates have actually presented a plan of substance and not the common day "class war fair" and propaganda.

I do want to point out that Mike Huckabee did not come up with the Fair Tax, in fact here is a short list of Economist that either helped create the plan or support the plan.

Donald L. Alexander
Professor of Economics
Western Michigan University

Wayne Angell
Angell Economics

Jim Araji
Professor of Agricultural
Economics
University of Idaho

Ray Ball
Graduate School of Business
University of Chicago

Roger J. Beck
Professor Emeritus
Southern Illinois University,

Carbondale
John J. Bethune
Kennedy Chair of Free
Enterprise

Barton College
David M. Brasington
Louisiana State University

Jack A. Chambless
Professor of Economics
Valencia College

Christopher K. Coombs
Louisiana State University

William J. Corcoran, Ph.D.
University of Nebraska at
Omaha

Eleanor D. Craig
Economics Department
University of Delaware

Susan Dadres, Ph.D.
Department of Economics
Southern Methodist University

Henry Demmert
Santa Clara University

Arthur De Vany
Professor Emeritus
Economics and Mathematical
Behavioral Sciences

University of California, Irvine
Pradeep Dubey
Leading Professor
Center for Game Theory
Dept. of Economics

SUNY at Stony Brook
Demissew Diro Ejara
William Paterson University of
New Jersey

Patricia J. Euzent
Department of Economics
University of Central Florida

John A. Flanders
Professor of Business and
Economics
Central Methodist University

Richard H. Fosberg, Ph.D.
William Paterson University

Gary L. French, Ph.D.
Senior Vice President
Nathan Associates Inc.

Professor James Frew
Economics Department
Willamette University

K. K. Fung
University of Memphis

Satya J. Gabriel, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics and
Finance
Mount Holyoke College

Dave Garthoff
Summit College

The University of Akron
Ronald D. Gilbert
Associate Professor of
Economics
Texas Tech University

Philip E. Graves
Department of Economics
University of Colorado

Bettina Bien Greaves, Retired
Foundation for Economic
Education

John Greenhut, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Finance & Business Economics
School of Global Management
and Leadership
Arizona State University

Darrin V. Gulla
Dept. of Economics
University of Georgia

Jon Halvorson
Assistant Professor of
Economics
Indiana University of
Pennsylvania

Reza G. Hamzaee, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics &
Applied Decision Sciences
Department of Economics
Missouri Western State College

James M. Hvidding
Professor of Economics
Kutztown University

F. Jerry Ingram, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics and
Finance
The University of Louisiana-
Monroe

Drew Johnson
Fellow
Davenport Institute for Public
Policy
Pepperdine University

Steven J. Jordan
Visiting Assistant Professor
Virginia Tech
Department of Economics

Richard E. Just
University of Maryland

Dr. Michael S. Kaylen
Associate Professor
University of Missouri

David L. Kendall
Professor of Economics and
Finance
University of Virginia's College
at Wise

Peter M. Kerr
Professor of Economics
Southeast Missouri State
University

Miles Spencer Kimball
Professor of Economics
University of Michigan

James V. Koch
Department of Economics
Old Dominion University

Laurence J. Kotlikoff
Professor of Economics
Boston University

Edward J. López
Assistant Professor
University of North Texas

Franklin Lopez
Tulane University

Salvador Lopez
University of West Georgia

Yuri N. Maltsev, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
Carthage College

Glenn MacDonald
John M. Olin Distinguished
Professor of Economics and
Strategy
Washington University in St.
Louis

Dr. John Merrifield,
Professor of Economics
University of Texas-San
Antonio

Dr. Matt Metzgar
Mount Union College

Carlisle Moody
Department of Economics
College of William and Mary

Andrew P. Morriss
Galen J. Roush Professor of
Business Law & Regulation
Case Western Reserve
University School of Law

Timothy Perri
Department of Economics
Appalachian State University

Mark J. Perry
School of Management and
Department of Economics
University of Michigan-Flint

Timothy Peterson
Assistant Professor
Economics and Management
Department
Gustavus Adolphus College

Ben Pierce
Central Missouri State
University

Michael K. Pippenger, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of
Economics
University of Alaska

Robert Piron
Professor of Economics
Oberlin College

Mattias Polborn
Department of Economics
University of Illinois

Joseph S. Pomykala, Ph.D.
Department of Economics
Towson University

Barry Popkin
University of North Carolina-
Chapel Hill

Steven W. Rick
Lecturer, University of
Wisconsin
Senior Economist, Credit Union
National Association

Paul H. Rubin
Samuel Candler Dobbs
Professor of Economics & Law
Department of Economics
Emory Univeristy

John Ruggiero
University of Dayton

Michael K. Salemi
Bowman and Gordon Gray
Professor of Economics
University of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill

Dr. Carole E. Scott
Richards College of Business
State University of West
Georgia

Carlos Seiglie
Dept. of Economics
Rutgers University

John Semmens
Economist
Phoenix College
Arizona

Alan C. Shapiro
Ivadelle and Theodore Johnson
Professor of Banking and
Finance
Marshall School of Business
University of Southern
California

Dr. Stephen Shmanske
Professor of Economics
California State University,
Hayward

James F. Smith
University of North Carolina-
Chapel Hill

Vernon L. Smith
Economist
W. James Smith
Dean of Liberal Arts and
Sciences and Professor of
Economics
University of Colorado at
Denver

John C. Soper
Boler School of Business
John Carroll University

Roger Spencer
Professor of Economics
Trinity University

Daniel A. Sumner, Director,
University of California
Agricultural Issues Center
and the Frank H. Buck, Jr.,
Chair Professor,
Department of Agricultural and
Resource Economics,

University of California,
Davis
Curtis R. Taylor
Professor of Economics and
Business

Duke University
Robert Vigil
Analysis Group, Inc.

John H. Wicks, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus
Department of Economics
University of Montana

F. Scott Wilson, Ph.D.
Canisius College

Mokhlis Y. Zaki
Professor of Economics
Emeritus
Northern Michigan University

HMMMMM MAYBE IT'S A GOOD IDEA???

FairTax support group

Submitted by Gilan on Wed, 01/16/2008 - 4:27pm.

We invite you to share your expertise in economics with the group. Help support the FairTax.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairTax/

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Ain't got no expertise in economics

Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 01/16/2008 - 4:41pm.

I do have some small expertise in politics and I can't wait to have my Democrats up against a candidate that is going to cut their paycheck then impose a 23% tax on the rent, mortgage and credit card interest, tax payouts from insurance companies, tax disability and long-term care insurance payments, add another 60 to 70 cent tax on a gallon of gasoline, tax their legal bills, their accounting bills, add a 23% tax to their utility bills, add another 23% to their medical bills, the list goes on and on. H.R. 25 is advertised as a comprehensive tax and it surely is! Bring on the election.

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Has any FairTaxer Anywhere

Submitted by JeffC on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 9:47pm.

Ever answered the question:

HOW MUCH DO YOU EXPECT MY PAYCHECK TO BE CUT?

Is it rude of me to ask? Should I just be willing to bend over here and not raise the issue?

I'm starting a new blog asking the Georgia FairTAx guys.

Shelby, please don't take his as an attack on Huckabee. I like him. If my guy doesn't win then Huckabee looks to me like a good man.

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paycheck

Submitted by Ashford Schwall on Fri, 01/11/2008 - 7:25pm.

Why do you think your paycheck would be cut under the FairTax ? Everyone works x$ per hour, or week or year etc. That does not change. At best it would rise when you take home your FICA, SS, and Medicare. Perhaps more if ypur employer passes on the saved payroll tax.

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Hmmmm, maybe not

Submitted by bowser on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 4:23pm.

Mr. Barker is obviously from the "throw enough at the wall and some will stick" school of advocacy. Fair enough.

Without going through this list one-by-one, I'd be curious as to how many of these folks specifically favor the Fair Tax as proposed in HB25, and how many have spoken or written in favor of the general theory of a consumption tax as a revenue generator. There IS a difference, as I recently outlined when Mr. Barker falsely implied that Alan Greenspan is a Fair Tax advocate.

Mr. Barker, let's discuss one element of the Fair Tax.

If you favor the FairTax, you favor a new system that would make most US households dependent on a government check every month.

That would be the "Prebate," which is hardly the only flaw in this cockamamie plan but by far the biggest in my view.

The prebate is a monthly federal payout based on family size. Why is there a prebate? Because it is the only way the Fair Tax con men could come up with to negate the hideously regressive nature of an across-the-board national sales tax.

You get this check at the start of the month, to offset the huge sales tax you’re about to pay on necessities, up to the poverty level. This is to ensure that poor people aren't screwed by having to spend a disproportionate amount of their money on the tax on necessities. So the government collects this money, sends it to you, then collects it from you again. If it sounds loopy, welcome to la-la land. And this is the brilliant plan to get the government out of our lives?!?

The President's Commission on Tax Reform concluded that the Prebate program would cost $600 to $800 billion a year, more than the budgets of eight federal agencies combined (including Defense) and becoming the largest entitlement program in American history. And that's before the inevitable tinkering that would happen when Congress got a hold of it and started adding "regional adjustments" and one-time boosts for special circumstances. Unless you are prepared to repeal our republican democracy, bank on it getting more expensive over time.

It also concluded that, while there might no longer be an IRS, it would take a sizable federal bureaucracy to administer the Prebate. It would have to track every US household, verify its size and try to police the inevitable avalanche of fraud that would result from such a dole-out program.

If ever there would be a case of the devil being in the details, this would be it.

Fair Tax supporters rarely bring up the Prebate, and when they do they blithely suggest it will be accomplished through electronic deposits or refillable debit cards. Ooooooh, debit cards. Wheeeee!

The Federal Reserve has estimated there are 11 million or more Americans with no bank accounts. They wouldn't know what to do with a refillable debit card if you dumped a truckload in their front yard. Many low income people are itinerant or otherwise live "off the grid," which is their right. And these are the very folks who would most need the prebate!

Currently, we ease the tax burden on low income folks in the simplest way possible -- they don't pay income tax! And we exempt many necessities from state and local sales taxes to ease the regressivity.

Under Fair Tax, we'd tax the living hell out of everything and everybody and use this idiotic cash payout scheme to try to fix the damage.

This is a profound change from both a financial and cultural standpoint, and not for the better. The Prebate is a nightmare waiting to happen.

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cockamamie plan?

Submitted by Ashford Schwall on Fri, 01/11/2008 - 7:36pm.

cockamamie plan ? Fair Tax con men?

you sound rather hostile. I can assure you that the FairTax Act, H.R. 25 is no "cockamamie plan".. It is no fly-by-night idea written by Congressional aides and small-town college professors. When economists from places like Harvard, Stanford, Rice, MIT, etc. develop something new like this, it's no sideshow.

• WHY DO WE PENALIZE LABOR AND PRODUCTION WITH THE INCOME TAX?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS FOR WORKING?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS BY TAXING OVERTIME?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS BY TAXING SAVINGS?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS BY TAXING INVESTMENTS?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS FOR BUILDING WEALTH?
• WHY DO WE PENALIZE WORKING AMERICANS BY PASSING ON BIZ TAXES AND COMPLIANCE COSTS EMBEDED IN THE PRICE OF A PRODUCT?
• WHY CAN’T WE SET WORKING AMERICANS FREE BY PASSING THE FAIR TAX ACT?

After truly understanding the FAIRTAX:
The only people who hate it are the "income tax profiteers".
Included are career politicians, lobbyists, tax lawyers, tax accountants, the non working rich, IRS agents, illegal aliens and rhe underground economy. Get ready for even more distortions and lies by those who profit from the income tax system.

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I'm not hostile, Mr. Schwall,

Submitted by bowser on Sat, 01/12/2008 - 7:21pm.

But I am definitely opposed to this cockamamie plan put forth by con men.

I am opposed because I believe the FairTax, aka Huge National Sales Tax on Everything, would be disastrous for my country and my fellow citizens.

Meanwhile, Mr. Schwall, I guess we can put you down as:

-- FOR a plan that creates a massive new cash entitlement program, aka the Prebate. It requires the government to track, verify and pre-pay all US households every month for the huge sales tax they will have to pay on necessities, plus police the massive fraud such a program will invite, and

-- FOR making all US households -- except those so well-off the Prebate doesn't matter -- dependent on a federal payout every month. Talk about giving the government control of the pursestrings...even Karl Marx would blush!

It's a bold position, Mr. Schwall, I'll give you that much.

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Marx?

Submitted by Ashford Schwall on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 6:25pm.

Well Luckydog , I’m, not sure how you arrived at Karl Marx.
“Talk about giving the government control of the pursestrings...even Karl Marx would blush!
It's a bold position, Mr. Schwall, I'll give you that much.”
The FairTax is the opposite of Marx in that it taxes consumption and not income.

Let us be reminded that point number 2 of THE TEN POINTS OF COMMUNISM FROM THE COMMUNIST MANEFESTO sates “2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.”
What plan can you offer that stops taxing production?
Ashford Schwall

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Sorry, Ashford...

Submitted by bowser on Thu, 02/07/2008 - 9:45am.

Just noticed you had responded -- though not really.

But leaving Marx aside, please explain why you are FOR making most US households dependent on a federal check every month? None of you Flat-Earthers, er, Fair-Taxers seem to want to acknowledge and address that intriguing feature of your miracle-cure plan....

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Prebate is awesome

Submitted by Shelby Barker on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 5:08pm.

I think the prebate is a great idea.

When I discuss the Fair Tax program with people, the first thing I mention is that it gives the power back to the people. Right now the Govt. has the ability to control things that we buy by giving us tax hikes, breaks, returns etc... The Fair Tax would give the power back to the people and allow us to make our own decisions with out penalty. I also mention the fact that it is a transparent tax, on both sides. Although people will still be able to cheat the system (that is the American way), the number will dramatically decrease.

The second thing that I mention is the prebate. This is an amazing idea.
First, the Fair Tax prebate helps with the necessities of life, but as important, the Fair Tax prebate will help with slow the flow of illegal immigrants.

Right now while you, me, and every other legal person blogging on this website, is paying our share of taxes, there are a substantial amount of illegal immigrants busy taking, not paying, their share from the system. They are getting a free ride, in one of the greatest countries in the world, with little incentive or need to become legal.

There is no doubt we are facing an epidemic problem in the flow of un-documented immigrants to this country. With the Fair Tax, not only will everyone in the country pay 23%; from the pimps to the drug dealers, we will also create an incentive for the illegal immigrants to become legal.

Mike Huckabee out lines this in his 9 step illegal immigration plan.

It is not enough to build a fence across the borders, because they can simply go around it.
Because illegal immigrants will not get the prebate, the Fair Tax creates an economic boarder and a strong drive to become legal!!!

Only citizens, or people that are here legally will get the prebate.

In his plan he also outlines, that the system that makes people legal must be made more efficient, so that it doesn’t take 7 years to go through the process.

I love that we can talk so patiently about TAXES. These kinds of conversations are the driving forces that come up with solutions.

Huckabee 08'

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Oh for god's sake....

Submitted by bowser on Thu, 01/10/2008 - 5:34pm.

And I suppose the Fair Tax will cure lower back pain and remove warts, too....

I can see why you are a Huckster supporter, Mr. Barker. You share his gift for glibly ducking details and shifting the subject.

But anyway let's just be clear -- you find it "awesome" (what are you, 14?) that your beloved plan would require the biggest cash entitlement program in US history and make most households dependent on a federal payout every month.

We agree on this much: That truly is, as you put it, an "amazing idea."

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