Soldiers and Miners

Mine safety! Beat down by mine lobbiers and the administration, and those idiots who don't like regulation of industry, have struck again in two states last week. Any idiot knows not to mine out precarious soft pillows that hold a mountain up, and run like hell if it rumbles! It is the cheap way and a few miners lives and serious injuries is worth it, right?
Amateur war planners are treating our soldiers the same way. Too few to do the job in Iraq, call up enormous quantities of our Guard and Reserves, also too few and too late, and even fail in that!
Didn't even plan on casualties and how to take care of them in the very best way!
I won't even discuss the "surge," it is faked and will not work, and is being used as a diversion for the next failure.
The USA is better than all these severe problems at home and away from home. What is wrong with the right wing dumbbells who won't turn on this mess, admit a huge goof, and do what is necessary to get back on track?

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Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 3:12pm.

Oh Yeah, there has been no changes in mining legislation since the 1800s. Please enlighten us, what specific legislation has this "administration" stopped?
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Twenty six miles across the sea......


Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:15pm.

Ask your congressman for the Sago WV mine report. None of that has been implemented yet, and won't be soon, if ever.
Retreat mining such as in Utah has been deemed totally unsafe numerous times and all the administration will do or say is let Industry police itself! The democrats did force a hearing on Sago, but can't get anything done as long as the President and his cabinet are in power. They want the coal.
Look up coal mining safety legislation if you want to know! You don't really.
I know a great deal about coal mines. Have lost many friends and neighbors in those pits. Coal miner heritage is to follow Dad into
the mine. I did notice Utah mines are full of Hispanics.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:33pm.

need my congressman for the report. It's available on-line. Now, I challenge you to find it and show me that the explosion that cause this tragedy was caused by a failure to follow the rules.
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Twenty six miles across the sea......


Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:53pm.

There are rules they don't follow whether you want to know them or not.

But let us assume there were no rules to cover a seam of coal exploding from the weight of a mountain. Let's say seismic readings show that hundreds of mountain settlings had occurred before the cave in (records are available) yet you continued to operate the mine, dragging more and more coal out as pillars of coal were were torn down more and more until the seismic activity and removing of seam pillars finally exploded!
Rules you say, rules! Idiocy. They do this stuff in China and Russia!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 4:57pm.

Back to Sago. Read the report. What broken rules casued the explosion?
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Twenty six miles across the sea......


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 7:00pm.

$, you will be surprise at what I know. FYI, MSHA did not take into account the potential for electromagnetic energy created by a horizontal lighting discharge to radiate through and induce a voltage in a conductor was not recognized. That is, a lighting bolt hit nearby and radiated into the mine and caused a methane pocket (sealed area) to explode. The resultant explosion caused pressures in the mine to rise above +90 psi which caused the omega block seals to fail. The seals met the current standard of 20 psi. The failed seals were not longer effective which allowed CO levels to rise which caused the miners demise.

As for the oversight of the mine, it was determined that the problems noted during those inspections could not have prevented the tragedy.

BTW, since I’m in the “oversight field” I had to read this report last year.

http://www.msha.gov/Readroom/FOIA/2007InternalReviews/Sago%20Internal%20Review%20Report.pdf

One other thing, working conditions for mines are codified meaning they’re Laws of realm. See 30 CFR 47 through 50. As a CFR (Code of Federal Regulation), Congress votes on them to change.
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Twenty six miles across the sea......


Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 5:54pm.

Sago mine had been cited by Mine Safety (federal) numerous times for too much methane gas accumulation and too much fine coal dust (explosive) accumulation. You read it!
They also had just re-started every piece if equipment in the mine after a holiday, apparently without properly inspecting for methane and dust. Starting equipment causes sparks and heat!
All of the mines run by the company who owned Sago bought them on the courthouse steps due to the former companies who owned them going bankrupt! They ONLY bought the NON UNION mines, none of the union mines, then dropped all benefits of the miners when they started up. The government allowed it all.

Same goes for Bob Murray in Utah. He bought in the same way all his mines, no-unions, no benefits, and no catching up on safety violations. He was mining the Pillars that were previously left, pillars when mined allow the mountain to shift and explode other seams holding up the mountain. Murry's company laid off much of the work force when he bought, just before Christmas. Did not need all for pillar mining!
The government paid no attention, other than to issue citations and small fines, and letters and more letters.
Mining is a nasty business. To mine safely would make coal cost maybe 20% more. Ain't worth it I suppose.

I don't think you know jack Shoot about coal mining, nor do you care as long as Bush gets his way.

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 3:24pm.

You know facts get in the way of his statements.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 3:29pm.

I forgot. Having been off the site you do forget things. I'll do better in the future. Did you go to the band meeting last week?

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Twenty six miles across the sea......


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 3:40pm.

Yeah, we voted to go to London{ who according to manofgreatlogic and the dollar really controls our Federal Reserve], for the 08-09 New Years Parade. I was also at the school for 6 hours yesterday helping to clean up around the trailers and weedwhacking the corner between the trailers. We took a large pickup load of stuff to the dump and worked on the carts for awhile. It took longer becausr there was only 3 of us. What does your tag line refer to? the English Channel?

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/19/2007 - 3:58pm.

Ah yes, merry old London. I heard that the estimate was $2,200. That's about four hundred more than last time. It's a great investment to make for your child.

I'm sorry I could not make it yesterday. Next weekend is up-in-the-air as I got to make a trip to Derby, England. The things I do for money.

Oh my tag line. I was feeling a bit nostalgic. The song was by The Preps (1958). "Twenty six miles across the sea - Santa Catalina is a'waiting for me"... I used to spend my summers as kid on our family's boat at Catalina island fishing and skin diving. I wish I could do that today.

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Twenty six miles across the sea......


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