Evidence left behind may ID F’ville bank robber

Thu, 08/16/2007 - 1:24pm
By: John Munford
Police hoping for DNA match on criminal database



Click HERE to see the photo of the gunman.

The man who robbed the Southcrest Bank in Fayetteville shortly after 9 a.m. Wednesday came prepared to execute the crime.

But he was sloppy, dropping an estimated three-quarters of the money in a wooded area behind the bank as he made his getaway, said Beverly Trainor of the Fayetteville Police Department. The gunman also left behind the white glove that he wore on his right hand during the heist, Trainor added.

Though the gunman remained unidentified as of Thursday afternoon, the glove and other evidence is being processed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for possible DNA samples, Trainor said, noting that the glove was “really sweaty.” If DNA can be recovered, it could then be compared against databases containing DNA samples of known criminals to perhaps identify the gunman, Trainor said.

The FBI also is processing ballistics evidence in the case, and will also be offering a reward in the case, Trainor added.

A video of the robbery released by Fayetteville police showed the suspect walking into the bank wearing a white glove on his right hand while carrying a yellow plastic bag, with his left hand concealed apparently in his pocket. About three steps after entering in the bank he pulls out his left hand to reveal a silver handgun, which was either in his pocket or concealed under his baggy oversized shirt.

Almost immediately after entering the bank, the gunman fired one shot into a wall, but no one was injured, Trainor said.

Another camera angle of video showed the gunman approaching the teller’s counter, throwing the plastic bag on the counter, aggressively thrusting the pointed gun in the teller’s direction and giving what appear to be verbal commands (the video does not contain any sound). At one point he turns around and points the gun towards what appears to be a desk area and then he turns back to the teller, grabbing the yellow bag with the cash inside before he leaves the bank.

Police and sheriff's deputies combed the area looking for the suspect on foot with K-9 dogs and overhead with the helicopter from the Fayette County Sheriff’s Department, but he could not be located, police said.

It was initially thought that the gunman may have been involved in a second robbery of a bank in East Point hours later in which two arrests were made, but that has proved not to be the case so far, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. It is still a possibility, however, that one of them may have committed the SouthCrest robbery, Trainor added.

Police described the suspect as a tall thin black male with a black hat with a "G" University of Georgia logo, and wearing a blue button-up shirt. He also wore sunglasses.

K-9 units were unsuccessful in trying to pick up the suspect's scent and the sheriff's department's helicopter assisted in the search, police said.

Nearby schools, including East Fayette Elementary, Hood Avenue, Fayetteville Intermediate, Fayette County High School and the Lafayette Education Center were put on lockdown, which lasted about half an hour, police said.

The school lockdown occurred just as police received reports the suspect was possibly near the Just Brakes business and moments later at a practice field at Fayette County High School. School spokesperson Melinda Berry-Dreisbach said the system's administrative office also remained under lockdown.

The gunman fled the bank, located at the intersection of Ga. Highway 85 and Kathi Avenue, with an undetermined amount of money, Trainor said. An automatic phone system was used to call local businesses to alert them to be cautious and on the lookout for the suspect and the automated message also shared a description of the suspect.

There were four employees inside the bank, but no customers, at the time of the robbery, police said.

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Paul Perkins's picture
Submitted by Paul Perkins on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 10:54am.

Last question: If you are a "right to privacy" type who actually sounds to agree with the ACLU on this one, what do you think of the Patriot Act?

I'm sure you will get a well-reasoned response from Denise on the above question, but I thought I would throw in an opinion as well.

I'm a strong conservative and disgruntled with both parties for their lack of a consistent stand on moral, social, and economic issues.

I don't necessarily question the President's intent, but I think the Patriot Act is the worst piece of legislation since the since the Alien and Sedition Act of 1798.

Take a look at Napolitano's book The Constitution in Exile for the best explanation that I've seen.

Here's a link to Attorney Whitehead's blog a few months ago on this subject.


Submitted by tikigod on Mon, 08/20/2007 - 1:30am.

I know this one crime doesn't mean its the end, but there is a nasty trend here in Fayetteville. I am sick of seeing it and I am sick of seeing not enough done about it. I completely agree with the sentiment that willing and competent citizens should feel compelled to carry a weapon.

I have seen a quote from Sheriff Johnson mentioned numerous times that goes something like, "Criminals know where the Fayette County line is..." and I think some of the new residents to the counties north of us have not been made aware. My job requires me to be out and about exclusively in the city of Fayetteville and the surrounding area frequently during day and nighttime hours. There is an undeniable lack of police presence in the north end of Fayetteville and northern Fayette County. I can regularly maintain a speed of 60-70 miles an hour on 85N through a 45 mph construction zone. and when i say regularly, i mean ON A DAILY BASIS.

Now I know i shouldn't speed, but nearly everyone else around me is going the same speed. Most of those tags are from Clayton.

What kind of signal does that send to the large criminal element that resides in Clayton/S. Fulton County? Probably the idea that law enforcement is lax and that this is a good place to commit crimes. I'm sure the thugs really perk up when they see how little patrolled the Pavilion is. If the sheriff and city police just beefed up their presence in the north end of the county, it would do wonders for our city Smiling

Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 08/20/2007 - 6:21am.

This stinks and we are short of cops.

The small city of Sandy Springs has 100 cops, and they are planning on hiring 120-140 according to their web page. We are going to have to pay an increase in taxes to make this happen. Our crime is increaseing everyday and we need to do something about it, or move.

The only time we aren't short of cops is every morning that I'm running late for work.

Submitted by blabbermouth on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:09pm.

goofball and doofus are two that come to mind!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:14pm.

target practice, Smiling


Submitted by blabbermouth on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:19pm.

shouldn't have been too hard to hit. Anybody that would risk his behind robbing a bank and then dropping (estimated) 3/4 of the money should be shot.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:22pm.

That this guy wanted to get caught or possibly killed. Puzzled

Or is he just simply that stupid?

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by blabbermouth on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:24pm.

You know how we are. Ya'll watch this...

Submitted by 30YearResident on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 8:50am.

He didn't have his automatic turned sideways. Smiling

Submitted by Bubba on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 9:32am.

We need increased law enforcement presence now. That would be a good use of the tax increase.

itbutbu's picture
Submitted by itbutbu on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 9:01am.

Now is the time for Americans to come out of their shells. All of the politically correct people need to get a grip.
Racial and ethnic profiling is a bunch of crap. If Muslims have valued to kill Americans, why are we strip searching 70 year old white Christian females?
In the case of the bank robbery suspect, should the Police spend their resources picking up white suspects the might fit the robbers description. We do not want to offend anyone.
It is what it is and if the baby is ugly the baby is ugly.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 7:51pm.

That baby is gonna take some getting used to. And you guys thought my Lion was freaky? Ouch...I'll bet that baby scares the hell out it's own poopy diaper. Shocked

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:06pm.

That avatar has got to go!!! I can't read your post without breaking out into rather large belly laugh. Those eyes just stare at you.

-------------------------------------------
Conservatism – apply it directly to the forehead.


Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:16pm.

An Avatar is what someone chooses. Not what you want them to choose. Grow up. You sound like a Bully in elementary school that says "I don't like your Lunch" I would reply F off. Gosh can you be MORE RUDE.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 7:53pm.

Chill Sweet Heart! Surely you're not that humorless. Puzzled

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 8:01pm.

Its cool. I think she apologized. But if she is from the San Fernando Valley I would have.........

-------------------------------------------
Conservatism – apply it directly to the forehead.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 8:56pm.

Wow! She had no right. Even if you do wear spandex. Evil

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:32pm.

Tell spandex boy you are sorry. Chill out. Hang back until you understand our sarcasim.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:26pm.

How about reading my whole post before you chime in. I'll let everyone else chew you out. I hope you are not from the San Fernando Valley.
-------------------------------------------
Conservatism – apply it directly to the forehead.


Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 10:15pm.

OK LIKE OH MY GOD LIKE whatever. You are so stupid. Grow Up. It's just you that think that way. Am I the only person that believes that most Blacks and Mexicans need to move? Do Blacks and Mexicans cause most Rapes, Break Ins. robberies, etc? It those that cause most of our problems. Are they LEGAL? Which most are NOT. They cause most crimes etc. If they were to leave we would be so much beter.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 10:38pm.

That was good. I've never been to California. I'll have to learn to speak Valley before I tour there in two years.

I am however, very fluent in Redneck, Ebonics, English, and Trailer Speak. Hopefully I can find the time to learn a new language. Perhaps Valley or Mexican next. Smiling

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 6:18pm.

Don't worry about learning Spanish. In LA they speak "Spanglish" that is, every other word is English.

-------------------------------------------
Conservatism – apply it directly to the forehead.


ILuvFayette's picture
Submitted by ILuvFayette on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:19pm.

Where is the rudeness??? How I read it is that he couldn't stop laughing every time he saw the avatar.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:19pm.

He was kidding, can you be more dense.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 7:50pm.

I would love to but I am Burnette and an Attorney. I can only fake so much.

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 10:21am.

As Jeff C. says...fer sure, fer sure. Smiling


Submitted by susieq on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 9:50am.

I'm sure you meant brunette. Now tell us about the attorney.

Submitted by loveptc on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:27pm.

I think you should tell the dude on the bike your sorry.

Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:44pm.

I think it's a cute Avatar. You should see mine on MSN. It's almost as cute as I am.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:47pm.

and it's darn funny too!

-------------------------------------------
Conservatism – apply it directly to the forehead.


nuk's picture
Submitted by nuk on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 9:25am.

Due to bottom-feeders like John Edwards and his ilk and the extreme dumbing down of the USA to where the lowest common denominator is the standard, society and business are too paralyzed with the real threat of monetary losses to use common sense. Common sense gets you broke or thrown in jail. The easily-offended can and will sue everyone.

The same 70 year old white lady getting searched by some $6.00/hr. clown who lets a loaded M16 go through screening(but can maintain mucho 'tude while ignoring it)is also being asked for ID at Kroger because she wants to buy a bottle of wine. Instead of using anything resembling common sense, it's "we can't get sued! ID everyone!"

I USED to think a lot of this BS was due to political correctness, but I've come to realize it has more to do with the power of ambulance chasers and that the rest of the legal system from the top all the way down to individual jurors is seriously broken and in need of a fix.


sam0917's picture
Submitted by sam0917 on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 8:24am.

I just want to say thanks to all of you that are sincere in your support of law enforcement. My husband works for Fayetteville PD and he's seen how the crime and the criminals have changed drastically in this city and county, all color issues aside. With the building of the Pavilion we essentially invited every criminal from every county around us to come in and start shoplifting, assaulting people, taking their cars at gunpoint in the daytime, etc. He has pretty much banned me from going to the Pavilion without his presence and you know what, I don't mind that at all. I think another thing that shows how the crime and the criminals are changing in Fayetteville is that this guy didn't even try to cover his face. Oh yeah, he had on a hat and some glasses but he wasn't the least bit concerned about the cameras or anyone else being able to see his face because he didn't have on a mask and that tells me that the criminal mindset about Fayetteville has changed tremendously. I worry everyday for my husband and his co-workers because I know the things they deal with on a daily basis. I know our law enforcement isn't perfect most of the time and they might not solve your crimes in a timely enough manner that is to your liking but please remember what they do for you everyday. And, please remember that everyday things like this are going to be increasing and they still leave their families at home to come out and try their best to serve and protect.

They're not all bad and lazy, some of them have worked at this so long and hard that they get burned out but they don't know how to try and do anything else because this is what they know and this is what is in their blood. It's a difficult thing for them to live with everyday when they can't solve the crime becuase the evidence or leads they have just aren't enough. And when things like this happen and all they can think is that one day Fayette County will be really bad just like Atlanta and will they still be able to come home. I'm not saying anyone here isn't being supportive, I'm just asking to please continue your support and remember always that most of the time most of them are trying their best to keep these things from happening and when they do happen most of them are trying most of the time to keep it from happening again. Thanks for listening!


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 10:17am.

Give your husband and the rest of his compadres a big "Thank You" from most of us on the Citizen.

I understand his concerns regarding the Pavilion and surrounding areas. Our agreement is that my bride doesn't shop North of 54 in Fayetteville without me tagging along. She really doesn't mind because it's the same drive to either Fayetteville or PTC. If it continues getting any worse then we have plans to move to a rural area many miles from this problem. Will there be crime there? Yes... but nothing like what is encroaching on us here.

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:22pm.

Same here a Great Big Thanks. We need Fayetteville City Police and we need Fayette County Police so much. The thugs are now coming here. Let's take them out. If I had a gun I would shoot anyone trying to rob a Bank, rob a House, kidnap a child etc.

One more thing, thanks for all the support from the Police Dept's at the Elementary, Middle and High Schools. I really APPRECIATE what you do.

eodnnaenaj1's picture
Submitted by eodnnaenaj1 on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 10:34am.

How far away and how rural would one have to move? Shoot I thought I lived in rural area, sometimes mail still says "rural". Woods all about and behind house, no one could come in and build there. Was I surprised and very saddened to see the makings of a new subdivision right at the top of the street. Not to mention the survey flags for the ???? bypass road.

On drives through AL, GA, SC, TN I often look and think, this might be a nice area, then go around the next curve and there is a WalMart/Home Depot center in the middle of no where. Not to mention it would be hours away from a good paying job.

I often wonder where can we go to escape all this "progress".


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 11:17am.

Is city life compared to where I'm talking about. LOL! You're right about the "good paying job" part. I'm hopefully nearing an early retirement. Not that I'll retire but, that I could and that I can live however far out I choose.

Ok..I can feel the comments now.......

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by wheeljc on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 9:20am.

Think that you will find that the vast majority of the population is behind your husband, and all law enforcement in Fayette County. Things have changed in Fayetteville, and suppose that it is now incumbent upon all of us to be more aware of our surroundings, and not hesitate to take action when we see something out of the ordinary. Sad that the Pavillion has become a magnet, but unless the businesses take aggressive action, as has been taken by Arbor Place Mall, then they are inviting more of the same.

Tell your husband THANKS!

Submitted by Tyrone Aries on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 1:41pm.

Hello??? Editor - you recently edited a lot of comments on the Tyrone issues, which were no different than comments made about Pres. Bush on this same site!! How can you edit that and allow this? Have you read all the comments on this page.........where is the rationale? We are edited for voicing serious concerns about corruption in the Tyrone government, enough to warrant at least 2 civil lawsuits and you allow this kind of blatant racism on your site?

Submitted by 30YearResident on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 11:16am.

First of all, what specifically is racist about the comments above?
Also, you may want to review the true definition of that word before you loosly throw it around.

Fact: The robber was, uhhh Black!
Fact: As the population has increased in Fayette County, so has crime, the majority committed by, uhhh Blacks!
Fact: Crime has increased dramatically with the opening of The Pavilion.
Fact: A large percentage (if not the majority) of license tags at the Pavilion are "out of county" tags; Clayton, Dekalb, Fulton.

So it appears you are trying to surpress facts and truth by using the "racism" tag.
Don't you think your time and efforts would be better spent by directing it toward correcting the culture problems within the black community instead of name calling?

Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 7:48am.

Only one is even half way inflamatory. If inflamatory bothers you, maybe you shouldn't read. EXACTLY which comments bother you? The fact that we don't like bank robbers doesn't surprise me in the least.

There are many people in this area who lived in or near Clayton County when it was a very peaceful suburban County. They know what can happen, as they have seen it with their own eyes. I saw it with my own eyes, and I wouldn't have ever believed it when I graduated from Morrow High in the very early 80's.

I wasn't smart enough then to realize how the County Commissioners were selling the County down the river.

Again, what bothered you so much?

Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:00pm.

Sometimes it's good for others to see how comfortable racists feel in expressing their ignorance. Thanks heavens not everyone feels that we as citizens should be judge and jury and shoot/kill a criminal based on our judgment.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:27pm.

Wouldn't you think that if we had a bunch of White Trailer Trash Dwelling Pike Countians doing all these robberies we'd be commenting on them the same way we are commenting on all of these BLACK Clayton County Ghetto Thugs?

We should all be on the lookout for suspicious characters when we go to Fayetteville these days. I'm alert to my surroundings and profiling when I get out of my car or exit a business establishment. Call it racist if you chose (I really don't give a Real Rats Rump)but I give special notice to Black Males between the ages of 14 & 55 years old. It's no difference than when I profile and judge those that I think might have terrorist tendencies. I primarily keep my eyes on the Arab / Muslim types since that's where the majority of terrorists originate from.

What's funny is that when it's some White Trash that commits a crime you'll see the same people on here going after them with same intensity. But, since the majority of the robberies are from the minority community then guess where the problem is coming from.

You know what's disgusting? We get a new principal in the county and not much is said nor does somebody take notice until some Racist Nappy Haired Bigot like TheOnlyRealCatInTown makes it a point to make sure everyone knows that she is Black. Like anyone gave a rip until this White Hating Bigot made her hiring an issue of her being black. The White community didn't give a rip until she started in with her "We Got Clayton County and Fayette County Is Next" racist type statements. So tell you what Davids Mom and TyroneAriesIdiot... if you can't take it then don't dish it out.

Now...about those PTC White Trash Dope Dealers....

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by too bad on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 11:19am.

I clicked on the 'rest of the story', yeah that was pretty bad, is Scott Ballard still working for us? I also have to agree that this BS about saying a robber is black is not racist, it is a description. I also have to agree that the way people make their statements about more black teachers, you can't help but catch the underlying ,'up yours whitie' implication. I am disgusted.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 11:22am.

Yes he is still your District Attorney and there is much more to the story than that. But that's for another thread.

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:09pm.

WHAT? Please point out to me my 'race baiting' statements. I need to correct them.

I do not mean to make people feel uncomfortable about the racism that exists in this country. Nor do I feel that I am free from this disease. But it is a dibilitating disease - if you look at the word - dis-ease- racism is exactly what makes one uncomfortable.

Submitted by 30YearResident on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 3:47pm.

Just look in a mirror if you want to stare it in the face.... or at a photo of Sharpton or Jackson...
I dare to say that there is much less bigotry and racism within the white community than exists in the black community.
Clean up your side before throwing rocks at ours.

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 3:51pm.

Thank you for your input.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 11:01am.

I shouldn't have lumped you in with those other two knuckleheads I mentioned. I'm sorry. Smiling

I'd just ask that you would get onto the racists on your side. I may be mistaken but it appears you only see the ones on my side.

Anyways... Have a great day!

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 8:10pm.

We know you are Black. Nothing to be ashamed of. I am Cherokee Indian. But it is certianed that it is a young BLACK man that robbed the bank. Do you know him? Is that why you are so protective?

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 8:58pm.

Cyclist - did she say she was from the San Fernando valley? This is a 'valley girl' statement. My dear - please show me the statement from any of my posts that makes you think I am protecting a robber. Thank you.

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 2:48pm.

Racism, unfortunately, is imbedded in all who feel superior or inferior to someone because of 'race'. I started reading this blog when a person writing in 'so-called' black dialect began berating others in the discussion with anti white statements. I think the discussion has improved since then. Some of the responses revealed a deep-seated distrust and hate from both 'sides'. I don't think that most people in this discussion - whatever the issue - are racist. But 'race' does creep into discussions regarding crime, employment, housing, property values, etc. (Not only in this discussion in Fayette County, but throughout our nation.) It's tempting to post about 'white' criminals just to show the diversity in the lower element in our society who want something for nothing. If any of you get the newspaper 'The Fayette Neighbor', you might want to read the opinion of Bill Shipp in his article 'Aces Are Green'. We know from history that power is difficult to share or give up. The reality, as ugly as it seems, is that in America having a 'white' appearance is an asset. ( I know - some of you have suffered from 'reverse racism') To combat that reality - my father, God rest his soul, raised me to feel superior to all 'white' people. It wasn't until I entered Kindergarten and that I was told by a sweet looking blonde that she couldn't play with n . . . s, that I experienced racism face to face. I responded I couldn't play with n. . . s either, - and we were fast friends through high school. When I went home that evening of my kindergarten day - and asked what n. . .s were and why someone shouldn't play with them, my father had tears in his eyes and began my education about the proud history of blacks, the injustices which were still openly practiced in the 40's and 50's, etc., etc. It wasn't until I was in middle school that I realized that my loving father was a 'racist'. . .but one who also loved his daughter very much and wanted to protect her from the ignorance of the philosophy of white supremacy. I never felt that I was a victim! My Daddy told me I was the greatest!! I spent a good deal of my years in middle and high school, which were both integrated, dealing with the issue of racism and seeking ways to change hearts.. . my own included. I attended camps where diversity was honored; programs that preached integration not segregation, and soon I will attend the 50-year reunion of one of the most integrated schools in California. In the 50's and 60's people on both 'sides' ranted that one could not change hearts. I've seen hearts change. What concerns me now is that the hateful words of the 60's and 70's are returning ..and being spoken by both 'sides'. I had the opportunity to meet one of the Arkansas 9 when he entered college in California. I was impressed with his lack of 'hate' towards those who yelled and screamed at him and the other 8 who entered that high school. He has achieved - and relates to all humans with kindness and respect. This is the lesson to be learned. Treat all with respect and kindness. I don't see as many racists on 'my side' in these discussions - but I know that there are racists on 'my side'. It was interesting that I was 'attacked' for my position on guns and civilians (this was not a racist attack . .not even an attack) - when in my first post I stated that I felt training was important. I was 'heard' as a liberal against the NRA and guns. It wasn't until I emphasized that I have nothing against 'guns' that I was heard. We are all guilty of only hearing what we assume. The assumptions only are cleared up by clarification - listening and discussing. This does not mean that opinions will change - but at least understanding the position of others is made clear. I'm sorry - I've rambled. I hope that another 'side' can be emphasized one day - the side of those who will judge all by their actions and not the color of their skin. I think there are many on that ‘side’ in The Citizen Blog.

Submitted by Eliza on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 3:52pm.

I enjoyed reading your post very much - thanks for your insight and comments - the post was most definitely NOT "too long".

eodnnaenaj1's picture
Submitted by eodnnaenaj1 on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 2:58pm.

To the last line, AMEN.


Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 2:54pm.

Your comments too long. Racism is simple: when you generalize all blacks or all whites as superior or inferior, that is racism.

It is that simple.

I believe you indicated that "all" should be treated with respect, etc. NO, some don't deserve it, some do.

Submitted by tonto707 on Sat, 08/18/2007 - 2:17pm.

you're close but not quite there. Racism is simply the preference of one race over another. Common usage of the term is intended to mean discrimination in favor of or against a person or persons of a particular race.

Having cleared that definition up for you dollar, did you notice that the surveillance camera picture at the top of the page suggests the person might be black?

Of course you did. So it's not racist to state that the bank was robbed by a black male, it's simply stating the fact. Now, it's also
not racist to make any statement about an individual or race of people, even a general statement, if it's in fact a true statement.

Someone earlier posted that something like 86% of crimes against blacks are committed by blacks, according I believe, to FBI statistics. Pointing that fact out is not a racist comment, again, simply a fact.

I recall several years back an interview between Barbara Walters and Evander Holyfield in which Evander was asked about his several children born out of wedlock and he responded with the defense "in our culture that's accepted"(paraphrased). I cite this example only to illustrate that cultural differences in values exist among virtually all races and having or repeating that knowledge is neither racist nor an exercise in racism.

Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:32pm.

I agree some deserve it-some don't. If I take my childern to Tinsletown Movies or the Dollar Movies, I always have my eyes open. I don't trust Black, White, Red or Gray. (and I am Cherokee Indian). I do seem to trust Blacks less. I know that sounds bad. I hate to admint it. But you guys had it coming. Am I the only person that looks twice to see if the black kid in the do-rag is gonna rob the gas station or the grocery store that I am in (with my family)?

Come on admit it. Blacks and Mexicans (illegally - both black and mexican) are what most Americans watch out for. It's not the Muslims. We seem to trust all those guys. But you most likely to be robbed, sexually assulted, killed by a Black person or a Mexican person.

Am I the only person to stand up?

nuk's picture
Submitted by nuk on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 3:59pm.

MVP(Most Vocal Poster) dollar says:

:your comments too long. Racism is simple:
:when you generalize all blacks or all whites
:as superior or inferior, that is racism.

That's actually the definition of bigotry, not racism.

It's very diffcult in America to have a meaningful
discussion on race when the vast majority can't even
understand the subject.

NUK


Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 4:45pm.

Racism is a belief or concept that inherent differences between people (such as those upon which the concept of race is based) determine cultural or individual achievement, and may involve the idea that one's own 'race' is superior.[1]

The origin of the word bigot in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of "religious hypocrite", especially a woman. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 3:24pm.

I take the time to read your posts. At least read mine before you respond. Thanks.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:14pm.

As they said on the old commercials, "Where's the beef?!?!?" so I'm asking you "Where's the racism?!?!?" Huh? Speak up! I can't hear you! Smiling

Other than thebeaver's comment I don't see anybody else saying anything racist. I don't care where the bank robber is from or what his skin color is -- all I know is that he's a criminal and needs to be locked up for life for bank robbery, attempted murder, and possession of a firearm in a crime.

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Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:29pm.

. . .seen the racism of SOME comments and addressed them. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW???

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:39pm.

We can all agree thebeaver makes bigoted comments...but where are the others in this news story? If I overlooked one please tell me. Smiling

As I've said before, a thug is a thug whether he's white, brown, red, black, or green.

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Save yourself and maybe others too. Concealed Carry Permit How-To


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 5:07pm.

As I've said before, a thug is a thug whether he's white, brown, red, black, or green.

No disagreement here! As people have read racist intent into what I may have written - I too have made the same judgment at times. By discussing and clarifying - we learn.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:23pm.

Did anyone mention that they didn't like the suspect because of his color??? No they didn't. We don't like his crime and it has nothing to do with color. So stop racebaiting or trying to cause trouble where there is none.

This is what I was talking about earlier. Keep crying wolf and no one will pay attention when the legit cases of racism occur. You are diminishing the value of people with real cases.

Submitted by JoAnn on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 7:48pm.

I agree it is certain that he is Black. But does that metter. Look at him - do you know him? If so, turn him in. Make safe for all of us.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:22pm.

Thanks heavens not everyone feels that we as citizens should be judge and jury and shoot/kill a criminal based on our judgment.

You are grossly confusing (I assume accidentally) the issue. There is a BIG difference between walking up to someone and shooting him or her simply because you "feel" that he or she is a criminal and defending yourself.

Most of these low-life scum have no respect for human life and have no moral qualms about killing you for $20. By using a firearm in a crime, you signify you are willing to kill someone to get what you want. It doesn't matter whether or not it's even loaded -- you are threatening others' lives. Your right to life ends when you threaten someone else's. Therefore, it's perfectly acceptable both legally and morally to kill in self defense or to protect other people. You have NO WAY of knowing how violent the criminal is -- you have to assume that he is capable and willing to kill and you must respond accordingly. Sorry to sound trite, but it really is many times a "kill or be killed" situation.

I hope I'm never forced to use a weapon in self-defense or to protect others, but if I do, there will be one more low life taking the eternal dust nap. Eye-wink


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:03pm.

I hope that anyone carrying a weapon is well trained - as law enforcement officers are - in using that weapon. I have been exposed to a well meaning citizen who had a permit to carry an unconcealed weapon in their automobile - and killed a person who they perceived as a criminal - and pleaded 'self defense' and was found guilty of murder.

I don't mean to confuse. A gun dealer here in Fayetteville sold a rapid-fire gun to a woman in her 70's. (It cost around $500) She doesn't even know how to remove the safety. Getting the permit is relatively easy. There should be a license/permit issued AFTER one is trained to use the weapon. There is a psychological aspect that is important in drawing a gun. If you draw down on someone - you must not hesitate to shoot. Most civilians will hesitate - and the criminal will not. One needs training to do this. Law enforcement officers are trained to make those life saving judgments when using deadly response to a situation. Civilians carrying a weapon with a permit and no training are just as dangerous as the thugs, in my opinion.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:10pm.

Civilians carrying a weapon with a permit and no training are just as dangerous as the thugs, in my opinion.

Tsk, tsk, I just hope and pray you are never mugged or worse! You might reconsider your feelings if you have had family members like I have who have been accosted by thugs. As I said in a different post, they didn't need to fire or point their guns. Simply having them was enough to scare them off. Both times not only were their lives saved, their families were saved as well.

Frankly, I think that's a very ignorant comment. The police aren't always available to protect you 24/7 -- you need to take personal responsibility (I know, I know, an anathema to liberals like you) for your own and your family's protection.

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Save yourself and maybe others too. Concealed Carry Permit How-To


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:24pm.

I've lost family members to gun carrying thugs. Most civilians - as you have stated - do not have the thug mentality. TRAINING before CARRYING is what I'm professing. I'm trained - and will not hesitate. . .and I'm an 'expert' shot. I've seen the damage that an untrained civilian can do at a shooting range before they have been taught how to handle their weapon. Their first shots come nowhere near the target. This kind of 'shooting' can kill innocents - and miss the targeted suspect. Right? If you still see me as an ignorant liberal - so be it. Have a nice day.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:34pm.

I'm an 'expert' shot. I've seen the damage that an untrained civilian can do at a shooting range before they have been taught how to handle their weapon. Their first shots come nowhere near the target. This kind of 'shooting' can kill innocents - and miss the targeted suspect. Right?

Now that you've explained better what you meant I would tend to agree with you. Smiling Shooting the first time is a nerve-racking experience -- it's not at all like it looks on TV is it? Eye-wink

I guess since I'm so used to people having a gagging reflex to guns I misunderstood your remark.

I fully support optional training classes -- I just don't know if it's Constitutional to require them. But that is a fair debate. I would tend to think though the majority of people who have permits have some experience or training.

If you still see me as an ignorant liberal - so be it.

I don't think I've ever criticized your intelligence. I think you are a liberal based on some of your comments but I don't think you are dumb. Smiling

Have a nice day.

And same to you! Smiling

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Save your life and maybe others too. Concealed Carry Permit How-To


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:47pm.

Smiling I'm a proud liberal. (Fiscal conservative)

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:29pm.

Autrey's has NRA safety classes every week. Gun safety is very important, and you are right the criminal will never hesitate. Always practice safety and safely. Practice, and no matter how good you think you are it doesn't hurt to take lessons. We are never too good or too old to learn.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:27pm.

I thought I had made it very clear the only reason for a carry permit is to defend your life! There is no other reason.

I think this person is trying to stir up trouble where there is none. She is putting words in other people's mouths. Nice try.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:37pm.

I thought I had made it very clear the only reason for a carry permit is to defend your life! There is no other reason.

Very true. That's the whole point of a concealed carry permit -- so you can discreetly protect yourself. Criminals like being flashy and showing off their weapons, and they are the ones you should worry about -- not law abiding citizens that quietly and legally arm themselves.


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 3:39pm.

Personally I think guns are ugly. Sadly in todays world they are a necessity.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:02pm.

Personally I think guns are ugly.

skyspy my friend, I hear what you are saying but I respectfully disagree. Smiling Guns are simply tools, and they demand respect and responsibility. Same as power tools or even a car -- both can maim or kill as well!

And guns, just like any other tool, can be used for good or evil. Sadly in today's media, they are portrayed as evil even though they are used in self-defense more often than crimes. For example, I know of two separate times with two different family members where simply having a firearm probably saved their lives. They didn't need to fire it or even point it! Simply having it was enough to scare away the thugs that very likely would have harmed or killed two families. And these aren't isolated incidences. It's no wonder criminals hate armed citizens.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 5:13pm.

Isn't it illegal to carry a gun into a church now, as well as a school (gun-free zones -- except for criminals, of course)? Where else can you not protect yourself?

"The notion that declaring an area to be gun-free, will keep criminals from maliciously using guns is ludicrous. Any law that makes self-defense illegal or impractical is an illegitimate law, because such a law ultimately subjects people to the criminal element," observes Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, who wrote the foreword to the following book.

___________________________

Shooting Back: The Right and Duty of Self Defense

What would you do if armed terrorists broke into your church and starting attacking your friends with automatic weapons in the middle of a worship service?

Would you be prepared to defend yourself and other innocents?

Would you be justified in doing so?

See also Politically Correct Guns by Alan M. Gottlieb (a take-no-prisoners invasion of the gun control crowd's territory, lobbing humor grenades at their hypocrisy, bombing their misplaced zeal with clever vignettes, and surrounding their anti-gun rhetoric with pointed parody), Stayin' Alive: Armed and Female in an Unsafe World by Paxton Quigley, and On the Firing Line: Essays in the Defense of Liberty by Larry Pratt for more summer reading pleasure.

Denise, get your guns!!!


Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 08/16/2007 - 5:24pm.

I am in the process of getting a carry permit. I bet that the average citizen cannot carry into a school. (?)

Even at Autreys only cops in uniform can carry a loaded gun inside. The rest of us carry in an empty gun show it to whoever is in charge then go back to the range and load. This is a good safety practice. Git Real or one of our cops will have to answer the church question. I think it was just last week that 3 people were killed in a church. Unbelievable.

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 5:18am.

I went to the NRA site & read a PDF synopsis.

"Firearms may not be carried to any 'public gathering,' even by an individual licensed to carry a firearm. Public gatherings include, but are not limited to, athletic events, church functions, political rallies, all publicly owned or operated buildings and all places where alcoholic beverages are sold for consumption on the premises."

Also within 1000 feet of any school property (unless carrying or picking up a student).

This doesn't seem to leave many places that you can legally carry a gun. Puzzled

So, I guess my carrying one with me into a restaurant or the Cinemark Theater (the inexpensive one where thugs often hang out in the parking lot) would get me time in jail. What about going to and from your car when the gun might be needed -- what do you do with the gun while you're in a prohibited place? What good is having a gun if it's in your car? What happens if you forget the gun's in your purse? I suppose that you'd be treated like more of a criminal than a real criminal.

Does "public gathering" apply to stores and places like McDonald's?

_____________________________

"Victim of Sexual Assault in McDonald's Strip Search Hoax Says She Was Too Scared to Leave"

"Authorities have said that the search follows a pattern of roughly 70 other such incidents reported at fast-food restaurants in several states."

[The man who posed as a police officer during the four-hour ordeal] "admitted to spanking, sodomizing and forcing the woman to masturbate, received five years in prison."

_____________________________

"Two Dead in Restaurant Shooting"

VANCOUVER, B.C. – Two masked gunmen burst into a Chinese restaurant [in a neighborhood frequented by drug dealers and prostitutes] early Thursday and sprayed it with bullets, killing two people and injuring six, police said. . . . By the time officers got there about 4:30 a.m., the gunmen had fled. . . . Such shootings are rare in Canada, which prides itself on being safer than the United States. [Maybe they'd like a few of our criminals to rehabilitate?]

_____________________________

"Restaurant Shootings"

Australia -- 35 people were dead and 18 others were wounded in a restaurant. The rampage included shooting at little children at point-blank range.

McDonald's, Cal. -- 22 people [including children] (including the attacker) died and 19 others were injured.

Luby's Restaurant, TX -- 24 people (including the attacker) died and 20 others were injured.

_____________________________

** "A Daughter's Regret" **

"Suzanna Gratia Hupp will live the rest of her life with regret. Had she been carrying her gun the day a madman executed her parents while she cowered helplessly and then fled, she is convinced she could have stopped one of the worst massacres in U.S. history."

"If guns are the problem, why don't we see things occurring at skeet and trap shoots, at gun shows, at NRA conventions? We only see it where guns aren't allowed i.e., churches, sports arenas, government offices, courts, airports and restaurants serving alcohol]. The sign of a gun with a slash through it is like a neon sign for gunmen, 'We're unarmed. Come kill us.'"

_____________________________

"Man Yelled 'Liars' Before Killing 3 in Church"

_____________________________

"Terror In The Sanctuary"

Three teenagers and three adults were killed at the church [in a Texas middle-class neighborhood] and a fourth teenager died later at the hospital. Seven others were being treated at area hospitals.

A former high school classmate referred to [the killer] as a harmless eccentric. But no one thought him capable of the kind of violence he unleashed on Wednesday night.

_____________________________

"Woman Killed in Detroit Church Shooting"

The shooting at Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church killed a 38-year-old woman and wounded a girl sitting next to her. The violence grew out of a domestic dispute. The [second] victim who died Monday, identified only as a man in his 50s, was shot while trying to protect his wife from a carjacking attempt outside the church.

_____________________________

** Better to be tried by 12 than carried by six. **


Submitted by 30YearResident on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 8:40am.

Remember, only law abiding citizens pay attention and adhere to "Gun Free Zone" restrictions

The bad guys love 'um !!! Makes their job easier.

You let a bad guy come into a "Gun Free Zone" and start shooting, then some law abiding citizen happens to pull out his legally carried .380 and blow the piece of crap away in order to save lives ... guess who'd probably get arrested ?

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 7:42am.

Bringing a gun into the movie theater is OK as it is not a publicly owned building. Now the Fayette County court house is a different story.

Having it with you in a restaurant "could" cause a problem only if you showed it to someone. DON’T!

The moral of the story is, don't buy a cannon just because it's a cannon. Buy something of adequate caliber that is comfortable for you to handle. Rarely does one need to shoot an SUV. People tend to go down with less than .50 cal's.

One handgun that a lady I know uses is a dbl. barrel .40 cal. derringer, black with gold inlay. She has two .410 high brass shotgun rounds in it. Very small, you could cover it with your hand, light weight and accurate aiming isn't a requirement. At 10 to 20 feet the spread pattern will be within 12” to 18”.

Bubba and/or thug will go down if she uses it on them.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 8:12am.

Glad to know all of this, but one question -- don't you have to have a permit just to carry a gun in a holster? I thought that one was needed only if you concealed it, but I guess that I haven't kept up with the law changes. When did this change?

"accurate aiming isn't a requirement" -- That's good to know because I don't know if I'd be able to hold a gun steady when really scared. But maybe self-survival instincts take over.

I read recently that a 0.38 is the minimum for protection. Do you agree? I've practiced with a 0.22 or .025? (revolver, I think -- holds 9? bullets & definitely can't be concealed by your hand), but I need more practice to increase accuracy. Wouldn't you want a gun that holds more bullets?

I could tell the smaller 0.22 holes in the target from the 0.38. The 0.22 didn't have much "kick," and I could empty it into the paper thug quite quickly.

Thanks!


bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 6:10pm.

”don't you have to have a permit just to carry a gun in a holster?”

It is my understanding, please check, that as long as the weapon is NOT concealed, you can “transport” a cannon.

I prefer a .45 AS+P, SUV stopping power round. I’m also 6’-2”, 230 lbs. and have been shooting since I was about 7 years old. I’m almost 50 now.

Between military service, I was never actually in the military but got lent out to various service branches on an as needed basis; guess who I worked for. In civilian practice I’ve probably fired over 100,000 rounds just to keep my job.

My lady friend that carries the .410 derringer is a lawyer and works in D.C. representing some rather nefarious characters, go figure. She’s 5’-2” and must weigh all of 100 lbs. wet, but can handle that thing like a pro. It’s all personal preference, training and practice.

I would highly recommend that you try several calibers of hand gun as well as several types of loads for each.

Get prefers a .40 while I prefer a .45 cal. +P. It’s very much a personal preference. A .45 can kick like a mule compared to a .40, depending on the actual gun it’s fired from.

My lady friends .40 cal. derringer actually kick’s like a mule, I don’t care who fires it.

Several things must be considered when purchasing a weapon. Who is going to use it, what training do they have, what are they planning on stopping, do they need 2 or 8 rounds to accomplish the task, yada, yada, yada.

My main carry weapon is a Rossi/Interarms .45 cal. AC+P frame heavy. That means it can chamber and shoot heavy, 200 grain+, military ammo. F250+ stopping kind of stuff.

However, the gun I like the most is my SIG .45. It just feels good in my hands.

Try several. It’s your money and your comfort level. I personally don’t care for the Glock’s but that’s just me. Glock makes a fine weapon that several 100’s of thousands of people like.

From what I’ve read Mossberg's "410 home defender” is a good all around weapon for the home for many of the same reasons that my lady friend carries her derringer.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Sat, 08/18/2007 - 1:05am.

Thanks for the info.

Guess I'll try different ones at Autry's. I don't like the "kick" but I don't want to be killed either. Sounds like I just need to practice a lot more.

My dad and brother bow hunt and enjoy it. They have several different kinds. My dad knows a lot about guns; so he could help me decipher ammo [bigger caliber = bigger hole?] and other terminology. I remember his hunting and gun magazines that seemed so boring. Laughing out loud I know that he has a reloader (if that's what it's called) and hunting guns. He was in the military, too. Thanks!


Submitted by skyspy on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 6:51am.

I hope public gathering means concerts and sporting events only. My intent was to carry it with me almost all of the time. Except into banks.

One of our legal people need to explain what the law means by public gathering. The whole point of getting a permit is for self-defense.

I love the saying : "Better to be tried by 12 than carried out by 6" That is my gun instructors favorite saying.

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 08/17/2007 - 7:13am.

Can you imagine how helpless Suzanna Hupp felt when she saw her parents gunned down at Luby's Restaurant? She has worked to get restrictions (such as restaurants and churches) removed, reminding people to think how they'd feel if they couldn't protect their children. Sadly we're losing our freedoms more and more.

She's right; gun-free zones are like a neon sign for gunmen, "We're unarmed. Come kill us."


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:10pm.

I know they are tools, and I know they can be good or bad. I meant ugly as in looks or appearance. There is no way to dress it up. I got used to carrying a police flashlight and pepperspray I'll get used to this too.

Did you watch the youtube video of the robbery. That criminal was waving the gun around swinging wildly. I hope they catch him before he kills someone.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 4:51pm.

I meant ugly as in looks or appearance.

Well, I'm afraid you're wrong again buddy. Nothing a little bling can't fix! Laughing out loud

Did you watch the youtube video of the robbery. That criminal was waving the gun around swinging wildly.

I sure did. Seriously that's scary because it could go off accidentally and kill someone. Thank God nobody was injured!

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Save yourself and maybe others too. Concealed Carry Permit How-To


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 1:09pm.

Hello, do you really think MLK or Bill Cosby would approve of this???

We all need to get a permit to carry, one of us could have taken this joker out.

Let's go through this again, how to get a permit to carry? Do I go to the courthouse first or the sheriff's office to get finger printed? Folks we need to get serious and get involved if we are going to save this county from crime. We have to be ready to defend our lives.

pentapenguin's picture
Submitted by pentapenguin on Wed, 08/15/2007 - 2:48pm.

Hello skyspy. Smiling

It's pretty easy to do.

1) Go to the Justice Center and go to the Probate Court. It's on your left right after you go through security. Grab a form from the desk (or ask if for help if they have moved them) and fill it out. Pay $15 and get fingerprinted (old way with black ink).

2) Take the 2 fingerprint cards they give you to the Sheriff's office (the older courthouse) and pay $30 to get fingerprinted again (new way on the computer).

(Do note that both the Probate Court and the Sheriff's office only take cash and do not give change so make sure you have the right amounts in cash. For those of you that work at Burger King, that's a $10 and a $5 for the Probate Court and a $20 and a $10 for the Sheriff's office. Eye-wink )

(Also note that you should get there in the morning or early afternoon -- the Probate Court closes at 3:30pm and the Sheriff's office does fingerprinting till 4pm.)

3) Wait 2 months or so while they do a background check. (Unless you are an "Undocumented American," then President Bush promises he will personally do the background check for you in 24 hours or less or your money will be cheerfully refunded! Smiling )

4) Go to Autrey's Armory and get a nice handgun if you don't already own one.

I recommend everybody get a permit -- you never know when you may need it especially when in Fayerdale. (Sorry, it's not that I dislike Fayetteville at all, it's just that there's a lot of crime there around The Pavilion.)


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