British captives shame the West

Tue, 04/17/2007 - 4:07pm
By: The Citizen


Our British friends and allies enjoy a long and distinguished history of military accomplishments. The British navy once ruled the world’s seas, Admiral Nelson’s victory at Trafalgar will be remembered forever, the rescue at Dunkirk may never be equaled, and countless other British military accomplishments require the words valor and honor.

And so it was particularly galling to watch the 15 captured British sailors and marines fairly kissing the ring of Iranian madman Ahmadinejad on TV news as they publicly apologized for intruding into Iranian waters, which they did not, and thanked him for his charitable decision to release them.

Some of my friends who never served in the military don’t see the problem. After all, the captured troops look so young and surely they feared for their lives. Isn’t the main point to win their release, to preserve their safety and their lives while in captivity, and didn’t their compliant behavior help accomplish all those things?

Well, no. The main point is the face-off between nations, and how the behavior of POWs under difficult conditions can compromise a nation’s position. Islamic nut-jobs tested Western reaction to a provocation again, and the West failed the test, again.

If the British had done more than threaten a UN resolution, or if the EU had not been so reluctant to impose sanctions, the shameful behavior of the captured troops might have mattered even more. Altogether, it was a sorry mess shining a spotlight on Western weakness disguised as sensitivity, restraint and capitulation, a recipe to encourage future provocations.

A discussion of what we expect of our own troops, defined by the U.S. Military Code of Conduct (included nearby), is worthwhile.

The code has many purposes, among them cohesion and resistance among the POWs, not letting captors divide POWs with special gifts or favors, and resisting all attempts to extract information from POWs with a strict limit to name, rank, serial number and date of birth.

Here are a few examples of how young men applied this code of conduct as POWs in the Vietnam War.

I am proud to say Jim Warner is a friend of mine, a retired attorney now living in Maryland. While in his mid-20s Jim was a Marine pilot of F-4 Phantom bomber jets and was shot down just north of the DMZ in Vietnam. While in captivity for five years, Jim was tortured many times.

The worst, he says, was when they kept him over two months in a cement box in the sun, so small it required him to crouch on the balls of his feet, with his feet in irons screwed on so tight his flesh swelled up to football size and the irons disappeared under the infected mess. He still limps from the effect of those irons. In between torture sessions Jim was interrogated and promised he could go home if only he would apologize for his war crimes. He did not.

Jim says for some reason he was never given the “ropes” treatment other POWs remember as the most painful. The North Vietnamese would tie the POWs’ arms tightly behind their back at the elbows, force their arms up so far their shoulder would be dislocated, then throw the end of the rope over a hook on the ceiling and hoist them up by the arms behind their back until they passed out.

Jim says, “Our food was consistently bad and meager. We were ever so slowly starving, susceptible to poor health conditions that accompany malnutrition.”

“We received a bowl of soup twice a day, foul-smelling liquid turned black by what we called sewer greens, an unrecognized plant that was apparently aquatic because it was hollow, with a smell as if grown in sewage. It was terribly bitter.“

“Sometimes we got a small bowl of rice with sand and tiny bits of rock mixed in, making it hard to eat. Sometimes there was bread, old and moldy bread with rat droppings in it. We often found bugs of various types in our food, and we ate them, too, because we were hungry and we knew we needed the protein.”

“However terrible the food was, there was never enough, especially in the winter when our bodies were trying to get warm.”

Jim Warner shared a cell for a while with John McCain, after years in solitary.

The North Vietnamese continually offered McCain special treatment and early release, because they knew his father was a well-known U.S. Navy admiral, and McCain’s release might have propaganda value. McCain was in need of special medical care because his arm and other bones were broken when he was shot down, and his captors twisted and beat his injuries instead of treating them. McCain steadfastly refused special treatment or release because it was prohibited by the Code, and because the POW commanding officer, U.S. Navy Cmdr. Jim Stockdale, spread the word that nobody would go home before the first man captured, or all together.

Stockdale also passed the word that every man has his breaking point, that every man would break at some point under torture, but that it was his duty to hold out in every torture session as long as possible.

When the North Vietnamese indicated they planned to take Stockdale himself to a different location one day hence and gave him fresh clothes, he suspected they wanted to film him for propaganda. That night he beat his own face and head against the cement wall of his cell, and he was a bloody and bruised mess when his captors came for him the next morning. He was completely ruined for a propaganda session.

Jeremiah Denton, who became a U.S. Senator many years after he was a POW in Hanoi, was paraded before TV cameras, with a confession he had signed under torture on display. Denton robbed the North Vietnamese of their propaganda victory by blinking into the camera the Morse Code for “torture.”

Many of our men died from the brutal treatment of the North Vietnamese. Those who made it to the end came home with honor. A few others, who cooperated with the North Vietnamese to gain their early release, narrowly escaped the prosecution sought by Cmdr. Stockdale back in the U.S., and they have never been welcome at the POWs’ annual reunions.

How did the 15 captured Brits measure up? They did not resist capture. After a few days of isolation and head games by the Iranians they cavorted on TV with the Iranians and publicly stated their own country was in the wrong. They publicly thanked their captors. They were filmed by the Iranians playing ping-pong and enjoying hearty meals.

Female Seaman Faye Turney wrote three letters, publicized by the Iranians, confessing wrongdoing by her own country, praising the Iranians, petitioning the House of Commons to end British involvement in Iraq, and criticizing her own country and the U.S. for their role in the war. It didn’t help that she wore a Muslim headscarf instead of maintaining her own uniform.

All 15 accepted Iranian dress in lieu of their country’s uniform. They cheerfully accepted gift bags of sweets and little treasures to take home as mementos of their adventure.

Please pardon my nausea.

I almost expected the 15 released Brits to skip as they rushed off their plane to the waiting arms of their families, wearing their new Iranian suits and tightly clutching their gift bags, having delivered to the Iranians a propaganda gift bag of their own.

While British news reports indicated many citizens were disappointed in the behavior of their troops, the British Defense Ministry waived the rules to allow these soldiers to personally profit by selling to the media their story of 13 days in captivity. Under fire for the decision, the ministry is scrambling to reverse course.

In the words of my 10-year-old daughter Melanie, “Goodness grief!”

Of course the U.S. has had many “goodness grief” moments, too, in recent years. I would argue the West’s long-term survival depends on military strength, a demonstrated will to use that strength, and leadership with a strong mix of iron will, cojones and judgment. Margaret Thatcher and Golda Meir in their prime would be perfect.

[Terry L. Garlock of Peachtree City, Ga., is a certified financial planner. He was a helicopter gunship pilot in the Vietnam War, shot down in a firefight and seriously injured. His email is]

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AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 5:22pm.

Question the bravery of these seamen who went through an ordeal we did not. How dare you call their actions shameful when you do not know what their instructions were? This is no different from the oh so brave reporters who say they would have tackled the Virginia Tech shooter and counted his bullets to catch him reloading. I guess the world is not as brave as Terry Garlock, but I will never question the actions of those captured without absolutely knowing all of the facts. I don't attack my brave brothers and sisters in arms. They are part of the coalition. You may as well have attacked Jessica Lynch. Why did she not fight back? Next we will cross examine all purple hearts to see if they meet the Garlock standard. I imagine, Terry, that when you flip over your "support the Troops" magnet, it says "Attack the Hostages." This is a despicable letter, and in writing it you have removed any ounce of decency I mistakenly thought you had!

Kevin "Hack" King

Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 3:13pm.

Margaret Thatcher and Golda Meir didn't have conjones. They were women.

Vote Republican

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 5:14pm.

They might have been women but I would put their cojones up against any leader in the free world past or present. The fact you ask that question of a decorated war veteran makes me question your judgement. Tell me do you at least have a DD214 like our hero basmati, the so called patriot?

I yam what I yam...Popeye

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 5:14pm.


Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 9:24pm.

Thought him above the cheap shot
"so called patriot"
Why bother to BAN troublemakers if you're just going to let them RE-REGISTER?

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 9:51pm.

And your little haiku wasn't a cheap shot, it appears that you can dish it out but can't take it,so be it.To tell you the truth, it makes me a little nervous when men write me poems, so next time just rant and rave like normal please.

I yam what I yam...Popeye

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 5:11pm.


Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 2:46pm.

Brave Terry Garlock
"Prisoners should be manly"
Has he been there? No.

Why bother to BAN troublemakers if you're just going to let them RE-REGISTER?

Mixer's picture
Submitted by Mixer on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 4:58pm.

Terry Garlock also received the Purple Heart (for a broken back when his helecopter was shot down), a Bronze Star and the Distinguished Flying Cross.

On a lighter note: Garlock now has two adopted (Chinese) daughters and written a pair of books about the experience that have since received quite good reviews.

Agree or disagree, I would say that Mr. Garlock is certainly entitled to his opinion. I appreciate Mr. Garlock's service to his country and fatherhood to his daughters.

Garlock: Sisters Redeem Their Grumpy Dad


Please help stop the genocide in Darfur

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 6:41pm.

I think that this is the link you meant:

Sisters Redeem Their Grumpy Dad

Melanie and Me: A Chinese Daughter Transforms Her Adoptive Dad

Life was forever changed when Terry & Julie Garlock adopted their first daughter, Melanie, from China in 1998, then their second daughter, Kristen, from China in 2003. A new father at 50, he tells through stories of his daughters’ lives how he rediscovered what is important, like showing a child how to make alligator shadows against a sunlit wall.

A father tells his daughters the lessons of life he learned as a helicopter gunship pilot in the Vietnam war. He tells them about John Synowsky and Graham Stevens, the two men who risked their lives to rescue him when he was shot down, and who received the Soldier’s Medal for heroism that day.

"We learned that courage is not the absence of fear, courage is getting the job done while you’re so scared your hands shake."

"We learned that heroes are not larger-than-life and fearless, they are the ordinary people who do extraordinary things when their brothers are in danger."

Mixer's picture
Submitted by Mixer on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 8:07pm.

I am still new at this. Please forgive me for the improperly formatted link.

Let me begin with this: Francis Gary Powers

Regarding Terry Garlock's letter: I, like Kevin King, am very skeptical of Terry Garlock's criticism of our British allies; however, I very much value his opinion, even though it may differ from mine.

I also understand how he feels due to his real life experiences, he explained his view of heroism clearly. Further, I understand he sees this as an example of how NOT to act in, his perception of, the situation as he understands it.

I also understand that Hack feels he is wrong to criticize the British Soldiers. I understand and agree with him that we (I) do not know what their instructions were and because of this we (I) can not, in my opinion, fairly criticize them.

My only reference point is what my instructions were while I was in the Air Force, stationed in sensitive situations, working on highly sensitive cryptographic equipment. Those instructions did indeed differ from what I perceived the British soldiers did. Again, with the caveat that I do NOT know what, if any, compromises were made by the British.

Regardless, I have learned that we can fight, make our disagreements personnel, and alienate each other or we can be civil and learn from each other- we can't do both simultaneously.

I hope I will never attack a veteran whose opinion differs from mine. I will try to never belittle or personally assail any person whose opinion is different than mine. I simply do not have that right.

I am only entitled to my opinion but rest assured, I also believe that Terry Garlock and Kevin King are and equally so, entitled to theirs as well.

I am enjoying reading your blogs. I think that you and basmati will have to try very hard to find any common ground.

You are both obviously intelligent people and it is great fun to watch you both argue your diametrically opposed points of view.

What does it say to know that two obviously intelligent people like you and basmati have such a very different view of what’s what?

What does it say when Garlock and King have such different views while both are military veterans and adoptive fathers? Just think how much they have in common.

When I was in Korea, if it said "Georgia" on the back of the guy's hat - I had just found a new 'best friend'. I digress.

God bless America and God Bless all of you!


Please help stop the genocide in Darfur

AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Thu, 04/19/2007 - 10:53pm.

The four of you have done more to open my eyes to the human emotion behind the conservative/GOP viewpoint than any politician ever could. I was at my absolute worst when I hastily labeled Denise, but her forgiveness and good nature have kept the flow of honest and respectful communication going. I have made a very conserted effort not to personnaly attack fellow bloggers (that don't refer to me or mine as shovel noses). Unfortunately, I feel to my core that Mr. Garlock shed a necessary level of decency in calling these British troops' actions "galling" and "shameful" and even indicating that, after sharing his view of this incident with his daughter, she was equally disappointed in our less than brave allies.
Please realize that as military members that may be subjected to capture and confinement, most of us would never, ever in our wildest dreams expect to be dragged into the public square by a Vietnam War veteran and publicly tarred, feathered, and stoned. If all of Mr. Garlock's allegations were verified and found to be true, the discipline these troops received would be done privately. And after thorough debriefing, as their superior officer, I would lift them up, pat them on the back, tell them to keep their chins up and serve proudly having learned a valuable lesson. These are not public figures to be swift boated. These are British Nationals who risked their lives (and honor apparently) fighting in OUR war. If these troops were Vietnam War POWs, would Mr. Garlock's letter resemble something written by a fellow veteran or a Jane Fonda troop basher? I cannot imagine what he wished to accomplish. But I will defend these Brits' honor, our coalition brothers and sisters, to my last breath, and in my next Letter to the Editor.

Kevin "Hack" King

Submitted by MIKEK on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 9:59am.

I applaud your reasoning. Even as present or past military members we cannot rush to judge the actions of our brethren. None of us know the entire circumstances, nor are we proficient in the dictates of a foreign power regarding its military. These are but guides. All of us were taught to resist with all means possible, but when capture is inevitable who can foresee what pressures or threats will befall us? I do not make comparisons with captives from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, nor any recent conflict except that that can be used for educational purposes. Generations have come and gone and the values have changed based upon an ever changing society. For example, had Jane Fonda sat upon a Japanese anti-aircraft gun in 1942 instead of 1972, the American sentiment would have been quite different. Today we have national leaders making derogatory comments toward the nations war effort with little or no distain from the public and are not held accountable for their actions. Had a member of Congress done this in 1943, do we believe that they would remain in office?
Just a couple of thoughts.

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 9:38am.

Hack, I say this as someone who has never been to war, I was lucky and the only people we fought with was the officers and the odd group of seebees. But, when I was in boot camp they impressed upon me and the other guys with me a certain code of conduct to be adhered to if a prisoner of war, and if held to our standard, then these Brits failed.I know they aren't held to our standards but I feel in my heart they failed whatever England has as a standard. I can't say how I would measure up to their ordeal but I hope in my heart of hearts that I would measure up better then they. Now if I have shed a measure of decency fot these feelings then I am sorry but that's how I feel and I am not ashamed to say so. I hope you will take these words for what they're worth and that I have not offended you but as one vet to another thats my opinion. Good day to you Brother.

I yam what I yam...Popeye

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 7:02am.

Just a few thoughts on your comments from one who has never had to face military capture. My comments are in no way to minimize anyone's strongly held beliefs or the very real threat that soldiers face from the enemy and their dedicated service for their country.


"A catalogue of errors, from poor intelligence to inadequate training and lack of firepower, was blamed yesterday for the capture of the 15 British Marines and sailors by Iranian forces.

"The [Ministry of Defence] will also have to review its interrogation training for personnel on active service. At the moment, only forces on the front line are trained to cope with capture and interrogation."

It seems that the soldiers' training was lacking and the MoD needs to rethink a lot of areas. One should be women in vulnerable positions in the military since the captured female was especially used (and susceptible) for propaganda purposes.

Propaganda Video

I'll probably hear a lot of criticism for that politically incorrect statement. Smiling

Further Thoughts

British Account of Capture

Iran to maximise what it sees as a major propaganda victory

Released UK Navy Sailors Speak Out

"sharing his view of this incident with his daughter" -- I believe that Mr. Garlock was just using his daughter's favorite expression:

In the words of my 10-year-old daughter Melanie, “Goodness grief!”

"publicly tarred, feathered, and stoned" -- A little strong language there! Those words brings up vivid images of real torture, not heart-felt criticism of actions. No soldier is named and no action is called for against them.

"not public figures to be swift boated" --

The soldiers allowed themselves to be used for propaganda purposes = public, no longer private.

I don't think that the criticism is personal but is against political & military policy and training that endangers all soldiers. This recent capture yielded much more propaganda than the 2004 one did. What will the next incident be like? I believe that that is what Mr. Garlock fears -- the trend.

Garlock: "The main point is the face-off between nations, and how the behavior of POWs under difficult conditions can compromise a nation’s position."

"swift boated" -- Now, you know that I can't let that get by! Mr. Garlock's not trying to bring any consequences to these soldiers personally but is drawing attention to a military weakness. He probably would have more admiration for them if they'd acted as Sen. McCain & others did, though.

"fighting in OUR war" -- Why they are there isn't the question, rather how they conduct themselves as soldiers.

"Jane Fonda troop basher" -- As a Vietnam vet, I believe he earned that right!

"galling" and "shameful" -- Would "vexing" & "dishonorable" or "disgraceful" or "makes me want to shake my head" have been better?

He has strong feelings, probably rooted in Vietnam. But you expressed strong feelings, too.

"human emotion" -- Please try to understand Mr. Garlock's emotion & reasons for his opinion. His sentiments seem more in line with what has kept our country free for these many years rather than the current trend of appeasement. To quote Teddy Roosevelt, "Speak softly but carry a big stick."

Garlock: "Western weakness disguised as sensitivity, restraint and capitulation, a recipe to encourage future provocations."

As long as you give into bullies, they will continue intimidating you until you stand up for yourself. I had to learn this lesson the hard way in middle school. No amount of "capitulation" gave me freedom from torment. In fact, the aggression increased. Fear of the consequences of a strong response on my part kept me subdued. Until one day . . . . A show of force was all that it took to cause the bully to give me a lot more respect. And I had a lot more respect for myself, too.

Mr. Garlock gave 3 examples of bravery that give weight to his opinion. I've read Jeremiah Denton's book about being a POW, & I have to ask myself, Could I have survived with honor?

Compare the actions of the British soldiers to these men (and many others). I can understand Mr. Garlock's strong feelings & his apprehension that Western Civilization could not survive an Islamic onslaught. Knowing the history of Islamism gives me a more understanding view of Mr. Garlock. These people blow themselves to bits; they don't give up and they don't respect weakness.

UK Teachers drop the Holocaust & Crusades to avoid offending Muslims

"The discipline these troops received would be done privately."
-- But their actions were done publicly and are being used for propaganda purposes.


Corrie ten Boome (author of The Hiding Place) & her family lived in the Netherlands during the Nazi occupation & WWII. I've heard Corrie telling about her family's giving refuge to many Jews fleeing the Nazi's genocidal policies against Jews and the mentally disabled.

Her father's apprentice volunteered to go on a courier mission for the resistance network when no one else was available. The Gestapo, already suspicious, detained him, and the ten Booms began to worry for their safety and that of their "guests." Since the young man was not an "official" member of the Underground, he had not been trained to evade police questions to protect others in the network. Corrie and her family were arrested.

They were interrogated by the Gestapo. When they would not surrender any information that would endanger the lives of the Jews that were hidden in their house or the Underground members, the Gestapo sent Corrie & her sister to Ravensbruck in Germany, where they lived under conditions of near-starvation, backbreaking manual labor, and disease.

Years later a man approached Corrie. She immediately recognized him -- the Gestapo interrogator who had sent her to Ravensbruck and was responsible for the deaths of her family. Intense hatred welled up within until the man spoke. Her courage and faith had caused him finally see the destruction that his hate had caused. Corrie decided that hate was too destructive and chose to forgive him.

The ten Booms helped save the lives of an estimated 800 Jews under the most dangerous of conditions and were willing to suffer and die for their beliefs.

Their are many other examples that I could give of personal bravery that have influenced me. I just hope that, if ever needed, I'd be willing to stand for principle. Nations that have citizens who are inspired to never, ever, give up survive.


"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." -- Churchill

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 7:41pm.

There are many other examples that I could give of personal bravery that have influenced me. I just hope that, if ever needed, I'd be willing to stand for principle. Nations that have citizens who are inspired to never, ever, give up survive.

AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 9:29am.

Terry Garlock named Seaman Faye turney. Read his article again. And it is no secret who these troops are. Serving in the military does not give anyone the right to question someone's bravery or honor. Especially when your service was in a completely different conflict. You mention inadequate training of these troops, but the trainers were not the recipients of Garlock's criticism. Those that were not adequately trained were the recipients. And the reason those tapes were public is the troops were used by Iran against provisions of the Geneva Convention. And you blame them? They are exploited by Tehran and you think they give up any claims to privacy? Denise, I hope you don't weigh our own brave troops with that scale.

Kevin "Hack" King

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 10:09am.

Sorry that I missed the woman's name. I really did overlook it.

I've seen her on the news & in print; so I can't quite understand your privacy issue. I don't mean that as harsh as it sounds.

I understand that they were afraid for their lives, but I thought that staying in uniform and name, rank, & serial number was the expected behavior. I would hope that a civilian would not say for a camera things that were not true and would not seem so compliant. That's how I saw the videos. I'd just expect more from soldiers.

I "blame" the soldiers because even I know how Islamists use propaganda, contrary to the Geneva Convention, & I just would not want to be quite so helpful. I can't really picture McCain or Denton (my frame of reference) doing what the UK soldiers did.

The last I heard the UK ship (boat?) was definitely not in Iranian waters. If so, should captured troops say that they were? Should they really be saying anything other than their condition, if they can say that truthfully.

I would not treat these soldiers like most Vietnam vets were treated, nor would I hold anything against them personally, not knowing the whole story. This incident does not diminish their prior service.

But I do have to wonder if they used the best judgment and the long-term effects of their actions.

I really want to understand your point of view. If Mr. Garlock had been more general in his outrage, would you have been offended as much?

How are US soldiers instructed to act if taken captive by Iran, for example?

AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 11:41am.

Don't want to stretch this out too far, but let's make some clear distinctions.

1. We are not at war with Iran. These 15 soldiers were understandably hesitant to declare a new front in the war by challenging 6 Iranian vessels.

2. We must define perpetrator and exploited; aggressor and victim. The Brits, in my opinion, were victimized and exploited. Their good names have been tarnished, in a sense, by the Iranian government. When we learn a victim's name, do we begin asking "why was she wearing that short skirt?" "Why didn't the kids bravely fight the gunmam?" No. We don't. We don't attack the victims because we were not in their shoes. We should direct our anger to the other side of the camera lense; those filming these Brits. It pains me to see Americans buying into the Iranian propoganda, and attacking the bravery of their fellow warriors. Tehran could not ask for more; divide and conquer. Place doubt in the hearts of the coalition members. Tell our troops that they will be tried in the media across this country for how they respond to kidnapping and whatever else befalls them. Do not play into The hands of Iranian filmed propoganda. Be skeptical, and please err on the side of people fighting for you and I.

Kevin "Hack" King

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 04/20/2007 - 6:12pm.

But does their behavior become the new standard for captive SOLDIERS?

I really can see both your and Mr. Garlock's reactions. Thanks for explaining.


To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often.

~ Winston Churchill

Submitted by johenry on Wed, 04/18/2007 - 7:28pm.

Great quote, thank you!

Denise Conner's picture
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