Let me see if I understand this blog. "Old people" should pay taxes for schools and they should have their social security taken away?

Let me put this simply: You are not paying for "old people". They paid their way by paying taxes all of their lives like you do now and are complaining about.
If the gov't did stop social security you would not have any more money in your pocket. They would find other ways of getting your money from taxes. It seems you think if they stop paying "old people" social security you would pay less in taxes now. The gov't would still get plenty of money from your paycheck. It may not be called social security, but money would still be taken from your paycheck. The gov't will always get tax money for one thing or another. They will think of ways to get your money. You would not be any richer if they stopped social security payments to "old people" right now.
And lastly, social security will be there for you if they don't stop the program like you want them to do. How do I know that? Because the voters would demand the money from somewhere even if the social security funds ran out. The gov't would have to get the funds from somewhere and believe me they could. the gov't wastes millions and millions if not billions of dollars every year on all kinds of things you probably never even heard of. If they would stop wasting tax money, they would have plenty of money for soicial security in 30 years.
Social security and welfare are two different things. People on welfare don't pay taxes. People on social security have paid taxes all of their lives. Most people pay more into social security than they get out of it. They drop dead way before they do that.
Yes people should save for retirement, but it is nice to know that we have a system in place for people who need it. And the good thing is no matter how rich you are, you can still get your social security check. I have an uncle who is extremely well off and gets a check every month. He gets it because he paid into it. Not because he needs it.
I bet in 4o years when you get your check you will be glad they didn't do away with social security no matter how rich you may be.

"Why does anyone deserve a tax break?" Good point! I think that parents should not get a tax break for squatting out birthcontrol failures. In fact they should be charged an extra tax to pay for the services they are using.(ie. schools) I should not have to pay for their mistakes. People who breed like rabbits are living off of my dime. I don't appreciate it.

You are right everyone should plan ahead and support themselves. I don't think SS will be around for generation x, so you better plan ahead!

While I have a few minutes, here is another senario on the "old people living on my dime" issue (Social Security). My mother is 88 years old. My dad was two years older, but died when she was 60. Their generation faced different challenges. In their day, LOTS of people had to quit school (some still in grammer school) to help support their big families in different ways (both my parents included). My mother had 13 siblings, my dad had 12. When they had to quit school, most boys got some kind of job to earn wages, most girls stayed home to help with the younger kids, gardening, cooking, cleaning, etc. My parents were very young when Social Security was "born". They had no education. They both worked for a textile mill in Newnan. After they got married, they bought a little 3 bedroom house in East Point (because there was also a textile mill there). When Mama got pregnant with her first child, she quit work and never worked again. That's just the way it was for most families then (especially in the South, I think); the Daddys went to work, and the Mamas were housewives & Mothers. Anyway, years later when he was around 45-50 years old, my Dad got a job at the Federal Penitentiary in Atlanta. But, he died with an unexpected heart attack before he could retire. My mom has drawn his retirement (reduced because he wasn't yet retired when he died) and SS ever since (about $1,300 per month total, now). Where would she be without SS. He worked more years in the mills than at the penitentiary, so the largest check is the SS. Thanks for hanging in there long enough to read my two comments.

Except that the moral philosophy of Ethical Egoism, which underlies the whole thing, is wildly implausible and of dubious coherence.

The implausibility: On any variety of egoism, the only person to whom one has any direct duties is oneself. "Unenlightened" versions of egoism dictate that a right action for a given agent is anything that benefits her and she can ultimately get away with. This, of course, entails the moral rightness of such things as rape and child molestation just so long as those conditions obtain.

"Enlightened" versions tend to say that an enlightened calculating egoist would *always* conclude that the fair treatment of others is the thing to do because this benefits oneself in the long run. A world full of consistent egoists would be one big Hallmark commercial. But (a) it is easy to come up with counterexamples to this assertion and (b) even if this point is granted, so that consistent egoists would refrain from things like rape, we still may ask, "WHY is rape wrong on the theory of egoism?" The ONLY answer that one can give and still be an egoist is, "Rape is wrong because it wrongs the rapist."

It pains me to see book stores shelving Rand on the same shelves with Hume and Kant, Plantinga and Quine. People get the wrong impression of what it is to do philosophy. Better to shelve Rand with Astrology.

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The Surfer: That was me in '73!

Most of the regulars here probably have gotten to know me well enough to expect me to chime in on this one. Well, here it is. First of all, I think a lot of things should be considered before forming an opinion on this issue. Every generation has a different set of circumstances to deal with. Within those circumstances, some are unique. For example, I will be 57 years old later this year. I plan to retire when I reach 62. My husband is 5 years younger, so he will be working 5 years after I retire. Our yearly income combined is about $74,000 (before taxes), both working fulltime. We live in a modest house in Fetlock Meadows in PTC and absolutely love it here. Our mortgage is almost $1,200 a month, before taxes. Our house will not be paid off for a long time. All we can do is pay it down as much as possible and refinance the rest when we retire to get our payment down. Even if we paid it off, our property taxes and homeowners insurance are about $3,300 a year, that now is going into an escrow account. That equates to roughly $275.00 per month, which in the coming years will only go up. If the house was paid off, we would have to come up with that out of our retirement. My retirement will be about $1,200 a month (without SS it would be about half that). My husband's will be comparable. Where in the world would I be without the SS portion? I had a very modest upbringing. My two brothers and I finished high school, but there was no way we could futher our educations. Finally, I was able to take some technical courses at Atlanta Area Technical school in the late 70's. I could only go part time, because I had to work fulltime to support myself and my two kids (deadbeat dad; no contact, no child support, no interest). That got me out of the minimum wage type jobs and into my first office job. I made $636.00 monthly before taxes to start. Boy, was that rough. There were times that I wondered how in the world we were going to make it. We endured some skimpy Christmas holidays, but with God's help, we always made it. And I can add, in all the rough times to come after that, I never applied for welfare or anything similar. I did have to move in with my parents (with kids in tow), twice. In later years, I married the man I'm married to now. Now, we are blessed to have the kids grown, grandkids and each other to enjoy, and are looking forward to our modest retired life.

One thing we all pretty much have in common is that we’ll be 65 one day.

To those who believe the benefits extended to persons over the age of 65 should be removed I can only say that I hope they’re all removed the year you turn 64.

One of the biggest problems I see with media is that the older people run it, so it's very hard to get published if you write something that criticizes them. It is not often that you hear someone from Gen X complain about older people in mainstream media.

First of all, it's a no-brainer that older people should pay for the education of younger people. Forty-year-olds cannot support the whole universe -- young and old.

Additionally, it's a no-brainer that when you hear from a Gen Xer who is complaining, you should listen. Gen Xers are not a vociferoous group. And older generations have a lock on the media. So stop jumping all over this blog post and do a little listening to hear a fresh perspective. You might learn something.

Penelope Trunk
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com

Concerned Citizen,

That is some awfully harsh rhetoric but let's look at this objectively. True; you and I will not likely see a penny of Social Security. However, that's because our generation has fewer children to support the system. (Sounds like a pyramid scheme, doesn't it? You only collect if you bring in three, middle-income wage-earners to pay your way.) And even if we had more children, the corporatist government allows the businesses (from which many of those "old people" retired with full pensions) to move jobs overseas and keep those fat tax breaks they get from the government (tax breaks that were created on the theory that you encourage job creation when you give tax breaks for creating jobs). So, we could have more children but what jobs would they hold (and what wages would those jobs pay) to support the Social Security system so that we would ever get our due?

Meanwhile, our generation is told that we are stupid for not saving like those "old people" did. (Of course, they neglect to mention that those "old people" didn't start their adult life with a mortgage-sized student loan which delays home ownership, investing and even childbearing, for those who actually endeavor to be responsible parents.) We are a selfish generation for wanting to have the kinds of jobs those "old people" had, with strong, American companies that treated their employees like people (rather than "human resources" to be exploited, laid off by e-mail and escorted off the premises like criminals). We dare to believe that an honest day's work should be compensated with an honest day's pay and access to at least basic medical care when we fall ill. How immature we are to want what those "old people" had -- the opportunity to do better than our parents. Really, shame on us. But I digress . . . . Let's look at your statements.

"Just because you don’t have kids in school does not mean that you don’t benefit from having a good school system."

I agree. The most important reason to keep supporting the school system is that it supports your property value. People choose Fayette County because we have a great school system. Aaaaand a great school system, coupled with higher property values, is more likely to encourage middle-to-upper class families with strong work ethics and respectable family values to move here, stay here and work here. So, unless you like spending your golden years up close and personal with the riff-raff . . . .

"The Governor has a new item on his Sonny do list. Let the retired folks off the hook for state taxes. Bad idea. Let’s look at the reason for wanting this. .... VOTE BUYING!"

Of course, he's buying votes. After all, he can't say that he has done much for consumer protection (including those who rip off the elderly). He sure hasn't done much for access to basic medical health care for children and the elderly. And, he must not have been much of a student in geography because his big campaign ad about illegal immigration assumes that the first stop after illegally crossing the border of the United States is a welfare office in Georgia. (Give it a moment . . . it'll sink in.) He also has to buy votes because his party hoodwinked seniors into that stupid prescription drug debacle. Through that effort they learned that old people show up to the polls (which means they are to be pandered to); young people sit home, play with their video games and gripe. Which one would you think is worth courting? (Are you a registered voter? Have you educated yourself about the issues beyond the propoganda commercials? Are you encouraging friends and relatives to be educated voters? If the answer to those is "no" then, consider yourself not worth being courted -- and more likely to be shafted.)

"The only people that should be exempt from paying taxes are those who have served their country."

I agree that any vet who has served in a war deserves to live well, as they have answered the call (even if the call is to an unjustifiable, bullpuckey war concocted solely to benefit the military industrial complex with your tax dollars -- waaay more tax dollars than you will ever have to pay into Social Security over the course of your entire life).

"Old people will read this and say that I am disrespectful of the retired. The answer is that I am not disrespectful but have a different view on this whole retirement thing."

Well, I have to say that you are disrespectful (although you can't be blamed because our country is one of a very few that teaches young people that it's okay to disrespect the elderly). If you don't support legal protection for older workers so that they can continue to work longer, then you are likely blaming some people for being retired who simply could not find another job when the last one came to an end (voluntarily or otherwise).

"Your retirement is YOUR responsibility. I don’t want to hear any more complaining about “fixed incomes.” It’s yours and you have to make due."

Wow, I'll remember that the next time I see some old couple who is struggling to keep what little they have after one of them is diagnosed with cancer or has a debilitating stroke. When their fixed income doesn't cover chemo or rehab, under your analysis, its their fault. (By the way, that whole your-retirement-is-your-responsibility thing is what the senior citizens in office (like Sonny Don't) are selling gen-X-ers like us so that they can help their corporate friends dump their pension plans and stiff us with defined contribution plans that are guaranteed not to sustain us in our retirement.)

"People (ALL PEOPLE) are responsible for themselves. If you can’t make it, welfare is available but it’s just to keep a roof over your head and food in your stomach. Your retirement is YOUR responsibility. .... If I didn’t have to pay your share, I could maybe keep some more of my own money."

Now, THIS is an interesting juxtaposition. You don't mind having your paycheck decreased for welfare (a benefit which one assumes you think is only for the "poor and unmotivated") but you resent paying for Social Security. My question to you is this: when old people suffer from catastrophic illnesses that wipe out their life savings, are they irresponsible or do they just join the ranks of the poor and unmotivated? Mind you, I don't believe in tax breaks for the elderly because "elderly" can include Truett Cathy, Warren Buffet and Dick Chaney (and because I don't believe in tax breaks for select groups other than the military). I am simply trying to test the internal logic of your argument.

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If you and I are always in agreement, one of us is likely armed and dangerous.

Regarding retirees being exempted from paying school taxes, don't believe I would have put it like you did, Concerned Citizen, but I agree in principle. A good well funded school system is of value to all citizens of a community even retirees. Why? Well for one thing, it helps keep up property value. Fayette County is a prime example. Why do a lot of people want to move here? The schools. Supply and demand help keep the value in our houses up even retirees' housing. It also helps keep jobs in the community. So I say retirees have a definite vested interest in the schools even if they no longer have kids in school. I say this even though my wife retires next year and I'm not far behind her.

As far as Sonny buying votes, well duh, he is a politician and all of them buy votes one way or another. Just like Mark Taylor buying votes with his health insurance proposals. Sad to say, but that's the American political system.

May I kindly suggest that you quietly delete this blog and hope that everyone forgets it? Here, you merely play into the hands of those who wish to say that those of your generation somehow missed the lessons on virtue.

I am more than prepared to argue the point with you if need be, but it is hard to imagine that someone would persist with such an opinion after careful consideration.

Where do you get the impression that "old people" are living on your dime? Disrespectful of old people? No, you are just plain disrespectful. You may have an education but, you certainly have no class.

I still have several years before I retire and by that time I will have been paying taxes for almost 50 years and property and school tax just a few years less. How do you figure that my retirement will be on your dime? I'm sure I have paid my fair share into the social security system and into the very infrastructure of the life blood of Fayette County and this country. I certainly don't begrudge a dime I earned to those retired folks that are, forced in some cases, to live on that fixed income and are receiving the pittance I was able to share with them through my hard work. It was through their hard work and taxes that I was able to grow up in this country with many advantages I probably would not have had without them having come before me.

At least you are in favor of the disabled veterns getting "paid" for their service to this country. If I am reading this correctly, you must give up a piece of your body or abilities to qualify. Interesting.

Who do you think worked to have those good schools? You?

You should be ashamed that you had the aduacity to even think of putting that blog in this paper. Perhaps you should look into counseling regarding your self centered viewpoint on life. You have my pity. I won't suggest you talk to your minister regarding this issue because I am almost certain you have no Christian foundation.

Remember that "old people" paved the way for you, not you for them.

I have to assume that all you want is to stir up controversy and don't mean a darn thing you say, so I'll go along.
I'll have you know that I bought the roads you drive on. I bought the military force that has protected you since you were born, and I served several years in, during the Korean war. I helped provide the very income you have by working hard at our economy for 40 years, and owning my own business for 15. I don't expect to put one dollar into my casket when I die to take with me, nor will you. However, I would like to leave my kids a little better off than I was when my parents died. Might I suggest we shoot everyone at 55 and save some real money? Those that are sick, at 45.

I love it how right before election time some of the opposing parties come up with the most ludicrous and outlandish stuff to gripe about. You need to rethink this one Concerned Citizen. You're asking fate to bite you!!

Ok Concerned Citizen take your mind set out of Fayette County for a second before you start to bad mouth every old person in the state. Some people were not born with a college degree like yourself, many did not have the opportunity to go to college. They worked for someone and where able to have a little savings and social security to retire on. And after paying high taxes for the school system all their life, now they will get a little break. Ok I hope when you are old someone looks out for you as an old person more then you do now. Hope you like cat food for supper when you are 80.