PTC has legal duty to clean up old dump

Tue, 08/22/2006 - 4:44pm
By: The Citizen

As you read in last week’s Citizen, it is quite possible that the Police Department facility could be suffering from water infiltrating the foundation from underground. The report, filed by Eagle Indoor Air, should be a wake-up call for Peachtree City.
Over six years ago, the city elected to purchase an unregulated dump from Pathway with taxpayer dollars. That site is also the location that was chosen for the police headquarters.
Although I consider there to have been some public disclosure problems from the government related to that specific purchase, the fact of the matter is we knowingly bought a dump from a local influential development interest.
Since the City Council at the time of purchase had a report in hand describing an unregulated dumping history on the site, the city is in a position of legal responsibility for whatever negative affect the buried waste might have on the surrounding area, including water quality.
I was glad to read that Eagle Indoor Air is going to pursue some further geotechnical work as well as test the groundwater for hazardous materials.
A couple of years ago, a contractor began some excavation work on that site. The work ceased because his equipment unearthed trash and water. Until that instance my council and the city manager did not know that the site had formerly been an unregulated dumping ground.
The action proved there was, in fact, water intermingling with the buried waste. Since the trash, sewage sludge and debris were randomly dumped in large holes in the ground without professional supervision and soil liners, a problem exists with water being present also.
I spoke to couple of people whom I respect when it comes to environmental issues. Both suggested that the site be excavated and the waste removed in a responsible manner. Since a possibility exists that there could be toxic materials in the ground and liners were not used, I fully support cleaning the site.
Since the taxpayers are most likely legally responsible for the site, and we have no reliable documentation of what is buried there, cleaning the site would make us environmentally accountable and help us avoid the possibility of lawsuits in the future.
On a final note, the City Council should be aware that a large dumping site, dubbed the “Peach Pit,” exists within the proposed Westside annexation area. That dump is also a remnant from Pathway.
It would certainly be in the best interest of the taxpayers to thoroughly examine all of the options via objective geotechnical and water studies, especially avoiding the acquisition of that particular parcel.
In turn, having the Peach Pit become the common property of a bunch of unknowing homeowners through their association would not be fair either. This matter is not something that can be worked out on a moment’s notice at a council meeting, and I hope they perform the necessary work in advance.
Steve Brown
Peachtree City, Ga.
[Brown served as mayor of Peachtree City beginning in 2002. He lost a reelection bid in 2005.]

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Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 7:45am.

Let me see if I got this right: Pathway development company already has sold the taxpayers one dump and now they want to build way beyond the orginal city plan and sell us another?
We the taxpayers are supposed to be doing handsprings over the great opportunity to spend our money cleaning up their dump?
I don't think we need the west annex that badly.
We need to cleanup the land surrounding the police station, before our officers get sick from working in a moldy environment. We need to fix one problem before we move on to the next one.
Further more does the Federal Gov. know about the illegal dump under the police station? Even if Pathways tries to deny any knowledge of the illegal dumping, they can still be held liable. Just like that farmer in Palmeto or was it Newnan? He leased his property to a man who dumped hazardous waste on it and the feds went after after him, not the man who leased it and actually did the dumping.
Pathways could be subjected to millions of dollars in fines and have to pay for the costly cleanup. What has our city attorney been doing? He needs to get busy and protect our interestes for a change.
The case of the farmer just happened last year, so I don't think that federal law has changed in that short period of time.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Tue, 08/22/2006 - 7:07pm.

Having been your opposition on many issues, it is only fair and responsible for me to say you are 100% right on this one.

The headline "PTC has legal duty ..." is probably Cal's idea, but no, PTC - meaning city government, does not have a legal duty to clean up the mess - PCDC/Pathways/Equitable does. I assume the headline is not your fault and in that spirit, I will continue.

Yes indeed the land purchased should have been completely researched and tested ahead of time and if it was not - shame on the purchaser (the city). If it was and all the research showed nothing bad, then the trail leads back to PCDC. There is a legal requirement that they should provide the purchaser with a disclosure statement about their history of ownership of the property and what they knew and what they did not.

If they did provide a proper disclosure and the city ignored the "I don't know" answers and did not conduct their own research - shame on the city. If PCDC said "no" to the pollution questions - that needs to be pursued - big time and right now before they hide their assets. That would be worth a minimum of $10,000,000 in federal court.

Moving on to the subject of the "Peach Pit" there is no way they can go forgetful on that one. Several ex-employees still living and living here have photos of paint cans and 55-gallon drums in that site. One of the best pictures (currently in someone's ex-wife's safe deposit box)is Black and Mitchell and XXXXX and YYYYY dumping beer kegs and cases of beer into that dump site around 1979. Not a good place for a soccer field (who proposed that, Steve?)

If Wieland bought that tract where the Peach Pit is - shame on him. But, same deal - he should look at the disclosures from PCDC.

So, crusader, what are you going to do next. Write a letter? or maybe pursue a real problem caused by developers. If you are honest about your motivations, you will tilt at this windmill - and candidly, you will have a chance and even my support. And if you win this one you have a chance at statewide office.

meow


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 7:05pm.

You are certainly correct that the Pathways people contributed to the pollution at the Peach Pit, and the photo you mention is being scanned and about to be sent to the newspaper. Looks like two immature rednecks with beards coming back from a hunting trip in a red Ford pick up truck. Amazing what 25 years does to your image.

Others have made the point about a liner for the dumping grounds and I believe the law at the time did not require one. You (mudcat) who was there and had some responsibility should know this. Please fess up.


mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Thu, 08/24/2006 - 5:34am.

Not there Robert. Did not take the picture. Peach Pit was dormant and covered up before my time.

Think twice about releasing the photo now. Better to hold it back until after they spin some story that needs rebuttal.
meow


Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Tue, 08/22/2006 - 7:47pm.

Mudcat, from what I read, "...the City Council at the time of purchase had a report in hand describing an unregulated dumping history on the site..." sounds like PCDC's off the hook. Maybe the Citizen will give more detail on the "report in hand" part.

Vote Republican


mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 5:45am.

At least they are if everything Brown stated in his letter is true - remember he wasn't mayor then. But, if the report was not complete, the results altered or edited, then anyone who participated in that would be liable. This thing has all the earmarks of secret meeting and inconveinent facts being swept under the rug. Thankfully, Brown is on the case and there will be open records request and eventually someone from council or staff 6 years ago will come forward and enlighten us.
meow


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 8:16am.

Pathways allowed dumping in an area not protected by a liner. I think they are still liable. Even though the police station was not built right on top of the dump; without a liner all of that toxic waste can spread. They may have disclosed that there was a dump, but did they mention that it was an illegal dump (ie without a liner to protect the environment)?
If our city attorney doesn't wake up it sounds like the taxpayers are in for another huge "treat".

Submitted by Reality Bytes on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 6:20am.

I'm surprised people don't remember the confrontation between Bob Lenox and Steve Brown at a council meeting last year (where Lenox called Brown a "moron") where they both had the entire environmental report in their hands. Steve Brown read one sentence of it and surmised that the whole site was unworthy. Bob Lenox actually went through the entire report (and read it in front of the crowd at Council) that explained the exact area where the PD was built. The report said that while there was dumping nearby, it wasn't in the area where the PD was built!

If somebody remembers that meeting, or even has a copy of the report, please bring it online so we can shut Mr. "I Was Right" Brown up.
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Wow, people really ARE stupid!

PTC Guy's picture
Submitted by PTC Guy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 2:26pm.

The Station was built on a dump site.

Trying to play a semantical game of not being direct upon, but fully adjacent to, is a bad argument.

Would you build a home on a nodule of land in the middle of a landfill or dump site that is covered over? Or an a piece of land in a marsh? Or immediately next door to either?

That is what happened. And where the water is coming from via the the report.

“No major water issues stemming from leaks, storm water damage or other obvious culprits could be found,” the report said. “The water infiltrating the building is likely groundwater; it is possible that the old landfill near the building has trapped a large amount of moisture. This moisture could now be seeping into the building.”

Brown was right. Again. It was a terrible moved and Good Ole Boy, not sound thinking.

You must build UP from the ground if you are going to do so in such area. Not down into.

Or else build one whale of an expensive moisture barrier.

Yea. I remember this. And knew it was a mistake that would end up on in some kind of problem.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.


Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 9:55am.

Blogger Jenny Saypah is thinking in reverse. I remember reading about Lenox's rude behavior (what's new) at the council meeting. As a rule, I found that Lenox never blew his stack unless he was in big trouble.

Look what that glorious purchase got us: 1) a faulty police station that requires a fix estimated in the $300,000 range; 2) an unregulated dump. The sad part is it looks as though Pathway walks away from the deal with no liability whistling all the way to the bank. Wait a minute, you're Jenny Saypah, VP of Marketing for Pathway aren't you?

Was the report even an environmental report? Cal please print the report.

Vote Republican


PTC Guy's picture
Submitted by PTC Guy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 1:52pm.

Was leader a of the Anyone But Brown group.

You don't think he is going to admit now he was wrong about Logsdon, do you?

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.


Submitted by Reality Bytes on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 9:34pm.

This one's just for PTC Guy, just so that you remember how I started here almost a year ago.

Honest Government

I support Dar Thompson for mayor. This is why...but first, something I thought was funny...I was talking to a friend of mine about all this election stuff, and he said "Steve Brown's 'honesty' is kinda like telling your wife she looks fat in that dress".

Truth and honesty are definitely admirable qualities to have. So is discretion, compassion, mercy and understanding. Those who fight for principles only for the sake of principles often have only a narrow focus and, therefore, cannot understand the larger picture. Something to consider when you head to the polls tomorrow.

I do not support Mr. Brown's reelection because of his polarizing attitude (right or wrong) and his penchant for headline grabbing. It's time for someone to build the city, not try to break it down. If there's a problem, handle it WITHOUT putting it on channel 5 or the front page of the newspaper. If Dar Thompson is true to his word, we'll only see him at Council meetings and the occassional ribbon cutting or photo op, and that's alright with me.

I also believe that no candidate except for Thompson has provided ANY concrete examples or concepts to put more money into PTC coffers. This election isn't about moral obligations, it's about the next four years and how the government will continue and expand its services to the community.

The City is now in a maintenance mode, having to pay for items formally provided by developers as they built subdivisions and associated infrastructures. We don't get that anymore. To continue paving roads and paths, providing top-tier public safety and recreation, and keeping the water we drink and bathe in safe and clean all costs money.

It's a shame that taxes will go up, but please understand...THEY WILL HAVE TO. Cutting "the fat" is simply an exercise in futility. The City of Peachtree City has fewer government employees per capita than any city its size in the Atlanta area. For a town of nearly 36,000, there are only about 250 employees. That's one employee for every 144 people. I don't know about you, but that seems like PTC does pretty well for what it has.

The high standards the citizens have set for having quality recreation options cannot be reduced without consequences. So if we can't cut employees (and more appropriate, can't continue to recruit and hire good municipal employees and pay them a living wage), can't cut services and have to pay for repairs we haven't had to before (path rebuilding, stormwater mandates, etc.), how do we go on?

This is now a critical point in the City's history, as buildout on the residential side reaches its apex. The focus of this government should be to encourage industry and business to move in. The current mayor spoke, almost with glee, of the the loss of "low paying jobs" at Photocircuits and the opportunities to bring in better companies. Well, that may be the case, and that's admirable, but that's better than the multitude of FOR SALE signs you see as you drive down Dividend Drive (and, more importantly, in the neighborhoods in town). I think we shouldn't be too restrictive when an industry is looking to stay or move in the area, unless it is just egregiously harmful to the environment - and say what you will about Photocircuits, it do not believe it was that harmful. We need the tax base, plain and simple.

I hope that people look through the Development Authority issue and other "smokescreens" to the stark economic realities facing this area, especially as Coweta, Tyrone and Fairburn continue to grow. The people will be coming to live there, but they'll be coming to PTC to shop, to dine, to be entertained...they'll be putting stress on our roads and paths, trash in our facilities. The City MUST do everything it can to keep money coming in, and quite simply that means raising revenue every way we can.

It's time to stop the infighting and move forward. I believe that Dar Thompson can do that, which is why I will be voting for him tomorrow.

Please criticize my ideas; I appreciate the debate. But if you do it, please provide substantiation for it - baseless accusations and name calling have no more place in this forum.

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Wow, people really ARE stupid!

Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Thu, 08/24/2006 - 10:28am.

For the record, because I really don't know, what were Dar's concrete postions on taxes?

It is still humorous, Mr. Jenny Saypah, how you can condemn someone for what they say, and yet you go broadcasting, on the worldwide web no less, that Brown is comparable to mass murders, war criminals, Communist dictators and people who assault law enforcement officers. When is comes to sensationalism, Mr. Jenny Saypah, you take the cake, no question about it. At least I had the guts to admit I made a mistake with Logsdon. You're just dodging the blame for your support behind Dar Thompson.

You said the development authority scandal was a "smokescreen" - get real. Even the development authority guys admitted to wrong doing. And Photocircuits was an environmentally friendly business, please get your medication adjusted. Do you remember when the two employees went down in the parking lot overwhelmed by chlorine fumes? Or how about the time the employees came spilling out of the building coughing a wheezing on their knees. The fire department had to strip them naked and decontaminate them.

All that aside, I would love to know what Dar's concrete budget/tax plan was? I hope it was better than your "expect your taxes to increase no matter what" position.

Vote Republican


PTC Guy's picture
Submitted by PTC Guy on Thu, 08/24/2006 - 8:11am.

Do not hide behind Dar.

After he lost you became a Lodgsdon supporter.

Not for his positions, but because he was not Brown.

And now, because of voting personality, not issues, we have Logsdon.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.


Submitted by Reality Bytes on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 9:26pm.

Hear ye, read ye...the great and all powerful force known as idontknow has decided to grace you with another insightful commentary. Prepare to dry heave.
Sorry - this will be posted in more than one place tonight.

I was a leader in the "Anybody But Brown" group. OK, but I actually had a purpose way back when.

I was a member of the "Dar Thompson for Mayor" group. People seem to quickly forget that one.

Here's my major gripe about the blogosphere and "opinions" posted in and around here.

Is Harold perfect? No. Is Steve perfect? No. Am I perfect? Well, of course I am Smiling

But, as I stated multiple, multiple times before, my goal is to enjoy a government whose "elected leaders" not make a habit of calling Fox 5 before trying to solve issues with the professional staff, fellow elected officials and other citizens of this City.

An irony that I have seen over the years here is how every time Fayette County made the news, it used to be about a severe thunderstorm warning, and even then it was like we were "so far away" from metro Atlanta we didn't count.

I know there will always be problems and issues. I don't, however, need to see them leading the 6:00 news. We're NOT that big of a town - Steve Brown used (and still uses) the media in a symbiotic lovefest. He gets his name in the paper; the press sells papers. That's my beef with the man. For all the good he did, he did it at the expense of other good people, people who helped to build the foundation of this town (yes, this crumbling, faltering town, but that's not their fault - it's yours.)

Why is it your fault? Did you not realize that YOU were asleep at the wheel? You moved into town, settled into your life, and let all these "horrible" decisions happen without actually speaking up. This anonymous soapbox seems to have released the feelings of many - well how about you stop being anonymous and make yourselves known?

Should folks be involved? Certainly; it's your right and responsibility. I have been to many council meetings where I was the only one in the room, other than City staff. That's the thing that bothers me the most. Put up or shut up! Make yourself known; get involved "officially" instead of throwing barbs from the cheap seats.

Or do you really care at all? I don't think many of you who blog here actually do care, else you'd be truly involved, maybe even running for office yourselves. But I'm sure you couldn't take the heat.

Here's tonight's poll, specifically for those who enjoy to blog a lot - feel free to leave your blogger ID when you respond.

Are you willing to put your money where your keyboard is?

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Wow, people really ARE stupid!

PTC Guy's picture
Submitted by PTC Guy on Wed, 08/23/2006 - 10:14pm.

You voted against Brown's personality, not his positions.

Get off the Dar excuse. Once he lost in the Primary he was history and you backed Logsdon because he was not Brown.

We have Logsdon because too many voted personality and not issues, like you did.

Now, we are paying for it in very real terms.

You don't see turmoil because of him? Turmoil from silence is better than turmoil from noise when the silent position is so destructive?

OK. Blaze away. Keep trying to defend Lodgsdon because he is not Brown.

Logsdon is now voting and taking positions. That is the reality now.

A growing number of people are realizing their mistake, too late.

You are still one crazy one. Talk to you later.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.


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