"It means that driving while talking on a cell phone is as bad as or maybe worse than driving drunk, which is completely unacceptable and cannot be tolerated by society."
That is the summantion and what you chose to post.

And that statement is rediculous. Shows a flawed study.

Places that are passing hands free only laws are doing for good reason.

Equating hand held usage as the same in impact as hands free, in all cases, can be rejected by anyone using common sense.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy
I’m not a member of the “The Journal of the Human Factors and Ergonomics Society” nor do I have any affiliation with the University of Utah psychological department but I doubt that either you nor I, or for that matter most people that write to this forum, have the education, experience or background to call the study, “ridiculous” or “Shows a flawed study.”.

I will except that you disagree with the outcome of said study, but please refrain from attempting to show that you are more skilled in this area of study than those that are.

That is the summation and what you chose to post. And that statement is ridiculous. Shows a flawed study.

I believe that I have adhered to “our code” as to provide facts. What you have provided is your opinion. That is by no means a fact, I don’t care how loud you say it.

If you have a study that contradicts mine, I’ll be more than happy to read it.

P. S. Basamati is going to be all over you about the two typo’s. (I have typo’ed worse myself)

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Since when did it require a degree to see a logical fallacy?

Right off the bat they used a 2 dimensional environment to test. That alone skews the results. It takes a 3 dimensional environment to factually test distance and other such factors.

Put a patch on one eye and go drive and test your reaction times and braking distance. Hope you know a good body shop.

As for Basmati, so what?

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Agreed, we shall agree to disagree on this one.

I was on one of those double decker buses in Las Vegas one day. We were trying to leave the bus terminal but were blocked.
The woman driving the car blocking us had a cell phone to her head and was trying to enter a buses only, one way in the wrong direction road.

Yes, cell phones are dangerous in vehicles, as are other distractions.

I'd still like to see a better study on exactly how dangerous it is, comparisons between held-to-the-head, hands-frees, talking with someone in the car, and if some people can handle it better than others.
I have seen people on cell phones in cars driving just fine. They just aren't obvious because they aren't being stupid.

The other thing to consider when comparing drunk driving with cell phone to the head driving is the fact that you cant hang up being drunk - it lasts the entire trip.

Yep. Agree.

When I am just chatting with my wife, as I would if she were in the car, I have less distraction on the speaker phone than when she is there.

There is no body movement, no temptation to look over at her, as is human instinct or all the others.

At best, someone would tnink some nut is talking too himself.

It does nothing to block my vision, impede my hands or whatever.

If things start to get s little tight, I say hold it, call you back or simply stop talking, as I would do if she were sitting there.

Driving and distractions are complex issues. Not simple, as is being presented by some here.

I urge anyone buying new car, if they can afford it, to add the blue tooth. It cannot be compared to a hand held cell. And 99% of the commands are voice activated. Your hands do not even leave the steering wheel.

Really, I push one button, which is easy access and say Dial someones name that I have pre programmed in. Or, if not programmed, say the phone number. You do not even manually dial.

Now. Compare that to a hand held tucked between shoulder and ear.

Even a blue tooth ear piece is one button then voice commands, as well.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I've seen folks just stop in the road on their cell phones. People don't even realize what they are doing. It's much different talking on the phone than talking to a passenger. Many of the conversations are buisiness related, and require critical thinking. This is usually not true of conversations with a passenger in the car, this is usually a spouse or child of the driver. I think this makes a huge difference in how people react when on cell phones. Ie, the "nature" of the conversation.

That and .08 is usually not very impaired for most folks, makes me believe the study was spot on.

I see as many 'chatters' on the phones as business people.

As I said before. The nature of any conversation has a massive impact on driving skills.

You cannot lump all calls into one basket.

It is different talking to a passenger. You are constantly taking your eyes off the road to look at your passenger.

A speaker cell phone has less risk than speaking to a passenger because you are not constantly looking at them. But keep the complex thoughts and conversations off the road, cell phone or no cell phone.

I don't care what is going on, do not try to do critical thinking and read papers in a vehicle. The phone has nothing to do with that issue and those who try to attach it strictly to cells are not being honest.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I find it difficult to believe and would like to have been present during the study to understand the test environment better but even if the results are exaggerated against phones while driving, it should stop.

Never trust a statistic you didn't falsify yourself

Phones on heads are not allowed in Germany (hands free are) and I put 80.000 KMs on two BMW GS motorcycles in about 4 years at minimum crusing speeds above 80 mph - top speeds of about 110-120 MPH. I think my survival during this period was probably a direct result of that law, even though it was not always followed (despite about $45 fine if caught).

They did not study talking to a passenger into the results.

Nor did they give separate stats for causual hand free conversations versus complex.

The idea that it is more dangerous to have a casual conversation via a speaker than to talk to a passenger is ludicrous. As is having a phone in your hand being equal to having both hands on the steering wheel, head up and eyes forward.

Yes, anything and everything that is not stricktly driving reduces efficiency. But it is foolish to say it is okay to talk to passengers but not safe to have a speaker phone conversations.

And saying equal to driving drunk is beyond absurdity when the distinctions are not made and tested.

I am not defending hand held conversations, trying to do business on the road, or any other complex thninking issues. But equating all these things as equal is absurd.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

If you haven't been about runover by phone talkers yet, several times, then you don't drive very much! Anything you mentioned is dangerous to a driver sometimes, of course. The difference is that most of these car phone and grocery store and street walkers and doctors office talkers, are addicted to the thing. Ever listen to the conversations? Pitiful. 99% of business men can also wait for the next stop, off the road, don't tell me they can't.

If you haven't been about runover by phone talkers yet, several times, then you don't drive very much!

I average about 20,000 miles a year. That should answer that question.

I have also had them cut in front of me and hit the brakes, try to change lanes into the side of me, swerve all over the road, even run off it and be in the left lane driving slowly.

Anything you mentioned is dangerous to a driver sometimes, of course. The difference is that most of these car phone and grocery store and street walkers and doctors office talkers, are addicted to the thing.

I will not argue with you there!!

It never leaves their ear. Or they will get in the car, pull out of the parking lot and start dialing, without paying any attention to who they have cut off or their driving real slow to dial is ticking off.

Ever listen to the conversations? Pitiful. 99% of business men can also wait for the next stop, off the road, don't tell me they can't.

Absolutely will not.

As I said, calls should be hands free and not more complex that the general chit chat you would do with a passenger.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I agree with that, and you can also add in lighting a cigarette, eating a bigmac, drinking a coke, putting in a CD.

I have also heard of statistics that show that a conversation on a hands free doesn't make it as safe as no phone call at all.

On the other hand, the two instances I witnessed were complicated by holding the device to the head with one hand.
The young lady on the golf cart couldn't turn the wheel fast enough with only one hand free to avoid damage to the curb and the cart. In the other instance, the hand holding the phone to the left side of the head limited the drivers peripheral vision and interfered with our mnaking eye contact.

Gotta update this. On my trip today I met a headphoned oncoming cart on the wrong side of the path in a curve.
Not a mile later I met a headphoned bicyclest who was not aware of me till he looked in his review mirror.
But both of these incidents bothered me less because there was no real risk. The slow speeds of the carts allowed evasive action before contact, and the biker had a mirror which he used to let me pass fairly quickly.

I have also heard of statistics that show that a conversation on a hands free doesn't make it as safe as no phone call at all.

Those stats are not very well filtered. Not at all.

No one can tell me that there is no difference between having your hands full and listening to a speaker.

Of course, if one is trying to read papers, run complex thinking through their mind, and so on, that is dangerous. But no more dangerous than one doing it while talking to a passenger or trying to deal with a problem, in their head, while pretending to drive.

They do not note those simple facts in their stats and conclusions. They just lump it all together.

I sure can tell the difference when driving.

Anything that pulls ones visual attention away from driving, or divides their physical actions, reduces ones driving safety.

Kids, dates, arguments and such need to be taken off the road when they result in one driver trying to deal with two issues at the same time.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

But what I actually meant is that I have heard stats that show that tallking with a phone on head is more dangerous than talking to a hamds free, which is more dangerous than no phone call.
But because removing all distracting activity while driving is impossible, I made the distinction.
Also, in the two cases I saw, they would not have been nearly as bad if a hands free had been in use.

Thanks for the clarification.

As well, maybe some people do not realize there are different forms of hand free. I prefer the speaker to any kind of ear piece.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Yes. Pull over to talk. But please; NOT in the middle of the path or just in front of the intersection. FInd a wide place in the path or a parking lot.

But with bikes and carts I haven't seen so many problems - and at least here both hands are free to steer the cart.

However, the path rules do say that people on foot have priority over the golf cars, and that golf cars need to have a signal for pedestrians when approaching from behind.
Maybe the apropriate signal for this is one of those canned airhorns used at sports events. For pedestrians using headphones, blowing the horn about three inches from the back of the head should be about enough to make sure they hear ...
JUST KIDDING!