When this issue came up weeks ago I contacted a former city staffer who confirmed that the city had been notified of CSX's intentions.

I don't know the story of the RR siding, but you can bet that the people who bought the homes all along the tracks were not notified that a siding where thumpy-d-bumps would be occuring, switching cars, in addition to the horns and whistles, would occur. Then or recently. It is a developers paradise here. Some developer should have had to build a bridge over the tracks near the old Comcast tower long ago. Now, also, today and many days, about half of the comments are "Access Denied." This is most irritating. Can't you just send them back and not put the titles up?

Quick Question...

Did you ever have discussions regarding the "Comcast Crossing" with CSX during your tenure?

To answer Mr. idontknow's question, yes we did. My purpose for wanting to annex the second Wieland parcel was specifically to gain the at-grade crossing at South Kedron Drive. Nearly everyone I spoke to, city staff and citizens, agreed that particular access point was vital.

One problem I had to solve was figuring out how much the at-grade crossing was going to cost. Tying an at-grade crossing into a lighted intersection, the need for a long deceleration lane, etc. meant it was going to be expensive. It was my intention to let the Wieland people pay for it in exchange for an appropriate and suitable plan in conjunction with annexation.

I was part of a meeting that included a Wieland representative, Greg Dunn, Lynn Westmoreland (then a State Rep.), CSX representatives and various staff from the different entities. I think someone from Pathway was there too. I did not set this meeting up but was a willing participant.

At the meeting with CSX, maps were unfolded showing the land in question, the roads and the at-grade crossing. Everyone in the meeting, even Greg Dunn, agreed that the at-grade crossing was vital. As far as Dunn was concerned, he made no commitments regarding his approval of an annexation, but did say it needed to happen even if the land stayed in the county.

The CSX people were happy that we could close down two existing at-grade crossings and route that traffic to the South Kedron Drive point. The CSX people understood what we wanted to do and never made mention of any plans for the auxiliary track. The rail maps that they displayed did not reflect any future infrastructure on that site. They expressed that they were willing to work with us.

We all left that meeting with the notion that it was up to the city to work out the logistics. I conducted several public workshops and Wieland sponsored some public charettes. Unfortunately, Councilmen Rapson and Weed were against annexation as a matter of policy. Councilmen Rutherford and Kourajian were not against it but they were not pushing it either.

Later on I made a motion at a council meeting to send the Wieland site into the city's evaluation process with the conditions of no apartments and no more than 300 homes built on site. It passed 4-1, I think Weed was the only one opposed (in the back of my mind, I picture Judi voting in opposition too - have to check the record).

I knew about the auxiliary track in February-March of this year. I simply drove over to the site and asked the construction guys what they were doing?

The auxiliary track is water under the bridge right now. What we need to do is pull together a tremendous effort to get it moved. I have made it known that I am willing to participate in that process.

Steve Brown

idontknow, I would be interested in reading what you think we should do about the at-grade crossing situation at South Kedron Drive?

Thanks,
Steve Brown

My only question is, would you rather Peachtree City be in control, or Tyrone? I'm of the belief that it will be annexed, by one or the other. I would rather Peachtree City be in control.

There isn't a thing republican in your comment. Don't you know that people similar to our mayor find nothing wrong with outright lying when it is necessary for their progress or their friends progress----more Lenox. More BP clogged oil lines. Us dumb, great unwashed, should not have much, if any, say in management of the money. Glory, glory to the 21st century capitalism. Go to church Sunday. Family Values, and all that. The terrorists, or is it Muslims, are taking us down, economy wise. Bring back the draft--no exceptions for rich people or cripples, send five million men (not women) and equipment to middle east and run the place, prepare for the Chinese and Russians there not here.

A few of us understood that in the election. But the Anyone But Brown crowd didn't care to see it.

Now we see some of them crying about it.

I told you guys so and you scoffed.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Steve Brown had a great passion for PTC and worked tirelessly for our quality of life. Harold Logsdon was not faithful on his financial management promises and has used sewer to put our entire planned city at risk. His whole aim seems to be to help his friends. Steve Brown cared about his community. All Harold cares about is a chance to throw back a few cold ones. Steve is dearly missed.

His passion was his ego. Stay in Florida, Bob.

Adolf Hitler
Fidel Castro
Benito Mussolini
Cynthia McKinney
Steve Brown

What do they all have in common? None are in power right now!

Idontknow, your placing Steve Brown in the same list as Hitler, Castro, Mussolini and McKinney is childish, disrespectful and offensive. You can agree to disagree, but you went over the line on this one.

You, idontknow, act as if you are jealous of Steve Brown. A lot of us write about our differences, but your comments usually stem from some kind of inner hatred.

Although I didn't always agree with Brown's style, he obeyed the law and put up a good fight on behalf of a lot of citizens. He certainly didn't lie either.

I was recently introduced to the woman that owns the "sinking house" in the Peninsula subdivision. She claims the house is now fully restored and it would never have happened if Steve Brown hadn't come to her rescue. He helped a lot of senior citizens in town too.

You can disagree, that's fine, but what you did reveals your cruel nature. Your rude exaggeration was uncalled for.

Vote Republican

I agree with Spear Road Guy. "Idontknow" is a fairly typical, internet savvy but ignorant American. Perhaps he is the one who wore a tee shirt in public chatising Brown. Idontknow was one of the childish Brown bashers who blog continuously with personal attacks on Steve Brown. Such was similar of Mr. Logsdon who would not publicly debate but would private "whisper campaign" with comments about Steve Brown and his family. (Agreed ---- Brown needed to go. Yes, Spear Guy, he did many good things, was bright and informed. But he was never interested in building a consensus and, similarly, this is why Dunn and Wells are out.) People like Idontknow usually contribute nothing to any adult conversation.

I will take issue with your signature "Vote Republican", Spear Guy, which has become a meaningless statement, there being no difference between the parties. Example---- Sonny Taylor and Mark Perdue. Example of the GOP being as bad as the Dems--- our local roads. Why are we praising our GOP US Senator for giving us millions of federal tax dollars for a local road? Aren't we propagating the tax and spend mentality that lead us to be $3 trillion in debt to China ? It appears that you supported Rep. Westmoreland who on the one hand holds press conferences about how he can vote against other state's pork projects, but quietly funnels millions here for strictly local concerns (i.e,, TDK). The Founding Fathers used federal tax dollars for strictly national projects.

Saying "Vote Republican" has as much meaning as saying "Eat Mocha Chip Ice Cream; Don't eat Vanilla".

Which means: It is worth the sacrifice to always vote republican for the sake of the party, no matter who is running. Even if the Pope is a democrat and Osama was the republican---vote republican! They do this routinely, as do the democrats, sometimes (Cynthia for instance). Yellow dogism isn't dead.

Good point...Hence the similarity of Mark Perdue and Sonny Taylor. We deserve it--- how can politicians get ethics fines and still be embraced by the voters? Example: Perdue. Doppler's Radar is right on picking up on the Yellow Dogs, many of whom are sitting quite comfortably at the courthouse and Stonewall.

Even deleting Brown from that list it is still low to say.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

...are other's neuroses.

The "passion" argument is extremely weak in my opinion. I don't believe that anyone who runs for municipal office doesn't have some passion for what they do. I also believe they have a mental defect similar to ice hockey goaltenders and skydivers - why would you purposely and willingly subject yourself to such abuses?

With what you said here. Fully.

Some want to be petty dictators, as well.

But, I won't cross the line into comparing them to ones who who were cold blooded murderers.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

BY far the better choice. He's not trying to cram down commercial zoning in the center of town on us, as in the Lutheran Church sellout to Walgreens. I wonder just what Brown got for his vote? The ONLY vote for it, I might add.

Folks need to wise up about the Westside property owned by Wieland, either we (PTC) annex it or Tyrone will.

PTC Guy is right. McDonoughDawg's issue is a single drugstore at a major intersection across the street from a large shopping center - get real.

PTC Guy hit it dead on when he said if you want to see major damage look a Logsdon's major sewer expansion plans in both Fayette and Coweta. He wants to put around 1,300 homes on the westside too. It's going to be another tax increase to add public services for 1,300 homes. Brown favored a much lower density annexation plan and actually held public workshops for citizen input.

Logsdon and his crew just sat there and watched CSX put the auxiliary track next to Centennial and mysteriously waited to complain to CSX until they had finished the project - what a joke.

The illegal debt issue speaks for itself. Even the authority members admitted they did the wrong thing. Why should we be punished financially for their bad deeds? And don't tell me those loans built the tennis center because that's a lie.

The Group VI annexation deal, which Logsdon will definitely vote for, stinks bad. By starting the project in the county, they'll get away with not obeying our planning regulations. Does your quality planning ethic only apply to church sites?

I really don't like the fact that he took prayer out of the council meetings either. Really, what does that act tell you?

McDonoughDawg you're a nice guy, but on this one, you can't see the forest for the trees.

Vote Republican

The CSX "rail siding" issue came up during the Brown administration. Quite out of character for him, there were no special called meetings, press releases to warn the public (call your congressman!) or anything of that nature.

Maybe Mayor Brown and staff realized they couldn't beat the feds anyway. But it's not like him to give up a good fight of that magnitude.

It is my understanding that the city was initially notified about the rail siding three years ago or more.

Would love to hear from some folks in that neck of the woods to see how the rail siding is affecting them (or not).

We can always count on you to succinctly squelch those who surreptitiously spout such slanderous sewage on these cybersites.

Sorry, my alliteration button was stuck.

As far as the Group VI issue on the Southside, it's not comparable to the Church issue. This hasn't even been voted on yet. So who knows what they will do.

As to the RR track, I'm quite sure they had ZERO control over this. I grew up in Morrow in the 70's and there was constant complaining from Morrow City Council re the trains stopping/parking in town. The FEDS control it, and could care less what a City thinks.

Re the Westside and Seasons annexing etc., I have been a Seasons Development in Cherokee County, it's quality for sure. I don't even think the density has been totally decided on this either. So let's see what happens.

As far as Prayer, I will grate on a few here, but I pray at home in my time, I see no place for it in Govt.

Is Logsdon perfect? nobody is. But like the poster below said, nobody has been berated, as far as I know at a Council meeting (Rast by Brown) and the local paper has had a little more room for others to comment, due to not having to run weekly diatribes from Brown. There was a reason Brown got drilled in the elections.

At least it appears that way with this unbelieveable wacky litany by the Spear Road Guy.

You obviously haven't been to many council meetings, as there is still prayer at meetings.

Logsdon and his crew just sat there and watched CSX put the auxiliary track next to Centennial...oh yeah, that was being planned before Logsdon was mayor.

He wants to put around 1,300 homes on the westside too. It's going to be another tax increase to add public services for 1,300 homes. Brown favored a much lower density annexation plan and actually held public workshops for citizen input. Well, let's get Steve back today! Somebody call Fox 5! We have citizen input twice a month - it's called a COUNCIL MEETING. You may want to attend those instead of using the pulpit of the blogosphere to continually and unintelligently bash anyone who doesn't think just like you.

You seem to believe that the Mayor has an amazing power over the other four councilmembers. Please remember that the MAJORITY of council votes things in. Why don't you take the time to evaluate each member of Council individually like you do the Mayor. When it comes to voting things in and out, they're all equals.

Idontknow and Pandora think that Mayor Logsdon has had a banner year. We have to agree to disagree. He boldly lied about his intentions on taxes. He clearly said that he would make the budget cuts to prevent a tax increase.

Had it not been for a bunch of red hot senior citizens, that lie would have stuck too. I'm not so sure he didn't pull the wool over the eyes of the seniors. They had a lot more than $10,000 allocated for the expansion project design when he pulled the plug on it.

The mayor tried hard to run the sewer in Coweta. He came up with every excuse in the book. Thank God the other councilmen didn't buy it. The Group VI annexation is a joke and I'll guarantee you the mayor will vote for it. He's the developers' boy.

If you look at the budget on the website, you'll see that they're taking funds out of the reserves to minimize the tax increase.

Idontknow, how are we going to pay for the public services for those 1,300 new homes on the westside? The additional firefighters in the budget were to help cover current needs.

Why didn't the mayor formally complain to CSX before they were almost finished with the auxilliary rail? Was he asleep at the wheel or what?

Where's the $1 million going to come from to pay for the authority boys bad deeds?

Idontknow made a lot of comments but didn't say much. Your tax argument (posted below) was pretty weak!!!

Vote Republican

How are we going to pay for the public services for those 1300 new homes on the westside? Well, we'll start with impact fees that will help fund the equipment required. If we say that each home pays taxes, and the PTC millage rate is 5.83 (I think, I'm sure I'm wrong). If 1 mill is about $80 on that magic $200,000 home that no one owns, that would be $104,000 per year paid for taxes. Let's say that public safety gets about 1/3 of that, so they would get $34,000 per year in property taxes alone. We'd also get a partial share of the county taxes, as well as other parts of sales taxes, etc. So let's just say that the total revenue stream for public safety we get from these 1300 homes is about $50,000 per year, all told (and I'm sure someone could help me check my math).

$50,000 a year sure does help pay for some of the public safety to cover that 700 acres, or 1 square mile. Peachtree City has 24 square miles. I don't think we're going to be needing to open a police precinct in the west village. I think that the Fire Department is actually planning a fifth fire station that would probably be in the West Village area, so that would probably be coming regardless of the annexation.

And if the land isn't annexed, do you honestly believe that it won't ever be developed? If Peachtree City is the closest jurisdiction in terms of police and fire to this "new" area, guess who would have to come help when Grandma Smith has a heart attack? Call Fairburn 911 and they can tell you who would have to come when Fayette County EMS couldn't get there fast enough. And we'd still have to "pay for those public services" without the benefit of any property tax revenue.

I know that this analysis is simplistic and doesn't take traffic, etc. in effect, but I think that a squirrel would understand that it makes more sense for PTC to annex the property than for it to be developed outside the City.

Oh, and once property is annexed, it takes about 2-3 years before it's developed and ready for those public services like Public Works, etc. Look at Centennial's development - it's been building now for several years.

I still love the "Harold lied" arguments and the "Harold's in the developers' back pocket" arguments....please quote me exactly where Harold Logsdon said he would guarantee taxes would be cut. Please tell me specifically where Harold Logsdon received campagin contributions from "big development". Don't make me dig back through the archives where I listed who financially supported Harold Logsdon in the election and who financially supported Steve Brown. Or, more importantly, how many people didn't support old Steve-O.

All this so you whiners don't have to pay $20 extra for a few public safety employees? Again, taxes are nowhere near as bad in PTC as they are in other parts of metro Atlanta. You people want to have your cake, eat it and complain about how the chef cooked it!

Here's a tip - grow up and understand how the world works - things cost money. Truly attempt to understand a government budget, not just the provocative headlines that Cal spins in this fishrag.

But I guess I'm just saying a lot without any substance....pot, meet kettle. Oh Mr. Spear Road Guy - here's your challenge: support any of your arguments with substantiated, quoted facts. I can do it, can you?

***And if the land isn't annexed, do you honestly believe that it won't ever be developed? If Peachtree City is the closest jurisdiction in terms of police and fire to this "new" area, guess who would have to come help when Grandma Smith has a heart attack?***

If PTC does not annex the land, PTC emergency services will not be servicing the area, just as they do not now. PTC police and fire do not serve outside PTC limits, period.

You may wish to call Peachtree City's fire department at 770-631-2526 and ask for the fire chief or assistant fire chief. Ask them about "mutual aid".

After you call there, call the Police Department at 770-487-8866 and ask for the Police chief. Ask him how his agency arrests and works with agencies statewide.

This is one I can absolutely, positively say you are incorrect on. Please verify your statements with facts; you may wish to come back and retract that statement.

Love your Get Fuzzy pic, though....

Mr. idontknow, you are incorrect on the public safety response to the westside land if not annexed and left in the unincorporated county.

You are correct that we do have a "mutual aid" agreement with the county, and several other jurisdictions for that matter. However, what you are referring to is "automatic aid", under which, we would respond to out of jurisdiction calls through the 911 service. We do not have automatic aid agreements, Greg Dunn and Peter Pfeifer want us to, but we do not have any.

The only time we respond to a county fire/EMS situation is if they have no available units to respond (all out on calls), even then the county fire department contacts us directly. Mutual aid situations happen, but it is rare.

I cannot tell you how many people get angry with Peachtree City because we do not respond to emergency calls at the State Route 54-E Publix Shopping Center. County Fire and the Sheriff responds at that location. They would be responsible for the westside acreage too if left in the unincorporated county. There is no difference between the Publix site and the westside.

As for the police, generally we get involved with out of jurisdictions incidents when they involve our city. For example, we have had several out of city high speed chases that have made their way to Peachtree City. They notify us and then we participate when it arrives in our jurisdiction. Other times we might have a crime suspect from another county who is residing in our city, or the other way around and we go find our suspect in another jurisdiction, stuff like that (detective work, not uniform patrol).

I do not know of any instances where our police would conduct uniform patrol (non-detective work) or respond to 911 outside our jurisdiction. There are "turf" issues with law enforcement.

That should give you a clearer understanding of "mutual" vs "automatic" response.

Steve Brown

Mutual aid is rare? Gee, then why is the fire department appear upset with the amount of times that they have to leave the City to "assist" the County?

The GA54 / Publix situation is not an accurate comparison, as the County never has to drive through the City to get to Peachtree East.

To get someone to this "undeveloped land", they might be coming through PTC, especially if the McDuff extension doesn't happen.

My point was to correct a posting that said PTC never did anything outside its borders, which I think you'll agree is "incorrect"

Obfuscate, like I said. Instead of letting that be, you took a swipe at it, surmising I was assuming automatic aid. I wasn't; I was going off of how things go today, if the County needed help, they'd call us. Good try, though....

idontknow, Fayette County Fire would just come south on Highway 74 from Tyrone (their nearest station)to get to the westside. The comparison with the 54-E Publix is very accurate. The response distances and times are close.

I not trying to make you defensive on this issue. I have the benefit of being involved in some studies related to fire service capacity in the county and city.

The sad part about EMS is that the county taxes all Peachtree City citizens for EMS but does not provide the service in the city. In fairness, they provide mutual aid once in a blue moon. We are not taxed from the county for fire, there are established fire districts for county fire. So when the county rolls their millage back, they ought to send us a thank you note because we are funding their services to some extent.

Thanks,
Steve Brown

...exactly what Steve Brown explained. In my job, I know exactly where the PTC police and fire do and don't go, and when. And I am telling you that if there is a car accident with injuries, or a fire, on the west side of the city but outside the city limits, it is the county's responsibility to respond, not PTC's. A PTC ambulance will not go, unless all county ambulances are unavailable and a specific request is made (very rare). A PTC police officer may go, but only until a deputy sheriff can get there. A PTC police officer is not at all obligated to go. And yes, the county drives through the city to get to the westside.
My facts are straight. If the westside is not annexed, there will be no increased need/cost to PTC police or fire. If it is, then of course there will be.

Sounds like the county needs to use some of the "double tax" money they have been getting from us and build themselves a fire station. They might want to throw in a precinct for the sheriff's dept. and hire more deputies to staff it too.

Dawg, you were a one note voter. That Church issue.

Logsdon lied about taxes, and I said when he was running he was lying.

He jumped on the Seasons, building here, without getting all the infrastructures ducks in a row first, and before a single meeting was held for public or other input.

He wanted to extend sewage out of the county.

He assumed charge of the Police without a legal vote, initially. And assuming at all is a sign or power and ego, not good manangement, when he is now the one writing recommendations and evaluations he will be submitting to himself.

He has pushed to assume an illegal debt.

He has stalled the Stormwater Utility, but I see things being charged to it, which I do believer is illegal to do, since it is a Utility, not Public Works. And I told you he would in the election.

He is backed by the Good Ole Boys, which translates to developers and power brokers.

There was some shady maneuvering on the TDK by-pass, which sure looked political to me. They did not back down on their pricing out of kindness.

All of this, and more, when only in office 7 months.

And you call THAT the better man?

And on the Westside, Brown wanted to annex it, which is the right choice.

Your one note thoughts about the church and Wal Greens issue does not make Logsdon the better man.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy, I agreed with you on the County elections, and I agree with you on not converting industrial property to retail, but your constant harping on Logsdon and wistful remembrances of Brown are wearing me out.

I was an “anyone but Brown” voter, and am still immensely grateful that the majority of voters last November and December agreed. If for no other reason than we haven’t seen Logsdon on TV constantly, or had to read any self-serving, Pfeifer-like letters to the editor. Seven and a half months into his term, we haven’t lost valuable, experienced employees. We haven’t had half-baked moratoria enacted, been sued, and LOST the lawsuit.

And some of the things you accuse him of – I don’t think anything on stormwater has even come up – it’s a done deal. If you think they’re using funds inappropriately, why don’t you investigate? This is government - nothing moves fast.

Sewer to Coweta? Didn’t happen.

Annexation? Hasn’t happened yet, and I’ll wager the numbers come way down. I think you and I agree that the West Village is needed, but Council told the developers to lower their numbers. We’ll see if they listened. The 74 South and Publix requests make no sense to me, but Council voted unanimously to look at the issues. Brown always had his mind made up, and spent all his considerable energies promoting his opinion and shoving it down the throats of those who dared to disagree.

Taxes – yes, they’re up, but for Public Safety, which everyone is screaming for right now. And Logsdon’s still working on the double taxation issue with the County in a much more civil manner than Brown did (although Dunn & Co. still haven’t seen fit to address the issues).

Bottom line - I, I, I, me, me, me Brown LOST. I don't always agree with Logsdon, but I'm willing to give him a full year before I start the Brown-style mudslinging you seem to miss.

...but your constant harping on Logsdon and wistful remembrances of Brown are wearing me out.
You have never heard me having wistful remembrances of Brown. That statement, alone, says you are not even half aware of all I have said.

Brown was not a good mayor. But at least he was far more open and honest than Logsdon.

Who was not for paying an illegal debt? And who has been wanting to assume it, and why.

When you can answer those questions maybe your tune will change.

I was an “anyone but Brown” voter, and am still immensely grateful that the majority of voters last November and December agreed.

And I remember a few of your rants and arguments against Brown. All emotion, not issue, oriented.

A lot like Dawg and his single point obsession.

If for no other reason than we haven’t seen Logsdon on TV constantly, or had to read any self-serving, Pfeifer-like letters to the editor.

Which I would much rather deal with than Logsdon's wanting us to assum millions on a single debt, put us in a long term sling by selling our sewage capacity out of county and not getting the facts and realities together before going to bat for something like The Seasons.

Seven and a half months into his term, we haven’t lost valuable, experienced employees. We haven’t had half-baked moratoria enacted, been sued, and LOST the lawsuit.

No, we just have a clown who wants to pay for things by taking away employee benefits and money. Yea, real improvement there. I am so impressed.

Ad exactly which lawsuit are you talking about?

And some of the things you accuse him of – I don’t think anything on stormwater has even come up – it’s a done deal.

It is not a done deal. It does not exist. Our money has been collected but it has not been established yet. Tell me ONE Stormwater Utility employee.

You cannot. There are none.

If you think they’re using funds inappropriately, why don’t you investigate? This is government - nothing moves fast.

Let me see. Stormwater money cannot be spent by anyone but the Utility. It cannot be used by Public Works. It must be used by the Utility.

Now, if you have read the news you see things charged to the Utility for getting repairs done.

How can a Utility repair anything that is not staffed? You care to answer that one?

Sewer to Coweta? Didn’t happen.

Not because Logsdon did not try. But because the Council got deluged with complaints.

Annexation? Hasn’t happened yet, and I’ll wager the numbers come way down. I think you and I agree that the West Village is needed, but Council told the developers to lower their numbers.

We agree on it needs to be annexed. But Logdson was gung ho on The Seasons, remember? Without having any infrastructure ironed out fist.

Bad management.

We’ll see if they listened. The 74 South and Publix requests make no sense to me, but Council voted unanimously to look at the issues.

They make good sense to me.

Brown always had his mind made up, and spent all his considerable energies promoting his opinion and shoving it down the throats of those who dared to disagree.

Wrong. I personally know that Brown went out to homeowners, associations, and such, to meet with, collect opinions and data and to take it back with him.

Logsdon went to view a Seasons, liked it and that was enough for him. Details and infrastructure didn't matter. He wanted it.

Taxes – yes, they’re up, but for Public Safety, which everyone is screaming for right now.

But Logsdon lied. He said he was going to decrease them.

And Logsdon’s still working on the double taxation issue with the County in a much more civil manner than Brown did (although Dunn & Co. still haven’t seen fit to address the issues).

Garbage. They had a big disagreement and Lodgson came away very mad and critical of Dunn and company.

Maxwell said he didn't see justification for double taxing. So that is when something will happen, and not by Lodgson's work.

Bottom line - I, I, I, me, me, me Brown LOST. I don't always agree with Logsdon, but I'm willing to give him a full year before I start the Brown-style mudslinging you seem to miss.

I didn't like stuff Brown did. And I sure don't like what Logsdon is doing.

But Brown's errors were a lot less costly than what Logsdon want do are.

And Brown was not a King in the Castle telling the peasants what they needed to know after he decided.

If you have not noticed, there is a division in the Council now. Often Lodgson versus the other 4.

Thankfully, they are holding him in check on many things.

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy,

Your “But at least he was far more open and honest than Logsdon” is wistful. Brown refused to let people who disagreed with him speak at meetings (PTC mayor cuts off public comment during meeting – 2/27/02 Citizen).

Brown dealt with the other Councilmembers in secret, and left out ones who might disagree (McMenamin was left out of the pre-meeting discussion between council members partly because her daughter is an attorney in the same firm that employs Lindsey. "Point blank, I didn't want her to sabotage my research efforts," Brown said – 5/22/02 Citizen).

The Tennis Center debt – this has never been ruled on by a judge. I personally believe the money was used to enhance (not build) a city-owned facility, and should be repaid. We had a mechanism to do so without using citizen tax dollars (Hotel/Motel to the dev. authority) until Brown and Tennant asked for a revised legal opinion from their new attorney, and Brown forced the creation of the Tourism Association (who used it for a visitors center that was un-visitable for a year during the highway construction). You’ll not convince me otherwise, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Taking away employee benefits and money – I think employees get a COLA and other increases. He and Council reduced the COLA, an increase, by half, but I believe they still get other raises – the payroll budget still went up in departments that didn’t get new employees by more than one or two percent. Do you know many employees who can expect 5-6% raises every year? And the dollar amounts for insurance payments are small, much smaller than most corporate employees pay in.

Lawsuit – Development Moratorium (The moratorium was overturned after a lawsuit filed by the Home Builders Association of Midwest Georgia – 2/20/02 Citizen).

Stormwater Utility employee – I believe there is an accounting person hired for Stormwater – I talked to her when I had questions about my bill. And the manager job is still posted – have you applied?

Stormwater money cannot be spent by anyone but the Utility. It cannot be used by Public Works. It must be used by the Utility. – Can you give your source for this?

Annexation density – we’ll see. East side and south side requests – sorry, I thought you were the one who posted that the Group VI request could meet our development requirements. I don’t see why we should add competition to our existing stores – I don’t want empty buildings – and they can’t comply.

Brown’s opinions – yes, he met with homeowners to get ideas and win friends, and to influence them. See McDonough Dawg’s comment about Brown’s badgering of the City Planner to change his professional opinion, which conflicted with Brown’s. This happened frequently.

Logsdon lied? – or was wrong. Personally, I only ever had him tell me he’d work to reduce the tax burden. If that means reducing my county taxes, bringing in more industries, etc., I’m ok with that – but it takes time.

But Brown's errors were a lot less costly – if you research, I think you’ll find that to be incorrect. And at least we haven’t had to pay for Logsdon’s ethics complaint attorney.

If I overstated your enthusiasm for Brown, I apologize. Bottom line, it really depends on one's priorities - mine are for the long-term good, and good reputation, of this city. I suspect yours are, too, but we obviously disagree on how to get (back) there.

PTC Guy,

Your “But at least he was far more open and honest than Logsdon” is wistful. Brown refused to let people who disagreed with him speak at meetings (PTC mayor cuts off public comment during meeting – 2/27/02 Citizen).

And at the meeting I was at Lodgson did not open the floor to any discussion on 90% of the issues. And time capped when he did.

Brown dealt with the other Councilmembers in secret, and left out ones who might disagree (McMenamin was left out of the pre-meeting discussion between council members partly because her daughter is an attorney in the same firm that employs Lindsey. "Point blank, I didn't want her to sabotage my research efforts," Brown said – 5/22/02 Citizen).

Yep. A problem. Does not change the fact Logsdon does not meet with citizend and announces his decisions before meeting with anyone.

The Tennis Center debt – this has never been ruled on by a judge.

Logsdon said he wanted to assume the debt in campaign and after elected.

I personally believe the money was used to enhance (not build) a city-owned facility, and should be repaid. We had a mechanism to do so without using citizen tax dollars (Hotel/Motel to the dev. authority) until Brown and Tennant asked for a revised legal opinion from their new attorney, and Brown forced the creation of the Tourism Association (who used it for a visitors center that was un-visitable for a year during the highway construction). You’ll not convince me otherwise, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Wow! What spin! Talk to me again when you get your history straight.

Taking away employee benefits and money – I think employees get a COLA and other increases. He and Council reduced the COLA, an increase, by half, but I believe they still get other raises – the payroll budget still went up in departments that didn’t get new employees by more than one or two percent. Do you know many employees who can expect 5-6% raises every year? And the dollar amounts for insurance payments are small, much smaller than most corporate employees pay in.

Check again. If you don't consider hiking insurance contritubions significantly a pay cut, then I have no hope for you.

And I believe some employees got zero raises.

Lawsuit – Development Moratorium (The moratorium was overturned after a lawsuit filed by the Home Builders Association of Midwest Georgia – 2/20/02 Citizen).

Yea. He was trying to stop development. Target, I believe.

Stormwater Utility employee – I believe there is an accounting person hired for Stormwater – I talked to her when I had questions about my bill. And the manager job is still posted – have you applied?

The bill collector. No get the job done people. The get your money person only.

There have been a number of applications. They have labeled them all unqualified.

$50,000 is sneeze money for the list of qualifications they want. There aree people out there, without a degree, than can do that job.

What they want is pulling double, at least, that offer.

Did I apply? I am not qualified per there standards. No degree of the right pedigree.

Stormwater money cannot be spent by anyone but the Utility. It cannot be used by Public Works. It must be used by the Utility. – Can you give your source for this?

Look it up yourself. It is contained in both the State and Federal Stormwater Law and Guidelines.

I am 80% sure they are breaking the law.

Annexation density – we’ll see. East side and south side requests – sorry, I thought you were the one who posted that the Group VI request could meet our development requirements. I don’t see why we should add competition to our existing stores – I don’t want empty buildings – and they can’t comply.

Nope. Not me.

Brown’s opinions – yes, he met with homeowners to get ideas and win friends, and to influence them. See McDonough Dawg’s comment about Brown’s badgering of the City Planner to change his professional opinion, which conflicted with Brown’s. This happened frequently.

Nope. I will look at my meeting with him where my input showed up in engineering plans and work already done.

Logsdon lied? – or was wrong. Personally, I only ever had him tell me he’d work to reduce the tax burden. If that means reducing my county taxes, bringing in more industries, etc., I’m ok with that – but it takes time.

He said he would do it. And claiming to be so good at budgets and such, he should have known better.

Or maybe he lied about how good he is?

But Brown's errors were a lot less costly – if you research, I think you’ll find that to be incorrect. And at least we haven’t had to pay for Logsdon’s ethics complaint attorney.

Not yet.

But it is not for his lack of trying to waste our money.

If I overstated your enthusiasm for Brown, I apologize.

We only have what we had at the election to compare. Nothing more.

Bottom line, it really depends on one's priorities - mine are for the long-term good, and good reputation, of this city. I suspect yours are, too, but we obviously disagree on how to get (back) there.

Agree.

Assuming a $2 mil debt is not good. Or sewage out of county. Or restraining the implimenation of Stormwater when it just means there will be more costly repairs required.

Logsdon is scaring a lot of people. That is not good.

And the developers are now swarming all over us like in the good ole days of Lenox and before. Really not good.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Bolding bad...

It's making my overly insightful commentary look too blurry on my little screen!

Check your work on the employee raises, too. Folks who don't get a raise don't get them because of their performance. All employees are getting a 1% COLA. The health insurance is 25% increase, meaning someone who pays $12 per check now pays $15 per check. If they make $20,000 per year, 1% COLA is $20,200. The insurance increase of $72 per year means that they still get more than they did last year. If their performance is above "needs improvement", they get at least 1% more, but to an additional 4.5%

THAT is reality. Griping about $100.

It was all in the meeting agendas...

I just rechecked it and added a close bold at the top. It fixed some of the junk.

It is coming from someone who posted prior. But that could be anywhere in the whole topic since the html is passed by DB order and not visual post order.

I will insert another at the top of my post and see if closes some more.

But it ain't from me.

ADD: To late. My edit function time out. Added 2 to the top of this one. Someone is posting bold and not closing them!

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Had to look at this one before I left, wow. There is a lot of pent up animosity here. All your references were from 2002. I applaud you for holding on to them so long. Your opinions on the references were a bit slanted but you are entitled to your opinion.

By the way, there was no ethics attorney to pay for, probably why you do not have a 2002 newspaper clipping for that one. The Tahoe decision from the US Supreme Court was delivered months after Judge English's decision on the moratorium. It left Judge English's decision outside the Constitutional box. We later put a moratorium on sign application in order to make adjustments - no lawsuits.

Your wrong on the COLA issue. Several city employees have complained to me about it.

Lastly, no one can show where those Peachtree National Bank loan dollars went, I have seen what little records they kept. Both the funding method and the activity was illegal.

Do you have any clipping after 2002? I would love to discuss those also.

Many thanks,
Steve Brown

There are many who have bitten into the false claims on the Tennis Center.

It is no secret a good number of city employees are angry and considering looking for new jobs. I have heard that from too many people.

I went through some headaches, but posted about the lost records and such during the election. And how the PCDC conducted itself and refulsed to listen to several members of Council.

I know there will be some claiming other is true.
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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Defined as "To make so confused or opaque as to be difficult to perceive or understand".

Personified as Steve Brown of Peachtree City.

Several city employees have complained to me about [the COLA cuts]. Heck, if I was "losing" a raise that I think I have some sort of entitlement to, I'd gripe to whomever would listen.

Unfortunately, no one holds a gun to anyone's head to work anywhere. It's an at will state - you could be fired tomorrow for no reason. There aren't unions in PTC government, are there?

I am not sure what idontknow found confusing about the statement in his post. It was merely stating the city employees have told me that the city is cutting back on their compensation.

Actually, there have been a few fire fighters that have made attempts at a union. However, the main advocate of the union left this year and went to work for the City of Fairburn.

Steve Brown

Mr. Brown:

Unfortunately, no one is guaranteed a raise. No City employee's salary has been reduced. Their ability to acheive the same maximum percentage raise in salary has been reduced. Instead of being able to get a 7% annual raise (and wouldn't most of you want that), it now tops out at 5.5%.

And health insurance costs, which are, believe it or not, an OPTIONAL benefit, are increasing between $72 (for single) to $100 (for family) PER YEAR per employee.

Sorry, but I assert that this is much ado about not that much. If that $100 is "killing" folks when they are getting raises (yes, they still are getting raises, just not as much as they were), I think they should consider their overall priorities.

idontknow, again, I am not trying to make you defensive. I never said city employees could not get a raise, albeit a smaller one.

The insurance costs are a great concern for some of the employees on the lower end of pay scale: Public Works and Recreation positions especially. The Directors and Chiefs will be fine.

The pension changes are an issue too.

The council needs to review things annually and track their costs and do the best they can.

Thanks,
Steve Brown

No matter who is Mayor. You would think Logsdon belongs in jail the way they talk about him.

I could not have said it better myself. Services are not free. Everyone sceaming quality of life but they dont want to pay for it. Just like the story of the red hen. No one wanted to help her bake the bread but everyone wants to eat it....
The fire chief and police chief are asking for more people to ensure the quality of life standard. DO NOT blame logsdon for all a sudden adding people. The chiefs have been asking for years and they kept getting denied. Thank you Mayor and Council members for approving positions for public safety.

You are assuming that all of the current expenditures are efficient and necessary. They never are. When you get the town employees to work as hard as a UPS delivery person, then you will see efficiency. We have got to stop using the tax dole as job supplier! Buy a few horses instead of so many cars.

THe reason for the attractiveness of PTC is because the city's employee bust their tails and deliever excellent customer service. You have no first hand knowledge of how efficent the city operates. ONE man on a fire engine has become clearly unsafe and no longer efficent for the call volume we have, so adding another firefighter to the truck ensures that our service delivery doesnt suffer. More importantly the very services you may depend on one day requires you to fund and staff it appropriately. LETS see you sell your car and get a horse. I dont think going to horse drawn fire engines is what you want. IF so I am for it.

No one wants one person on a fire engine. Put two. Reduce the stations and hire some more volunteers. I know efficiency (work all of the time, and productively) I did efficiency studies for many years.

In a city the size of PTC, efficiency is NOT relying on volunteers, with varying levels of competency and ability. As a PTC citizen, I am appalled that we still rely on volunteers as much as we do, and that we pay our firefighters (and police officers) as little as we do. I won't complain about increased taxes if I know that we're going to pay them more and have more of them (both fire and police).
Honestly, though, I don't think it will change until the right person's house burns.

Well put!!!

I'd love some concrete examples of what you mean. I've looked at the budget - have you?

"When you get the town employees to work as hard as a UPS delivery person,"

How long have you lived in PTC? Or do you even live here? If you've been here more than 3 years, I would think you would know what the CITY (Tyrone's a town, buddy) employees do and how they actually do a lot given their complement.

Do you think the City has a bunch of employees sitting around doing nothing?