For solutions that you recommend. We've established that Sadam is out of power (Stated goal of the US and others). We've established that you do not wish he was still in power ( or else you would have said so below). At this point, I'll ask once more, what do you recommend we do now?

If you have no responses, you're not helping at this point. I greatly appreciate your service to this Country, I will say that undounbtedly.

After five years, to hell with the leader!

Now, I'm just an old ex-grunt, but wouldn't it be C Battery? And isn't it 13F not an 11 series which is infantry?

1/19FA is a training unit at Ft. Sill isn't it?

Have you been in Iraq since 2004? 31U-Signal Support Systems Specialist (Converts to MOS 25U in Oct 04)

Why do I think you are making this stuff up. If I am wrong I apologize. I wouldn't want to be accused of Swift boating anyone.

Funny how service is only an issue for Conservatives. I guess all the anti war politicians are vets.

I did boot camp in 1991, Honorably discharged in 2006. Check your records, OSUT 11F at Ft. Sill, 31U in 1993 at Ft. Gordon, and yes it is a training unit! I'll see if I can get someone more computer literate to post a copy of that old 214 for me!

Sorry but Marines go to boot camp and soldiers go to Basic Training.

Can't argue with you there but we still call it boot camp, I actually had a platoon leader that was a former Marine, I still have no idea what was coming out of his mouth when he would call Cadence! My intentions weren't meant to be taken disrespectfully but I deal with NEOCONS each and everyday and I had to Vent!

Major,

I understand that you are very supportive of troops. But do you really believe that there are a (large even?) number of other American not caring about our soldiers lives just because they happen to be non-Ditto Heads?
Certainly you can remember the hell many of our Vietnam vets had to live through after returning home. Are you comparing their experiences with what the returning soldiers are now going through - or would be going through if we had a "liberal" government? I hope not.
In fact, the argument could be made that the Iraq war opponents probably care more about the soildiers lives; they wouldn't have sent them to Iraq in the first place.

You point out that our president has helped ensure that we haven't been struck again since 9/11. You say further that it's possibly because the enemy is busy in Iraq.
However, the 9/11 attacks took only 12 people, some trainers, and a bunch of cash to perform. Was any link ever proven between 9/11 and Iraq? Correct me if you think I'm wrong but I believe not.
Are we safer now? Possibly, but not because we went to Iraq. If the president has made us safer, it has been his Homeland Security strategy, not going to war and killing more people. The sad thing here is that we even have to ask if we are safer now. I remember a time when that was a silly question.
But if we are safer now then pre-9/11, you believe there was no other way to accomplish this safety than to allow almost the same number of our soldiers die in Iraq as the number of people that died on New York ?

The public was told that the reason for the second war in Iraq was that there were masses of WMDs, and this has so far been proven incorrect. If there were other valid reasons, they should have been part of the package pre-war.

I will refrain from attacking anyone personally on grounds of their political or religous beliefs, and I find it deplorable that The United States has become so divided that it seems to be the republicans against everyone else. Apparently lib-bashing has become a national sport in some circles.

Major, lots of libs have been wrong, lots of non-libs have been wrong. To sum up the worlds problems by nailing it to one group of people seems escapist to me.
Instead of pointing fingers at other people, why don't we support ideas? Some ideas are better than others, some are worse. Some people have more better ideas. What would be so wrong with us as a country pulling together and making decisions based not on whether they came from "libs" or "non-libs", but whether they are appropriate for accomplishing the goal as efficiently as possible?

Yep, war IS hell. So how about we avoid it as much we possibly can?

ExExPatriot,

I will have a rational discussion of the arguements with an honest and intelligent person any day of the week. We may not agree or change each other's opinion, but in the end we both pray that we win against our enemies.

What I cannot stand is a hate filled ignorant attack on our President in a time of war. Look at the original post here and tell me it seems to be the Republicans against everyone else. I haven't seen such viscious attacks against a President in my lifetime, Smirking chimp, shrub, stupid etc.

As far as war opponents caring more for the troops, explain Murtha convicting Marines without any evidence, Kerry stating soldiers were terrorizing Iraqi women and children, Durden's comparing our troops to Stalin and Pol Pot? Real nice support!

Can anyone disagree that establishing a democracy right on the border of Iran would not help American interests in a critically important part of the world?

Can anyone dispute that abandoning a fledgling democracy that has cost the lives of 3,000 Americans would be a repeat of our abandoning Vietnam? 52,000 dead Americans and Millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians slaughtered! If we withdraw now, Iran and the Sunni minority ethnically cleanse shites and kurds. As a student of history, you must know that Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia
have taught our enemies that with enough blood the weaker US politicians will back down.

I am not a ditto head, but don't ask the Gold Star mothers (minus Cindy Sheehan) to have given their sons for a failure! We must succeed or my children will be fighting this war.

Major,

Glad to see you appreciate rational discussions. Since my return and even while I was still overseas it seems rationality was often missing over here.

I agree that a hate filled attack against a standing president during war - against anyone at any time for that matter- is absolutly not appropriate when it deviates from the facts.
The original post said "...GRINNING, ARROGANT, SMIRKING BUSH SAYING: "BRING EM ON"? AND "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"? WHILE PRANCING AROUND AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER IN HIS RENTED HOLLYWOOD JUMP SUIT?"
I have to agree with the poster on this one. I find that Ws' grins often look like "arrogant smirking", and maybe he didn't get the suit from Hollywood but I believe he was wearing it for show. The writers embellishments showed the "hate filled", but could be construed as accurate. Or?
Most of the rest of the content of his post could be construed as being close to accurate in the same way.
I didn't find the attack more or less vicious as with other presidents (Remember Carter? he got some bad hits, or?) However, I found the "chimp" remark totally inaproppriate, and the tone of the entire post felt more like something I would have expected on a conservative radio program. I wish he had constrained his feelings a bit better.
I agree with you that this shows that it's not always conservatives attacking the libs, but I still find it the overwhelming majority.
I couldn't find "Smirking chimp" and "Shrub". Were they posted somewhere else?

I disagree with you on Murtha.
Murtha didn't and can't convict anyone; he's not a judge. He said "Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood." refering to the incident in Haditha.
A Staff Sgt. involved in the incident has sued Murtha for the comments, and has threatened to sue Rep. John Kline of Minnesota, republican, for similar comments if not retracted.
This case angered the Iraqis and has not been fully investigated although early US reports indicated that the events did not occur as initially reported by the soldiers or marines involved.
Regarding Kerrys and Durdens reports, were you directly involved in the house-to-house searches? Have you ever been in a [military even] situation where you wanted to insert a 7.62mm piece of metal through someones dura mater at about 1480 ft per second?
I have. I was able to control myself but I was also never in such serious fear for my life as these soldiers may be. Maybe I would have cracked if it had come down to it. How about you?
I imagine it is part of the human psyche to crack under such strain, and equally a part of the responsibility of the military leadership to prevent it.
On at least one occasion in a certain prison in Iraq, the leadership failed. How can you be so certain they haven't failed in lots of other cases?
Kerry and co were doing nothing but grandstanding and playing the political game and that sickens me. But to assume there could be no modicum of truth in what they say is - with your military experience - certainly not honest.
Do you really think one party or the other cares more or less about American lives? It's all politics - when it's gets votes, they care -like now. When it's not popular, they don't care - like Vietnam - without meaning to degrade individual members of either party.

I can't disagree that establishing a democracy on Irans border would be good for us. But I also believe that such an undertaking has an extremly remote chance for success.
Given democracy, they voted for islamic rule. Hmmmm.
I think much better would be a US friendly, stable government - with whom we can negotiate and slowly bring about change on the political side.
I think living out of the country for so long and seeing another side has given me a clearer perspective on this; just because an American style democracy worked for the US, that doesn't mean that other people want it, need it, or would even know what to do with it if they got it.

Abandoning Iraq now would of course be silly but I think even many libs agree on that one.

I would never ask for the lives of loved ones to be lost in vain. However, they have already been lost and no outcome of any war will bring them back.
I would say maybe they already have been lost in vain, and was there really no other way?
And especially, what is the best path forward to stem the flow of american blood without pandering to our enemies or creating new ones; a flow of blood which -as you so rightly pointed out- has become such an effective tool for our enemies
?

Actually, Saddam used chemical WMD on his own people, missile delivery system components were found plenty of other evidence to indicate they were there.

Either they are very buried in the sand or in Syria.

Hitting Iraq did a major disruption of terrorist training and funding. More than enough evidence has been found on that score.

The government is not going to tell you everything. It works against what they are doing in secret to make further progress.

I worked in intelligence during Nam. So I can tell you that in times like these do not think you are going to get straight and complete answers on issues such as these. Just is not going to happen.

When and how I served has made an iron clad belief, in me, libs and conservatives see the world extremely differently. And that conservatives value life more than libs.

I handled enough sensitive materials to tell you a lib politician will throw a soldiers life away far faster than a conservative. And at the same time be crying in public at the loss of life

-----------------------------
Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy, I Couldn't agree more with you about not expecting straight and complete answers - and I don't think it takes a war to make it that way - I think it probably almost never happens.

Certainly liberals and conservitaves see the world differently and see the path forward much differently. But to say that one group or the other values life more or less is just politics - you can't back that up with facts - and it certainly isn't "keeping to the core of the issue".

I would say that conservitives tend to be more hasty to go to war and that could be an argument that they are willing to risk human life.
On the other hand, some risk must be taken to protect life and way of life and if liberals try to prevent us from going to war, that too could cost lives.
So it really comes down to individuals driven by political atmosphere, doesn't it? The "peaceniks" of the vietnam era set the political stage to get us out of there and probably saved a bunch of US lives in the process. At the same time they were risking a larger failure - the risk that communisim and USSR would win the cold war. It turned out ok but it could have gone the other way. (WW-II being a possible example in the other direction)

Political stage? Right now, President Bush needs anything he can get to help American political opinion support the direction he has decided on for the Middle East. Don't you think that any and every little bit of WMD found would be trumpeted around the world?

While I am certain we are no way being told everything, I am equally convinced that we would have instantly heard of any kind of WMD that would have been a serious threat to a large group of humanity, and I don't mean a few short range missles and the testing he did on the Kurds.

I'll agree that Saddam was funding terrorisim, but I understand that was mostly through payments to Palestinian suicide bombers families, not anyone involved with 9/11.
You mention there were items found. What exactly were they? According to what was found, how much capability did that indicate? Did he have thousands of rockets able to reach New York and Washington? A couple of hundred able to get to Isreal?

Last count I saw we have found over 500 Weapons with Mustard Gas or Sarin Gas. I don't think they had the capability to shoot them much further than the neighboring Country. I will say that if we hadn't invaded, they may have had the capability by this point, or at the very least, they would be more capable, he had already kicked the UN out. The real problem, is that you can put enough of these gases into a suitcase and kill hundreds of thousands, and Iraq is close to the size of California, picture tiny needle, big haystack.

Many of these found weapons were claimed to have been destroyed by Sadam to meet the UN Sanctions. He didn't do a very good job...

Some of us did our thing in Korea, and Viet Nam, and we still don't agree with Bush after about Five (5), Cinco, years of bombing one country after another with no end in sight, and worse off now than before it started. Torture seems routine. Pulling out a school or two to see that meets irregularily, one or two half-staffed hospitals, etc., and saying these are the good things, is stupid. That American approved so-called government has already changed people about twice, and are already bucking us on many things, including Israel in Lebanon. You can't blow up all of the Moslems in the world and not expect an increase in terrorism. Even Afghanistan is worse for poppies and Taliban than it was before. It has NOTHING to do with the soldiers. It is Bush and Cheney, and Rumsfeld, and silenced generals. Sad. Hunt down terrorists is all we should have done, there weren't any in Iraq in 1999.

My post is about the Cluster F***, that Iraq has become!

So what are you going to do about it? Besides blogging on a local newspaper's message board crying about it?

How about developing and employing tactics in Iraq that are effective? Seems what's happening now aint working.
Things like
- come down HARD on the COMMANDERS responsible for things like murder and rape committed by subordinates
- bring in investigators and publish names of and imprison the thieves of US rebuild money, American or Iraqi
- bring in enough of the proper kinds of experts and listen to 'em
- Put the Gitmo inmates on trial and in prison if convicted or release em. May be painful but we are a democracy and that is one of the basic human rights.
- more ideas?

'course I can't do any of this. All I can do is blogblogblog. Uh... and vote. And write letters.

Your post clearly said the Libs were against the war. Fact is, that is clearly not true, many were in favor of removing Sadam from power. Do you still wish he was in charge?

We have accomplished a long time goal of the United States. The UN was on board too. Now that we are there, what do you recommend? Cut and Run? I'm thinking we aren't being forceful enough. But I'm no War expert.

Your post is about gleefully trumpeting our troubles under the name of America1st. You libs are all about the irony, aren't you?

Lib bashing? Hey snark, - how about something concrete you believe will work?
What do you think has been done wrong in Iraq?
How can it be fixed?