Seniors are not part of the community? Having housing for 700 seniors - most of whom already live here now means PTC "is losing it's community feel(ing)?" Get a grip. What would you rather have done over there, 2 acre lots with a couple hunded septic tanks next to our main source of drinking water and a surface crosing of the rrailroad? Are you nuts?

Your moving is fine with me. You can be replaced.

I think this project would be good for the City. Seniors take care of their homes, place little demand on police/schools. What would you recommend for this area?

You do realize that the original plan for PTC called for many, many more residents than final build will now be.

So, that makes it right?

In my opinion, it has made the town better. Like I've asked before, what is your recommendation for this area of the "West Village"?

It is reality for any desirable area.

You either complain, move or work to control the growth in the most constructive manner possible.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

So long as the residents are in the above mentioned age group and we are to assume, most are retired; then the impact will not be as great as if they were filled by families. These residents will do what most of us wish we could do, avoid Hwy's 54 and 74 during rush hour traffic. Much of their commuting will be via golf cart so we may be looking at 4 laning the cart paths, just joking on that.

Fire Chief Lohr has previously mentioned relocating the fire station on Crabapple down near the proposed intersection of North MacDuff Parkway and Old Senoia Rd. Makes sense when you consider this development. I do agree with CMC that the demand for emergency services will rise as will the need for more police presence. While seniors don't typically commit crimes, they do tend to become easily victimized and Peachtree City will need to add patrols.

Adding two intersections off of MacDuff Parkway will help relieve the congestion and gives alternative routes to those that live in the area. One thing that we lobbied for was speed controlling designs and implementations to keep MacDuff Parkway from becoming the bypass that your "pushing". I personally am not convinced that a bypass is really needed. There are several routes to I-85 and if you watch the traffic in the morning coming from Coweta County, very little actually turns North onto Hwy 74. Most either goes south or toward Fayetteville. Besides, bypasses simply impact the environment and promote more commercial growth. Not sure we need more than we are already getting.

Based upon what I have seen and heard of the two developments, there will be little room for Lowes in the West Village. If you remember, Wieland once proposed a white collar commercial development as a part of his village concept, but it was comprised of smaller mom and pop type businesses and professional offices. At the time, our HOA was fully supportive of the plans that were presented to us and we might still be, but will have to take into consideration the impact that 700 additional homes will make.

Levitt might consider purchasing the Tennis Center and putting a better cart path connection in, versus building more tennis courts and a pro shop. That could help Peachtree City, Peachtree National Bank, and Levitt. Hmmmm.

We do know that based upon the price range listed that most of the property will be tax positive, meaning that the taxes generated by the property should exceed what it costs to support, so that is a good thing, and supposedly; WASA has indicated they have the capacity for development in the West Village. Well here it is, between these two annexation applications, this will be some major development.

I'll be curious to see how long this Phase 1 Annexation request takes. As you may remember, Wielands Phase 1 took forever. Maybe this Administration has worked out the kinks better.

Dana Kinser

Nobody is going to pay the million and a half to the Peachtree City National Bank and the developers but you and I! The lawyers will definately also get about 30%. Remember who won the local election?

A lot of good info there.

But I seriously disagee on no need for a by-pass.

The biggest current traffic issues come from turning onto west bound 74/54 and making left turns out of the Walmart areas difficult way to often.

Those are not big issues for you, but for those of us living east of there it most assuredly is.

Look forward to inheriting cut-through traffic.

Like around 5:30 this afternoon at the intersection heading east. Over half the traffic turned north onto 74. That means earlier they turned right off of 74 onto 54.

It is a short-term help but not a long term fix.

My feelings on it, anyway.

I avoid that intersection getting home because it is so bad at times.

Even with the road completed giving a partial relief continued development is going to build the traffic and issues right back up again.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

When the bridge and all lanes open at 54/74 do you really expect the traffic to go away? It will not---won't even improve very much. Lets fill in Wynnmeade Lake and build condos there also---20 stories high! Do you also see the development in eastern Coweta? They will use our shopping if they can get here.

Mac Duff will become a cut-through. You will have no more success than Planterra has.

A desirable by-pass for through traffic is the only solution to keep residential streets unused. And not just north of 54, but south as well.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I'm not saying it right or wrong, but I'm curious as to where you think could build it. Line Creek is going to complicate any roads build West of PTC for sure (it's one of the major reasons for the lack of East/West corridors now). Coweta may have to get involved, and you know how well different Counties like working together. I don't see folks trying to get to Coweta coming down 74 utilizing a ByPass build East of PTC. What's your proposal?

Seems a lot of folk are not listening.

Hamster gets it.

The second they extend MacDuff, or any other road, to service more homes in West Park, it IS the By-Pass.

They will have to do some studies, of course. But in principle, some of that land they want to use to put houses on needs to be by-pass. The developers are going to have to give up some profit to infrastructure necessity.

A by-pass can take many forms. It can be a formal highway stype or a PTC Parkways style.

Don't do it, and Planterra, MacDuff and such WILL be the Nnrth/South By-Passes.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I suffered through the presentation on the traffic study. Simple fact that kept getting pointed out was the lack of volume of traffic in the morning heading East on Hwy 54 THEN North on Hwy 74. So, based upon that, morning traffic will not be utilizing MacDuff Parkway as a cut through. If you would like a copy, let me know. Great reading material for those long sleepless nights.

In the afternoon rush hour, Hwy 54 will be able to handle the current volume and the lights will be synchronized to allow a better flow than they currently do. Keep in mind these lights that you refer to are currently on timers and not adjusted for traffic patterns, thus the major backup in traffic. When the construction is done and the lights timed properly, you will indeed see a better flow of traffic.

The Hwy 54/Hwy 74 intersection is doomed regardless of what happens. Unfortunately, the State DOT wasn't astute enough to make the necessary changes to that intersection when they did the construction on Hwy 54. Those changes are slated for roughly 15 years from now. Not a bright spot for DOT, but then they do tend to lose sight of issues such as this.

All this being said, I am not an expert in traffic studies or traffic management, and from what I am reading, neither are you. I will, albeit blindly; go with what has been presented by the experts and see what happens. But neither developer is going to want to taint their new developments with a by-pass cutting through, so I fully anticipate we will see major traffic calming designed into the construction of the road.

Time will tell.

As for your desired by-pass, currently Fischer Road, which is in Coweta County, is used as a means to get to I-85. While it has some volume it is not that heavy and I personally think it reinforces my stance that a by-pass is not needed. Once again, look at the flows of where the traffic is coming and going. No need for a bypass.

Dana Kinser

I agree neither of us are experts.

But I am not blind to common sense. I can see what is happening and realize there is no way to time those lights to deal with every direction and issue.

And who said anything about a by-pass for getting to 85? I sure didn't. I am talking about the developments along 54 and 34 with those people from here that work around Newnan and those in Newnan that work around here or need to go north on 74.

Plus shopping traffic and so on.

We are going to have to disagree on this one I believe.

But I sure know that trying to fix the 54/74 intersection as a solution sure is not going to work.

There are a few other places, in and around Atlanta, very similar to our traffic issues there. Lanes all over the place and such. But no alternative. They are disasters to drive through and people cut through residential areas heavily. even with stop signs and such.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I agree, it will be. Still not sure another bypass is workable in the tight confines of Fayette Co between 74 and Line Creek.

I'm still not sure it won't be MUCH better when the new road if finished (after seeing what 1 widened bridge at I-75 and Eagles Landing can do, I'm willing to give it a shot). Best bet may be to come off interstate 85 with more access directly into East Coweta County. More access East/West over Line Creek would also benefit both Counties. Only 3 Counting Rockaway 54 & Canongate Road that I can think of. That's possibly the biggest issue.

To me that would costitute a by-pass for what we are talking about. In the broad sense of the term.

I agree another road off of 85 is an excellent idea. Agree that figures heavily into the bottle necking at 54/74. But Tyrone fought that idea in the past.

That would pull a ton of Coweta traffic off if they could avoid 74 and PTC. Stop it from ever entering the area.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

The day it opens it will be used as a bypass. That's a given. Best plan for the city and the developer and roadbuilder is to recognize this and design it as such so it has a minimal impact upon the residents.

Well if MacDuff Parkway becomes the cut through, we'll simply ask the city to put up gates on our subdivision. And I am just joking on that.

We know that there will be some cut through traffic, but with proper design and the potential for a school zone, enough traffic will likely be deterred so that it won't become PTC Guy's bypass. Add to that, the entrances to the subdivisions that will likely result in stop signs along MacDuff Parkway and again you will deter some traffic.

The ability for traffic to move faster on 2 four lane Hwy's will mean that most people will stay on the Hwy's except when there is a traffic accident along either hwy. That is when we will see the most cut through traffic.

Dana Kinser

With respect, you are fooling yourself. As Planterra is fooling themselves.

They will NOT stay on the Highway when it takes multiple lights just to get to the intersection.

Come on. A bit of reality here. They already have 4 traffic lights to get through, frustrated drivers trying to merge in, left turn traffic out of Walmart is already struggling, and so on.

You are doing tunnel vision. Only trying to look at your issues. NOT looking at Planterra or others.

Either figure out and find a by-pass plan, for both north and south traffic, or you WILL suffer the consequences of being short-sighted.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

My 8th Grade son was visiting a friend in Cardiff. I live in Spyglass, so it's an easy cart ride over. It was around 5 PM. I was amazed at the amount of folks using Planterra as a cut-through with Coweta/Meriwether/Henry/ etc tags. Tailgating galore. I really do have a MUCH better feel for what you are going through. Anybody who hasn't experienced it from a street level owes it to themselve to do it. I would be in favor of helping your subdivision get some type of relief.

The only cure is to give the drivers a reasonable alternative. 54/74, 4 traffic lights in that extremely short distance, a battle to left turn out of Walmart and a few other issues are not going to cease to be issues that impact everyone.

You have to fix ALL the issues. I believe you know that.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I have a great idea...how about making a deal with the developer? We allow the annexation; give you the project go ahead however as part of the deal...the city wants you to buy Wynnmead. As a matter of fact.....lets put this senior project where Wynnmead is now...give the Seniors a nice lake to look at! Its time to clean up the West Village!!!!What better way to do it?

Seniors will eventually take over Wynmeade. The renters and investors and marginal people will sell out when Levitt offers them $300,000 for their $79,000 homes and gets to put a high-density seniors project in there. Harold and the gang will rezone that in a heartbeat.

I'll take all I can get.

There's plenty of them there, it just that they sell for $100-130,000 now for some unknown reason.

I don't know that you will find many, if any for that price range, but there are developers quietly buying these homes. Look for this area to become an in-fill area. With larger than normal lots and lake front property, they may be able to sub-divide the lots and put two $500,000.00 homes in where one was purchased for $140,000.00.

Don't laugh, this may happen very soon. When it does, you'll see the rental properties going quickly.

Dana Kinser

I was being a little tongue in cheek with my comment. I could see those homes getting more and more valuable.

Was beautiful ten years ago. Will now look like Riverdale in ten more years with our current administration in PTC. There are millionaires to make yet, and multi-millionaires to fatten. A lot of banks to flourish. Wish I thought deviously like that!

up 74 for you. Coming from Henry County over 2 years ago, you don't realize how good we have it traffic wise. Even the 74/54 intersection isn't as bad as getting through McDonough Square.

Like PTC Guy says, many didn't even want 74 4 laned.

This seems like a good plan to me.

You have to think once in a while! They have to have groceries and drug store stuff, and etc., don't they? And of course doctor's visits by the ton. Think once in a while. We should have let Del Webb built this at the hospital, away from 54/74. Thinking isn't difficult unless you happen to be a Bushie.

I guess it's you who needs to do the thinking!

Seniors do not all go out in the morning between 6:30am and 9:00am to do their shopping or see their Dr. Yes, some of them do, but this development will not add nearly as much traffic as a conventional development will. I'm almost certain that a lot of these seniors will use their golf carts to run their erands and not their cars. (I'm imagining a blue haired lady puttering along on her golf cart, with some impatient teenage driver from Centennial tailgating her.... )

In addition this company will build a whole lot less homes than what other developers would put in.

What world are you living in?

We have a good number of seniors where I live. Many are up and out bright and early. And I sure see them on the road to Fayetteville, driving slow, often in the left lane.

And Seniors do a TON of short hop, multi-trips a day. The get bored.

Don't go out early or in heavy traffic. HA!

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

What would you propose? This seems to be an idea that will get an overpass on MacDuff to 74. It also would put very little demand on schools. It very well bring more jobs into our area as demands for Doctors/Nurses may increase. It's not perfect, but a good idea in my opinion none the less.

2ndly, you have no idea of my political leanings. If you think I vote one party every time, you're sadly mistaken.

There are a number of us on here that remember the drive before the 74 of now was built.

54 and 74 were both two lanes and did not follow their current routes. People cried a blue streak what the expansion of 54 to 4 lanes would do to PTC. And what the creation of the current 4 lane 74 would do to growth.

Old joke about people moving in was the saying:

Now that I am here, close the door behind me.

If those people back then had their way, many of you posting, here, would not be here.

What is the difference between you, now, and them, then?
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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I like this idea, but I think the proposal should include five lashes from a cane pole to John Weiland for putting 3500 square foot homes on 8000 square foot lots. I'm kidding, of course, but what was he thinking? Oh yeah: excessive profit.

Well, now the joke's on him, I guess, because nationally new home sales are down, and the older section of Centennial has 20% of its houses for sale. The whole area is a mess with all that construction, traffic, etc. Interest rates are on the rise, and home values will most likely fall. They already are in Centennial. Almost every home for sale now is being reduced, and even that isn't getting a lot of bites. Ouch.

I have a proposal. How about we fix what's broken before we continue.

1. Crappy looking neighborhood (Wynemede). It needs serious updating and trash patrol. I feel sorry for the people who have lived there all this time and want it to look nice. They have some neighbors who are completely trashing the place. There's no excuse for litter, even at a construction site. In fact, once I read in a contracting book that you should examine the worksites of contractors before you decide which one will build your home. Trashy sites mean trashy business practices.

2. Trash patrol on the cartpath from Cedarcroft up through the Wal-Mart parking lot (I bet Target's parking lot and adjoining carpaths won't be that trashy). The Kedron Village is very neat and clean. Why not the West Village (which doesn't even have a sign that says West Village).

3. Traffic on 54/74. Do politicians hide their faces in shame when they drive through that mess? Did it occur to anyone that the roads should have been widened BEFORE building Wal-Mart and Home Depot?

God forbid we do something logical.

Sorry to ramble. I think the city council should propose that the developer who does the most to improve the area and extend MacDuff gets the first CONSIDERATION. Let them fix some of the mess they created before they get a green light.

Oh, and could someone finally build a real town square?

But what do folks expect? It's a Walmart. They will not police their area unless they are forced to by theats of fines etc. This can be proven by checking our most any Walmart in the Country. I won't even consider going in the Walmart unless the garden center is open and I can check out there. I can take my cart from just off of Lake Peachtree, I enjoy the ride, right up until I come up behind Walmart. Something needs to be done, I guess a little pressure on our elected officials is in order.

As far as the "look" of the West Village, while it's different, I think it may yet turn out nice and be a benefit to all of us.

SOMETHING has to be done about the 54/74 intersection. You have 4 traffic lights on top of each other.

Think about it.

It is the only artery west.

Think about it.

It forces every vehicle in the area wanting to go west to go through that intersection.

Think about it.

My point is widening alone does not overcome all the issues.

Can you say by-pass? Or should we have our own Spaghetti Junction to keep traffic moving?

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Upon reading my own post, I realize it wasn't very positive.

We moved here several years ago, and love Peachtree City. It can't be beat. I've never seen a city so friendly and accessible, and is generally clean and has little crime.

But the West Village is not well-planned.

Tell me, were all the other villages this messy while they were being built?

Those are very good points you raise and to answer your last question first - no, no way were the construction sites of the other villages this trashy. It is a combination from builders not caring and the city not enforcing. Used to be a construction site was cleaned (I mean really cleaned) every Friday and inspected by both the builder and the city. In the old days, John Wieland himself was on the job site every week and if it was trashy there was hell to pay.

And no the west village is not well-planned. You have too many landowners, no real master plan than anyone sticks with and worst of all no leadership from the city - and that's not a Logsdon problem or even a Brown problem. It is also Lenxox, the other Brown and Frady - all of whom had chances to take control of the west village. None did.

And now it is too late. All the city can do now is get the road built (hopefully at developer expense) and approve projects that feel right - like obviously the senior thing and maintain green space and cart paths.