Hoosier to you. And I will keep talking to my God.

As if being from up North is something to be ashamed of, or makes me an illegal immigrant from a foreign country. Grow up and get over that nonsense.

Did you know you are a Yankee as well? Just ask a European.

Still unwise to have built there. Unwise to think there would be building up stream.

And, one I know, who lived in Tinsely from 1972 to last year, says it always had flooding issues on really wet years.

I saw it flood in the 80s. More than once.

You do not build on virtual water level and think it will never flood. Wishful thinking.

Your growing up in Senoia and being here before the rest of us does not change that simple reality.

You don't like me. So be it. Be as bitter and sour as you wish.

Bye, bye until you grow up more.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Where does the bitter come from? I tolerate you people. I liked living in Texas and ya'll wanted bagels & the NYT in Houston and you were called "Wet-backs from across the Hudson." Now, calling me a Yankee? The only way my folks let me merry (sic) my ex- from Chicago was when I explained.. she wasn't a Yankee...her family was immigrants. They weren't even here when the War was fought.

"And, one I know, who lived in Tinsely from 1972 to last year, says it always had flooding issues on really wet years." We are glad he is gone. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. We are blessed you found somewhere else to lite.

Or at least you should, because everything you like about PTC was created by developers. Sure the Good Ole boy stuff is annoying, but that will go away by itself - and has for the most part. The current batch of developers and builders could not hold a candle up to those of yesteryear - the current batch is indeed a bunch of clowns and profiteers, but the old guys did it right.

There is one thing for sure. The Good Ole Boys were in it for the long stretch (for the right reasons), and there was continuity. The Johnny-Come-Lately Boys are in it for their egos, and they are really botching it up. Need I give you examples?

I'll ask you too, so I can get informed. Who are the good ole boys?
Developers, politicians? Not clear, can you help?

Thank you for asking. The Good Ole Boys are the ones responsible for the development of Peachtree City. I remember when PTC was just an artist’s rendering on the office wall of Joel Cowan in the Palmer Building in downtown Atlanta, above the Davis Bros. Cafeteria. You really don’t think Joel Cowan and Bessemer/Phipps did it by themselves, do you?

Once upon a time there were acres of land, approx. 12,000, in Fayette County, most of it green space…you know…the land with all the trees. Then along came Joel Cowan and his vision. With the help of the Good Ole Boys, the people who made things happen – the landowners, developers, bankers, politicians, businessmen, and yes, your average tax-paying person, his vision became a reality. The Good Ole Boys changed during the years; some passed on, some retired, but without them, you would not be complaining about developers and flood plain because in all probability, you would not even be in Fayette County.

Yep. All these people were needed to get it going.

But that does not make them Good Ole Boys. Good Ole Boys are those who are in it for power and money.

All developers and such have a vision. That does not make them Good Ole Boys.

Good Ole Boys are those who invest in building up a town and then want to run it for themselves. Who want to keep milking the system after they sold their product.

Remember, once a developer sells his product it is no longer his. It belongs to those he sold it too.

Good Ole Boys sell the product but try to keep the power over it when it is no longer theirs.

It is not a local creation or reality.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

If the Good Ole Boys were so perfect, why was one of the ealiest built devlopments placed in a flood area that has flooded many many times? Ben evaculated by boat?

Why did the Good Ole Boy politicians allow its construction?

All developers have to be watched like a hawk. Old or new.

Their 'right reasons' were green and go in banks.

There have benn many developers in here over the decades. Where you ever got the idea their was a handful of marvels in the initial decade or two is absurd.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Developers are businessmen. Not humanitarians or any such thing.

And if you find the Good Ole Boy stuff annoying, maybe you don't understand the difference between a Good Ole Boy and a developer businessman.

Good Ole Boys abuse.

And many of those yesteryear developers, in PTC, are the ones who slapped in faulty storm and other systems that we are paying heavily for now.

They are the ones who build developments on flood land deliberately.

Get over the love fest. Not building in flood areas has been a taboo for any knowledgable construction person for longer than any of us have been alive. And for the politicians that allowed it.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Can you explain this flood plain stuff? Who allowed it? When?

The U. S. Army Corp of Engineers determines the flood plain. Property located in the flood plain now was not necessarily in the flood plain 50, 40, 30, 20 years ago. The flood plain is updated, but I'm not sure if by request or just part of their ongoing work. Perhaps there are others who read your question who are qualified to give you the answer you are seeking.

Tinsely Mill is virtually water level on the lake shore. In fact, some homes have supports in the water.

A friend, who has his engineering degree in this field, said that it should have never been built. But that it was built for monetary and political reasons. And it was built late 60s and early 70s. Build because they wanted to get some homes up to boost PTC growth.

Currently, with much tigher flood plain laws coming into effect over the years because such happened all over the county, an application to build there would be dismissed immediately.

So much for the theory of developers and politicians doing things for the right reason and the long haul. This waa a blatant, deliberate action.

As other short changings they got away with in other ways. Which is common all over the country.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

You are correct, PTC Guy. Obviously the flood plain laws were not very strict in lots of places other than PTC. Look at the 9th Ward in New Orleans. I believe we adhere to the laws in effect at the time we build. Who knows what things will be like thirty years from now.

Developers get away with what the politicians allow them to.

My Dad was a lead construction foreman in the 50s and 60s. Including building the Bethlehem Steel Burns Harbor plant in Indiana. Then and long before it was common knowledge you just do not build on sites such as Tinsley.

Honest builders would simply refuse to do so. Those after the buck would build where they could when.

So, I am very familiar with how the developer and politician games work. When such is allowed to completion and signed off on... well, need I say more?

There are other examples of such 'getting away with things' in PTC dating from the 'good ole days.' Like a storm drain ditch that was signed off on 20 years ago that has no exit. So it causes flooding.

To this day it remains unfixed and causes road, property and even home flooding.

My Dad opened a business to get away from that stuff. He didn't like the games.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Sure would be nice if you two knew how to stay on the topic starter's topic for a change.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC is great. Thanks to the Good Ole Boys. If they had not made the decisions that were made in the late fifties and early sixties, there would be no PTC.

No better place anywhere. When you get on Peachtree Parkway or better yet Aberdeen Parkway you can feel the difference. With the obvious exception of Kedron and that crap on Highway 54 west, even the shoppping centers feel special.

Office parks are very well done and for the most part there are no houses on the main feeder roads - which helps to create neighborhoods.

Joel and Floy did have vision and patience. We have them to thank for what is here now. Most who followed them were true to the plan and the few bad decisions - like Tinsley Mill and Harmony Village were the exception rather than the rule.

This could never be duplicated again today even if you controlled all the land. Simple reason - there are no more Joel's and Floy's only pirates like Jimmy Halligan, Doug McMurrin, Alex Thompson, Jim Pace and Pete Corbett. And there are also no real cooperative (compliant, if you prefer) politicians either. Everybody who runs for office today wants to change things. Imagine what that would have been like in PTC in the 70's and 80's? Whoops - off topic. Sorry PTC Guy.

I don't think noting how things have evolved, as to living in PTC, is off topic.

But getting into the motives of developers is.

By the way, I don't have to imagine how it was living in PTC in the 80's. I did.

It was not perfect. A lot of the problems now were problems then.

In example, flooding. It was an issue for more than Tinsley Mill then. And has gotten worse since.

So, the Stormwater Utility is an improvement now to repair the problems of then.

I agree with you that some of the newer shopping developments have lost the initial PTC vision. And that is indeed a loss to PTC as a whole.

For government, I believe the shattering of the behind close doors system of then is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

In example, I know of many places developed in the 70s and 80s, where the utility side was never fully developed or properly installed. Each was suddenly approved as complete, without any open public format or even a contact to those developments' owners.

PTC has evolved. In some ways for the better and in some ways for the wose.

But I believe some ways for the worse have been caused by State and Federal Law, plus lawsuits to force PTC to allow developers to have their own way, to the loss of PTC.

Still, I believe it is a great place to live in comparison to the alternatives.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

Sounds like you have first hand knowledge of the Tinsley Mill flooding. Sorry, but secret meetings and crooked government did not cause that problem. When Wieland built his subdivisions upstream they were legal at the time and approved by everyone in the food chain. When the engineer at the development company became a partner in the development company's profits, he began to undersize things and cut corners. Legal, yes. Moral, no.

Then after the first flood, they fixed it - sort of and after the second and third - turned the problem over to the city. No conspiricy - just greed and stupidity.

For the record, Joel and Floy would have handled it honorably. To them a few thousand dollars would be an easy expenditure to solve a real problem. Not everyone thinks the way they do. Good honorable men who always did the right thing.

Nice try, Hamster. It should never have been built there.

Obviously, you are either not aware of the physicalities of Tinsley or not aware of construction limitations and so on.

No. I don't live in Tinsley. When looking for a home I dismissed it immediately because I knew it would flood.

And fixed it?! PLEASE! To fix it will take a flood wall backed by pumps. And then that is not a 'fix.' It is a patch.

Sorry, Hamster. That was never a few thousand dollar fix.

Never should have been built.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

By the way... Glad your lame self doesn't live here.

PTC Guy has been a very good poster, as has Hamster. As for that Get Real person, I don’t know. I might just call the Marshall’s Office on him.

I agree with PTC Guy that Open Government is now a much better environment. I also agree that much of the development has been shoddy (the flooding at Tinsley). But I now think we have a much more professional and competent staff at City Hall. One problem in the past with the closed door good ole boys is that they did what they wanted, for whom they wanted and oftentimes justified it by saying “Yeah, but you wouldn’t believe the conditions that we got the developer to agree to.” No— we don’t want these screwy deals. Just follow the City Ordinances and we’ll be happy. That’s what the current staff does. Joel Cowan was a true professional but a lot of profiteers and clowns from the 19th Hole at Flat Creek were not.

Maybe a little PTC history will put things in better perspetive.

Click HERE.

Yep. PTC conceptually began in 1959. But you will see that such as Tinsley were solidly among the first developments. In 1969 there were about 420 families and 11 industries. And you will see how the governing Good Ole Boy system got started.

The few were in control and they determined when anything got passed along.

Not saying the founders were not good men. But the history says it all about how we got from there to today.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

PTC Guy, you don't have a clue as to how it got started, and you certainly don't know WHEN it got started. The Good Ole Boy system was in place long before PTC. I know. I was here. My family has been here for generations. You don't have a clue. One page of PTC history does not tell the whole story. How can you pretend to know so much when you weren't even here?

I was referring to PTC history specifically. Please get up to speed.

And how funny, you think only GA has Good Ole Boy systems? Hysterical.

Get over it. It is nothing unique or invented here.

Yea. I have a clue. I saw it where I grew up. I saw it in other places as well, including overseas.

Form may vary, meaning does not. And the form here is found a thousand times and more elsewhere across the country.

It isn't something to admire. It is something get rid of.

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Keeping it real and to the core of the issue, not the peripherals.

I know you are referring to PTC history, but how can PTC have a history without Fayette County. It is part of Fayette County, and the Good Ole Boy system was here before and during the development of PTC. PTC did not stand alone for a long time.

I did NOT say that only GA has Good Ole Boy systems. How did you come up with that idea? You will never "get rid of" the GOB system. The boys change, but the system remains the same. You get over it.

PTC-Guy wrote "My Dad was a lead construction foreman in the 50s and 60s. Including building the Bethlehem Steel Burns Harbor plant in Indiana." A fine job they all did there.

Yeah, you tell him. Did you and I ever go skinny-dipp'n?

I don't know about skinny dipping, but I do remember the nearest public swimming pool was in Senoia in the 1950s. People these days don't even know how to pronounce Senoia. Is it time to roll out the "Yankee Go Home" signs?

You are showing your age. I gave up long ago correcting people. I liked when the old maid mayor of Senoia tried to give a new-comer a lesson. I like watching the news where the reporter in reporting from CO-eta county. Didn't they ever see a kow-eat-a boy? Can't make too much fun of 'em...they pay the bills.

Go ahead and call the Marshall's Office on me. There is no enforcement what so ever from them or Animal Control when it comes to strays or constantly barking dogs.

No one is going to pick up your ugly shaved butt. You would scare the other animals in the shelter.

Grow some hair - try to look foxy (whoops) maybe more catlike.

Wonder what a shaved hamster would look like. Come on hamster...give the hair up.