* Former president’s son disagrees with columnist’s torture assessment

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Letters to the Editor

Former president’s son disagrees with columnist’s torture assessment

Tue, 04/18/2006 - 4:47pm

By: Letters to the ...

Earl Tilford criticizes the Presbyterian Church and the professor who recently organized the Princeton Seminary conference on torture for referring to the “unforgivable horror in Abu Ghraib” and likens the instances of torture there to fraternity and sorority pranks, (“Pow’r in the Blood,” April 12.)

Among the instances included in the “Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) on the Treatment by the Coalition Forces of Prisoners of War and Other Protected Persons By the Geneva Conventions in Iraq During Arrest, Internment and Interrogation,” that was leaked to and reported by the Wall Street Journal, a prisoner whose death was attributed to “cardio-respiratory arrest-asphyxia” had a broken nose, several broken bones and skin lesions on the face consistent with beatings.

A 61-year old man was found with severe burns after he had been tied over the engine of a vehicle. Another person had been handcuffed and made to lie face down over a “hot surface” resulting in severe burns requiring three months hospitalization. He underwent multiple skin grafts and part of his hand had to be amputated.

The report also describes threats against members of the detainees’ families, tight handcuffing resulting in lesions, stress positions, beatings with rifle butts, prolonged exposure to the sun and isolation in dark cells.

One prisoner was force-fed a baseball which was tied into his mouth for four days.

Other activities attributed to persons supervised by Coalition Forces (CF) include whipping detained persons with cables, kicking in the groin, handcuffing prisoners to overhead iron bars and left hanging, burning detainees with cigarettes, mock executions and electric shocks administered to them with stripped electric wires.

CF military intelligence officers also told the ICRC that in their estimate between 70 percent and 90 percent of the prisoners had been arrested by mistake.

The Bush administration has sent terror suspects to Uzbekistan for detention and interrogation through their program of “extraordinary rendition” even though it is well known that the police repeatedly torture prisoners and in spite of President Bush’s claim that he does not send prisoners to countries that practice torture.

Recently, the State Department officials wrote that in Uzbekistan, the most common techniques were “beating, often with blunt weapons, and asphyxiation with a gas mask.”

Separately, international human rights groups reported that torture in Uzbek jails included boiling of body parts, using electroshock on genitals and plucking off fingernails and toenails with pliers. Two prisoners have boiled to death.

If Mr. Tilford wishes to see the pictures of these two men, he can Google “torture” and “boil” and click on any of the first 10 entries.

Or if Mr. Tilford only wants to review the “unforgivable horror” at Abu Ghraib, he can go to Salon.com and see the 179 photos and the 19 videos recently released by the administration under a Freedom of Information Request.

Over 100 detainees have died in custody. Nine detainees are alleged to have been tortured to death and to have died during their interrogations.

I understand that Mr. Tilford supports the Bush administration and, by extension, supports these actions either explicitly or by turning a blind eye to them. That is his right.

However, these heinous crimes are by no means equivalent to fraternity and sorority pranks and Mr. Tilford should not blame the Church for objecting to them.

Jeff Carter
Peachtree City, Ga.

Mr. Carter is the son of former President Jimmy Carter.

JeffC - responses

Submitted by JoeStell on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 4:02pm.

Mr. Carter,

I agree the treatment that many prisoners have received is beyond what any civilized country should tolerate. Most of your letter concerns facts and allegations. The main thing I take exception to is your comment:

"I understand that Mr. Tilford supports the Bush administration and, by extension, supports these actions either explicitly or by turning a blind eye to them. That is his right."

I support Mr. Bush in most of his policies, but not all. I think the border security needs help and government spending is too large. But if you suggest that I condone the treatment in Abu Ghraib by my support of President Bush, then you have taken an analogy way too far. Let's focus on whether the problems are top-down or were the result of rogue individuals or small groups.

Responses

Submitted by JeffC on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 2:57pm.

Thank you for your comments on my recent letter concerning the criticisms of the Presbyterian Church’s comments about torture at Abu Ghraib.

I would like to say to Mr. Hamster that in my case he was both right and wrong. I did expect to be attacked. However, I did not even consider that being against torture would be considered smug, elitist, an unrealistic proposal or considered to be evidence of a warped view of the world. The Geneva Conventions were implemented by the victors after World Wars I and II to protect our troops against the barbaric treatment they received. I hadn’t considered that some might now consider it a family value of some sort.

And yes, to CarpeDiem, I have heard of all of those countries. In Venezuela, the Embassy of the United States issued a press release entitled: “US Supports Efforts of OAS and Carter Center in Venezuela.” Amnesty International’s report: “Venezuela Human Rights under Threat,” credits negotiations mediated by the Carter Center and the OAS led to an agreement between the government and the opposition umbrella organization, the Coordinadora Democrática, committing both sides to seek a "constitutional, peaceful, democratic and electoral solution" to the crisis.” The US representative to the OAS, in a State Department information report praised the Carter Center and OAS for “consummate diplomatic skill and political savvy” in surmounting “the obstacles placed in the path of the recall referendum by Chavez and his supporters.” The Canadian Department of Foreign Affairs released a document, "Canada Reiterates support for OAS and Carter Center Efforts in Venezuela." The EU expressed support as did many other organizations. Conversely, two Venezuelan reporters, supporters of Chavez, repeatedly attacked the Carter Center negotiators, incensed that they would call Chavez a “pariah” and accuse him of deliberately provoking the US. Referring to the Carter Center’s criticism of the Venezuelan government’s election council, Prensa Latina, Castro’s Havana newspaper, called for Chavez to reconsider having the Carter Center as election observers and called for the retraction of the “gross and irresponsible” declarations supposedly made be us.

In Cuba, my father gave a nationally televised speech calling for Cuban democracy as mandated by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which Cuba signed in 1947. He also pointed out that the Cuban constitution guaranteed free speech and association but that these freedoms were denied by Castro’s government. He also called for support of the Cuban Varela Project to allow public referendums to be voted on by Cubans and called for Castro to open his prisons to the Red Cross and UN Human Rights Commissioner.

The reference to Hamas is baffling. President Carter never has expressed support for the organization. Perhaps CarpeDiem can provide a reference.

In North Korea, the agreement negotiated by President Carter successfully kept the country from using their plutonium stockpile from being converted into nuclear weapons. The fuel rods were locked under IAEA inspectors watch and would have been removed from the country under the conditions of the agreement until it was foolishly abrogated, mostly due to the incompetence of John Bolton. The result was that North Korea has now processed the plutonium into nuclear weapons while the US administration did nothing.

Somehow, bizarrely, all of this translates into “full support” of Hamas, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea.

And lastly and leastly, for GeorgiaPeach; since the nominations and votes for the Nobel Peace Prize are secret, it would be extremely difficult to have, as you wrote: “lobbyed (sic) unashamedly for it.” Can you provide even a single statement made by my father to support this accusation? As for the references to my children, in the language that CarpeDiem and I both appreciate: Te futueo et caballum tuum.

Jeff

Terroristic Behaviour

Submitted by skyspy on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 11:17am.

Jeff after reading your letter, I did my own google search as you suggested. I was surprised and appalled by what I saw. How can ordinary citizens stop this from happening? There seems to be no easy solution.

However in our own community we also suffer from terroristic behaviour of a different kind. In Peachtree City innocent property owners suffer an almost daily dose of vandalism and criminal trespass.
This is a form of terrorism that could have an easy solution if we all work together.

It may seem odd to you and other irresponsible parents, but most people take a very dim view of antisocial behaviour perpetrated by thug kids. Our police force should not have to serve as a high priced day care for liberal yuppie parents who can't figure out birth control(or how to discipline that kid once it is here). I still say the easy solution would be an ordinance that would fine parents everytime their kid broke the law. Eventually these parents would either curb their kids behaviour or move. Either way Peachtree City would win. People do us all a favor if you can't or won't discipline them STOP HAVING THEM!!!

Ummmm, skyspy

Submitted by mudcat on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 6:38pm.

Jeff's kid was actually charged with Breaking and Entering, so he may be sensitive to the thug kids and local terrorist references. Let's tread lightly on that, if you please.
meow

Easy Big Kitty

Submitted by skyspy on Sat, 04/22/2006 - 9:01pm.

Hmmmm, let's see.....if the shoe fits.....!! Let's make our own community safe for everyone before we worry about one half way around the world. We can acutally make a difference here.

the sins of the father?

Submitted by iluvthebubble on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 11:50pm.

Why must bloggers bring Jeff Carter's family into this?
Jeff simply expressed his opinion in a signed letter; he did not mention his father (Cal added the identifying footnote). Yet anonymous bloggers respond by attacking his family! I've heard hardly a peep from most bloggers about the "meat" of Jeff's remarks, but plenty about his "lineage!"

We anonymous bloggers have the luxury of speaking our minds without worrying that our fathers, our wives, and our children will be publicly savaged. And most of us can go through life without having our father's legacy super-imposed on every comment we make. Let's afford Mr. Carter the same courtesy.

Jeff, I appreciated your comments. I've never been accused of being a liberal (OK, at least not since my 30s), but I found the letter though-provoking.

TORTURE

Submitted by yada yada yada on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 4:59pm.

TORTURE is what this country endured during four horrible years of the Carter Administration. The ugliness the Carters have displayed for the last 30 years is quite an embarrassment to this country and especially to Georgia. Carter would rather side with the dictators of the world than with his own country. There is a name for that. It is called traitor! (As in Jane Fonda).

Dear Jeff

Submitted by CarpeDieminPTC on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 4:38pm.

Regarding your latin, I'd have to say my experience with farm animals is limited, although yours may be great. I'd respond by suggesting that "Stercorem pro cerebro habes".

As to your queiry about your Father's opinion about Hamas, one merely needs to google those words and you will find that Your Father has always been welcome in nations that had dictatorial incompetent leadership. I wonder if he finds some kinship in those countries.

But if you want to know how you father really feels, CNN is a very liberal source for you.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/01/carter.hamas/index.html

I would like to know if your wife ever apologized to the PTC city police when she called them Nazi's the day that they arrested your son for having drugs in his shoes, and being drunk as a minor and for burglarizings some homes. . . ."alledgedly". I've always found it odd that liberals use the term Nazi's as if it were a always on the tip of their tongue.

I still suggest that for very good reading, one should read the REAL JIMMY CARTER and understand what drives the ambitions of our former President. Its a sad and embarrassing tale that most likely will over time, be what history will record about your dad.

I appreciate that you can stand up and share your thoughts, but you must understand that your dad is very much loathed by most Americans. He was doing so well when all he did was build homes, but when he tries to embarrass Bush by going to Europe to get a Peace Prize, then he's gone too far. Has your father ever been right about anything? I wonder. I listened to statements made in the Oval Office in 1977 where your dad and Brezineve (sic) were discussing the rise of the Islamists, and these early warnings were dismissed as mere racists comments by the Intelligence Communities. Your father's administration stated that they was no reason for anyone to fear the increasing rise of Fundamentalist Islamist Terrorists. This was days before the Hotel in Iran was established for our American Hostages.

All I can say, is thank God Ronald Reagan helped turn America from the malaize (sic) of incompetence that your father brought us during his four years in office.

WOW Carpe

Submitted by yada yada yada on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 5:43pm.

Beautifully said. May I add one thought. All the Carters and their mindless supporters (what few there are) "caput tuum in ano est". So we are probably wasting our time.

Thanks Jeff

Submitted by H. Hamster on Wed, 04/19/2006 - 7:08pm.

Your thoughts and paternity are an inspiration to us all. Please keep writin'.

Are You A Bed Wetter?

Submitted by Get Real on Wed, 04/19/2006 - 9:09pm.

Hamster. Say it ain't so. Your a Carter supporting bed wetter? That man would kill you off to back a terrorist. And I had just got my cat calmed down where he wouldn't rip you apart as you crossed the yard.

Irony get real

Submitted by H. Hamster on Thu, 04/20/2006 - 5:44am.

Subtle sarcasm is the way to deal with the Jeff Carter's of the world. Attacking them doesn't work because they are immune to that. They expect to get attacked because of their smug, elitist, unrealistic proposals and their warped view of the world.

Guess using the word writin' wasn't enough. But for the record, liberal weenies are not worth using as litter for me or your shaved cat. See, I'm trying to be nice to him/her/it.

Whew !!

Submitted by Get Real on Thu, 04/20/2006 - 7:20am.

I was hoping you would say that.

You've got to be kiddin'

Submitted by CarpeDieminPTC on Wed, 04/19/2006 - 7:40pm.

Did you ever hear of Cuba? Of Venezuela? of the Palestine terrorist organization called Hamas? (I won't even mention North Korea.)

What do these terrorist states all have in common? They have all murdered tens of thousands of innocent people, not just 100 terrorists, but innocent women and children, AND they have

The Full Support of your Father.

I won't say anything more about that, because I do not want to tell you how I really feel about the kind of man that your father was and is, but I can't sit by listening to others soft sell your comments and your paternity.

You mention a Salon.com website. May I recommend a book, The Real Jimmy Carter....
Nuff said about that,

However, Hampster, do you have a job? Because your writing skills are consistent with those of this newspaper. Maybe you can write the lead editorial and use your intellectual writing skills and knowledge on almost every imaginable subject to make this paper more than a nuisance to my riding lawn mower as I accidently drive over it as it lays soaked in water in my front yard.

Seize the Day in Peachtree City

Newspaper job

Submitted by H. Hamster on Tue, 04/25/2006 - 4:59am.

I'm a government worker (no irony there at all). Maybe in couple years when I retire. My writing skills are not up to Cal's level yet. I'm much too sarcastic and don't feel qualified to endorse political candidates on behalf of an entire paper.

Tell you what, I'll practice writing about the upcomong elections and if we are both satisfied with the results, I'll do a once a week column in The Citizen or maybe another paper, if they'll have me.

"thanks Jeff"

Submitted by GeorgiaPeach on Wed, 04/19/2006 - 8:59pm.

Yes, Jeff thanks to your father many have died. Your father is a disgrace to Georgia and to the USA. You people shamed this state and continue to do so after 25 years. Your parents are embittered and show it at every turn. Looks like the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. By the way, what ever happened to your son's robbery charge? I guess grandad got that dropped. Of all the presidents, Carter was and is the worst. His receiving the Nobel Peace Prize was a joke. Everyone knows that he lobbyed unashamedly for it for years. Nobody else has ever done that. And the europeans that awarded the prize gave it to him just to spite George W. Bush. If I were you, I would keep my white trash mouth shut.

Chill, GeorgiaPeach

Submitted by H. Hamster on Fri, 04/21/2006 - 7:17pm.

Nothing is to be gained by attacking Jeff or Jimmy or any Carter. Yes he wasn't a great president, or even a good one, but he did try hard and he is a good Christian man.

As I have said many times, don't attack liberals - make fun of them. They are immune to attacks, but subtle satire that they don't understand is the way to go. That amuses the conservatives within earshot and drives the liberals farther to the lunatic left of their party.

On the lunatic left they can't read Harry Potter, need someone else to pay for their school lunch, can't breed within the confines of a traditional marrraige, can abort their offspring at will and don't believe that others should be allowed to worship God.

It is easy to make fun of these people, Drive them futher left and they will become an endangered species.

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Former president’s son disagrees with columnist’s torture assessment

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