We have lived here 20 years and it has been issue after issue on the Authorities.

I understand the legal premise. But something is seriously wrong when we end up with such as the Amphitheater and Tennis Center.

If such cannot make it as private businesses we sure don't need them at taxpayer expense.

As for the Tennis Center, I was angry and thought it a joke when proposed, and still do.

If you were angry and thought the tennis center was a joke - you were and are wrong.

Your anger is your problem. The tennis center was not a joke when it was proposed and it is certainly not a joke now. The tennis center has produced a lot more revenue to the city than you ever have on your trailer and spending habits.

Yes, it could have made it as a private business, but my family and friends took the bull by the horns and took it public. Now the city gets the revenue instead of some "private (((edited)))) head" like Dar or J.T..

Get some reality.

That thing has cost a fortune and the court case is still not settled.

It has cost more than it has generated in revenue.

And those motel taxes spent on it is not free money. It is money that could have been put to better use elsewhere.

Even last year there were articles posted on how The Fred monies were being bled off into the Center.

And what about the financing to the Tourist Authority from the City for its budget?

And, as of last year, the records findable showed the Tennis Center loosing money every year.

You have records showing otherwise? Give a link, because that is news to many of us.

http://www.thecitizen.com/node/1336

A-B-Cs of the PTC Development Authority debt: Much discussion has been made of the debt of the mismanaged and failed PTC Development Authority. It racked up nearly $2 million in unpaid debt for an extravagant tennis center and then went defunct. Should the city of Peachtree City (and its taxpayers) be forced to pay that debt)?

You were saying about making great income?

Do more research. You are assuming how great things have been and are on the Tennis Center.

Why do you live here? If you disagree with so many things regarding the way PTC is run, why continue to put up with it for 20 years? Seems to me you're just beating yourself up over something you could easily change.

Where did that nonsense come from?

No place is perfect. But that does not mean one has to roll over and play dead on issues.

And what is this 'so many things' statement?

I have voice strong opinions on good ole boy networks, stormwater and Authority actions, backed or not backed by past City Councils.

I have defended the Stormwater Utility over the complaints of others.

Did the Amphitheater and/or Tennis Court touch a nerve in your personal desires? Sounds like it.

So, what is 'the so many things' I have griped about? Name them. Defend that statement.

In this one post alone. The Amphitheater/Tennis Center are the two you seem to harp on the most. I've have friends who wish they could live near something like our Amphitheater. It's a great for the city, in my opinion. Am I personally involved, no. Do I like everything they do, no, I do not. As far as the tennis center, or our Recreation/Tourism departments in general, it seems to me, that if they break even, or hopefully make a little money, they are doing the City good. You may disagree. But it's these very things that set PTC apart from the crowd. You can add cart paths to the list too.

I also agree, no place is perfect, but I would have a hard time find anywhere I would rather live than here.

Yep. I touched on what you like. Therefore I should move?

The Tennis Center was financially foolish from the beginning. Never made any sense in any way. Such facilities are for all of PTC residents, not the elite who can afford to pay the memberships. Nor does any political body have any business engaging in for-profit businesses.

We have tennis courts, pools, softball and soccor fields and such in PTC. They are fine. We don't need an elitist Center, that less than 1% of the citizens can afford to pay memberships for, on top of the tax dollars the Center consumes.

Tell all of us, who opposed the Tennis Center, how it is such a marvelous thing for the PTC residents? Explain please.

And many will not go to the Amphitheater because many of the elite seasons ticket holder sit up front, sing along loudly, get drunk and more. If the Amphitheater is for all of PTC then why are they getting away with this nonsense?

It is simple logic attendance and such would be much better, as would revenues, if they actually cracked down on this kind of thing.

But, no. They will not? Why? Because of who is causing the trouble?

Another reason politics and business do not mix.

As long as our tax money is involved we have a right to 'harp' on it. As you have a right to support it.

And that is the key and difference. When tax supported facilities cross the line, from being for all residents, to being class structured or non-residents, then they are no longer representing all PTC citizens, just the few.

Further, telling someone to move because they don't agree with you is taking a big step over the line of decorum. And you are totally out of line on that point.

And with respect, if your friends love it so much, why don't they live here?

There is a big difference between seeing things one likes in another city and actually wanting to take on fiscal responsibility for it.

Again, fill me in on what the 'so many things' are that I gripe about? I am waiting.

That's obviously your right. We tend to disagree more than we agree. You don't seem to like City services, extras per say, ie the Amphitheater, I view them as a "draw" to the area. There is a reason a home costs more per square foot in Peachtree City than in other surrounding areas.

Was it not you who did not think the amenities in PTC add to the value of our homes? Maybe I'm wrong. But I will say this, it's ok to disagree. If you were offended by my question about moving, for that I apologize.

You're probably one of the nicest folks in PTC, maybe I just interpret your post wrong.

That's obviously your right. We tend to disagree more than we agree.
True.

You don't seem to like City services, extras per say, ie the Amphitheater,
Those two are far from all the City Services. Nor do they define the City Services as a whole. And, your jump from those two to all is bad logic and reasoning on your part.

If I don't like a City Service, I will say something about it.

Remember, I have been the staunchest supporter of The Stormwater Utility, ie.
I view them as a "draw" to the area.
I have never heard of anyone being drawn because of the Tennis Center. City courts, pools, parks, golf cart path and such, yes. But never the Tennis Center.
There is a reason a home costs more per square foot in Peachtree City than in other surrounding areas.
There sure are! But the Tennis Center is not one of them.

Schools, clean city, low crime, and more. And yes, amenities for the citizens, which exclude the Tennis Center in that consideration. As the low membership numbers for PTC prove.

The Fred is nothing unique in that regard. Many, many, many cities have their Fred's.

Was it not you who did not think the amenities in PTC add to the value of our homes?
Got the wrong guy! I said the Tennis Court adds nothing.

Maybe I'm wrong.
You most assuredly are. Amenities add to home values IF they serve the people considering moving in. That does not include ones that serve less than 1%.

But I will say this, it's ok to disagree.
Now there, we are in 100% agreement.

If you were offended by my question about moving, for that I apologize.
As one who was/is active in youth programs and in Community, that was a whale of a slam.

You're probably one of the nicest folks in PTC, maybe I just interpret your post wrong.
Well, that was a lot of sweet butter, but I do try to be fair and helpful. Don't alwasy succeed.

I am not a politically correct kind of guy.

There are things government is best at. There are things private citizens are best at. And there are things private business is best at.

And such as The Fred and the Tennis Center are not among the two.

I love the golf cart paths. And even though I don't use them, things such as the parks, playgrounds, Gathering Place, tennis courts, pools and such are value adders to my home and the general quality of life around me.

But not The Fred or Tennis Center.

If they were attacked to and part of a smartly developed hotel, club and such center, it would be a fantastic add, and make money.

But just look at the cost history and such of the Tennis Center. What a long history of mishandlings.

Please point to your study which undoubtedly states that the Fred or the Tennis Center do not add to the quality of life ( or home values) in PTC. I do not think it's factually possible to prove they don't. I will say this, I know folks who enjoy both the Fred and the Tennis Center. I can prove that homes in PTC cost more per square foot than most any other Metro Atlanta Suburban City. It's impossible to say what amenities contribute and which ones don't to our higher home values.

You opinion is we don't need them, my opinion was you may be better served somewhere where your taxes are not spent in a way that upset you. You seemed to take offense, I apologized, you continue to say I slammed you.

Negative proof claims or demands don't fly in debate, logic, semantics, law or any such thing.

The burden is upon you to prove they do contribute what you claim.

The Tennis Court sure does not cotribute revenue in a cost versus income analysis.

The membership numbers of citizens prove they do not add to quality of living in PTC or home values.

And being a world class faciility does not. Simply because it does not host world class competitions.

The Fred is closer, but still it is not unique. People do not move her for The Fred. You rarely hear of people going to The Fred in the total balance of who does versus all of PTC.

How many enjoy the Tennis Center as a percentage of PTC population? Minutia.

More enjoy The Fred, for sure. But no one moves here for it.

And I can prove, as well, that PTC has high home values. But it is not impossible to say what contributes. The schools, cleanliness, crime rate, shopping, heavily used facilities such as tennis courts, pools, parks and the golf cart paths are cited over and over and over.

Never is the Tennis Center cited. And The Fred is sometimes cited as also. But not in the main, as a side note.

Again, you are entitled to your opion of where I would be better served. And again I am entitled to my opinion that your opinion on such is self-serving for your desires.

Yes. We would be better off if those facilities were under the control of private business. They would both bring in more money thus more revenues from taxes if they were.

Apparently no one thinks the city can run the tennis center and the amphitheater, instead of the authority. That can only be atributed to mistrust of the city managers. It is not important whether these two facilities make my home worth more. Just raises my taxes. This is my home not a T-bill! All I do know is that the old development authority was corrupt and so were some of the people involved. Hope the new one isn't.

It amazes me that the taxpayers have to foot the bill for the useless game of tennis that probably only a couple of hundred people in the county play in the first place. Just at stupid and useless as the money spent plastering the Southern part of Fayette County with the "Share The Road" signs and the huge signs that show bike riders. The signs mysteriously appeared all over the place giving our back roads the appearance of being part of Riverdale. Again for a couple of hundred people we uglify our scenic county and waste tax payer money. This benefits the citizens of the county???? If offends those of us who try to keep up it's asthetics.

Shouldn't amaze you at all. Just review the 8-12 years before the last Brown and who the kingpins were who built it, by development authority. They were tennis players. Would never have gotten it built by voting and pretending that motel hotel taxes couldn't be used for anything better. It has to do with "classy" things that people with much, much money like to play with but for which they don't want to pay.

Yep.

Remember during the election arguments over paying the Tennis Court debt? Some actually claimed it added to the home values and standard of living in PTC.

Absurd.

It's a piece of cake to fund pet projects when your spending "OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY". Although I have to admit I do like the fireworks. Whatever happened to private & corporate sponsorships?

How about you let that stupid looking cat grow some fur so I can mount her? I"ll teach her about "fireworks" That fur should be growing back soon. Until then, I be squatting outside under the bushes. If Jesse Jackson came over to your house for dinner, he could tell your stupid looking cat/baby lion --- "STAY OUT OF THE BUSHES"

THEM'S FIGHT'N WORDS HAMSTER! Now you guys can say whatever you want about me and my "spewing of garbage". But when you start picking on Sonny P. that's a whole different story. Now eat them words you filthy varmit. If you mount my kitty that will make you a queer hamster. And that just ain't right. Plus the only thing ole Jesse would be good for would be to hollow him out and use him as a kitty litter box.

Plus Hamster how would you like to go through life looking like my cat. You predjudiced against naked cats or something? Again, how would you like to look like a politician with the {{{edited}}} kicked out of it?

One thing is getting forgotten in this.

We have a segment of the PTC populace that consider themselves elite. And they want only elite in PTC.

There attitude is that if you gripe about the costs and elitist thinking in the decisions you should not be living here to start with.

They do not care if they are not in the majority, numbers wise, as long as they are in the majority, control wise.

You got it! The "Elitists" are just that - elite. And, no they don't need to be criticized or questioned in any way. They are perfect! Remember that and you will get along. If you choose to butt up against them, you will be (((edited)))) or maybe censored/censured.

And, "majority"? are you kidding? 1% of this city control everything. And that is probably true in a lot of cities. Get over it,

I actually agree in most cities less than 1% are in control. Smallest to largest.

But what I also realize is that the scope of what they will try to get away with is directly proportional to the light of day shining on them.

If we allow Ivory Towers with all around frightened peasants, the elite are more emboldened than when they have to be more careful how far they push, because the peasants are looking and talking.

Still stinks, though.