Luckydog wrote: "Kerry joined the Navy reserve and wound up commanding a Swift boat in combat. He killed an enemy at close range and pulled a Green Beret out of the drink while his boat was in a firefight, according to official accounts."

Please, please tell me about these "official accounts", identify them please. I am of the Viet Nam era; I know someone that actually saw Kerry get a Purple Heart for shooting a rock and getting scratches from rock particles. It is my opinion that Kerry is in the same rank as Jane Fonda. He is a disgrace to our armed forces and our country. George Bush spoiled??!!! That's the pot calling the kettle black!!

Lawdawga

Hi lawdawg. I found the citations for Kerry's Bronze and Silver stars on the Internet, in 2 or 3 different places. You can do your own googling but this particular one is on snopes.com (which as you may know is an urban mythbuster site), on a page that shoots down some of the goofier conspiracy theories on all this

The Silver Star citation: "With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets," the citation says, Kerry "again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only 10 feet from the Viet Cong rocket position and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy . . . The extraordinary daring and personal courage of Lt. Kerry in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission."

Kerry was injured again on 13 March 1969, in an action for which he was awarded both a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. According to Kerry's Bronze Star citation (signed by Admiral Zumwalt):

"Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as an Officer-in-Charge of Inshore Patrol Craft 94, one of five boats conducting a Sealords operation in the Bay Hap River. While exiting the river, a mine detonated under another Inshore Patrol Craft and almost simultaneously, another mine detonated wounding Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry in the right arm. In addition, all units began receiving small arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks. When Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry discovered he had a man overboard, he returned upriver to assist. The man in the water was receiving sniper fire from both banks. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain and with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry then directed his boat to return to and assist the other damaged boat to safety. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service."

I read somewhere else the guy he yanked out of the water was a Green Beret but obviously this does not specifiy.

I hope that helps you in your obviously fair and open minded quest for information.

If he got it for shooting a rock...the rock was...in Vietnam...You know that is BS...he was too far down in th pecking order...now if Bush went...yeah...I could see that...or would that be...a rock shooting at a rock?... But he never went did he? I too, was around then...to get the national guard then was heaven....Bush is a wimp...and you can't make that look any other way...! Didn't show up for his phycial? Give me a break! If that wasn't and up yours...to the country ...I don't know what was. He got everything on a silver platter and still didn't even stick around to say thank you

Ain't, it's pretty amazing when you think about it. Here we have a decorated Vietnam combat veteran whose admirable service record is belittled and villified by some other vets, because he later spoke out against a war they supported and became a liberal politician. In other words, BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT HE THINKS AND SAYS, OR THE PARTY HE BELONGS TO.
But meanwhile they worship at the feet of a conservative administration led by a president whose own Vietnam service pales in comparison (and that's being VERY kind) and a veep whose "other priorities" kept him safely out of harm's way while forcing some other poor sap to take his draft spot.
The Garlocks of the world may think they are defending honor, and I applaud them for following their conscience, but the fact is they are just unwitting pawns in the service of political machinery.

Luckydog, to answer your question:

By the way, why is it you guys have no problem at all with Dick Cheney’s heroic “other priorities” deferment plan, which forced someone else to go in his place

Probably because you guys had no problem with Bill Clinton avioding the draft! First he kind of enrolled in ROTC, then went to England, smoked dope and protested. Who went in Clinton's place? I don't know Cheney's other priorities, but they were probably more conservative than that.

John "reporting for duty" Kerry ran primarily on his war record, because his Senate record was kind of empty. I do recall John Kerry stating in the 1992 Democratic convention speech when endorsing Bill Clinton that it should not matter who served or how! Wow, what a flip flop.

I know Cheney can shoot a mean weapon--bang and he hit the guy sneaking up on him down there in Texas--and he only needed a beer for lunch to muster the courage. No wonder Bush thought it was better not to show up for TANG.

Gee dog, can I call you that since you have no respect for someone with an 8-part title?

So dog, when Kerry will answer questions about his service, then both sides will have real information to form an opinion. When Kerry admits he was present and participated in fire-fights where women and children were killed, that he burned houses, etc and does not get investigated, who do you think is having strings pulled?

So when Mr "I voted for the war, before I voted against the war . . " uses his medals as a reason to respect him and as a basis to support him politically, but then throws them over the fence in DC in support of the opposition, he brings this on himself. We can agree on the basics of his service: A) He commanded a swift boat, B) He pulled someone out of the river and C) he receive some medals. Now let him answer the character questions, dog.

You may call me dog any day, 'up. In fact, since I do not have the courage to put my name on my comments you may call me worse. I do tip my hat to Jim in that regard, but he's still just Jim to me

Fair enough. I too use an alias. I mean who would name their kid "wakeup"? I won't call you worse. Just wanted to make a point. I will tip my hat to both Jim and you for your honesty.

Have a great day.

Now that we've had a group hug, I still think John Kerry would have made a terrible President.

As a child I waited while my father spent 2 years in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War, yes; I called it a war. I remember watching the military sedans pulling up to friends houses unaware at first why. Then within a few weeks my friends moved away.

After understanding what that military sedan meant, I cringed every time it came down my street.

In John Kerry's 3 months of "service" I don't think he holds a candle to those that gave more time or those that gave all.

Dana Kinser

It baffles me when "chicken-hawks," people who want war but never served and won't serve, criticize those who did risk their life.
Cheney, Quail, Bush, and scores of the Bushies are guilty. The height of hypocrisy!

I know the feelings you went through DKinser. I don't think Kerry would have made a great president either. The war in Vietnam was a war. Luckydog and I agree to disagree without getting into the name calling, bickering and childish rants that happen on this site all too often.

I am of the age where fathers, uncles and others were there and waiting for word of what has happened. I bought more POW bracelets than I can remember. I remember watching the nightly news and seeing the scenes of the heros in Vietnam and the idiots in California protesting.

I trust your father made it home. Too many people forget that "war is hell on the home front too".

Gosh, did I miss a time warp or something? Didn't Kerry loose the election and Bush got re-elected? Did Clinton (Bill that is) run again? Because there sure seem to be a lot of people concerned about Kerry and Clinton's (Bill that is) war record. Why not just use the George Bush (W. that is) theory that "what I did 30 years ago has no bearing on who I am now." By the way, as to the "honorable" service, did failing to keep his yearly medical thus grounding Bush after only one year of flying seem particularly "honorable?" I am a former military aviator and if I had done that I suspect I would have been talking to the C.O. about failing to meet my duty requirements. You can certainly "turn in your wings," but I don't remember Bush doing that. He simply didn't get his yearly required flight physical. Maybe he was afraid that his drug and alcohol use would cause him to fail it. But we'll never know. Pretty "honorable" though. Oh, as to Clinton, he was never drafted. He simply exercised his free right as an American citizen and resigned from the ROTC. Since he wasn't drafted, he didn't "dodge" the draft. As for protesting the war, seems to me that is a right guaranteed under the first amendment. You remember, "free speech" and all that? Something we USED to value so much we would die for it.
By the way, in retrospect, was unfailing support of the Vietnam war going to make it successful? You flew over there, were you actually bombing real targets? I seem to remember too many "off limits" targets like SAM sights, Russian freighters supplying arms, etc. The youth of the 60's became anti-war because of it's absurd failure. All the support in the world wasn't going to change it's outcome. Sort of like we are seeing today. Who was it that said "the U.S. will find itself an occupying force in an incredibly hostile environment with no exit strategy?" Oh... that's right, George H.W. Bush on why HE was smart enough to NOT take out Saddam in 1991. Too bad W. didn't read his daddy's book

Yes, you are 100% correct on Vietnam, I was there too, albeit on the ground. The failures were immense and the youthful detractors then have become the anti-war candidates and supporters of those candidates today. Kerry is only a product of his experience and generation. Indeed he would be a terrible president, but that does not mean his actions in Vietnam were wrong. Nor does it mean his actions after the war were wrong either.

Bush, a spoiled connected reservist who did serve, but without the distinction and heroism of a Kennedy (that's Kennedy, not Kerry, make no mistake about that). Bush is a great President on the war, although I wish he'd be more aggressive and he is a terrible president when it comes to cutting spending and controlling our borders.

Vietnam was an issue in the last election because Kerry made it so, thinking the National Guard thing would sink Bush. The Bush supporters fought back with the swift boat thing and obviously won, but you know what? IT DOESN'T MATTER ANYMORE!!!! Get over it and move on to the present.

So, birdman - what would you do? Get out of Iraq tomorrow? Make Kerry DefSec? Bomb Iran? Maybe seal up the borders in the name of national defense?

These decisions are difficult. What do we do birdman?

Being female, I didn't go to Vietnam, but I had so many friends come back robbed of their innocense, crippled in spirit and body, or just plain not come back at all. No one went cause they were Rambo, they were scared kids who chose not to go to Canada, to do what they thought was their duty to their country and their families. I was against the war, but not for the reasons Jane Fonda, or the hippies. I was against it because I felt nothing in Vietnam was worth one hair on those boys heads. It made me sick to see them come back butchered for a worthless war. Johnson seemed to treat it like football game, with a blind eye to all the misery he was causing for his ego. I admire anyone who went to Vietnam because it took guts not to run away or have someone pull strings for you, not that most knew anyone who could, or would pull strings. Once they got there they saw the horror and faced it. Most who came back were not proud of their medals. The fact that so many higher ups got them for just being there, and so many who deserved them never got them at all, cast an ugly shadow. About the only one they could feel good about was the purple heart. My ex came home and threw his away, years later I sent off and got replacements. My big old Marine, scout- sniper, cried like a baby, not over the big ones, but the purple heart. I really feel he was crying for all his friends still laying over there. These scared kids that went deserve our respect. If Kerry came home and threw them in the faces of old fart politicians that sent those kids there, then he earned the right. Bush did not. This country hurt those kids, and they gave us their best.