This situation is being investigated. Let's see what the results of the investigation reveals. Each child should show AT LEAST a year’s growth for a year’s instruction. I remember when Jaime Escalante, a high school teacher in Los Angeles, was accused of cheating when his class of Hispanic students did so well on a state test. They were required to retake the test - and their scores improved! I'm surprised that teachers may have been told that erasures would be OK (according to a reported statement in an AJC article). State tests in another state have been using scanners for grading answer sheets for over 20 years - and the teachers and proctors and students were trained NOT TO HAVE EXCESSIVE ERASUERS. We were told that this would surely raise questions about the validity of the child's answers. We'll see what the investigations reveal.
Tying district improvement solely to test scores is ridiculous - and not a true measurement of a district's or school's improvement. (And does put pressure on teachers to 'teach the test') The reason for doing this is that monitoring a schools success is difficult and expensive when using other forms of evaluation. Inflated grades/and test scores harm students - there is no argument there. Sending students to the next level without adequate skills to succeed is criminal.

Usually, but not always, when kids change answers, they change to the wrong answer. Your first choice is usually correct. When the tests are showing a large number of erasures and changes made to the CORRECT answer, a red flag appears. When there is money to be gained or loss depending on the number of correct answers then one has to question this because it sure does smell fishy. It will be interesting to see how this all turns out.

By the way, I love the Jaime Escalante movie and showed it in class for several years. It's very inspirational and the kids have always enjoyed it. I have even used some of his lines in class....."dig the hole.....fill the hole!"

I agree regarding changing answers. Between 'teaching the test' and changing test answers - one wonders if this method of evaluation needs to be looked at again. . .especially the test preparation program for teachers, administrators and students. Sometimes I feel that we have lost site of the goal of education - to inspire life-long learning. Oh well, hopefully we'll learn from the investigation - and make changes to benefit our students. I do believe in meaningful monitoring and evaluation of academic achievement - I just don't think we've arrived at a 'meaningful' method yet. I would hope that the American educational community would be interested in more than just teaching our students how to 'sound out letters' and 'add/subtract numbers'. We need to teach our students how to identify and solve problems, appreciate literature and art, respect their fellow human beings. Sorry for the soapbox stuff. . .going to listen to 'Tiger'. (Difficult to teach family values - when kids are exposed to this 'stuff')

that is MUST READ material.

You guys comfy? A little French Merlot for you? there you go. Joe, need a top off on that Kronenbourg? à ta santé. Woa! Look at the head on that beer!

now, I was jogging around in the crisp cool air and I had the chance to do some reflecting. I thought about how you, Robert, are quite the non-thinking reactionary at times. And Joe, you got a little beer running down your sweater... Well, you just ain't right.

But anyway, I know that I have come across here as a big time education snob. Quite so actually. I was just trying to make the point that Glenn Beck can not be trusted to make one valid point out of 100.

But then it hit me! Vouchers.....VOUCHERS! I've heard these before and locally. And I got to thinking. I need to Google this on the internets. And guess what I found? When it came time to put your money where your mouths are on vouchers, how did you local republicany conservativey guys vote?

Joe, why, using your words, do Republicans in Fayette County not "want children to get a good education"?

Robert, you of all people KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. Your comment is right there at 0641 HRS Saturday, April 19th 2008. And you made not one protest about the very local and very ferocious Republican opposition to SCHOOL VOUCHERS.

I think I've figured it out though. You *conservatives (not you personally Robert) just want tax money to help you send your kids to Woodward Academy, but you don't, for one millisecond, want those vouchers to help a child from a failing Clayton County School to come to schools near you.

What a bunch of pompous hypocrites.

Hey Joe? Where you going? You didn't have to throw that beer in my face? I would've finished it from the mug. Not the red wine Robert! Aww man. This ain't going to come out of my white Versace shirt very easily.

Hack

Also voters who are dependent on government who will vote like sheep for the Democrat.

Both Boortz and Beck did interesting bits on how and why public schools were formed. Basic idea was to produce moderately educated people who were smart enough to work in a factory for a lifetime, but not ambitious or curious. A compliant society that could be run by the European educated (that includes Harvard and Yale) elites.

I haven't read or researched that, but I will. If true, it it good to keep that in mind when we see our "leadership" oppose school vouchers, cut off federal funding for poor students in D.C. and kowtow to the Teacher's Union.

I wish our retiring school superintendent would write a book on his observations of how teachers benefited from their union and the students did not. And of course get his take on the public education meant to produce factory workers theory.

I haven't read or researched that, but I will.

It's always wise to do the research. I'll be interested in your findings. Were you a Harvard/Yale/etc. educated leader? Was all of your K-12 education private? Mr. King had 'interesting references'.
I had the benefit of an outstanding K-12 public education in the 40's and 50's. Almost none of my high school classmates became 'factory workers'. It appears that Mr. Beck received enough 'public' education to skip the 'factory' and turn his God-given talent into a productive 'profession'. What is the name of the teachers union that Fayette County teachers belong to? Is it powerful? Why are the teacher's salaries so low in Georgia? I've had the opportunity to visit several Fayette County schools. The obvious superior quality of the teaching staff; the cooperation between parents and teachers is certainly part of the reason the students in this county are scoring well academically. From the information that I get from the media in this county - many students here are accepted in outstanding schools of higher education - and GRADUATE from those schools. Not bad for 'public' schools. . .geared to producing factory workers.

They knew exactly what I was asking about when I said I was looking for the history of public education and the so-called European influence on higher education.
The Clayton State educated library person found 2 books for me and oddly enough they were both checked out so I await their return at which time they will be loaned to me.

I did in fact attend Harvard - and Yale as well, but since it was simply for football games I doubt if I am considered a card-carring elite by the John Kerrys of the world. My public education was good enough to go to college and graduate school and avoid the factory.

Our offspring did fairly well in Fayette County schools and I can't fault the system or the teachers - although that was 15 years ago and I am told things have deteriorated.

I googled the question I had about teacher unions in Fayette County - they are not represented by a union. About 38% of the reported school budget for 2009 was allocated to teacher salaries. I'll google the history of 'public' education. I realize that the south had a 'unique' program - and the formation of many private academies after the school integration mandate had an effect on recent 'public' education here in Georgia. Our national educational system has taken a hit. Our students are not performing academically as well as students in other industrial nations. I'm proud that Georgia is becoming part of the national educational standards program. The state of Georgia has been at the bottom of academic achievement for far too long. California has also not performed well. One improves academic achievement by employing well-prepared outstanding teachers.
I look forward to your findings. Thanks.

This is interesting. Check it out.

I've got nothing against a High School education, but I would not use such a person for their "expert analysis" on the origin and purpose of the public school system. What can they actually tell you with credibility? Heck, he thought GWB developed FEMA detention camps.

"Glenn overcame a difficult childhood but ultimately graduated from high school in Bellingham, Washington in 1982. Though he graduated, Glenn himself admits that he "spent more time in the parking lot than in class." Glenn never attended college."

I'm sure you won't like the above link, Robert. If you can dispute the fact that Glenn did not go to college, I'm all ears.

You may as well reference the GOP leader, Rush Limbaugh, to make your educational argument:

"Because of his parents' desire to see him attend college, he enrolled in Southeast Missouri State University but left the school after two semesters and one summer. According to his mother, "he flunked everything", and "he just didn't seem interested in anything except radio."

But I would not recommend using Glenn Beck for any intellectual posturing.

Nope. Wouldn't use the FEMA camp guy if I were you.

But he does have a great musical remix.

How did highly educated folks vote last national election? And how did those with less formal education vote? Do you seriously want to suggest dumb voters vote for Obamas and really really smart ones listen to Beck and vote for Palins? Aren't you blinded by what you wish reality was.

Here is an excerpt from a Brookings Institute voting demographics analysis linked below:

"Some part of this decline in GOP margins can be attributed to the voting proclivities of new, younger whites (Obama actually carried whites 18-29 by 10 points, the only age group among whites he carried) and white college grads, who continued their long term political migration toward the Democratic Party."

Yes, Robert, the dumbing down trend is firmly swinging the way of the GOP anti-climate change, pro abstinence only crowd. Sorry.

A 2008 election breakdown of demographics by The Brookings Institute.

Where are higher literacy rates experienced Robert Morgan? The red state southeast or The Northeast, West Coast, and urban areas? Be honest with yourself, if you can. The party of "death panels," "socialist Marxist govt takeovers," "Revolution," "secession," and "we're just regular old real Americans" does not for a second want highly educated voters who will look beyond their bumper sticker slogans. Funny you would mention Beck

Hack

KKK(that's Kernal Kevin King) misses the entire point about the foundation of public education and goes after one of the messengers (Beck), ignores the other (Boortz) and somehow gets Limbaugh into it - probably because he doesn't have a college education, as I suppose the KKK does.

Then you advance the argument that the blue states are where the really smart people live. I guess maybe they should each get 2 votes because they know better than the rest of us poor dumbed down southern hicks and midwestern farmers.

Again, I was pointing out that the 2 radio hosts had interesting bits on the same subject last month. I didn't say they had an expert analysis. I said more research would be in order.

Pretty juvenile response there Kevin. Let's forget I mentioned those 2 radio hosts and pretend their names are Smith and Jones and move on to the real subject - specifically that in the early 1900's the country needed factory workers and the public school system was either created or refined to produce loyal subjects who would work in factories and not have any greater ambition. After all that slavery thing that was working so well for 150 years was overturned by some President (a Republican, I think) and workers were in short supply. As I said, some research is needed and there are no doubt some books that can help us understand the basis for the dumbed down, politically correct system we have now.

I do think the dumbing down of public education has infected colleges and universities as well. You prove that point with your Brookings quote "......and white college grads, who continued their long term political migration toward the Democratic Party."

up your NEOCON !!!!!! But what should I expect from a non racist mental powerhouse that thinks "man" is a euphemism for "empty suit?"

What you did was expound on the absurd argument that democrats want stupid voters that will do their bidding. You then admitted you had done no research, and had the nerve to reference material delivered by a guy who thought President Bush had FEMA detention camps.

If less education somehow supports the democratic party, why do electoral demographics not bare this out?

If you don't like the FACT that your precious Red States have lower literacy rates than the Blue States you loath, you might want to do something about it. But judging from the "un-researched" 100% pure cow manure that you so freely propagate here amongst your fellow NEOCONS, it is readily apparent that the foothold you have at the bottom rung of the intellectual ladder is where you are quite comfortable to remain. And that is quite acceptable to me.

Hack

Guess you didn't like the remix.

Beck debunked the Camps... In fact the Alex Jones people hate him for it..

Don't you remember Darths blog on Beck saying he is shrill for the Government when he did it..

So if you are going to use talking points at least use the ones that are correct..

"GLENN BECK, HOST: A little over a month ago, I had a call. It was like the billionth call from a woman who asked me about FEMA prison camps. And I said to my producer, "Can we just please debunk this or prove it to be accurate?"

I kind of snapped on the lady because, honestly, I'm sick of seeing the e-mails about the FEMA camps. I got something from friends that was about Nancy Pelosi and it was completely bogus.

Look, let's just stick to the facts. There is enough truth out there that pisses people off. We don't need all the lies.

So we set out to get the truth. And quite honestly, I don't believe that there are FEMA concentration camps. I think that sounds kind of nuts. But if there are, I'll show them to you. If there aren't, I'll show that to you."

Transcript form his show April 6 2009.. He went on and completely DEBUNKED the MYTH....I can link the video if you want me to..

He reported extensivly on the MYTH of FEMA Camps..

You can bang Beck on a lot of stuff but the FEMA crap is just that CRAP...

btw.. on the Red/Blue deal.. I would rather be in a RED state if all heck broke lose. Red State prople can survive without depending on the Government.. You guys will be our dinner.. I bet you edumacated folks are wiel tenda.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

I provided or you end up wrong.....again. Glenn Beck is like Sarah and the bridge to nowhere. he was for it before he was against it. This isn't me talking. Listen to his own words.

"I wanted to debunk them.Well we've now done research on them for several days. I can't debunk them." "there's something going on in our country, ain't good." "These are actual prisons that were built under the Bush administration, and they were built specifically for a couple of reasons. One was for a massive influx of illegal immigrants that we would have to jail. Now they're sitting there empty."

Steve, did you notice how he states:

1) He can't debunk the story.

2) He doesn't say they were allegedly built. He says they "Were built under the Bush administration."

3) He then tells us WHY they were built.

4) He then asks WHY we are not jailing illegals from California in these FEMA prisons.

Now, Steve, I don't know about you, but if I'm investigating a story of FEMA camps to debunk, I don't tend to ask why we aren't putting illegals in these camps. Because, at that point, I wouldn't know whether they existed or not.

Steve, you will have better luck trying to tap dance around Joe the Plumber slamming Palin than you will trying to convince anyone Glenn Beck has spoken an honest word in his life. But he appreciates your patronage, I'm sure.

Hack

You don't get satire do you?

You obviously have to do a little creative mix and matching.. He did say it.. but... They do exist.. JUST LIKE HE SAID.. What you conveniently leave out here is that he did not SAY THEY WHERE FEMA CAMPS.. He pointed out that these where the "CAMPS" that the Jones crowd uses in their literature..He also said that he thought they did not exist.. He had thought that the pics where made up.. That's when he said he could not debunk them.. Why don't you listen to your link yourself...

Here is the Interview w/John Meigs Debunking the Myth ON APRIL 7th

And a VERY LIBERAL website Giving Glenn Credit for Debunking the MYTH One of yours Kevin

"When he wasn't complaining about us mean liberal bloggers yesterday, Glenn Beck actually did a very good thing on his Fox News show: He completely eviscerated the conspiracy theories about supposed "FEMA concentration camps" that have been a favorite of the right-wing lunatic fringe for some time now.

It is in fact an impressive and thorough debunking of the rumors, led by Jim Meigs of Popular Mechanics, who's very good at this kind of work. Meigs, as it happens, concludes that these theories originated in the 1990s with the Patriot/militia movement. (Go to Beck's site to read more.)

As it happens, that's exactly what we reported at C&L three weeks ago. And in fact, much of this information has been available for some time, though you would never know it from listening to the right-wing conspiracists.

Still, Beck deserves credit for his forthright reportage of the matter. Indeed, it seemed an apology for having unfairly accused him of promoting these theories seemed like it might be in order."Crooksandliars

The April 6th date is important why? That was when he presented the facts..

Your little "factoids" where during the run up to that date.. You know he puts on a "show" right? You know about "teasers" right?

Your argument doesn't stand up Hack.. Face it.. you were caught I have proved it just move on..

Here is a few more...

Beck debunks FEMA Myth.. Link

And this gem from ALex Jones.. Disinfo operative Glenn Beck’s shabby and comical attempt to “debunk” FEMA camps was theater of the absurd at its most revealing.

The actual Transcript Hack.. You might want to read this..

and more FEMA crackpots.. Yep Beck is on their side..

Had enough yet Kevin?

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

When Glenn Beck said:

"I wanted to debunk them. I can't."

He REALLY meant he could.

When he said, "There is something going on in our country; ain't good."

and "These are actual prisons that were built,"

and that we are headed toward "totalitarianism."

He didn't mean it.

When he himself called them "FEMA prisons" and (air quotes) "FEMA camps,"

He didn't really mean that.

And when the woman asks, "There are FEMA camps all over the country" and then Glenn says, "Yes" and then he says this was all put in place in August, he was just saying stuff.

And the fact he said they DID exist; that he didn't say alleged. The fact that he held all possible opinions on this issue is just immaterial.

Well, once again, you have proven that your logic cannot be argued with.

Genius I say! Genius!

And this was after days of research, as he said.
Hack

I just showed you the info.. Proved beyond a SHADOW of a doubt... and still you just want to smear.

You can cherry pick anything.. You can say the Bible approves of suicide.

“Judas went out and hanged himself”.. The Bible said “Go thou and do likewise”...

It's called Cherry picking.. Or in today’s term TAKING OUT OF CONTEXT.. Listen to the link YOU provided... READ THE TRANSCRIPT.. He clearly DID NOT SAY they were FEMA CAMPS..

He clearly DEBUNKED THE ENTIRE FEMA CAMP myth...

But yet you still persist.. I guess you still believe that the forged documents of Bush's National Guard papers are real..

YOU and Dan Rather and the rest of the Truthers.

I'm not like sniffles I am not going to call you a liar and demand you admit it.. Anyone that reads these threads will know the truth when they see it.. Good enough for me.

When did you become such a smear artist? You went after Palin used every talking point you could.. You went after her kids...
You went after the teaparty.. Insinuating they were all NAZIS and RACIST.. Which I guess makes me one btw.. You go after the blogger but hardly ever the facts presented..

You go after Beck.. Whos next? What happened?

You used to debate the issues.

I understand Massachusetts was probably a shock to your system and a little creeping doubt.. that little sick feeling in the pit of your stomach is starting.

But just smearing everything and anything is beneath you.. Just a little Life Coaching.. Free of Charge.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

quoting your words to be considered a smear artist. How to break your rant a tant tant down.

Beck: I quoted him above. Exact quotes. If he was making these statements to debunk FEMA camps, what did he mean by, "We are headed towards totalitarianism?"

Palin: I used Joe the plumber's words. I used her own staffer's words. I have used her own words. Again, if your words thrown back at you feel like a smear, you are probably speaking nonsense. Take your issues up with her staffers and Joe the Plumber. I'm just agreeing with them.

I NEVER said ALL Tea Partiers are Nazis and racists. You can be a bit overdramatic with those generalizations, my friend. And I think a bit sensative too. What I write about the Tea Party is rooted in facts; like the law suits differing factions have against eachother in florida. Sorry if it doesn't read well. But you guys paid Tancredo to come speak, and spoke he did.

Defend his words if you think we should have civics tests at the polling place and people who are there to say, "You can't vote. You failed our test."

Defend it, Steve.

At any rate, I love getting under your fingernails like a splinter of wood, but you'll forget I was there by next week, and we'll be back to sharing Youtubes.

Cheers bro.
Hack

ps: Care to comment on the fact that we in Fayette County did not support school vouchers when we had the chance to? You came over to this blog? Might as well contribute.

Let's just say there's hope for you yet.. At least you engage and don't run.. That is a quality I admire.. Too many drive by blog and never defend their postions.. They just show up and Blah Blah over everything and leave.

Cheers back atcha mate..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Even when you pitch high and inside !

Hack

Based on his statements, KK appears to be only about 16 or 17 years old and has what I refer to as "little ceasar syndrome".
When he can't win an argument, he tries to intimidate the messenger with a bunch of rantings that make absolutely no sense.
Now he's accused me of being someone else that used to post here becaused I dared challenge his precious Obama's stance on school choice. He appeared to be attempting to channel Obama by holding his own make believe "beer summit" and attempted to bring you and I into his twisted dimentia.

He appears to be just a tad unhinged and in need of serious professional help. I sincerely hope that he gets the help he needs.

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Have you?

Yes, I am 16, and you, the adult, are RUNNING TO CAL screaming, "Help! Help! I've got a 16 yr old on my case!" Funny stuff.

So, you feel Obama doesn't want children to learn because of the lack of school vouchers in D.C. (I'm sure you care so much about inner city kids LOL), but you did not have the fortitude to talk to the issue that we didn't support school vouchers for kids right here in Fayette County. Basically you have an intellectually dishonest false concern for inner city kids that does not hold up under the scrutiny of a 16 year old blogger .

Too bad for you. did you know Obama is still the President? How does that make you feel, Joe? How does it make you feel?

Mr. Beverly, a little MORE help please. Please? Puuhhhleeeessseee???"

Hack

Is that you???

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Kevin is not 16 he is an adult and a Pilot for an Airline.. So he has to be pretty solid. He either is a Progressive with an agenda.. Or a Liberal and is simply an ideologue.

He firmly believes Obama can do no wrong.. I understand that.. I had the same feeling about Bush the first 4 years.. With every attack from the left I was pushed further into his corner.. My problem is I'm a Thinker.. I have never been a Party follower so when I started to really look at what Bush was doing.. I left the corner and became a very loud critic.

Hack may or may not ever come out of the corner. It's up to him. He can either be a Party "Hack" or he can step back and see with open eyes what is happening to America..

I have hope for him..still.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Before he was elected, many here stated that if elected, his feet would be held to the fire for change. That is happening. I don't think anyone over 16 believed ANYONE can do 'no wrong'. It's been interesting watching things unfold since the election of Brown and the Tea Party Express. ($500+ for registration?) Critics are an important part of the democratic process. Constructive criticism is needed - and hopefully being heard and acted upon. We'll see.

You said it best there, and that applies on a national level all the way up to the President and all the way down to the local level of PTC politics of Steve Brown and Don Haddix.

It's real easy to be the "outsider" throwing the bricks, but sooner or later, you have to accept responsibility and own it. You have to "run it, make things happen, show you can manage something." Obama is like the last big "outsider" candidate who was Jimmy Carter who also didn't have a clue either once being elected and couldn't do anything and failed miserably.

Congrats Obama! You got elected and made history! Now do something besides hiding behind Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and expecting them to advance your half-baked and not-thought-out-whatsoever agenda when you are way too gutless and Clinton-like to do it yourself. Actually, Clinton stuck his neck out a few times so maybe that's unfair to good 'ol Bill. The "Progressives" are already sick of the false promises of Obama and you can count on the Repubs to oppose everything since they stand for nothing in the first place besides "I love Jesus and I love spending your money and also taking away your rights but we're better than those liberals. Look at my wide-stance! "

Anti-incumbent fever? Yeah, it's about time already. Obama got elected in part due to it; now he's going to be a "victim" of it since he's now indeed the biggest part of it.

We'll see.

Anti-incumbent fever is about to spread no one is safe. America is slowly coming to grips with the debt and seeing that we cannot continue on the path we are on..

And instead of seeing this Obama says they are just not running down that path fast enough.. That Americans really want more of his ideas.

Madness

China is dumping our T-bills at a record rate.. Jeff C said it would never happen.. I told him it would and well here it comes..

China warned us about our debt.. and what did this administration do..?

Come out and say the Stimulus worked and we want more of it..
Project spending to rise exponentially..

Pushing all the while forward on Healthcare and Cap and Trade.. guaranteeing that our economy will collapse in on itself.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Sure it cost $500 to register for the Tea Party convention. They had to pay Sarah Palin $100,000 to speak. They had to get the money from somewhere.

Isn't it odd that her message resonates with those so interested in "Change"?

And yes critics are an important part of the process. I'd say we have a whole country full of critics right now. If Obama doesn't clean house around him and get on a tax cutting program, he is going to be tagged for his party's failure in November and his last 2 years will be totally meaningless. Worst thing in the world for a pompous egomaniac is to be ignored.

I wonder if anyone would pay him $100,000 to give a speech.

Where were the 'thousands' to hear Mrs. Palin? (A reported 700 attended) She's being 'ignored'/ridiculed big time. . . throughout the world. Doesn't everyone have $500 to pay to hear her? (During the worst economic period in our recent history? . . .when all we have to do is turn on TV?) Evidently you make more that $250,000 a year. I don't - and appreciate the tax cut. Congratulations on your income - and thanks for helping 95% of us out!

DM just saying.. Hard to ignore that. Not to mention the fundraising she gets..

Not too many ridicule that..

I find it amazing that Liberals can so vilify an American Citizen doing what she thinks is right for America.

But I guess it's helped her. Her poll numbers are almost as good as Obama and she gets all the Bad press.. Go figure..

btw.. 95% of Americans DID NOT GET A TAX CUT.. You cannot get a tax cut if you have no tax liability.. Almost 46% do not have one.. so they got no tax cut..

And do you know anyone that smokes? Are they rich? They got a big tax increase.. Tax CREDITS ARE NOT TAX CUTS DM..

AND YOU HAVE TO CLAIM THE TAX CREDITS ON YOUR 2009 TAXES AS INCOME!!!! YOU WILL PAY A TAX ON YOUR MYTHICAL TAX CUTS..

Don't you feel special.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Many have already gotten their checks from filing their 2009 tax return. I suggest you get a knowledgeable tax preparer that knows the current tax codes. (But each individual has different deductibles, etc. - so I appreciate what I have - and you can still complain.) When the conservative element in this country buy a book that would cost $24+ and 'sell' it for $4.99 - it's possible that it would be a #1 best seller. What it has done is confirm that the lady is a little light upstairs - but may be well meaning. To the extremes in this country - Obama and Palin are the butts of many jokes. You guys will continue to 'love' Palin - and that's OK too - guys are like that.

Not to mention the fundraising she gets.

Now where is that money going? Certainly didn't go to the Tea Party Patriots! Check it out!

Hopefully KK is 29 and close to conversion before 2012. It would be a shame for him to have to spin a full 4 years of Obama into something anyone could vote for. That CNN poll is pretty clear. When the numbers are that bad when seen through the CNN filter - major problems.

Prezbo thinks the solution to all this is to go on tour to prop up Democrats in the Senate who could lose their seats this fall. I'm sure they wish he would stay away - same as the Republicans felt about Bush in 2008.

Bayh's quitting was huge. More will follow.

The television/online audience realizes that the president is doing more than propping up Democrats who are up for election. Did you see the question and answer session with Republicans? Let's see if Democrats and Republicans can work for the American people!! If not, they are in trouble in November - both parties!!

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Oh don't get me wrong Kevin spins faster then a frog in a blender.. I mean it really takes an artist to take away from this thread that Beck really BELIEVES in FEMA camps..

I think alot of Kevins "charm" is that he strokes the flames and then see what burns.. I always rise to it.. because that's who I am..

But when the leather hits the highway his arguments are as clear as mud..

It's like the vote issue.. There is no Constitutional RIGHT to vote.. So an educated voter is an informed voter and is a asset to America..

Someone who biggest thought for today is how much beer is in the fridge.. well lets just say I would rather they stay home on election day as well..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

I can't see how anyone that unstable and unhinged could pass the psych test necessary to be allowed to pilot a commercial airliner. If it were up to me, I wouldn't hire him to scrub the toilets much less fly the thing.

I just hope he doesn't fly for Airtran because I fly them all the time and the thought of him possibly being the pilot would drive me to drive.

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I'm amazed that since I provided the link to how Republicans right here felt about a very local and very real school voucher proposal, you two empty avatars have turned to focus on me and my age or politics or career. I'm flattered, and I find it clear that your voucher concerns were clearly not rooted in any desire to see inner city kids educated with tax dollars. Too easy gents.

Joe, when faced with tough questions, you chose the cowards way out.....again.

Hack

You are correct in that the good citizens as a whole (R's and D's) decided it was not in their best interest to allow kids from Clayton County into the vaunted Fayette District. The problem was not political, but economically biased. Remember that figure spent by citizens over and above?

I would offer that the issuance of vouchers is but a temporary measure, a crutch to allow elected officials to say they did something when they know full well the entire public education system is broken. Local boards have the authority and wherewithall to fix it merely by setting standards and then upholding them. Talking a good game simply will not remedy the problem.

The quality of education/schools was a primary factor in both your and my decision to reside where we do. Additionally, neither you nor I would purposely deny a child from any inner city or ill managed school district a quality education.

Good to hear from you.
The issue here was never really vouchers. We all know that.

The issue I had was this:

Here is a blog about Atlanta Schools that Joe Dirt tried to turn into a "Obama doesn't want kids to learn" blog. And he used the very weak issue of vouchers. Now, most people here just ignore Joe coughy, but every now and then you have to call a loon a loon. Why do conservatives feel so comfortable ignoring "Why does Obama not want children to learn," but they'll show up to debate just who was for or against vouchers? I'm confused.

As for Robert and Joe who have returned a couple of times but failed to address vouchers as voted on here in FAYCO: Guys, FIGHT LIKE A GIRL WHY DONTCHA!!

Fight like Denise Connor (before she went crazy). When she made a wildly indefensible claim like "Obama doesn't want kids to learn," I'd grab her by her pony tail. But then she'd reach down and grab the buttons on my 501s. So I'd reach down and across with my free hand, and grab her thumb so she couldn't apply pressure. But then she'd stomp on my instep. But I'd sweep her supporting leg.

And at the end of it all, we sat up, dusted ourselves off, and laughed at our fresh bruises.

Denise (before she went crazy), S Lindsey, you, Mike, Mudcat.....well, pretty much everyone but joe coughy and on rare instance Robert, will stay to defend your points.

I've yet to hear a defense of vouvhers or voter demographics by education level from Robert or Joe. This leads me to believe they are just here for the coffee.

Cheers, Mike, and thanks for stepping up where they could not.

Hack

Hey nut-job, at least spell my name right.

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Since when is language like this acceptable on the citizen site?

Furthermore, it does nothing to address the issue that it is very apparent that Mr. Obama does not want the less fortunate to have the same quality education that his own children are getting and that he is beholden to the teachers unions.

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

He does seem touchy and a bit defensive, probably not in the mood to deeply analyze anything right now. November 2010 is only months away and he may be concerned about that revolt. But others with cooler heads may have a meaningful contribution to the discussion.

I do think there are 2 different issues:
1. Is Obama an elitist hypocrite for not sending his kids to public schools? Answer - yes, but no more so than the all the other hypocrites in Washington. I guess when the Dems pulled their federal funding from DC schools that made him decide private schools were better.
2. My original question which was simply - Could we learn anything about the Dems unholy alliance with the teachers union and other strange behavior by Dems if we investigated and learned more about the background of how and why public education became the norm in this coutry? You know, kinda learn from history. Odd that KKK, I mean KK would go off the deep end about a simple excursion into the past. Wonder if he's concerned we will find out about Woodrow Wilson and his hand in all this. Ya think?

"probably not in the mood to deeply analyze anything right now."

Umm.... Robert? You have told us twice you didn't analyze or research what you wrote. This must be the logic version of finger hand cuffs. And darned if I didn't put a finger in each end.

You are pushing un-researched BS that democrats want voters to be stupid, but you still won't acknowledge the relationship between voter education and how they cast their votes? Are you serious, because if you're just talking out of your rear I'll get out of the way and let the written flatulence continue.

Hack

That a "gentleman" you banned for language (fred garvin) reincarnated himself, but is still begging you to intervene for him? He's still mad that you didn't ban Jeff C. for telling him "Kiss my ###." I take it he doesn't like my picture, but he's groovy with the whole "KKK" thing. At any rate, if you feel I crossed the line in linking a horses rear, I accept your judgment.

As a side note, I met your son in law on the job. Great guy.

Cheers,

Hack

What a shame. You ever gonna write that letter to the editor we've been waiting for?

Hack

Kevin King, I don’t mean to interfere with your fun but it looks to me like the local bully’s of our cyber playground are taking your lunch money away. You may want to consider changing tactics.

1) What did Glenn Beck mean by "We are headed towards totalitarianism" in his debunking of FEMA camps?

2) If opposing school vouchers means one "does not want children to learn," Why did we not want children to learn here in FAYCO when vouchers were on the ballot to help Clayton Co. children?

3) Why would democrats want poorly educated voters when electoral demographics show that higher education levels trend towards democrats?

I'll give you my lunch money if you can get those answers out of Lindsey, Kawfi, and Morgan respectively.

Enjoy your lunch .

Hack

Hey nut-job. Talk to the hand. I have no desire or obligation to respond to unhinged kooks. And give gort back his lunch money!!

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

-

1. Glen Beck and FEMA camps - I have no idea what you are talking about or what it has to do with the history of public education other than the fact that Glen made a few points about the history of public education on his radio show. FEMA camps? What? I think you just got distracted when you heard his name and decided to attack the messenger, as any good liberal lapdog would.

2. Vouchers in Fayette County - Not aware this was ever a ballot question, but if it was and we the voters rejected it solely for Clayton County kids using their vouchers here, that would be discrimination (not racism as some will squeal) but pure and simple discrimination by those who don't want their kid's school infiltrated by thugs who will disrupt the learning experience and probably lower the SAT scores since we stupidly make everyone take them. I remember only college prep kids took them when I was in school about 100 years ago.

3. Higher education equals a vote for Democrats? Are you kidding me? The lady who voted for Obama who thought she wouldn't have to make house or car payments anymore. Is that who you mean? Or is it the college professors who have 3 degrees and couldn't think their way out of a wet paper bag - or is it a burning aper bag? Eggheads in blue states who can't do anything (so they teach) but want to tell us how to behave are the problem. Come to think of it, some of those over-educated fools are in Washington as cabinet members or White House staff . One is even President.

And don't expect Joe to offer an actual thought. His point was indefensible and he knows it.

To your point that democrats may somehow want less educated voters.

which party tends to attack the "liberal elite?" Are they going after the educated crowd?

When republicans try to make an issue out of Barack Obama dining on arugula; when they say he is arrogant and talks down to "small town hicks," are they going after intellectuals, Robert?

Are you basing your opinion on one voter who made a Youtube entry? Both sides have those.

According to New York Times polling, 53% of college + voters voted for Obama as compared to 45% voting McCain. Just at face value, Sarah Palin did not have a target audience of Ivy League School grads, with her folksy, hopey changy talk.

Hack

Hey nut-job (KK)-

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 111th Congress - 1st Session

58 senators voted against a better education for Breanna, De'Andre, Paul, Fransoir, Sakeithia, Dominique, and Rashawn.

DC Opportunity Scholarship Program: Kids Appeal to President Obama

Shame on them!

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

"I have no desire or obligation to respond to unhinged kooks."

You know, Joe, I'm learning that absolutely nothing you say can be taken seriously. Talk to the hand?

The question you still dodge: Why did all of Fayette County vote "against a better education for Breanna, De'Andre, Paul, Fransoir, Sakeithia, Dominique, and Rashawn?"

Why, Joe? Why?
Hack

"I have no desire or obligation to respond to unhinged kooks."

You know, Joe, I'm learning that absolutely nothing you say can be taken seriously. Talk to the hand?

The question you still dodge: Why did all of Fayette County vote "against a better education for Breanna, De'Andre, Paul, Fransoir, Sakeithia, Dominique, and Rashawn?"

Why, Joe? Why?
Hack

I've provided irrefutible proof that 58 Senators (mostly democrat) voted against better education for inner-city school children.

Provide proof the "all of Fayette County" voted against vouchers.

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Because I'm sure you will tell us how the DC voucher program was a "better" education for DC kids, even though the GAO and Dept of Education disagreed with you. And how to pay for the $14 million DC program, Joe. I thought we were trying to balance budgets.

Hack

“With time running out on the DC experiment, and proof in hand of its success, Obama and Senate Democrats actively prevented the public from learning the truth about this program designed to pull poor minority children from failing schools until they had successfully terminated it.”

Democrats Delay Release of Report Showing Success of DC Voucher Program Until After Senate Can Vote to Kill It..LINK

Now, it appears that the Obama administration and the U.S. Senate purposely kept the results of a Congressionally-mandated study showing the benefits of the Washington, DC voucher program from becoming public until after they had managed to spike the program due to its supposed “lack of effectiveness.”

Evaluation of the DC Opportunity Scholarship Program Impacts After Three Years..Link to report

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Look at the report. A tiny increase in reading skills by some and no increase in math. Plus, those offered the vouchers who didn't use them improved the same. What a crock!

Scan down a way and look at the reasons those offered the vouchers and didn't use them gave and you will see the problem encapsulated in a nutshell:

25% of the children didn't like private school.

11% thought the work was too hard.

11% said it was too hard to get the children to the school.

7% thought the discipline was to strict.

Basically, there are 54% of the people were not using the vouchers and complaining for reasons that if I had brought them up to my parents, they would have laughed in my face.

Junk parenting is the problem. Vouchers aren't going to help that.

Parenting is the issue.. No matter what you give some it will never be enough. Welfare, Healthcare and Universal Education will see the same results.

But on the voucher issue.. The Report did show improvement in several areas.. One of which is safety. But that's not really important to learning...

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

show us how The Bush voucher experiment produced a "better education?"

"I've provided irrefutible proof that 58 Senators (mostly democrat) voted against better education for inner-city school children."

The Dept of Education is on record saying that they saw no difference in the performance of voucher kids versus public school kids.

Opposition to voucher experiment.

More opposition.

In reading this link, The GAO did not find much "A" in the program's accountability.

So, Joe? Where's the beef? And how would it be paid for even if it was not all in your head? You do realize it COSTS $14 million per year for 1900 DC area students to perform no better than their public school counterparts, right?

Hack

OK, you made a point. But name calling? This site, while somewhat sophomoric, does have standards.

but let's just put the nonsense to rest.

Joe is a rabid opponent to all things democratic and all things Obama. I challenge anyone to find any support he has offered to a democratic idea since his guy left The White House.

But NOW, he, along with Republican Senators Ensign (NV), Demint (SC), and Kyl (Az) think that we Americans, who are Taxed Enough Already should spend millions of dollars pumping Federal money into private and/or Religious Schools. These men who have opposed affirmative action programs now, if you listen to "joe", want tax money to help poor "Shequita."

And "Joe" is SHOCKED that Republicans who have voted against every democrat-sponsored piece of legislation they could got no help from democrats in their attempt to funnel tax money to religious schools. Even REPUBLICANS voted against this thinly disguised legislation.

This quote from one of the bill's sponsors, Jim Demint of SC, shows you EXACTLY what he thinks of minority students in The Distict of Colombia:

“If you send a kid to [public] school in D.C., chances are that they will end up in a gang rather than graduating,” DeMint said.

And as to this voucher program that "joe" is wetting his pants about, reports issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2007 and 2008 show that the academic achievement of D.C voucher students is no better than that of students attending D.C. public schools."

And furthermore,

A November 2007 report by the General Accounting Office criticized the program, finding that “accountability and internal control were inadequate.”

Here is a link to the opposing view on this Bush-era no bang for the tax buck voucher program.

And as WE ALL KNOW, Mike, Vouchers are a republican agenda item, and republicans did not support their own idea here when it was in their face at the polls.

Conservatives did not mix their words in uniformly opposing vouchers when they could have supported their own brainchild.

"Everybody stand up no or we will be redistributing your wealth to the less fortunate Entitled citizens of Georgia."

As Cal stated, "The soft underbelly of vouchers exposed."

This waste of taxpayer money known as the DC voucher experiment, supported by men who feel public school students in DC are future gang bangers, has been used simply as a tool by "joe" to pass his time and fully develop his hatred of our president.

And he knows it.

Hack

is against School Choice...

I mean really why would they want to be held accountable..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

You are breaking alot of Fayette County windows there brother. The NEA and Fayette County have the exact same defacto stance on vouchers. We didn't support them. they don't support them. And, for someone who has railed against deficits, you are sure ready to spend millions more tax dollars on education.

Hack

we can cut a few million from Pig Crap Smell studies.. and few Hundred Thousand from Mormon Cricket sex lives studies.. Maybe a few more Million from Wine Trains in NAPA Valley.. and VIOLA you have the money to fund education programs for underprivileged kids..

I find it funny Liberals would rather protect the UNIONS while Conservatives would rather protect the KIDS.. Go Figure..

Saw an interview this morning from Houston..

The Teachers union was all tore up over the Board wanting to hold them accountable over failing students.. I mean the nerve of parents in Houston wanting their kids to be taught by "good" teachers.. When asked if the Teachers should be held accountable the shocking answer from the UNION.. "NO"

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

"I find it funny Liberals would rather protect the UNIONS while Conservatives would rather protect the KIDS.. Go Figure..

Steve. You didn't touch the how to fund it question. Let me ask you this:

Did we here in Fayette County support School vouchers when it was on the ballot in 2008?

Hack

Did you not notice the reference to EARMARKS.. The BILLIONS spent on pet projects and Earmarks.. could easily fund this program..

and on the local issue.. Sorry I am a Big Picture kind of guy.. Local politics are just that local.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Probably the first time ever . just kidding. I think this shows how easy it is to support concepts, but how hard it is to actually make these programs happen. Think of vouchers as the GOP's public option, and we both can understand the uphill nature of our respective battles.

Have a great day and break out the Nomex and Thinsulate.

Hack

Nut-job is his new nick name. It's nothing personal.

Tell you what; just for you I'll refer to him as "N-J" from now on.

Just be careful that you don't mistakenly strike the key just left of 'N'.

I thought Joe's absence was because he was in class - but school is out! When one needs to denigrate others - it usually is an indication of insecurity on the part of the denigrator. Oh well.

and this is from a website dedicated to Obama's reelection.

It's telling.. Just saying.

"If Palin were to continue her great run of 2008 and mount a good campaign of maverickness who would win in 2012? More news of her has come out of late including her fighting back to the liberal elite media on everything they criticized her on. She even expressed interest n talking to the press more. Most people think she is smart enough, has the people skills, but would she hold up in a debate against Romney to win the Republican Nomination?Yet is she did could she handle Obama in 2012?"

2012 Presidential Election Palin Vs. Obama

Palin (67%, 1,542 Votes)Obama (33%, 769 Votes)Total Voters: 2,311

and yes there are other polls to show the exact opposite..

Not really saying anything here except more prople like her then the left would have you believe..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Eggheads in blue states who can't do anything (so they teach)

. . or the articulate high school graduate who proudly states in public that Native Americans are all 'dead' today? I'm finding that ignorance is apparent in Red and Blue states - and this is why our country for many years has/(and in some parts of the planet) is seen as a military strong/dollar poor country filled with illiterates. Our attitude towards those who have worked hard to learn how to teach others is 'piss-poor'. If you are reading this with ease - THANK A TEACHER!

My teachers in the 1950's and 60's were great and very dedicated. Of course they were from a different generation - the last to have a serious work ethic.

The "teachers" I object to are the college professors with an agenda and the public school teachers who think they work for the teacher's union instead of their principals or alternatively the taxpayers.

And the recycled college eggheads in Washington who want to be social engineers and remake everything using their warped template.

To label the dedicated public school teachers of today as not having a serious work ethic is an attitude that sends the brightest and best to other professions that pay more than the profession of an educator. What a disservice your words do to the dedicated teachers in Fayette County. For over 36 years I had the honor of working with highly principled educators. In all that time, I can count the 'teachers' you describe on one hand. . .and I worked in administration in a UNION state. There were times when the teachers I had the honor to work with ask me to 'break' the contract - so that children could be better served. I didn't - and we brain stormed on how to provide needed services to children without breaking the contract. I do not disagree with your attitude towards 'unions' - in general. . . but your attitude towards today's public school teachers is, in my opinion, abominable.

Since that is the teaching caste that RM seems to be discussing--are college professors the same ilk as a public school kindergarten teacher? I think that Fayette County has a wonderful group of public primary and secondary education teachers. I do not believe that Robert is discussing them, he is discussing college professors. If you insist on treating both groups equally, then I am sure that the local teachers would love the pay of the college professors and the college professors would be dismayed to be lumped in with a teaching group to which they deem themselves superior. So is your experience with "contract breaking" in the local public school arena or the college arena or both?

I'm not familiar with the pay scale of K-12 teachers in comparison with college professors. I would think that a lot would have to do with the experience and academic degrees of both. Many college professors make less than K-12 administrators and/or specialists. In the state where I resided for most of my life, many K-12 teachers acted as guest lecturers at local college campuses. (The pay was nothing to get excited about) I have never broken a contract. Mr. Morgan is very articulate, and was quite clear of the respect that he had for his public school teachers from the 50's and 60's. . .and the Fayette County teachers who taught his children some 15 years ago. He was clear that he felt that the teaching quality might have changed.