PTC council punts big box decision

Thu, 12/17/2009 - 8:17pm
By: John Munford

The new members of the Peachtree City Council will have a hot potato in their laps from Jan. 1.

That's because the current council, which has three outgoing members, voted 4-1 to postpone a decision on a big box special use permit amendment until the first meeting in January.

By that time, Mayor Harold Logsdon and council members Cyndi Plunkett and Steve Boone will be out of office. Plunkett authored the motion and Boone seconded it; Logsdon recorded the sole vote against tabling the request from Capital City Development to increase the size of its largest store from 50,000 square feet to 65,000 square feet.

CCD's Doug McMurrain told The Citizen this week that to compensate for the larger store, he is proposing to limit the two other stores - which could be up to 50,000 square feet each also - to the city's current size limit of 32,000 square feet for retail stores.

The entire site still would be allowed a maximum of 175,000 square feet of retail/commercial space under the proposed revision.

While Kohl’s Department Store remains interested in the proposed 65,000 square foot space, CCD is also courting Academy Sporting Goods and a movie theater, McMurrain said.

McMurrain has said the 65,000-square-foot store would be roughly the same size as the largest grocery store in town.

Incoming Peachtree City Mayor Don Haddix has said he wants to eliminate the “special use permit” process that allows big box stores upwards of 32,000 square feet to be approved by council. Based on that stance, and several other new council members’ stated intentions to avoid big box development, it is unlikely a new council would approve upsizing the store.

It is also unlikely that the new council will be able to “undo” the current agreement that allows CCD to have its 175,000-square-foot shopping center with the largest store being 50,000 square feet.

The site, which abuts Cardiff Park at the rear, is already zoned for general commercial development. It also will be served by a traffic light on Hwy. 54 West that was approved by the Georgia Department of Transportation after the City Council intervened on CCD’s behalf.

That light will be between the existing lights for Planterra Way and MacDuff Parkway. Prior to the city’s intervention, DOT had turned down CCD’s request for the traffic light on two previous occasions.

The city’s development agreement with CCD for the special use permit stated that the city merely would not oppose the traffic light; there was no requirement for the city to petition DOT for the light. But ultimately a split council voted to formally apply to the DOT with a request for the light, which was later granted.

As part of the special use process, the city negotiated a landscaped buffer between the shopping center and Cardiff Park. Many Cardiff Park residents who were vocal during the development vetting process said they preferred Kohl’s because of the company’s history in which it has not abandoned a store that it created; other big box retailers have well-documented records of abandoning stores for new ones.

CCD also has an existing agreement in which it will buy much of Line Creek Drive and all of Line Creek Court from the city in return for a payment of at least $500,000. Should the streets appraise for a higher value, CCD is to provide the rest of the funds in a swap for an equivalent amount of land on the site that abuts the Line Creek Nature Area.

Without the streets, CCD would not have enough room to put any large stores on the site due to the city’s road setback regulations.

The road sale and traffic light drew a firestorm of complaints from citizens who feared the additional traffic light will further worsen traffic flow on Hwy. 54 West, which is already choked with vehicles during commuting times.

Back in 2007, Capital City was working with Kohl’s for an 89,000-square-foot center for the 14.2-acre site. But that plan ultimately was withdrawn by CCD and replaced with a hand-drawn plan that included references to a Hooter’s restaurant and a QT gas station, though it was never said that CCD had inked agreements with either company.

Prior to that, CCD had lined up a potential Lowe’s Home Improvement store at 135,000 square feet along with the Kohl’s, but the Lowe’s fell off the map soon after it was publicized.

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Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 9:30pm.

The guy wanted to screw us up all the way to the end!!!

Vote Republican


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Thu, 12/17/2009 - 8:56pm.

Punting is the wrong term to use in the headline since when you punt the other team gets to return the ball and most likely has a chance to score. That ain't happen' here. The ball has been kicked off the field and into the sewer from which it cannot be recovered.

The new group on council will laugh at this when it comes up next year. Go back to your ski chalet, McMurrain and don't come back. We would rather deal with the new owner of your property - the bank.

Good job council.


Submitted by R. Butler on Fri, 12/18/2009 - 1:31pm.

With respect to outgoing Councilmembers Plunkett and Boone, a commendable decision in allowing for a new council to engage in this matter without further tying their hands.

As for the outgoing mayor, what else can be said. His future political ambitions do not bode well for the ordinary citizens of this state (unless you own shares of Georgia based insurance companies).

And I can only wonder if we will see a hand-drawn plan for a 50,000 square foot combination Hooters, QT Gas and Autozone shopping center plan from CCD come January...

Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 12/19/2009 - 11:34am.

I said last week they would punt it.

However in my opinion the incoming group hoped without hope that the old group would approve it.
Now they have to approve it! And they will eventually after some vote static for a few weeks. At this point, I would approve it.
Nothing going to be built there anyway until the banks start loaning again. This is about improving assets!

If the zoning had never allowed such a jam-up on the Coweta border with umpteen lights, then I would vote no. Can't hurt it now.

We are in for a hundred years of traffic jams from The City line West all the way to the Coweta border and beyond on 54/34.

From PT Parkway North to route 85, on route 74, the same.

TDK is next! Over to Robinson requiring numerous lights on Robinson.

We will make the 85,000 population dreamed of by Cowan/Farr within 15 years.

Anyone over 50 won't give a darn however.

Hoosier Fan's picture
Submitted by Hoosier Fan on Fri, 12/18/2009 - 4:26pm.

I'm satisfied with the decision made by the departing Council on Thursday evening.

As we head into the New Year, it will be interesting to see if McMurrain and others will choose to test the resolve of the new Council, change their plans, or hide in the weeds to wait for a better opportunity.

My encouragement to incoming Mayor Haddix and the new Council: Don’t pick a fight, but don’t blink either. PTC is counting on you.


Submitted by Spyglass on Fri, 12/18/2009 - 9:46am.

Foreclosure on anyone.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sat, 12/19/2009 - 6:34am.

Foreclosure in the commercial sector does not have the stigma and human tragedy of a residential foreclosure where someone loses their house, values of surrounding property plummet. A commercial or retail foreclosure is a cleansing process that allows the new owner a lot more flexibility in setting reasonable rents and accommodating local business that simply cannot afford $25 and $30 per square foot rental rates plus a % of the maintenance fees for the entire center and sometimes a % of their retail sales goes back to the landlord as well. Those rates make it very hard to attract local business or even fill a center. And a half-empty center without a real anchor tenant to attract traffic is no good for anyone.

True, McMurrain loses whatever equity he has in the deal and the bank will take a huge hit, but they took the risk in an overbuilt market that was already in decline when they made the loan, so that's life. Best of all neither the bank or the eventual owners will have the money or see the need to follow through on the $500,000 street purchase, so that mistake goes away.

A new owner will be someone like John Proffit or Mike Hyde who will get the center for 1/2 price - which is the actual value in today's market and fill it up with Dollar Store and Aldi's and other business that serve the community in the context of these recessionary times. Big name and high dollar retailers are not going to be able to stay open - especially after another poor Christmas season this year.

Next on the auction block after McMurrain - The Avenues.


Submitted by Spyglass on Sat, 12/19/2009 - 8:34am.

with your assessment of this situation. Not sure half price is what we are talking about here. Not sure it's best to punt the 1 "big box" they asked for (all the while giving up 2 others) into Coweta County.

Not sure your thoughts of another Dollar Store and Aldi suit this area like you seem to think. I'm also not sure the City needs to be maintaining the run down street that currently sits on this property.

Where do you get your info on your shot at The Avenues?

Unfortunately, it looks like 3 terms of PTC Mayors without much forward thinking. NO NO NO isn't any way to be Mayor, in my humble opinion. Not even listening is even worse.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sun, 12/20/2009 - 7:31am.

The facts, however, are very clear. Banks are in full-fledged panic mode dumping property before the Feds close them or merge them with someone else. Just to clarify what that means to a bank, all the investors who bought bank stock lose 100% of their investment. Not covered by the FDIC, not converted to another bank's stock, nothing, no value at all. The investors are all the Directors (usually at a $100,000 plus per Director (that's how they buy their seats on the Board). Other investors are all their friends who bought $20-25,000 worth of stock for a sure-fired 600% return (they were told) using their hard-earned IRA's. And of course the top 2 or 3 guys at the bank have to take the blame by getting fired and losing their retirement benefits - since that is most always given in bank stock.

So, the banks do everything they can to avoid having the key people lose their investment and if that means dumping a property for half price, so be it. Of course that determines the appraised value of the surrounding property and begins the cycle where everyone geys hurt, but that is the last thing the bankers care about.

Of course the people with cash and in a position to buy at half price are out there sitting and waiting. It is not fair to call them vultures, but it is a good description of sitting and waiting for something they know is going to happen. Only mystery is when. I'm guessing like every one else, but McMurrain's stuff will be taken back next year - probably in the Spring ad the 50 cent fire sale by the bank - June or July. The Avenues (all of them) will take longer, but it will be huge and will start with a lousy Christmas season. Hopefully I'm wrong about that and a decent Christmas keeps them in the game for a year, but not much longer because come January, tenants will cut their losses and run and they will be very difficult to replace at the extremely high rents. So, rent concessions will begin, payments to the lender will fall behind, the developer will try to raise more capital from the private sector (commercial bank lending is controlled by Obama and he's big on getting fat cat real estate developers to fail, so no funds available there). None of that will work for long, so let's project The Avenues going on the block in September.

Do not expect anything but talk from PTC mayor or council. They are just like the last 3 - know nothing about real world market situations and have no power to intervene even if they did know something. In fact no one really has the power to stop this once it starts rolling downhill - and boy o boy, has it ever started downhill.


Submitted by Bonkers on Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:19am.

I agree 100% with the banker statements.
How can that be?

Now, if you will also agree that the NY stock markets are also as bad an investment as were these crooked banks; they are run by computer trading these days and the most losers are those of us who gamble a few shares at a time. They can run it up and down at any time for a quick profit.
Would it be OK with you if Obama regulates these dudes to protect some of us?
That is not socialism; that is regulated capitalism!
I don't know about "The Avenue." I don't know who owns it, nor how much local banks have invested.
I do know it is a fake in some ways--all bound up in a small cow pasture with limited parking and fake snob appeal. Can't see Million books making it; Ted's; weird women's clothing stores; and a fancy women's treatment place!

It looks more suited as a car lot!

Submitted by Spyglass on Sun, 12/20/2009 - 10:48am.

I've lost money, I have friends who have lost BIG money. We both have also made money in good times.

Nothing at all wrong with a little debate on the issues. It seems we agree on more than we disagree.

I hope you and yours have a nice Holiday....

Submitted by Bonkers on Sun, 12/20/2009 - 11:21am.

Kinda like Vegas, isn't it? They are the ony winners. They make 3% of the gross all of the time.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Mon, 12/21/2009 - 7:48am.

If you are talking about bankers (I'm never sure with you) and their gross, it is well over 20% and approaches 30% if you were to calculate the overdraft fees. late fees, convenience fees, etc. One former banker told hubby that they made their monthly salaries for everyone in the branch just with those fees. Probably no more, but back in the good old days that must of been pretty sweet.

I do know a lot of bank workers who have managed to keep their jobs even though the bank changed names and they had to move to a new branch to make it look like new people were coming in. I guess that gives the customer a feeling of change and hope.


Submitted by Bonkers on Mon, 12/21/2009 - 9:32am.

Vegas gambling runs on 3%. They pay back 97% on 100% investment all of the time. The volume is extremely high. (however a few win some if they quit in time-but someone else paid for it) (providing traffic is heavy enough to pay their huge overhead). 3% of a trillion is much more than 10% of most any other number!

There is no formulas for banks as to profit! It is all shuffling!
Where do you suppose Vegas puts the cash every day?

G35 Dude's picture
Submitted by G35 Dude on Mon, 12/21/2009 - 10:20am.

Vary from casino to casino. It appears to be more like 87% to 93%.

http://www.practiceslots.com/slots/las-vegas/payouts/

Not that it really matters.


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