Jim Stewart, who grew up in River Falls and was a 21-year Hudson police officer before retiring in 1998, had most of the flesh from his face ripped off by Igor, his 120-pound American bull dog (closely related to pit bulls.

This happened in Wisconsin last week, The old Pit Bull scenario. Just a matter of time when they strike.

Excuse me, it seems that in my attempt to make a point, I completely contradicted myself. What I should have said is simply that it is wrong to stereotype a breed of dog. You might not be an idiot, and I should not have assumed such. Thanks for pointing out my error Wedge.

Somebody is completely ignorant.

“I've seen more aggressive Chihuahuas than pits in my career working with animals.”

For one thing just about anyone can drop-kick a Chihuahua through the goal posts of life if it’s little mouse brain short circuited and it tried to bite.

“YOU CAN'T STEREOTYPE A BREED OF DOG.”

For someone who professes to have had a, “career working with animals”, it a shame you don’t know that the 'Pit Bull' isn’t a breed.

Pit bull is NOT a breed. It's a generic term often used to describe all dogs with similar traits and characteristics known to the public as "pit bulls." When we use the term “pit bull” here, it should be understood to encompass American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

Clifton report (2008)
Mr. Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People News, has compiled from press reports a log of dog attack deaths and severe bites in the United States and Canada from September 1982 through January 1, 2008. The study methodology counted attacks "by dogs of clearly identified breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others with evident expertise,[that] have been kept as pets." Mr. Clifton acknowledges that the log "is by no means a complete list of fatal or otherwise serious dog attacks" since it excludes "dogs whose breed type may be uncertain, ...attacks by police dogs, guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight...."

The study found reports of 264 people killed by dogs over the 24-year period, of which "pit bull terrier" or mixes thereof were reportedly responsible for killing 137, or about 43 percent, of the 314 people killed by dogs in the attacks identified in the study. The breed with the next-highest number of attributed fatalities was the Rottweiler and mixes thereof, with 67 fatalities or about 21 percent of the study-identified fatalities; in aggregate, pit bulls, rottweilers, and mixes thereof were involved in about 64% of the study-identified fatalities.

The following table summarizes the number of pit bull-related fatalities in the United States from 2006-2008 as reported by news organizations.

Year, Deaths, Pit bull-type dogs
2005, 28, 16 or (57%)
2006, 30, 16 or (53%)
2007, 35, 20 or (57%)
2008, 23, 15 or (65%)

P.S. Chihuahuas didn’t make the list.

bad_ptc on Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:59am. wrote:
Somebody is completely ignorant.

combatcorrespondent says:
It may be you, bad_ptc

bad_ptc on Tue, 11/24/2009 - 10:59am. wrote:
When we use the term “pit bull” here, it should be understood to encompass American Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

combatcorrespondent says:
It should be understood by whom? American Pit Bull Terriers are basically "mutts", recognized by no one other than the "Pit Bull Club" and maybe the CKC Continental Kennel Club aka "Crap Kennel Club". They are certainly not recognized by ANY legitimate kennel club on the planet.

American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Bull Terriers are breeds RECOGNIZED by all legitimate kennel clubs, such as AKC, FCI, the REAL CKC "Canadian Kennel Club", and The Kennel Club "British Kennel Club". These breeds have their own parent club (as do all legitimate breeds) and their own written standard. The good temperament is a trait to be bred for.

So, who in a position of authority decides what is a "Pit Bull" for licensing and insurance purposes? I have a couple of very well bred AKC/FCI Champion Boxers that some morons have asked, "Is that a Pit Bull?"

We have a friend with AKC Champion Shar-Peis who has been asked the same question.

People who have dogs that are out of control/running loose should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the criminal/civil law. As professional dog trainers, we have seen some VERY well trained and socialized so-called "Pit Bulls" whose owners have been responsible enough to train and socialize their dogs.

While we feel for the original poster who was bitten by these so-called "Pit Bulls, "It ain't about the breed. It's about the owners!"

Use the the laws that are already on the books to punish irresponsible pet owners whose dogs roam loose and out of control rather than making up new laws and placing breed specific bans.

The only good 'Pit Bull' is a dead Pit Bull is my point.

Love2Teach attempted to call a 'Pit Bull' a breed.

That the AKC/FCI wont/can't classify what is or is not a 'Pit Bull' is proof enough that an animal breed for fighting needs dying.

As for Pit Bulls, like Muslim extremists, when in doubt kill them all and then let God sort them out.

.45 cents, cost of a .45 cal round, vs a $100,000+ medical bill for a child's pain is a small price to pay.

If you have a problem with that, please bring your 'Pit Bull', and I'll bring my .45.

I can guarantee you that only one of us will walk away from that encounter and it won't be the dog.

I shot my first 'wild' dog with a 12 gage when I was 14 and I've hunted/murdered them ever since. I've even killed them with a knife but a .45 is a hell of a lot more fun.

There are some things in this world that just need killing. Pit Bulls and some stupid people fall into that category.

Hunted/Killed you are a true sick puppy. Please move out of the county, we don't need mean sick people like you. I can understand if you are threatened but for goodness sake..You are a really bad, bad man if that is what is in your heart. Ok, if I was threatened I would pull my ruger but to "hunt" YOU ARE SICK!!!

you'd be sitting on doctor's couch at best, more than likely, I would have beat the crap out of you before I knew it!

First place, you don't know if they are 'wild'. Sounds like anything with no collar was fair game for you back then.

I grew up in the country and a highway ran in the front. I had so many strays I can't tell you. Myself and the other kids spent our time in the woods. We were there in the mornings, came home to eat, and stayed the afternoons. It was a great way for a child too grow up. NEVER.. was I ATTACKED by wild dogs! NEVER...!

I'm not saying that dogs have not attacked people, but those that have were probably trained to be attack dogs or fighting dogs, like Vicks. If you brutalize anything long enough, it will hurt you.

The case you site of the old couple who were dog lovers being attacked sounds like they probably were trying to take them to the pound. Got one, it probably fought, and the other dogs jumped them. If a group are left in the wild, they will form a 'pack mentality', meaning one for all, and all for one. The old couple had probably done it many times before and thought nothing of it. They made a mistake.

If I see a strange dog, I never run or turn by back on it. I stand still and it will either go away or check me out. If it checks me out, I don't reach for it. If it seems to want to be friendly I let it make all the moves. Never reach behind a dogs head that you don't know and never ever try to feed a strange dog out of your hand. I have 3 dogs and they are gentle, but I tell every kid that wants to play with them the rules.

I believe if bad_ptc was your kid, the first thing he would have shot would have been himself.

I yam what I yam....Popeye

Ok by me.

Bad_ptc wrote:
"That the AKC/FCI wont/can't classify what is or is not a 'Pit Bull' is proof enough that an animal breed for fighting needs dying."

That no legitimate kennel club will recognize the "Pit Bull breed" is an indication that it is not a true "breed". So, in your witch hunt against "Pit Bulls", how do you determine what is a "Pit Bull"? Or is it just a "feeling" where you "feel" that it is a "Pit Bull"? Or does it even matter since you have admitted to seeking out and killing "wild" dogs (No breed mentioned).

Bad_ptc wrote:
As for Pit Bulls, like Muslim extremists, when in doubt kill them all and then let God sort them out.

Bad_ptc admits to at least a Class A misdemeanor and possibly a couple of felonies:
I shot my first 'wild' dog with a 12 gage when I was 14 and I've hunted/murdered them ever since. I've even killed them with a knife but a .45 is a hell of a lot more fun.

Fayette County Sheriff's Department? Peachtree City Police? Where are you now? We have this moron ADMITTING on a public forum to committing animal abuse over and over. Killing for fun. Where is Animal Control now?

This idiot has ADMITTED to committing Class A misdemeanors and possibly FELONIES!!!!

Bad_ptc wrote:
There are some things in this world that just need killing. Pit Bulls and some stupid people fall into that category.

Are you also hunting down and killing these "stupid" people since you say it is the same thing. What do you use for criteria for determining who is "stupid" and "needs killing".

THIS guy has issues and needs to be dealt with not on this forum but by law enforcement.

I don’t know what country you live in but the law in the U.S. clearly states that I’m allowed to defend myself and others with deadly force if I feel that my life or that of another is in jeopardy.

Wild Dogs Kill Georgia Animal Lovers

Apparently you’ve never spent much time in the outdoors short of your back yard.

F.Y.I. About the first one I killed.

It was in my neighbors front yard eating another neighbors small dog.

I called animal control to report the dog and was told that because it was almost 5:00PM on a Friday they couldn’t send anyone.

As far as calling the police, I did. The police told me that they would try and send an officer over but it was not a priority call. When I informed them that I was going to shoot it they said, “ok but be careful”.

When the police officer finally arrived, around 7:30 that night, I told him that I had shot the dog and put it in a plastic bag in the garbage can. He asked if anyone had been injured by the dog and that was it.

I have no problem killing anything that intends to harm me or someone else. Get over it.

years ago I saw the biggest dog I'de ever seen loose and standing in the biggest dog haters of the world's yard.

I'm only 5'1" but I had sense enough to know it was someone's pet. I went over and got it into my yard, read the tag and called the owner. It was a Newfoundland it turned out. They are gentle giants. They were used as water rescue dogs. Man, just think I could have felt so big if I just shot it!

As a cyclist, I've had dogs which have charged and chased me. The farthest thing on my mind when I hose them down with HALT, is this some one's pet. If using a gun was appropriate, so be it.

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

bad_ptc wrote:
I don’t know what country you live in but the law in the U.S. clearly states that I’m allowed to defend myself and others with deadly force if I feel that my life or that of another is in jeopardy.

In an earlier post bad_ptc BOASTED:
I shot my first 'wild' dog with a 12 gage when I was 14 and I've hunted/murdered them ever since. I've even killed them with a knife but a .45 is a hell of a lot more fun.

I ask:
Which are you? A liar full of hot air? Or are you an animal abuser? Dude, you can't have it both ways. You are clearly one or the other based on your own postings.

You BOAST that you have "hunted/murdered them ever since". According to Mr. Webster in his dictionary:

Hunt/Hunted:
1 a : to pursue for food or in sport b : to manage in the search for game
2 a : to pursue with intent to capture b : to search out : seek
3 : to drive or chase especially by harrying
4 : to traverse in search of prey

I see NOTHING in Mr. Webster's definition that says anything about "defending" or "protecting". So, you were out "hunting" wild dogs in your own yard so you could defend yourself? Or were you out someplace else when you "hunted/murdered them"?

bad_ptc wrote tries to place doubt about MY experience by writing:
Apparently you’ve never spent much time in the outdoors short of your back yard.

I have spent 20 years as a dog trainer. My dogs and I hold no fewer than two world records for dog training/competition. One of my dogs was nominated for military working dog of the year three years ago.

I spent nine years in the Marines and 14 years in the Army Reserve. I have been to Iraq NINE times and Afghanistan once. Those are some of MY credentials. YOURS?

First an foremost, as for your military time in Iraq and Afghanistan I will thank you, and all servicemen and women, for your dedication and bravery in defending my rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens. THANK YOU!!!!!!

What I am CombatCorrespondent is someone, who for the past 30+ years, is someone who has hunted, fished, camped, hiked, canoed and river rafted all over this great country. What I currently do for a living and for whom I do it is not relevant to this conversation.

While spending up-wards of 1 to 2 months a year, for the past 30+ years, in the out-of-doors I and my friends have come across wild dogs on many occasions and have put them down. It’s not just wild dogs but any pack of animals that are a threat to people. On occasion, if someone in our group spots a pack, we have hunted it. It’s a whole lot better if we hunt them than the other way around.

Please be assured I’m not referring to someone’s lost pet that has just strayed a little too far from home but rather an abandoned animal that has had to rely on its own instincts to survive for several weeks or months in the wild.

I know of know one who has successfully re-integrated such an animal into a human society. I don’t blame the animal but I won’t trust it either.

Contrary to what most people think, there are things in the woods that are big enough to eat you. Accidentally walk up on a feral hog with her litter and see what happens.

Unlike a bear, wild dogs will almost always hunt in packs and will actively pursue someone in the woods. Coyotes’ will do the same, especially if you’re hiking at night. They will actually track you while in the woods and attempt to attack you if you’re not paying attention. Wolfs on the other hand will generally try to avoid people; obviously a smarter bread of animal.

That you and your dogs have won prizes is a good thing but it’s not you or your animals that I have had a problem with.

It’s those people that, for whatever reason, think it’s easier to just take their unwanted animal several miles into the woods and leave it there that I have problems with. Their dogs become my problem if I or a member of my group happens upon them. It’s kind of like Fayette Pavilion in a way.

If I’ve offended you in my satisfaction in taking a few of them out it’s based on the facts that I’ve seen firsthand what a pack of wild dogs can so to someone.

I would much rather have me of my friends oppose such odds than a six year old.

If more people took your stance on working with their animals rather that just abandoning them in the deep woods, people like me could concentrate on the great beauty of this country rater than havening to defend ourselves against the unexpected.

That the current U.S. administration reinstated the law that allowed a citizen to carry a weapon while in National Parks is in my opinion just, I’ll tell you now that I’ve always carried a weapon on my person while in the ‘woods’ for many years.

If something in the woods is going to try and eat me, it’s going to have to earn it.

Simply put... I stand with you Bad PTC. This year on my farm in Oklahoma I have killed one wild stray and two cats that are results of Town Clown Dumpings. When town folk get tired of their dogs and cats or they are moving to a new place that will not accept their pooch they often times haul them out in the country and dump them. These dogs hesitate not in killing off calves, goats and whatever wildlife they encounter. I kill them WITHOUT hesitation. And you are correct.. they will come after you if you are not careful.

As far as the cats go; Dumped cats adapt naturally in the wild and their primary targets are game birds and rabbits. And an untamed cat in a barn is a viscious encounter if they believe themselves to be cornered. One doesn't have to fear coons and skunks near as much as a wild dog or cat.

As far as coyotes go. They are fun to plink off. Perhaps I'll take some pics of them hanging on fence posts when I get back out that way in a few weeks.

In fear of wild dogs and a possible rabid coyote, I carry on the farm for the same reasons I carry at my place of employment in Clayton County.

As far as the dude wanting to know your employer. I suppose you could tell him. But then....aren't you required by your employer to kill him afterwards??? Cheers!

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

lots of predators more dangerous than dogs

Bad_ptc patronizes:
First an foremost, as for your military time in Iraq and Afghanistan I will thank you, and all servicemen and women, for your dedication and bravery in defending my rights and the rights of all U.S. citizens.

Unfortunately, we have to defend the rights of jerks and idiots as well the good people.

Bad_ptc whines:
What I currently do for a living and for whom I do it is not relevant to this conversation.

I didn't think it would either, but I'm just following your line when you questioned my experience in the outdoors. I'm guessing the majority of your outdoor experience was gained through your employment in the sporting goods department at Wal-Mart?

Bad_ptc assures us:
Please be assured I’m not referring to someone’s lost pet that has just strayed a little too far from home ...

So, as you "hunted/murdered" (Your words, not mine) these dogs that you encountered in the woods at Wal-Mart, how did you determine that these were not indeed someone's lost pet? You asked them?

Bad_ptc writes:
I know of know one who has successfully re-integrated such an animal into a human society.

Actually, there are many accounts of lost dogs who have had to survive in the wild and have been reconnected successfully with their families.

Bad_ptc writes:
... it’s not you or your animals that I have had a problem with.

And you have no reason to have a problem with me. I DO have a problem with people like you who are calling for bans on breeds rather than enforcing the code that is already on the books.

I DO have a problem with people like you who are say it is OK to shoot a dog if you THINK it is a Pit Bull, yet don't even know the difference between a Pit Bull and a Staffordshire Terrier and a Boxer and lump them all together.

I DO have a problem with people like you who are calling for people to kill all Pit Bulls and stupid people. If you were to follow your own guidelines, you should have committed suicide years ago.

I have no problem with you or anyone else defending against an attacking dog or other animal.

The original post was not about attacking wild dogs in the woods. It was about banning a particular breed because someone was attacked by two so-called Pit Bulls.

From there, it went to you bragging about how you "hunted/murdered" (Your words, not mine) these dogs and how it should be OK to kill wild dogs and stupid people.

The problem is not so much with the dangerous breed as it is with dangerous owners. If a loose dog attacks someone, the owner should be prosecuted in criminal and civil court be made an example to other irresponsible dog owners.

I wouldn't personally own a Pit Bull either for some of the same reasons you mentioned. But I would not call for a ban on a breed because I don't personally care for that breed. In our classes, we have seen good, well trained, well socialized "Pit Bulls".

We can't go around placing bans on certain breeds just because some dogs of that breed, owned by irresponsible people, bite someone.

As you've no doubt exhausted your considerable vocabulary you should probably stop before you have an aneurism.

The simple fact is there are plenty of people like who can and will kill wild dogs if we find them running lose in the woods. Like I said before, get over it. Its carcass isn’t going to be able to testify against me.

That you would rather use the legal system to go after some dead-beat owner after their dog has attacked someone is proof enough for me I’ve wasted my time with you.

More often than not the people who own these types of dogs are attempting to make up for some personnel lacking on their part. There’s no doubt in my mind you fit neatly into that category. Some type of control freak no doubt.

You were wrong when you said I committed a crime for hunting and killing these animals. Your ‘ignorance’ of the law is probably just the tip if the iceberg.

Your silence to the article about the elderly couple in Georgia that were attacked and killed by a pack of dogs goes to show that you just won’t admit that there is a danger to these things.

As far as I’m concerned, people like you that would argue that a dog has rights or is somehow more important than a child, in my opinion, should be neutered.

Pass a law, don’t pass a law banning these types of dogs, whatever. I don’t need a law to tell me that these types of dogs are a danger to society and their owners are morons that now work at Wal-Marts because there pervious employers kicked them out because they were idiots. I’ve already made up my mind what needs to be done.

Have a nice day.

This conversation is now over.

I haven't had this much fun reading the Citizen in quite awhile! Wow...I'm sitting here just so depressed- I never knew I was so personally lacking. Hello everyone, my name is Normal Guy (everybody say "Hi Normal Guy") and I am personally lacking. I like big dogs, I have big dogs, I generally like all dogs- even pit bulls, but never knew until this post that owners of pit bull type dogs were lacking- and by extension, I guess myself as well as someone who has no problem with responsibly owned pit bulls.
I also freely admit that I am a terrible judge of character as I now know all my friends who work at Wal-mart are morons. I never knew. I guess that makes me a moron too. And I guess Sam Walton was a moron for creating the world's largest retailer. Who knew? I didn't. (But what a visionary moron Sam was for creating a work program for idiots who have been fired from all other employment!) Shame on me for not being so self righteous. Guess I'm stupid too then... dang, that solution is gonna hurt.
I also freely admit to being a "control freak" because of my opinion that owners be held accountable for their pets rather than a general ban on any breed that bad_ptc doesn’t like. In my defense, I can only say I never thought my personally lacking life needed to be so rigidly controlled by bad_ptc. My shame again.
I wonder though... I have never felt the need to pack a weapon while hiking nor while walking the golf cart paths. Maybe I don't watch Discovery Channel enough to know what is out there lurking behind the crepe myrtles to eat me. But before you, bad_ptc, start reminding us all again about your .45, your Man vs, Wild adventures in the parks, whether or not you carry as part of your employment, your wall of stuffed pet head trophies, the notches on your pistol grip for every dog you’ve killed, your right to defend yourself from that charging poodle or whatever else might scare you (blah, blah, blah), let me say that my employer requires that I carry as well- several weapons in fact, but I certainly don't use it as a license to be a dumb@$$- oops, I've digressed from my own self-actualization...
I guess my personal lacking also manifests itself in a darned innate ability to separate the real from perceived (and psychotic?) threats of ravenous packs of wandering pets. I guess I'm also lacking a touch of either (a) paranoia or (b) delusions of self grandeur as well. Man, I am a mess! Truly, I in no way measure up to as manly a man as you.
You know, bad_ptc, my father once told me that the guy who hides behind threats and bluster is the guy who has nothing but his mouth to make up for his lack of personal courage and self worth. Guess Dad was wrong once again. But back to me because this is my epiphany about my personal lacking and is all part of the 12 Steps for us Lacking Morons....
Citizens of PTC, I am a personally lacking, stupid moron but thanks to bad_ptc, I now see how messed up I am... and I promise to henceforth go forward on this new golf cart path of enlightenment! I can't wait to wake up tomorrow and start my new life!
By the way, bad_ptc, one thing I am not personally lacking is sarcasm. Oh, I’m also not lacking in the ability to protect my pets from you- no weapon required. But hey, that's just my "control freak" problem. Buy a mirror, take a good look in it… then say three times “hello Pot, this is Kettle”.

After that, bad PTC's "personnel lacking part" has shriveled up and hid!

moment. I wonder how long before it pops?
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I can not believe you are so sick as to kill strays ...you said it yourself, hunted stray dogs. I can not believe they give carry license to sick folks like you.

For anyone who has been following this thread, we have seen Bad_ptc propose that we not only ban, but we should be able to shoot and kill all "Pit Bulls" and "Pit Bull types" (Even though he can't tell the diference between a "Pit Bull" and an American Staffordshire Terrier or even a Boxer.

Bad_ptc has in his own words, "hunted/murdered" stray and wild dogs even though he still can't answer what criteria he uses to determine what is a "wild dog". If he sees your pet loose, he claims he will shoot it if he THINKS it is a "wild" dog.

He has also called for the killing of all "Pit Bull" types of dogs and said "stupid people" should also be shot. This type of backwards mentality is what leads to breed bans and the slaughter of innocent dogs (and people).

If we ban "Pit Bulls" now, what will we ban next? Cocker Spaniels? Golden Retrievers? Labrador Retrievers? All of these breeds bite people every year. Goldens or Labs are as large as "Pit Bulls" and can cause the same damage as a "Pit Bull". Should we ban them? Should we ban all pet ownership as the freaks at PETA (People For The Ethical Treatment Of Animals) would suggest?

He says the conversation is "over now". I betcha he answers this reply of mine with more personal attacks against me as he tries to justify his actions as he "hunted/murdered" (his own words) dogs he felt were wild.

Bad_ptc claims:
Its carcass isn’t going to be able to testify against me.

I say:
If you were doing nothing wrong, why would it be of concern as to whether the carcass could testify or not? You STILL haven't explained HOW you decide WHICH dogs are "wild" and which ones are merely someone's pet that has broken loose. Or do you just kill them all and then "let God sort them out?"

Bad_ptc claims:
That you would rather use the legal system to go after some dead-beat owner after their dog has attacked someone is proof enough for me I’ve wasted my time with you.

I say:
Actually, genius boy, what I said was that the owners of any of these dogs that are running loose should be prosecuted whether they have bitten or not. I did NOT say they should be prosecuted only after they bit someone. Practice up on your reading skills.

Bad_ptc tries to shift his ignorance onto me:
More often than not the people who own these types of dogs are attempting to make up for some personnel lacking on their part. There’s no doubt in my mind you fit neatly into that category.

I ask Bad_ptc:
Are you saying I have a Pit Bull? Again, if you were to gain some reading interpretation skills, you would have read that I said I would not own a Pit Bull.

Bad_ptc claims that I am:
Some type of control freak no doubt.

Control? You mean like the types that are calling for a ban against "Pit Bulls"? THAT is a "control freak"!

Bad_ptc tries again to shift HIS ignorance onto me by writing:
You were wrong when you said I committed a crime for hunting and killing these animals. Your ‘ignorance’ of the law is probably just the tip if the iceberg.

You have a right to defend yourself against an attacking dog or a dog that you feel threatened by. Are you such a coward that you "feel threatened" by every dog you see in the woods or on the street and feel the need to kill it? Obviously you have "hunted/murdered" (Your own words) many of these dogs. How did you verify that each of these dogs was wild and/or dangerous?

Bad_ptc lies again:
As far as I’m concerned, people like you that would argue that a dog has rights or is somehow more important than a child, in my opinion, should be neutered.

Where have I argued this? Please show me the quote where I said, "Dogs have rights" or "Dogs are more important than a child.". Just another example of you running out of logic and starting to make things up as you go to make personal attacks against me since you have no substance. Please just do a copy and paste and quote where I said this. The problem is, you made that up.

Reaching for straws, Bad_ptc now attacks not only me, but the people who work at Wal-Mart:
I don’t need a law to tell me that these types of dogs are a danger to society and their owners are morons that now work at Wal-Marts because there pervious employers kicked them out because they were idiots.

So, NOW in your effort to dig out of the hole YOU dug with your own shovel of ignorance, you try to point the finger of idiocy away from you and onto the workers of Wal-Mart? Dude, give it up. I'm not an idiot or ignorant. Neither are all the people who work at Wal-Mart.

Bad_ptc sates:
I’ve already made up my mind what needs to be done.

Yeah I heard your "final solution". You suggested that all "Pit Bulls", wild/stray dogs and stupid people should be killed. (Your words). Wasn't that Mr. Hitler's solution to a problem? Just kill them all?

Perhaps you should consider professional counseling to deal with the hate/anger issues that dwell within your mind?

Bottom line. Breed bans DON'T work! Ban/prosecute stupid/irresponsible pet owners.

When I was a child, we found one beaten and left on the side of the road. We called him Boxer. Despite what was done to him, he loved us kids. He almost died again, saving my brother. We kids were in the woods barefoot and a moccasin tried to bite my brother, Boxer jumped in the middle and took several bites before he killed it.

My Mother's rule was no dogs in the house. But Boxer stayed in my room under my piano bench for a week or two with my Mother taking care of him. That is where he crawled when we took him inside and we were afraid he would give up n die if moved. Half his face rotted n fell off. Man what a stink, but no one said a word.

He was stiff after that n didn't get around as well, but he was a good and well loved dog till he died many years later.

I have no argument this time with anything you say about stupid people allowing their dogs to get loose or who turn them loose.
Then they whine about what happens to them.

wow. yikes.

"YOU CAN"T STEREOTYPE ... If you do, you're an idiot, hands down".

Haha good catch! Guess I got carried away with my ranting. Still, you get my point.

and merely tweaked because I am conflicted about stereotypes. Dogs left to themselves in a natural setting do no exhibit the breeds that we have today. We have cross-bred and genetically manipulated (the old way-selection and breeding, not gene splicing)to create the breeds that we have. That is also why many purebred dogs exhibit genetic difficulties like dysplasia. Therein we can stereotype- I can stereotype a Mastiff as large; a Sheltie as skittish..etc. The rule is never 100%. Pit Bulls are an anomoly for me. I have seen too many conscientious owners report extreme unpredictability and aggressiveness as the dogs age. These owners do not mistreat, aggressively train, etc. I have a hard time processing the breed's anecdotal evidence without stereotyping. I do not feel that I am an idiot. I also know that mental illness can have a genetic component and can be passed along in humans. Can the same be true with this breed of dog? I do not know, but I am wary

How about an "Out of City Fee"?

I've stopped going, the arrangement makes no sense. Maybe a dollar a dog for non-members would be fair. What a stupid idea, to make it a private club. Incorporate a 503c, elect a board - for a dog park? I cannot believe they actually did it. I mean, it's a dog park! And a really lame one at that, they took out about every tree. What nonsense, it's doomed to failure.

Truth be told, the PTC Dog Park Association built the Dog Park. The only reason the park is in wonderful shape is due to the association. There are no Rec employees to do the job as they were all terminated.

The park is approaching 200 members from five counties. There is no line item in the city's budget for the Dog Park.

We actually have out-of-county users pay their fair share of tax to use the park. At the end of the year, the additional $10 from out-of-county users will go to the city to cover water and waste disposal.

Four cities in Metro Atlanta have come to visit our park because it is the one to emulate.

We will be expanding soon thanks to Adopt-A-Fence donations from generous patrons.

Go to www.ptcdogpark.com or our Facebook page (put "Peachtree City Dog Park" in the search box).

I've heard a lot of people say that after his term as Mayor, Steve Brown couldn't get himself elected to dog catcher.

However, I see he was elected president of the PTC Dog Park!

Congrats, Mr. Brown!

I just went under the bridge and the wreath is hanging up there. It's more sad looking than the reindeer on top of Books A Million at The Avenue.

Could the city approach Pikes, or Home Depot or Walmart to donate a new wreath? If not, then maybe it's time to squeeze a few dollars out of next year's budget for it's replacement. I know times are tight, but either this needs to be the last year for Mr. Wreath or a replacement ordered for next year. The tree at City Hall is looking perky, though.

That takes money. Since all governments are broke they have to get it somewhere. If you take a dog to the park you should pay. Nothing is free. Out of county people should not be at this dog park. Keep your mutts home.

What upkeep? Its a fenced in area in the middle of the woods with mulch on the ground. There is no way that park costs more to maintain than any other park in town. Why don't we just extend this club to cover all the parks in town and then fence off every park and only allow them to be used by people with membership passes? I don't think this issue is really about money. I think the issue is that the people who volunteered to build the park are a bunch of control freaks who do not want to share there park.

www.ptcdogpark.com

It isn't funded in any way by the city or taxpayers. It does take upkeep and maintenance and work. It has a limited base of volunteers and needed a way to stay a nice place, so they implemented the fee.

ZoeS

"Never love anything that can't love you back."

Upkeep, right. The association overhead likely exceeds the cost of upkeep. My dog doesn't care about your PO Box and Officer & Director insurance.

Your annual membership fee helps us pay for:
- Post Office Box
- Non-Profit fee with GA Sec. of State
- Website fees
- Liability insurance
- Director & Officer insurance
- Poop bags
- Fence and general maintenance
- Equipment rental (if needed)
- Reserve fund for emergencies
===================
$3,200 total expenses

But trewwwwww......Woooff...woooff..Bowwww...Wowwwwwie!!!!!

..

If what matt.barnes says is true, they dogs are pissed they don't have their free park anymore! So, they do what dogs do when they are mad. They BITE people!

Only people could screw this up for dogs. They just want a place to go and play and sniff and pee and poo and act like a dog and now it's been taken away??? Can you blame them? They must be howling mad!

Or grow a mustache or buy a Harley or a Corvette.

Your statistics do not take in account the demmographics of the owners of Pit-Bulls. There are is a lot of white trash and ghetto rats out there who get Pit Bulls because of there potential to be mean and then raise them to be that way. Beacause of this I cannot blame the breed. Just like any other dog given the propoer amount of love I still feel that pits can be good dogs. However, I do agree with the mandatory 100k insurance policy for two reasons. 1. Because of some of the stories on this blog explaining there unpredictablity. I own a Pit Bull. First she was my wife's dog and now she is ours. Our dog also holds a higher level of emotional attachment to us because my wife and I might because of that dog. 2. I agree with the insurance because I think that a lot of the bad people who make Pit Bulls bad dogs are low-income people and the mandatory insurance (which hopefully they will not be able to afford) will force these people to choose between living in PTC and owning a pit. Either way the good people in PTC win. I don't like the muzzle part but wil be happy to insure my dog if it helps drive bad people out of town.

For the first 10 years of marriage, my husband worked third shift. So our pit had always been used to sleeping with me. When my husband finally landed day shift, it became a HUGE power struggle over who was going to sleep on that side of the bed - hubby or Hershey. While my vote was for hubby - Hershey had issues with that. We eventually had to shut him out of the room altogether, with him clawing and growling. I believe that is why it was my husband who was attacked by the dog. Hershey felt that his territory had been encroached upon.

"The most beautiful things in life cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart." - Helen Keller

It took me 3yrs to get our dog to sleep on the floor. That dog loves my wife and she loves me. I can't imagine Weebles attacking me but I can take it if it comes down to it. For now I'll just be be more careful.

Someday a person will have fear of a cocker or a collie and want to put them asleep! Keep dogs under law-abiding supervision!

mar66cla wrote:
"Ban Pit Bulls Completely
Submitted by mar66cla on Sat, 11/14/2009 - 10:17am.
Pit Bulls are unpredictable, you never know when they are going to snap. I say ban them completely."

UNTRAINED and UNSUPERVISED dogs of ANY breed are unpredictable. Rather than attack the breed, we should be attacking the irresponsible dog owners (of all breeds) with criminal and civil action, who allow their dogs to roam freely or who cannot control their dogs on leash.

As a professional dog trainer, my wife and I notice dog owners all the time with out of control dogs on and off leash. And not just pitbulls. A five year old child holding the leash of a Great Dane (or any large dog) is neither cute or responsible.

A study was done in Great Britain in the 1990's that showed despite banning Pitbulls, the number of dog bites did not go down.

Here is a link to some great information that looks at dog bite statistics:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

We need to train the owners to train their dogs. Dog owners who repeatedly allow their dogs to roam freely or out of control in public, need to be dealt with using the laws that are already on the books.

I personally don't care for Pitbulls, but I would not move to ban them or restrict them any more so than any other breed. If we ban them, next we will be banning any other breed that bites someone. Where does it end?

And who is to be the one to determine if a dog is really a Pitbull? An American Staffordshire Terrier or a Boxer can look like a "Pitbull". There are other breeds that have similar looks and can be confused with a Pitbull. Do we ban those dogs too? No reputable registry (AKC/FCI) recognizes the Pitbull as a legitimate breed. So, who would be the final authority of determining what is a "Pitbull"?

Many people do not even know that the Fayette County Recreation Department offers a 10 week dog obedience training class that is taught by professional and experienced trainers. It's $85!

http://www.fayettecountyga.gov/parks_and_recreation/brochure/fall09/Fall%202009.pdf

I'm sorry the gentleman was bitten by these dogs, but I think he should be seeking relief against the owners of the dogs that bit him through the courts and not through bans on certain breeds.

I say lets act with reason and assign blame and responsibilty where it should be. And that would be with the owners of the dogs that have bitten.

Unfortunately, at the end of the day, the dogs will have to pay with their lives for their owners ignorance, arrogance and irresponsibilty.

but it is also true that this breed is unpredictable and dangerous enough to make that unpredictability a real public issue. I too once owned a Stafordshire and it was a great dog. He bonded with and played with my young boy and he loved him. But it was a dog, and when I shipped out on the USS Eisenhower for a Med cruise, I guess he decided that he was now top dog. All it took was one ear pull by my one year old second son, the ensuing snap at his face, and an agressive reaction by an understandably freaked mother to put this animal into a state of fight or flight, and being a pit, it chose the former. Quick response by the base police, a come-along and 9MM slug later, and my older son had lost his companion pet and my younger son bears the scar on his face to this day.

It could have happened with any breed, but these stories are far too common with these breeds. We were lucky, many are not. If you own 20 acres or more (or a junkyard) and want to have a good protector animal, then go for it...pits fill the bill. If you live in a neighborhood with kids, or for that matter have kids of your own, simply understand that you are playing with a loaded weapon. Its not the animal's 'fault' or neccessarily the owner's fault, its breeding.

alanf33 wrote:
I too once owned a Stafordshire and it was a great dog.

alanf33 also wrote:
...and being a pit ...

Alan, what kind of dog did you really have? Do you even know? The Staffy and Am Staff are NOT "Pit Bulls". The Staffy and Am Staff are legitimate breeds. The pit is not. What was YOUR dog registered as? THIS my point. YOU owned one of these dogs and YOU don't even know what to call it!!

Any dog, left UNSUPERVISED by a parent or guardian can do this. Where was mom when this happened? And do you REALLY know what happened since you were not there? How do you know it was "one pull"? Maybe this was the last pull the dog could tolerate and the only one where he actually bit? It doesn't excuse his behavior, but kids left unsupervised can taunt a dog and make them bite.

alanf33 wrote:
It could have happened with any breed ...

Actually, it is more likely to happen with a Cocker Spaniel than with a "Pit Bull". But "Pit Bulls" do more damage because they are bigger. Why aren't we calling for a ban on Cocker Spaniels?

alanf33 wrote:
"Its not the animal's 'fault' or neccessarily the owner's fault, its breeding."

If the dog was OK up to this point and the child and dog were left alone for even a moment, then the blame falls squarely on the person responsible for supervising the child.

Go to the source of the problem. The problem is deadbeat, irresponsible owners.

CombatCorrespondent wrote:
“Why aren't we calling for a ban on Cocker Spaniels?”

Bad_ptc wrote:
“Because you can spray a Cocker Spaniel with a water gun and it will run away.”

CombatCorrespondent wrote:
"Actually, it is more likely to happen with a Cocker Spaniel than with a "Pit Bull"."

Bad_ptc wrote:
"And you know this how?"

CombatCorrespondent wrote:
"Bad_ptc admits to at least a Class A misdemeanor and possibly a couple of felonies"

Bad_ptc wrote:
"CombatCorrespondent has no clue what the law says."

CombatCorrespondent wrote:
"What do you use for criteria for determining who is "stupid" and "needs killing".

Bad_ptc wrote:
"Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force."

Bad_ptc wrote:
"Get over it."

Its not the breed its the owners. I have a Pit Bull mix, she is great with my friends and my friends kids.

I think this rejoinder--"It's not the breed; it's the owner"--is only partially true.

I knew Trish McConnell in grad school, whose NPR call-in show, Calling All Pets, deals with behavior problems in pets. (She also has several books on the topic.) Trish raised and trained border collies on her Wisconsin farm, and they were keenly attuned to her commands. I was impressed that Trish's dogs ran free on the property and had no need of fences. She had taught them their boundaries, and they did not dare cross them.

Nevertheless, there are features of the breed that are hardwired in.
Show me a border collie and I'll show you a dog that is genetically programmed to display a canine version of obsessive compulsive disorder. This makes it the more remarkable that Trish could even get her collies to sit still for more than 30 seconds!

Similarly, pit bulls are hardwired, as a result of selective breeding, with a predisposition for aggression--particularly towards dogs and other animals. I suppose it is possible, with the correct training and rearing, to produce a pit bull with good and predictable behavior as Trish did with her collies. But not everyone has the dog training wisdom of a Trish McConnell. And though there are of course important exceptions to this, the breed seems to be attractive to owners who value their aggressive reputation. It is simply true that there is a greater probability of an attack involving a pit bull than with most other breeds.

My wife's sister owned a pit bull years ago. He seemed very friendly and was around the extended family, including children, quite a bit. But one day he decided to attack her two-year-old nephew and bit him very badly in the face. No one saw it coming.

I was raised on a large farm with cattle, sheep, horses, etc.
There were also outside dogs. We fed these dogs and had no trouble personally with them, however they had their vicious nature. They were mostly collie mix.
One of the dogs jobs was to herd the milk cows out of the back pastures at milking time. He would nip their heels to get them to move. If they gave him a hard time he would swing on the end of their tails with his teeth.
He also joined a dog pack and killed several sheep. We shot him.

Then, certain cows and horses act like mean bulls also! One cow tried to run down and butt every small kid they saw. One young horse tried to run away with everything he was hooked up to.

The point is that domesticated animals are only domesticated so far as they have been trained and then only for many things----not all.
They have no fear of jail.
Leave a cat his claws and you will regret it!

Some are just plain mean. I once rode a horse like that. Apache was a two year old pinto and every bit an asshole - but he was only like that with me. Everyone else rode him without incident, but when I climbed aboard he bolted and bucked. Yep, he was an asshole!!

most beautiful things in life cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart." - Helen Keller

Apache seems to have a lot in common with Bonker$.

I yam what I yam....Popeye

As kid, I had a couple of desert tortoises. And they acted just like those horses; you know bolting around and stuff.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Regarding pit bulls, that statement would be true only when it was the owner that did the biting. The only safe pit bull is a dead pit bull.

It's not easy being the carbonunit

We had a pit/lab mix for 11 years. We adopted him from the pound as a puppy and were told that he was a lab puppy. As he grew it became evident, and the vet confirmed, that he was a pit bull mix. For 11 years we loved that dog and for 11 years I defended pits. Then came the day when he turned on my family, attacking my husband and giving him six bites. We had no choice but to put down our beloved pet. If he would not heal to his 250 pound 6 foot master, then the children were not safe.

Two years later, I am still in shock over the incident and still grieving over my dog. But now we have another rescue dog... a loving black lab that loves the whole family (especially my son). He waits at the front door for the kids to get home from school, he sleeps with my son until he falls asleep and then goes to my daughters room until she falls asleep. The only odd thing about him is that he is the only lab in the whole world that is TERRIFIED of water.

"The most beautiful things in life cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart." - Helen Keller

bornfree My family moved to PTC over 24 years ago. If I am not
mistaken, at that time there was a leash law that stated that ALL
Dogs would be required to be on a leash, no exceptions. Is it true
that this law was changed and if so when? I understand that it is
now okay to have them under voice control....yeah, right.

I thought the County Leash Law applied to all dogs and all owners in the entire County. I do not believe it has been changed. Does someone know different?

The County Leash Law applies to all dogs AND CATS.

ZoeS

"Never love anything that can't love you back."

I'm not sure if you were replying to my post or not but I agree there is a leash law and it should be followed. I was just commenting that I own a pit bull and she is a very nice dog and gentle dog who loves people. I shouldn't be held responsible for other peoples mistakes. I'm sorry that this guy got attacked twice in one year but with the exception of Mr. Brown how many people were attacked by pit bulls in PTC last year?

We are held responsible for other's mistakes all the time. I have never shot anyone with a machine gun, but they are heavily regulated. I can't go to ACE Hardware and buy dynamite, even though I have never bombed someone. I can't drive 90 mph down the interstate even though I have never had a crash I was charged with. I can't even carry a small pocket knife with me on an airplane even though I have never tried to hijack one. So, get over it. We suffer for other people mistakes every day. Now, find another point to justify having these dastardly dogs.

You are right that you should not be held responsible for another's actions, but you have to realize that the statistics are not exactly in favor of your breed. I believe that pit bulls, rottweilers, and their mixes count for between half to three-fourths of all dog bites. Two-thirds of those are the FIRST time for the animal to show this type of aggressive behavior. With these stats, you have to see how people are ready to "profile" pit bulls! There is good reason for doing so.

Cart path encounters need to end with a dead predator - looter or pit bull, does not matter which one.
I carry when I'm on the cart paths and have done so for 10 years and not once have I pulled the Beretta out of the fanny pack. I thought about it when I saw David's Mom walking the other day (no just kidding, doll face) but I never had a real reason to draw the weapon.

However, if I see a charging pit bull ---bang, bang he/she/it be a dead dog.

I agree with mudcat.

attack, you can not get their jaws off their prey. I am sure there are many wonderful pits but, sad to say, there have been cases where the gentlest, sweetest pit bull turned on it's owner and tore them up. They can really do damage especially to children or older defenseless people. I don't believe we should go to the extremes listed by the gentleman but there should be some control---be on a leash, be able to control the animal on a leash, never let it run loose, and always have it in a fenced-in yard when not with you on a leash. If you can't control the size and strength of the dog you should not have it.

Actually, it's not true that you cannot get their jaws apart...that's an urban legend. The problem of “dangerous dogs” will not be remedied by the “quick fix” of breed-specific laws. There is no evidence that breed-specific laws — which are costly and difficult to enforce — make communities safer for human families or for the companion animals who are a part of so many households. And it turns out, such laws also have negative and wholly unintended consequences. Who is going to pay for the County to "police" the bully breed dogs? The Shelter is already overworked and they are not equipped to make sure the county does not have any bully breed dogs. A task force formed in 2003 to study the effectiveness of the Prince George’s County, Maryland, pit bull ban estimated that the county spends more than $250,000 each year to enforce the ban. Further, in a report to the County Council, the task force noted that “public safety is not improved as a result of [the ban],” and that “there is no transgression committed by owner or animal that is not covered by another, non-breed specific portion of the Animal Control Code (i.e., vicious animal, nuisance animal, leash laws).” The task force recommended that Prince George’s County repeal the ban. (this information taken from the ASPCA website).

I think we need to ban stupid people, not their dogs.

If cats were going around scratching up kids badly and biting adults, we would shoot them all immediately, or when ever we saw one loose.
They do enough damage to my car hoods and flower pots now. They love to eat baby birds trying to learn how to fly also.

The point is that we have insufficient control of animals in dense neighborhoods. Just to say it is a person's fault is like saying wars are people's fault.
It doesn't solve or improve the situation.

I suggest that every time we run up on a bunch of stupid drunks fighting dogs in a pen, that we send all of the adults to that empty prison in Thomson, Illinois for five years---no probation. Or to the criminal hospital for the insane!

Give the dogs big doses of Prozac.

until it's your six year old that gets attacked by one.

Are you really going to sit there and tell me you'll be happy with whatever the courts decide then?

Unless and until people, not dogs, take personal responsibility, then all we will have is just pack of rules, laws, and regulations. No society can survive without each person taking personal responsibility for his or her own actions. No nanny state can save us from idiots.

As to what I would do if a loose dog hurt my six-year-old girl, I would decide what to do after I put neat bullet through the dog's head. Then I would go after the owner legally. He could sue me for killing his dog. I would let the court decide both separate cases.

If people want to own a dangerous breed, then they will have to take the risk of owning them. "sweet dogs" don't turn on their masters.

"I was in fear for my own life, or that of another"

Guy is like a magnet for vicious dogs.
Does he make victim noises or something?
Carrying raw hamburger in his pockets?

How many times has it been, Reg?

"S-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-s-sixty-six times"

Joke:
Mary Jane: "whuuuuuuaaatt tititime isizis iit, sir?

Doofus: says nothing!

Mary Jane: repeats her question, "whuuuuuuuaaatttititme isizis iit, Mister(loudly)

Doofus: says nothing!

Bystander, aggravated: "Mister, why won't you tell that poor woman what time it is?"

Doofus: Whhhuuuut, uhanuhan ggitt thuuhuh tttttaaaar ssssssslapppped outttnn me!"