Economic Tradeoffs--Where do we need to head?

The Wedge's picture

Over the past 30 years, the United States has made it a national policy to hold inflation down. We have achieved it through foreign labor and cheaper materials. We, the consumers, have demanded it. We, the investors, demanded it from our publically traded companies. For years it worked. The amount of consumer goods available for the average American would boggle the mind of someone transported from 1970. Today’s home has a panoply of gadgets, even a house below the poverty level. How do most houses afford these gadgets? They have been made inexpensive and available by being sourced overseas in a cheaper labor market. The cost of this free and easy access to consumer goods and cheaper prices has come with a tradeoff, however. That trade off is the dismantling of manufacturing in the United States. Now, the landscape is changing.
US Governmental spending and borrowing has injected an excess of dollars into the world economy. This large infusion of currency has begun to destabilize the US currency. The evidence of this is the move away from the dollar as the reserve currency of choice and the significant posturing of lender nations such as China and Japan against our out of control spending. Our inflation resistant times are coming to an end. The cheap goods produced overseas will now be more expensive. This is happening without currency translation as well as the Chinese begin to gain higher wages. China is ceding the low cost producer title to India soon. We are at a cross roads. We are ceasing to become an economic dynamo.
Where shall we go? China is in the process of commandeering the production and supplies of many industrial metals that are crucial to a modern economy. There are incredible barriers to penetration of American products in many countries that are competing with us. Free trade has not ever been free and unencumbered. Free trade has also bled manufacturing away from the US in the zeal to reduce inflationary pressures. We are under considerable cultural pressure to reduce our consumption, reduce our energy expenditures, decrease our wealth. We live in a resource constrained world. Most of the world is playing the economic game for keeps. It is time for us to do so as well.
This is getting long and I can comment after this. I feel that we need to look at the trade offs. Our economy is truly based upon what is grown under the sun and what is mined, cut, processed, and manufactured into useful products that our people use. We need to look at rebuilding our manufacturing base. That may mean higher priced goods that are locally produced. It may mean less stuff in our houses. It may mean rational choices. What do you think?

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Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 9:35pm.

This country is so full of Human Resource types, Computer Dabblers, Marketing Hacks, Middle Managers that can't manage but follow cookie cutter playbooks, and a sundry of all sorts of hangers-oners that have fed off industries and companies for years while producing very little and sucking resources during lucrative times. Look at all the layers of union hacks and officials and tell me what any of these characters actually produce and let's honestly and objectively examine the drain on productivity they have caused over the years.

Point is....People don't want to work. They want a position. We have become an entitled society since the 80's and the trend has been to step out of college while expecting a near 6-digit salary and then go into debt so we could instantly live like our parents without accumulating and earning their wealth over an extended period of time.

I have been relatively successful in life through hard work in business and extremely long hours put in during past years. I've made some very good money and have been relatively conservative and wise in investing, saving and accumulating. I've done without a lot of fringe luxuries that I sometimes jealously watched my friends and neighbors enjoy wondering how in the world did they do it.....sometimes wanting to be more like them. I would drive by their huge homes knowing what their occupations were; wondering how they could do it. And now... I know... They really couldn't afford it all this time.

Now many of these people have sadly lost nearly everything and many are unemployed. I sit back with a couple of positions open and my heart goes out to many of them, but I realize I could never employ them because in reality they bring very little to the table and would never bring about an ROI.

I have dean's list college grads working in my warehouse. Trained with useless degrees such as arts / music and human resources. Useless in todays society where we are overrun with multitudes of mediocre lawyers and sales types that would die before actually considering working with their hands.

When is the last time you met a young person learning to become a welder, a machinist, or other skilled and producing trade? We have a 15% unemployment rate in this country yet STILL when we need our roofs replaced or need concrete poured we have to turn to our illegal alien friends while we sit back and watch multitudes of lazy and inept blacks and whites whine about their plights in life.

Even now many in our current work force, including my own, are semi-unreliable and will burn all their sick leave up within the first couple of months and not any vacation time by the time summer rolls around. Then they complain when their paychecks no longer reflect 40+ hours a week and I shake my head when they mutter around how difficult it is to make ends meet. I can even cut them leeway and pay them often times and do you think they will go the extra mile and give me an honest days work? Hmmmmmm.....

We produce very little in this entitlement society we live in now and even when it really gets tough, the way many are stepping up to the plate is to be described as pathetic at best. If our favorite college team competed like most of our workforce does we would boo them off the field. Our country is entering a time of a real awakening. Will we step up to the plate or will we whine about what our government is not putting in our pockets when in reality they are only taking from our pockets?

Enough rambling... I will continue to look after and try to protect the very few that are worth protecting in my employment.

I do believe our economy has bottomed out. Problem is businesses will now hopefully stabilize and become profitable. But know this... we (those that provide jobs) are going to do more with less and as this so-called recovery begins.....we won't putting on a bunch of dead wood that other companies have dumped due to unproductive positions. No...I'm not saying ALL our unemployed are useless... but a huge portion are not worth hiring back.

It comes as no surprise as to why our manufacturing jobs have migrated offshore. At a major trade event in my industry sector I heard from three companies that shockingly told me they were moving production out of country for competitive and productivity reasons. One company moving operations to Mexico. One closing down a sector of manufacturing and outsourcing to China for obvious reasons and another who is closing their multi-year manufacturing facility down while changing from producing the product to now distributing the product for a Chinese firm. Guys....It isn't getting any better in that regard. Oh well...wasting my breath... Live large folks while you can. I wonder when our obese, feet dragging fat a$$, so-called poor people that weigh 300 lbs will start losing weight because the government can no longer keep their troughs full. Somehow I don't think the world is going to allow us to keep pouring unlimited amounts of money into our country's compost making industry.

Have a great day folks and excuse the spelling and grammar. LOL. It's late and I don't feel like proof reading. Hmmm... Does it even matter anymore????


Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

Submitted by allegedteacher on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 9:24am.

I've enjoyed reading this discussion! I agree that Americans have become entitlement junkies. I would like to add that our education system (especially NCLB) contributes. NCLB essentially demands that all students are the same, should be educated the same, and should all be prepared to go to college. If this logic is continued, then, we all should be able to perform the SAME jobs (doctors, teachers, electricians, etc). The reality is that we are not born with the same capabilities, and our society needs workers to perform different functions/jobs. School children with special learning needs are placed in classes that require performance beyond their abilities; the school system's response is to provide "accommodations" that level the playing field, to keep up the appearance that we all learn the SAME. Hence, entitlement rears its ugly face. If the students still do not respond positively, more accommodations are provided. The "regular" students come to resent those accommodations, perhaps solicit for their own or, in my opinion, worse, they themselves are tested into special education programs with some fuzzy sort of learning problem so that they too get these accommodations. The entire situation becomes so complicated that school systems have to hire consultants and coordinators and assistant coordinators and directors and lawyers to say...this kid is/is not this or that label. Corruption of the entire process necessarily ensues, and children's needs are no longer of any real concern and true education is no longer even a consideration.
I see that I mixed up entitlement mentality with the ills of the American education system, so I apologize for any confusion. My point is, in agreement with GitReal and Dawn, that hard work builds muscles and character. I don't think one is born with a desire to work hard, and the school system won't "educate" it into anyone. Looks like it's up to parents and society.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 10/17/2009 - 6:20am.

It does start in the schools. And I cringe when I hear some of stuff my kids repeat and bring home often times in this regard. I am constantly deprogramming them.

I don't think one is born with a desire to work hard, and the school system won't "educate" it into anyone. Looks like it's up to parents and society.

Ummmm.... A huge percentage of "parents and society" won't produce. What possibly could they teach in this regard? Puzzled

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 12:31am.

Git, I would be one of those deans' list arts graduates and I would have to agree fully with you. If I had maybe stuck with my foreign language degree and acquired multiple language skills, I might have fared better in the market place. Instead, I am living proof of what an art degree yields - bartending. The difference is that I was taught to take pride in any endeavor. There is no disgrace in working hard and earning an honest pay.

Too many don't understand this concept and that is why we have fallen behind as producers - LACK OF PRIDE. Very few actually take pride in their work or what they produce which means working efficiently, expeditiously, and to the best of your ability. It means being a mouthpiece in promoting the company you work for. It means you don't buy Hidden Valley dressing if you work for Kraft. If you take PRIDE in what you produce then you are a representative of that product. That is job security.

Jeez, Git, why haven't these people been taught proper work ethic?

Submitted by AtHomeGym on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 4:38pm.

Dawn, your logic is good. I know that success in my military career was assisted greatly by my willingness to go places others didn't want to go and do jobs others didn't want to do. In my first overseas tour (5 1/2 yrs in Germany), more than once, when asked to move, I packed everything I owned in my VW and went off into a new adventure, usually with increasing or additional responsibility. In short, I was used as a "Troubleshooter" to organize or clean up someone else's mess. I just took it as a challenge and not only survived but--in my own opinion--excelled. And for doing that, I was rewarded with early promotions .And during those earlier yrs, I was a bachelor, which made moving much easier. No regrets. And oh yes, I tended Bar too! I just figured I would be there there anyway and I may as well earn some money at the same time.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 8:04am.

Perhaps you are tending a bar, but you have an education. You could instead have "career training" and be successful, wealthy, and ignorant.

I am amazed at the number of "professional" people who are incapable of putting together two good sentences in English or formulating (or even recognizing) a valid argument. I'm talking about the most rudimentary verbal and analytic skills--not the obvious fact that not everyone is or can be some sort of humanities PhD. And the average person, despite having some sort of "training," seems neither to read nor reflect. Consider the interviews in Leno's Jaywalking segments.

I still tell students that their aim in going to college should be to acquire an education and this for its own sake, and not merely the utilitarian concern of landing some job later on. And, with this, students should pursue in their majors what they love and what genuinely interests them--even if it is art. Eye-wink I would rather be a starving artist than a blissfully ignorant but well-fed MBA.

carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 10:02pm.

I would rather be a starving artist than a blissfully ignorant but well-fed MBA.

I kept thinking about how much I agreed with that statement and then I came across this article: “The financial system nearly collapsed because smart guys had started working on Wall Street.”

Smart is as smart does, I suppose.

It's not easy being the carbonunit

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 10:50pm.

You need to try another bar in southwest D.C. called 'Horse Feathers'.

Back in the day, circa 1980's - 90’s, you could have lunch at Horse Feathers, with the dreaded "lobbyists", and pretty much plan for your retirement money market account around what was discussed. God I love the DoD!

Based on the results of those 'dry martinis' and shots of tequila that I paid for, they were the best investments I ever made.

From what I've seen government contracting, and the protection of it, was, is and will continue to be the best investment going, bar none.

Wall Street 'ain't got nothen' on government contracting and a dry martini.

The difference between 'Wall Street' and 'Government contracting' is that you haven't been reading about the disgustingly huge profits being made from 'government contracting' lately.

And all this time people thought a $300.00 ball-peen screwdriver was expensive.

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 12:26am.

Muddle, you would have loved my grandfather. His family was originally from Atlanta, but he grew up in East Point. East Point, back in the day, was like Buckhead is now. People from East Point were living in high cotton until 1929 came at which point my grandfathers father lost everything. As was common in that day, he left town to "find work" and never came home leaving my great grandmother, who was crippled from a bout with meningitis, to fend for herself and eight children. My grandfather and his twin were the oldest of their siblings and took upon themselves the duties of being the men of the house. They dropped out of school, The Atlanta Boys School, and took to shining shoes in the streets of Atlanta to earn a living. In addition to shoe shining, they would also pick up any little odd and end job that could be found.

My great grandmother subsequently sold off nearly everything they owned. That is, everything except a set of World Book encyclopedias which she used to teach her boys when they came home from working. They may have had to put in a man's day of working at the age of thirteen, but they did not have to be uneducated.

According to the oral history my grandfather gave me, life during the Depression was harder for city folk because they couldn't grow food in concrete. Eventually, World War II broke and he joined the Army while his brother (my uncle Don) joined the Navy. They military provided for them daily nutrition, something they had not had since they were small children. My grandfather went to the European theatre while Uncle Don was in the Pacific. He met and married my grandmother while in basic training in Mississippi.

Shortly after returning home, finding a job was still not so easy. For a little extra money he took part in a study being conducted by a Georgia Tech professor. The professor was using standardized tests to gauge I.Q.'s. To his surprise, my grandfather, with his seventh grade education, tested at an I.Q. of 150. Granddaddy then took it upon himself to pursue further education and eventually graduated top of his class from Georgia Tech with a degree in engineering.

The point to this story is that his mother was smart in insisting that they pursued knowledge. He used to always tell me that just because a person is poor or works with his hands, does not mean that he has to remain ignorant. He also used to say: "To be ignorant is excusable, everyone begins there; but, to be ignorant by choice or indifference is simply stupid!"

Those encyclopedias are still in the family. My aunt has them now....oh, what I wouldn't give to have them.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 7:33am.

I think of a passage from Allan Bloom's The Closing of the American Mind:

. . . fathers and mothers have lost the idea that the highest aspiration they might have for their children is for them to be wise - as priests, prophets or philosophers are wise. Specialized competence and success are all that they can imagine. (p. 58)

Bloom compares family members of his own generation, cousins, etc., who had advanced degrees with some sort of "specialized competence," to his grandparents, who never saw the inside of any institution of higher learning. He notes that their home provided a spiritually rich atmosphere, due to the worldview that they consciously practiced, combined with a deep respect for learning. His assessment was that the grandparents had acquired wisdom and showed the marks of a true education, whereas the various professionals of his generation tended to lack these. His cousins had formidable technical skills; his grandparents had wisdom.

When I was going to school in Cincinnati and living in a rural area of KY, I knew a man in my church who spent his days farming--raising tobacco, mostly. But he had a keen interest in a number of subjects and would often borrow books from me. I would get them back dirty. For instance, the bottom edge of the pages was always black as he would rest the book on his overalls as he read. But it was clear that he had given them a careful reading, as he always wanted to discuss the contents with me. He had no aspiration to move up to a new career; he was retired. And he wasn't out to impress anyone. He just had a natural wonder that spurred him to continue his education.
I still have those "dirty books" on my shelves, and they make me remember this gentleman who understood more than most the true purpose of an education.

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 12:32pm.

Yes, it all boils down to having an innate curiosity about the world around you. Also, the ability to maintain that childlike wonder we once had as children - back when we wanted to know everything. For some, that curiosity is insatiable. With or without a formal education, Guttenberg gave us the most amazing gift ever given to humanity - the access to books and literacy.

I would have to agree that 'formal' education is not prerequisite for vocation, just as intellect is not required for wisdom.

Submitted by Bonkers on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 7:38pm.

I think it was James and John who asked Jesus if they could sit at the right and left hand of Jesus in Glory! I suppose they may have duked it out for the right instead of left seat anyway.

They weren't Saints at that time, I assume, nor were their names James and John, but they felt as if they were better than all others, apparently, at that point. Anyway they didn't get the seats they requested simply for asking, probably---or better yet--even thinking about it! The assignment of seats wasn't in His job description.

Most attorneys write what they write by a set of rules, just as do PhD's.

However almost all of the major decisions that have been made by the leaders since humanity was established, have been made by either intelligent or powerful men---not lawyers and PhD's.
This is not to denigrate lawyers nor PhD's, but just to indicate that it takes all kinds.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 7:09am.

What in blue blazes are you talking about?

Submitted by Davids mom on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 10:34am.

. . .that I hear is that it doesn't take a 'degree' or 'power' to demonstrate wisdom and integrity. There are many that I have encountered with neither 'degree' or 'power' that have demonstrated great wisdom coupled with integrity. I wish our leaders, local and national, could all be described as having 'wisdom'/integrity'.

Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 8:40am.

Blue blazes, huh?

I think you know precisely what I am talking about.

On the other hand, your description of those formally educated and those not makes no sure sense, nor clearly states no opinion.

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 8:00am.

forgive him for he knows not what he says...

Sniffles had the same affliction.. Can't wait to see that run for office.

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 10:59am.

It calls to mind one of Deborah Winger's lines in Shadowlands:

"Are you trying to be offensive or merely stupid?"

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 7:18am.

And I can appreciate you not taking it personally my examples of the over-abundance of fine arts degrees that keep so many from maximizing their potentials as productive citizens because of their reliance on them to obtain a successful career. You are a gem and an asset to your employer. Perhaps you have the mindset to run your own business Dawn. If you ever do I will be your most vocal cheerleader. I so love the entrepreneurial mindset.

Jeez, Git, why haven't these people been taught proper work ethic?

These are the same people that compare todays economic sufferings to those of the Great Depression. We are a such spoiled society.

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 9:44pm.

I have been in manufacturing for 12 years now and have worked in multinational firms. I agree that we have lost a large portion of three generations who do not want to work, but want to be entitled. Our trades need to be honestly appraised and appreciated compared to most liberal arts college tracks. I am all for open competition within our own borders with companies. Good ones would survive and good employees would prosper. I am tired of watching our companies go overseas and dealing with the absolute graft that is found there. I am tired of beating a free trade drum that only operates in one direction-into US markets unimpeded. More on it later. thanks for the thoughts

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 11:31pm.

We absolutely need to rebuild our manufacturing, but I fear it to be a moot endeavor unless great strides are taken to secure intellectual property. This has been of huge concern since opening trade with China and has proved to be detrimental to many American companies because either they can not compete with a Chinese thief or they refrain from dealing with China for fear of a breach in IP.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 10/13/2009 - 10:05pm.

out of 20 cars manufactured in the world 17 were built in the USA. Now GM is on the ropes and Chrysler has partnered with Fiat.

We surpassed England just over 100 years ago as the dominant industrial center of the world. They choose a path that slowly bled their economy. Then after fighting both world wars their economy was spent while we enjoyed the fruits of our strong economy. As their economy dipped they slid politically to the left and tried different schemes to save this industry or that in order to keep everyone employed. Those schemes failed miserably. The bureaucracy that was created to satisfy those leftist schemes was forced upon their remaining industries and ultimately prevented them to compete in the world market.

The scary part is, we seem to be following the same path as they took. In order to re emerge as a world leader again, we need to apply our brain trust to do things better, faster, and cheaper. If we don't, China or India will.

So sayeth the Cyclist.
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 9:16am.

Do we necessarily need to be the leader of the world in all things? We had an unprecedented and artificial economic dominance over the rest of the world after WW2. We were always going to be brought back down to a more comparative situation becaus ethe world is filled with talented people. My take on it is to be much more home focused.
Our desire to do things cheaper has sent most of our manufacturing overseas. There is something called balance of trade that we have been failing at for 30 years. It is a great flow of funds heading overseas.
My point is that there is no nation that our companies can compete truly "freely" with the world over. It is time for the playing field to be leveled. But understand, there will be a significant tradeoff to do so.

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 10:17am.

Last spring, when the restaurant I worked for was facing closure, many people asked me "How are you going to make it?". While I appreciated their concern, my answer was always: "I'll make it. Whats the alternative? Sometimes in life you just have to redefine for yourself exactly what 'making it' means."

I would say that this same premise applies to economics on a larger, local and national, scale. Ironically, while products have got cheaper over the years the average non-secured debt of households has more than tripled since 1990. It just doesn't jive. One would think that if goods are cheaper that the need for jacking up debt would be less. Unless....and here's a thought...we have all gotten way to gluttonous in thinking that we need more. It seems that we are very much like sharks - we grow to fit the size of our container. The bigger the houses get, the more junk we need to fill them.

I remember my grandmothers' house growing up. She had no dining room - didn't need one as there was plenty of room in the kitchen for a decent table. She did not have two story ceilings - didn't need that either as she was only 5'7". She did not have a separate living room and den - there was one room that served that purpose. And my mom and her two sisters shared a bedroom. On my grandmothers walls were paintings of butterflies that my grandfather had painted for her - not a lot of expensive store bought 'decorations' and she did not have an abundance of silly nick knacks unless it was something the grandchildren had made in school. The only thing she had that was in any way extravagant was the set of encyclopedias that served as more entertainment than the black and white television in the 'living room'. I would say that these days, we have gotten away from the basics in life. I, for one, would love to get back to the basics.

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 8:19am.

Dawn, I think most of us have ancestors that lived simplier than we do today. I used to go to my grandmother's house and think about the small space that my mom and uncle grew up in. But it worked for them and would work for us. I would like to live simplier to a point.
To go back to a house that small would necessitate a change in neighborhood. Houses that small tend to be in neighborhoods with a bit more crime and turmoil these days. But there is still much we can do without living completely like Thoreau

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 12:13pm.

"I would like to live simpler to a point."

Oh yes, don't get me wrong. I don't want to live so basic that I'm hanging clothes on a line. Smiling

That reminds me, a while back there was a scam in which a man placed an ad selling "Solar Powered Dryers" for $50. Those that were taken in by this scam received in the mail a length of clothes line.

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 12:37pm.

“The more you know, the less you need.” - Australian Aboriginal Proverb

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 2:44pm.

I like that one. Here's another:

"He who know that enough is enough will always have enough." - Lao Tzu


The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 9:16am.

I had a wierd double post so I thought I would fill it with the weather. Definitely out of the drought, huh?

Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 8:39am.

we need to apply our brain trust to do things better, faster, and cheaper. If we don't, China or India will.

I would add to that 'brain trust' - goals that are small on 'greed' and big on 'integrity'.

Joe Kawfi's picture
Submitted by Joe Kawfi on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 11:39pm.

Wanting to keep what you earn out of the clutches of the incompetent, corrupt U.S. government is not greed. The U.S. government only knows how to confiscate, spend and waste money- they have no clue on how to create it. (Except Obama- he thinks that it's perfectly fine to just print it as he needs it)

Greed could be defined as being too lazy to get off of your lazy bum and go out and EARN a living. There are too many greedy people who are satisfied with leeching off of productive citizens or robbing them outright instead of working for a living.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

SPQR's picture
Submitted by SPQR on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 3:26pm.

"we have met the enemy and they are us" ( Walt Kelly) just one more pithy proverb. Never forget WE are the U.S. government.

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Wed, 10/14/2009 - 4:07pm.

They are the backbone of this Country and employ somewhere between 75% and 85% of all employed.. They are who we need to focus on.. Not the likes of GE who goes to bed with Government.

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

Submitted by Blah Blah on Thu, 10/15/2009 - 12:21pm.

Small businesss take advantage of hard working employees. Not providing health care or retirements and usually they the biggest tax cheaters.


S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 10/16/2009 - 8:14am.

as flaming IDIOTS.. But you fit the description very well.

You are obviously an uneducated BOOB.. Please try to spend my money wisely and stop cashing those welfare checks at the liquor store. Jack Daniels is not on the food pyramid..

"A Government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." Thomas Jefferson

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