Code language for RACIST? Since when does receiving health care become a racist issue? When an American has to depend on ER for health care, the taxpayer pays for it. This has become very expensive - right? Sick comes in all colors. (When certain people get tired of debating an issue with me, they call me a racist. FYI)

Maxiane Waters, D. Watson and many Hollywood insiders all say "If your against Healthcare for all.. You're RACIST"... In your own words two issues you harp on is Race and Racism.. It colors everything you say.
So with that knowledge I stand by what I said.. You let a little slip out.

As far as debating you.. That's like taking a walk around the block.. Doesn't tire me out and something I can do in my sleep.

Again I will ask you Show me the homeless, sick, indigent or any minority that has been turned away and refused care!!

Reform is one thing... Overhaul is something else..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON

Show me the homeless, sick, indigent or any minority that has been turned away and refused care!!

Leave your comfort zone and visit any urban or rural area in our country. Sit in a waiting room at Grady with a Medicaid Card - and compare the service one gets with the service you get. Health care is a business, and if one can't pay - one doesn't get served. If you're sick - you won't be allowed to die (although, one woman not too long ago died in the waiting room in a large urban hospital) If many of the poor could afford at least preventative care - their health situation might be different.

to the ER.. I believe I have stepped out of my comfort zone a little more than most..

"compare the service one gets with the service you get. Health care is a business, and if one can't pay - one doesn't get served. "

BS.... DM Your one sided myopic view of the world sometimes astounds me... EVERY IDIGENT /HOMELESS OR ILLEGAL ALIEN GETS TREATMENT. No matter what..

There are health clinics in every COUNTY.. There are MOBIL clinics that setup in different locations weekly.. All the poor has to do is get up and go.. they get FREE health checkups.. It's called personal responsibility.. instead of waiting for someone else to do it for them.. they must take the initiative to get it done.

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON

. . .after you have hauled them to ER - and they're released - who treats them? Have you volunteered in a free clinic? Do you know how many they have to turn away because of lack of doctors and nurses? They can only serve so many of the 'indigent' that you haul. We’re also talking about health care for those middle class, hard working people who have suddenly been diagnosed with a disease that REQUIRES TREATMENT THAT THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR IF THEY DON'T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE. You have been fortunate to work for employers that provided you with 'benefits'. Think about the less fortunate. No one is talking about giving anyone FREE healthcare! We are asking our legislators to come up with an honest assessment of how we can afford to improve the health care in our country so that all can afford health care - including preventative treatment. The problem is how to finance this. If we can finance going to the moon, providing coverage for all of our children - I think we have the 'intelligence' to look at our system, clean up the waste and fraud, and provide affordable health care.

the 'so called' health care reform that waste and fraud would be done away with. The reality is that anything run by our government becomes bloated with waste and fraud and to all intents and purposes becomes just another boondoggle. And, if you are going to point out Medicare--look what has happened there. People who never paid into Medicare are now receiving Medicare--and they are saying the money won't be there much longer. Until our government is made accountable or makes the responsible people accountable things will never change.

Same thing on the state level. Funds from the lottery was to go to education and little by little this money had been siphoned off into other areas (to say nothing of the big bonuses paid to lottery workers) and now the Hope Scholarship fund is floundering. Politicians never seem to follow thorough on what is promised and we never hold them to their word. Nothing will change until we, the people change, and demand more of our elected officials.

Can't argue with the reality you state. I'm interested in the proposal that Senator Snow (R) is proposing (Trigger Proposal). Whatever is the outcome - the plan must have regulations that are monitored and enforced.

From Politico:

Could Olympia Snowe offer the breakthrough Democrats need for a public option in health care?CNN is reporting that the White House, having largely ditched Republican Gang-of-Sixers Chuck Grassley and Mike Enzi, is in serious negotiations with Snowe about whether she would support a public option that only goes into effect years down the road if the private insurance industry doesn't come through with the type of reforms that cover more uninsured people.This so-called "trigger" option may not be a silver bullet for a bipartisan breakthrough on health reform, but it might draw just enough hesitant Democratic moderates -- with cover from Snowe as a Republican supporter -- while appeasing liberals who are insisting on some kind of a public option.The White House will have to frame this trigger proposal as something short of a mandate for government insurance, while still promising its base that the public option is out there as a threat to insurance companies who don't shape up.Snowe has been a advocate for this trigger option for some time, but this is the first time that the White House seems to be engaged on this front.

.

S.Lindsey -

DM is right. You didn't work to get the health insurance that you receive. You just hit life's lottery and are more fortunate than others.

You don't deserve your health insurance just because you decide to get up out of bed every day and go to work, you are just more fortunate than others and you need to spread your wealth.

You didn't have to graduate from high school and/or college and take the initiative to learn something that might provide a valuable service to your employer to get a job, you are just more fortunate than the high school drop out that decided to skip class and go smoke some blunts.

Face it S. Lindsey, you just hit life's lottery and now you need to give some of what you have to the people too lazy to go out and get a job.

You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.

There is a difference between urgent care and 'treatment'. The indigent you MAY have taken to ER got first aide/life saving care - and then they were back on the street. . .and you know it. THAT IS NOT THE HEALTH CARE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT! What planet do you live on? You have to make up stuff rather than 'debate' based on fact. Bye again - your gray matter is dull.

ok you win
There are dead people lying around everywhere.. Sick people and people with broken legs dragging themselves thru the streets. Yep AMERICA SUCKS... There are you happy now??

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON

What is it about wanting to discuss race and racism on this and other blogs that you don't understand? Three years ago I made it clear that was why I was here. I think others understood - and made a decision to participate or not. Progressives/liberals are not all 'black' - and what I shared was an email coming from known progressives or liberals. Some had the intelligence to respond to it without feeling they had to denigrate the messenger. Your style of debate is to denigrate the messenger. So be it. This is an intelligent group of people - they will decide what is 'reality' for them. Thanks for your input. Maxine Waters and Diane Watson represent their constituents. . .as do all members of Congress. Are you sharing your opinions with your representatives? The health care legislation is in their hands

...don't you know by now that Obama is a hate-whitey, IslamoChristianist, Nazi-socialist-commie loving baby-eating alien who communicates with his minions by using secret gang signs:

Obama Gang Signs

Some conservatives are really trying to convince me!

(You know - this type of attempt at discrediting/denigrating the President is hurting rather than helping the conservative cause. There is enough sincere difference in approach to governing that is based on principle - that this type of 'lunacy' is not at all necessary.) Oh well . . . .

It's amazing how all you liberals have repented of your sins and been washed by the blood of the lamb, now that your side is in office. Unfortunately, all the "lunacies" from your side are documented here in perpetuity. Oh I forget, that was all necessary THEN. Right?

Sorry - but I really don't remember that level of degradation of Bush. Muslim? Communist? Socialist? Unchristian? gang member? etc., etc., etc.
I do remember accusation of AWOL, recovered drunk, etc., etc., etc. - but that didn't keep him out of office. My side? Hmmmm - OK. I guess calling names makes the name caller feel better - but it doesn't seem to have much affect on an election - right?

I've got to learn to give the tech thing time to work before hitting the return thingy too soon!

If I might wade into the "shallows" of your debate on race:
-JC Watts nor Herman Cain are liberals. What does that prove?
-Rep Jefferson and Sen Craig represented their constituents. Does that make them role models?
-Reality is an individual interpretation. Truth and facts get distorted.
-Bigotry and bias are learned traits. One's opinion does not make them correct.
-The art of learning requires an open mind, cognitive skills and a work ethic. Conservatism is not a character disorder.

Have a nice day!

Where are they advocating 'free' health care? The term is 'affordable' for all citizens. Both conservatives and progressives are together on this issue.

DM, I never said free. Welfare/medicaid and the like are all on a scale-ahhhh affordable.

I can't get into the other items you mentioned. All I can tell you is that when I have just lost several friends on 9/11 and one near miss (got on an earlier flight) I don't care how you catch the people who did it, and can do it again.

And President Clinton? Who changed the social spectrum of the united states and reassured people everywhere about the birds and the bees-Big Billy Style!

DM, you need some way to help in a positive way instead of annonymously griping about the way things are not the way you think they need to be. Why don't you go after the "no child left behind" is in fact leaving many children behind. or where the money went in New Orleans? or how to find out who is a terrorist in a kind way? just a few things you gripe about....go change it then.

First, that is one fine list of liberal talking points your blog opened with. Same old $#!^ we have seen numerous times. All hashed, rehashed and largely debunked.

Second, you are crazy if you really think conservatives and progressives are together on this ruse. Simply making healthcare affordable for all citizens would not be a trillion dollar Pandora's box. Legislating change to insurance companies and medical conglomerations to control costs would be one thing. This is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than that. You know good and well the cost could not approach these numbers without give-aways. They are trying to permanently buy voting blocks that will be indebted for decades. Why work for something when someone else can work for you? Money for nothing and living large for free (apologies to Dire Straits)!!!

As I have mentioned to you here previously....if everyone who doesn't have health coverage is forced to go to an emergency room and they are currently doing that, why change anything? Keeping the status quo will not add trillions to the deficit. Is it the optimal solution? No. But, it is a hell of a lot cheaper. That logic alone tells you this is all more pork-a-licious lies. Even factcheck.org is exposing Barry about abortions being included, keeping our current coverage, etc. All these little side deals like bailing out GM and Chrysler didn't come free did they? They had to agree to union support of this "reform". Politics as usual. Your side is drunk with power and has bit off more than they can chew. Some of us see this. Others do not.

"You finally got mad when.. when... wait for it... when the government decided that people in America deserved the right to see a doctor if they are sick."

Finally, that sentence is indicative of how you think. Health care is not a right. Show us where that right was granted. Food and shelter aren't rights either, or there would be no homeless people. People should see a doctor if they are sick. That already exists today if needed and can't be afforded. The real sickness is the government manufacturing new "rights" that are really political agendas. One right we all have in common is the pursuit of happiness. Priorities and decisions are up to each person

if you really think conservatives and progressives are together on this ruse.
Those who have posted on this and many other blogs are 'together' in seeking AFFORDABLE health care for those who live in the United States. We spend millions providing health care for those in foreign countries and victims of catastrophes. Surely we can make sure that health care remain affordable in the United States - and not just for children, but for all Americans.

I could not agree more about the money we spend in foreign countries providing health care. The pressure on our country to continue that is immense, even from inside the U.S. That ain't changing.

I don't think anyone on here ever has posted against "AFFORDABLE" health care. If that was what was truly being proposed, we'd all stand up and get behind it. The problem is that is not what this debacle really is. People who currently have no insurance are not being fixed up with "AFFORDABLE" health care. They are being set up with "FREE" health care. Big difference. If they cannot afford it now, what level of "AFFORDABLE" will be realistic for them? $50 per month? $100 per month? How can they pay that if they are truly poor? How can they pay that when they have the requisite cell phone bills that must be paid? How can they pay that when they just got rid of that clunker for a fresh new ride and the new payments slap them in the face? Who then will pay for health care for them? The rest of us. Really simple. More giveaways at our further expense. That is what most of us are against. If they were really reducing "ALL" our health care costs, we'd be all over that. If I have to pay for someone else to go to the doctor or hospital, how is that "AFFORDABLE" to me? I do not believe for one second that my costs will go down when the dust settles. Rest assured, "AFFORDABLE" health care the uninsured people will receive is coming at someone else's expense. Either through even higher deficits, current coverage cuts, higher taxes, rationed health care, long waits in line for treatment, or a million other sacrifices .......from somebody else.

People who currently have no insurance are not being fixed up with "AFFORDABLE" health care. They are being set up with "FREE" health care.

If that is your reading of the reality - OK. Nowhere in HR3200 is the word 'free' mentioned. Healthcare professionals must be paid just like the rest of us. It is my understanding that much of the fraud and waste that is now being uncovered will reduce the healthcare and prescription cost and makes it more affordable for all Americans. Already some insurance companies are advertising cheaper premiums, no penalties for pre-existing conditions, etc., getting ready for the 'reform' and the competition either from a public option or other insurance companies. Monitored regulations and criteria that is adhered to will make those who are making bad choices with their finances own up to what they can afford. I've been on Medicare (a government run program) for over 5 years. I have never had to wait in line, never been denied care or treatment, never been treated like a second-class citizen. I have never been on Medicaid - and that may be different. I belong to a very large pool of retired citizens - and as such, my secondary insurance is most generous. My out of pocket cost is still over $2600 annually. In the past 5 years, my medical expenses without insurance would have devoured by savings. I feel that I can afford my health insurance, and will not be making a change. Without a change in our current healthcare system - the cost will continue to rise. There are corporations and businesses that are thriving off the current system - and want nothing to change. By the way, did you realize that the taxpayers made about $4 million so far from interest on the repaid loan from some financial institutions? These guys want to pay back that give-away money - because the interest is mounting. It wasn't a give-away program.

Here is what I don't get. If fraud and waste are being uncovered and that will reduce healthcare and prescription costs.....If insurance companies are advertising cheaper premiums and lowering costs in anticipation of competition.....If regulations will uncover those who make bad financial choices and make them own up to what they can truly afford.....If Medicare is not really being gutted, it's just that way on paper.....then how and why is the CBO projecting trillion dollar deficits as a result of "reform"? How could all those great things cost us in the trillions or really much at all for that matter? And who in the world would oppose those great things?

Could it possibly be a pig-in-a-poke??????????

That's why I want to see some NUMBERS - and a clear explanation of where these trillions of dollars are going to and coming from. Also, I want to see where the interest from the loans (give-away programs) is going. The sad truth about the bureaucracy of government is that any change of methods of operating takes such a long time - and if any of this economic jargon is true - and we're running out of money - shouldn't we all be honestly scared to death? When our legislators get back to work, they are going to be dealing with a very informed electorate.. .with some fact-based questions - not just rhetoric. They will have to SHOW how this reform is going to be paid for; how monitoring will occur; what the consequences are for those who do not follow regulations, etc. I counted three or four insurance companies advertising today on TV with 'lower premiums', no pre-existing conditions being refused, etc. I also wonder why some 'changes' cost so much! Reform is needed - but I feel politics is getting in the way. With so many out of work, and no income and no insurance - one has to be thankful for what he has. I will be furious if this turns out to be a political 'pig in a poke' ploy. The rhetoric regarding 'death panels' and killing off seniors (me), and being able to accomplish reform with no deficit spending is an insult to anyone's intelligence – but a trillions of dollars projected deficit doesn't make sense either. Most citizens, regardless of ideology, want reform/improvement to the cost and deliverance of American healthcare.

Thanks for your opinion!

if everyone who doesn't have health coverage is forced to go to an emergency room and they are currently doing that, why change anything?

You may be diagnosed for cancer or some other sickness in ER - but you can't get treatment.

"You may be diagnosed for cancer or some other sickness in ER - but you can't get treatment."

Not true DM. I personally know two people who were diagnosed with cancer and neither had any insurance. One had liver cancer and started treatment at a Newnan hospital. He was eventually sent to Emory and received top notch treatment for months. The other was referred to Emory immediately. Neither could believe their good fortune (in the face of terrible misfortune) to have access to the resources of Emory. FYI, neither were Medicaid recipients, at least not prior to arriving at Emory. All both had to do was prove the inability to pay. If people with deadly diagnoses were being turned away consistently and left to die, Diane Sawyer, Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer would not be able to contain themselves. It would be a news feeding frenzy. Especially right now.

Most seriously ill people who are poor and have no insurance don't go to the EM until they are already about the same as dead!

Even they have some dignity having to prove they are broke. We need to get away from that. Even people with assets don't want to spend them all on one hospital visit! Or owe hundreds of thousands for the rest of their lives! Don't be stupid!

Do you know anyone who could pay without insurance?
I heard Sam Donaldson of ABC news---many times a millionaire---say yesterday that he had a heart valve operation of hundreds of thousands that cost him 1800 dollars due to Medicare! Probably take-in food and a suite!

I wondered when you would chime in with your irrelevant comments on this. DM's statement was that you could be diagnosed at an ER (is that the same as an EM?), but not treated. I provided examples that I have seen that refute that. The discussion wasn't whether it would break anyone if they had to pay themselves. It was whether they could receive treatment or not. Making a value judgement between dignity and personal finances is up to each person. Try to focus when you read.

The fact that you think "reform" is going to lower the charges for treatment in a hospital is to be expected. Contributing taxpayers will just be footing more of the bills. Doctors will not work for minimum wage. Why should they? School loans and malpractice insurance still have to be paid, unless Barry is going to make us fund that too. The charges will still be astronomical and Barry's "reform" won't change that. Just millions more people suckling on the old government teat.

You are right. I looked at HR 3200 using Adobe search and I can't find anything about providing "free" healthcare. But, this leaves me curious about those that are unemployed. I would have figured that HR 3200, as written, would acknowledge that particularly since the "left" authored it. But strangely it not obvious or it’s well hidden in the language.
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Would the unemployed qualify for some aid under Medicaid? (I really don't know - just asking)

I'M NOT SURE IF THE ANSWER IF FOUND HERE

I don't think so. I'm surprised it's not mentioned in HR 3200.
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There is NO BILL yet to argue. It is being worked out by staff right now and will be considered after congress reconvenes.

Arguing who is covered by insurance and who is not is useless. Everyone is to be covered in one of several choices---that is it.

You will never notice the difference in your taxes for years if ever.

Do the correct thing and help get a bill out of congress.

We are aware of it. Notice that I correctly noted that in my post it's HR 3200.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.