OPINION – Democrats’ healthcare and small business

Cal Beverly's picture

Part 2 of the continuing horror

I’m reading the thousand-plus-page House healthcare act from the perspective of a small-business person running a business of under 20 employees.

So I’m coming to the project with this out-in-the-open bias: How is this proposed change in healthcare going to affect one small company, its employees, me and my family?

I said last week that the bill yet to be voted on by the full House is even worse than its opponents have painted it to be.

In the first few pages, I’ve read that the bill’s purpose is to “set standards guaranteeing access to affordable coverage, essential benefits, and other consumer protections.”

What’s “affordable”? A Ferrari is “affordable” to some folks. It’s not “affordable” to me. Should Congress pass a law mandating that the only automobiles allowed to be sold must cost under ... what? $40,000? $30,000? $20,000? See the problem?

If you say, “Well, it’s not the government’s business to set prices for cars,” I’d reply, “Exactly. So why are the Democrats trying to do that very thing for medical care?”

I’ve seen the argument that requiring every American to submit to either paying for a health policy or paying a tax penalty in lieu of that coverage is analogous to the state requiring every driver to possess a minimum amount of automobile liability insurance.

That’s a false argument. If I choose not to own or operate a car — relying on the much ballyhooed “public transit” option — no law is going to force me to pay for car insurance. Driving is considered a “privilege,” allowing the state to require insurance.

Healthcare coverage is no more a “privilege” than life insurance coverage is, however wise it might be to carry life coverage.

And why has healthcare suddenly become a “right,” occupying a higher notch even than the also recently discovered “right” to housing?

Where is such a “right” enshrined in our nation’s constitution? A right is something that you innately possess, to exercise or not to exercise as you choose. A right is not something for which you can present a bill to a government and demand payment for your “right” from other citizens, even if those other citizens object to paying for your “right.” But I digress.

In pages 15-16 of HR 3200, we’ve discovered that the current health plan that my business partially pays for must — within five years — meet the Democrat Commissar’s standards (see last week’s installment for explanations of the Commissar and her vast powers).

We’ve found that my current plan is grandfathered in for those five years, with an important exception: After HR3200 becomes law, my health plan cannot enroll any additional employee that I may hire.

So what happens to the new employees? More on that later.

On pages 17-18 is what nobody is telling you: Yes, you can choose whatever plan you can pay for — for five years.

What nobody is saying is this: After year five, “an employment-based health plan in operation as of the day before the first day of [year] one must meet the same requirements as apply to a qualified health benefits plan” as decided by the Commissar.

In other words, all — ALL! — plans must offer essentially the same coverages, with the same benefits and with the same “consumer protections.”

Cookie-cutter plans — and that’s what Obama calls “choice”?

Like Henry Ford famously said about color choices among his early automobiles: “They can have any color they want, so long as it is black.”

Starting on page 19, the bill mandates that insurance companies cannot refuse coverage because of your pre-existing conditions. Then it sets up “insurance rating rules.”

You read correctly: The free market, private system of every company determining its own levels of acceptable risk in exchange for issuing insurance will be against the law.

Instead, the government will now take over that function.

One size fits all. Obama knows best — better than any actuary, better than any insurance company, better than you. The Commissar will enforce this specialized form of government price-fixing.

On pages 21-22, the Commissar and her helpers will “conduct a study of the large group insured and self-insured employer health care markets. Such study shall examine the following:

“(A) The types of employers by key characteristics, including size, that purchase insured products versus those that self-insure.

“(B) The similarities and differences between typical insured and self-insured health plans.

“(C) The financial solvency and capital reserve levels of employers that self-insure by employer size.

“(D) The risk of self-insured employers not being able to pay obligations or otherwise becoming financially insolvent.

“(E) The extent to which rating rules are likely to cause adverse selection in the large group market or to encourage small and midsize employers to self-insure.”

I quoted that in its entirety because it is so breathtaking in its invasive scope. The Democrats’ Commissar will launch audits of any company she so chooses. Why?

Page 22-23: “Such report shall include any recommendations the Commissioner deems appropriate to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure or create adverse selection in the risk pools of large group insurers and self-insured employers.”

Starting on page 24, the Commissar will inspect “provider networks” (that’s doctors and hospitals, all of them) to bring these tens of thousands of private businesses into line with the Commissar’s rules.

That is simply breathtaking. To use a favorite teen word: This is an “awesome” expansion of government power over private enterprise.

Beginning on page 25, the Democrats and their appointed Commissar will determine what “essential benefits” will be covered.

No arguments or free market choices, now, you unruly mob of Rush Limbaugh-controlled miscreants. Obama — and his army of bureaucrats — know what benefits you should have and you will get them whether you like them or not.

No messy shopping list of optional benefits and multiple levels of coverages now available under our free market system. Be glad to escape such confusing choices — the Democrats will choose for you.

We examined the Health Benefits Advisory Committee (and its admirable inclusion of at least one practicing doctor among its expert panelists) in last week’s installment.

And we covered the “additional consumer protections” last week as well, including the penalty section that allows any employee of just about any size small business to file a federal complaint against the employer under the Consumer Product Safety Act (!).

I wonder how much my yearly liability insurance premium will get jacked up by this new set of federal healthcare violations risks. No Obama bailout money is available for me to pay that new, increased business expense.

The bill spells out beginning on page 57 the Commissar’s requirements for “financial and administrative transactions.”

That innocuous language will mean that innumerable doctors’ offices and hospitals and clinics will have to line up their billing practices with the new federal regulations. Goodbye, paper; hello, standardized computers — in every medical office, in every state — within five years.

I suspect the Democrats don’t expect tax money to pay for those mandated small-business expenses.

OK, here’s the first really scary personal intrusion part: Page 58.

The medical care billing rules require the following (and this is verbatim from the bill):

“(D) Enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card; ...”

Folks, read that paragraph again and tell me you don’t see a government computer terminal bureaucrat scrutinizing your name, your financial and medical history and your national ID card — while you are standing in line, awaiting her determination — before she allows you to get medical care at that particular doctor’s office.

If that does not qualify as scary, I don’t know what would scare you.

Pressing on to page 65, we find the U.S. government setting up a $10 billion “reinsurance” fund “to assist participating employment-based plans” in paying for health benefits for retirees, spouses and dependents.

Now who are these “retirees” that get such additional government money?

Some of you may have guessed that “union” is the hidden word in this Democrat payoff. Yep, union retirees are more special than other retirees, worthy of receiving specialized added tax “investments.”

The bill on page 80 defines who gets hit in three categories: “Smallest employer” has 10 or fewer employees; “smaller employers” are those small businesses with between 11 and 20 employees; and “larger employers,” which is every other business in America with more than 20 workers.

Here comes another Commissar audit. She will require every business to give exhaustive details of what health benefits the business is offering to its workers, how much it costs and its “affordability” (I guess the Commissar will determine the dollar amount that is presumed to meet the “affordability” standard).

In addition the Commissar will (and this is verbatim) “examine ... the affordability-test standard for access of certain employed individuals to coverage in the Health Insurance Exchange.”

Now, that seems to mean that the nosy Commissar will require workers who decline coverage to explain what their finances are and why they are not participating in ObamaCare.

Section 203 on page 84 gets into the nitty-gritty of what plans may be offered. It’s not complicated:

“Required offering of basic plan — The [insurance company] offers only one basic plan for such service area.”

If the insurer offers a basic plan, then it may offer one — and only one — “enhanced” plan for that service area.

If the insurer offers its one “enhanced” plan, it may also offer one — and only one — “premium” plan for that area.

If the insurer offers its one — and only one — “premium” plan, then it may also offer one or more (!) “premium-plus” plans for that area.

What is a “premium-plus” plan? One that offers “adult oral health and vision care, approved by the Commissioner” (Commissar).

What differentiates the other lower grade plans: something the Democrats call “tiered cost-sharing.” More on that later.

Here’s an interesting little kicker to this section: “The [insurer] shall provide for culturally and linguistically appropriate communication and health services.”

Can’t you just see it now — your insurer sends you your benefits package in all the languages determined to be present in your census tract, from Spanish to Swahili, from Arabic to Zulu. And you’ll meet a swarm of translators required by law to be present at the front desk of every doctor’s office in America.

And Obama is going to save billions and trillions with this plan? But, hey, job creation is job creation, right?

And in Section 205 beginning on page 95: The Commissar “shall establish and carry out an enrollment process for Exchange-eligible individuals and employers, including at community locations ... Such process shall provide for enrollment through means such as the mail, by telephone, electronically, and in person.”

Obama the community organizer, organizes America. Line up in front of Publix and Kroger to get your mandatory federal health ID card issued, on the spot, with your finances checked to see which plan you get.

Don’t want to participate? How about automatic enrollment? The Commissar “shall provide for a process under which individuals who are Exchange-eligible ... are automatically enrolled under an appropriate Exchange-participating health benefits plan. Such process may involve a random assignment or some other form of assignment that takes into account the health care providers used by the individual involved or such other relevant factors at the Commissioner may specify.”

I can’t make such stuff up. It’s right there in HR 3200, pages 97 and 98, in plain text.

Now comes the part you’ll really love, because it involves taking extra money right out of your paycheck or your company payroll.

On page 109, the Democrats create in the “treasury of the United States a trust fund ... to make payments to operate the Health Insurance Exchange ...”

You might ask, where does that money for this new “trust fund” come from? I can’t make this up; it’s right there in HR 3200:

“(A) Taxes on individuals not obtaining acceptable coverage ...

“(B) Employment taxes on employers not providing acceptable coverage ... relating to employers electing not to provide health benefits.

“(C) Excise tax on failures to meet certain health coverage requirements ... with respect to failure to meet health coverage participation requirements.”

That provides me with an authentic and heart-felt “Oh, my God” moment.

Obama and the Democrats are hell-bent on taxing us into oblivion.

Margaret Thatcher, then prime minister of Great Britain, said, “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

We have reached only page 111 of 1,017 pages. Can it get any worse? Yes, as you’ll see in my next installment.

— Posted Aug. 13, 2009, 11:53 p.m.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Addendum, Saturday, Aug.8, 2009: A discussion of "rights"

Let’s have a reasoned conversation based just on the facts and the logic of the healthcare reform issue and its philosophical (or ideological) underpinnings.

Buck, you state that the “essence of the debate starts with the notion that ‘affordable and quality healthcare for every American citizen in our country is a right ... not a privilege.’”

I disagree with the starting point (I think the more fundamental debate is the proper role of government in our constitutional republic), but let’s take your argument on its merits.

Who says that healthcare is a right? Is that open to debate with you, or is that kind of a religious position, unassailable by logic or facts or an examination of our country’s history?

But again, taking your position on the merits, let’s define our terms, starting with “right.”

Is it a right of the same type as the 1st amendment right to free speech, or the 2nd amendment right to bear firearms or the 3rd amendment right ... ? Well, you get my point.

If your right to healthcare is a constitutional right, would you please point out where it is expressed in the U.S. Constitution? Or even a federal court ruling?

If healthcare is — on the other hand — an “unenumerated” right that has to be discovered in the Constitution’s “penumbra” by the U.S. Supreme Court, could you specify where that ruling might be found?

I think the answer to the above questions is that nowhere is such a right recognized by our founding document or by our highest court.

So then, if it’s not in the Constitution or our laws (yet), when did such a “right” show up on the American scene?

More to the point, when did you — Buck — discover YOUR right and MY right to — not just any old healthcare, but “affordable” and “quality” healthcare?

Is this a relatively recent right? It must be, because I’ve got gray hair and I don’t remember anybody — and I mean anybody — asserting such a right until very recently. (Gosh, we need a scorecard to keep up with all of these recently discovered “rights.”)

Or is this a “right” that only people of a certain income or ethnicity or general put-upon-ness or down-and-out-ness may rightly possess and not us self-absorbed types?

Did somebody one day discover this healthcare right? I think I may safety assert that George Washington would have been unaware of such a right, as would Thomas Jefferson and James Madison and all those old guys we don’t pay much attention to anymore. I even have a sneaking suspicion that John F. Kennedy would have been unaware of such a “right,” and he was a pretty progressive fellow.

Buck, do you disagree with the argument so far? If so, specifically what do you disagree with and state your logic behind your position.

You said, “You either believe that and embrace the notion, or you don’t.” I totally agree with your assessment in that statement. You assert and I disagree that healthcare is a right.

I point out what should be self-evident to you: You and I can have all the “notions” we choose to indulge, but our respective “notions” don’t rise to the level of “rights” just because we claim them to be rights.

Or just because we harbor the “notion” that we are morally superior to other, less enlightened, self-absorbed folks.

But to take your argument even a farther step, if there is indeed such a “right” as you assert, how may that “right” be enjoyed by all who possess that new unalienable right?

Like my “cars and healthcare” analogy, Buck, I’ll alert you to this: the following is an analogy.

Suppose that I assert that my 1st amendment right to print what I believe doesn’t end at MY pocketbook.

Suppose I assert that, in furtherance of my 1st amendment right, I must confiscate — let’s say — $20 a week from your bank account so that I may enjoy my 1st amendment right to its fullest extent.

I set $20 because I want to remain “affordable” but I also want my asserted product to be what I consider “quality.”

(By the way, old self-absorbed “I” made that determination about what’s “affordable” and what’s “quality.” You didn’t get to have a say in that determination, did you? How do you feel about that?)

Now further suppose I have sufficient enforcement power to take your $20 a week whether you wish to give it to me or not and that you have no recourse but to submit and let me have it.

After all, it’s only $20 a week. You spend that much a week on morally superior coffee. But your coffee right is inferior to my 1st amendment right and need. You know — the greater good.

So, Buck, what’s wrong with this picture?

Do you really think my “right” extends so far as to require money out of your pocket, without your consent?

Now remember, the rules of this game — which power-hungry and self-absorbed “I” set without any input from you — don’t allow you to resist my taking of your money for my “rightful” purposes.

If the scenario I described above were to really happen, do you suppose you might become a strong advocate of the 2nd amendment and take strong measures to keep me from taking your $20 a week, from here on out, for the rest of your life?

I assert, Buck, that you and your liberal friends on this thread cannot make a coherent, logical, fact-based argument to prove that healthcare is an unalienable right (you remember “unalienable,” don’t you?).

And beyond that, you cannot assert a moral basis for your right to reach into my pocket to steal my money in order for you to pay for treating your ingrown toenail.

You assert a “greater good.” Who gets to determine that “greater good”? Liberals who want to take my money to make themselves feel better about themselves as morally superior to all us self-absorbed moral midgets?

I assert a greater good is freedom of the individual from the coercive and often foolishly ignorant and destructive power of the state — Mr. Obama and the Democrats being the visible agents of such misguided power.

I assert that freedom from the state’s arbitrary and unbridled power is a right — one of those unalienable ones — that is greater than your johnny-come-lately “right” of affordable healthcare at my expense.

If you and your friends have a higher “right” than freedom, then appeal to it and declare its basis.

Otherwise, another one of those old, old rights is your right to feel morally superior to others who disagree with you. It is one of those lesser “rights” nestled in the much bigger one called “freedom.”

From my “self-absorbed” perspective, I think such moral superiority more likely is smug self-righteousness. But, hey, you’re free to disagree.

[The above is a copy of a comment by the author in this thread.]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

If healthcare is neither a right nor a privilege, then what is it? It is a commodity

Healthcare is an artificial construct, a quick policy shorthand for a vast and intricate interrelated set of of products, services, buying and selling decisions and capital.

Individual pieces of that construct are in fact just like bread and milk and truck driving and wholesalers and farmers and buyers and sellers, etc. — individual commodities and individual services offered for sale in a capitalistic free-market economy.

Do you have a "right" to bread? Do you have a privilege to eat bread you neither bought nor baked yourself?

Make an unemotional, fact- and logic-based case for your general and unfettered right or privilege to walk into a grocery store and steal a jug of milk without paying for it.

If you don't have a "right" to something as basic as bread (find that in the Constitution) why do you have a right to free or taxpayer-subsidized services and products from these millions of individual sellers of their services and products?

How should healthcare be distributed? The same way bread and milk are distributed: The individual with the product or service reaches an uncoerced agreement to sell the product or service to the willing buyer at a mutually agreed-upon price.

That's called free-market capitalism. That's what got us this amazing "healthcare" system in the first place.

Charity for truly needy cases should likewise be an individual, noncoerced decision. You have no God-given or otherwise-given "right" to reach into my pocket to take what I worked for and convert it to your own uses without my permission. If I deny permission, get your hand out of my pocket.

My argument is based on the concepts of individual freedom and individual property rights. What is yours based on?

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Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 2:46pm.

. .equals more than 7% in 2009. Right?

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:00pm.

"The Gallup-Healthways Well-Being Index reveals that currently 29.0% of adult Americans who have health insurance get their coverage through the government, a percentage which has increased since early 2008. More than half of insured Americans (56.5%) rely on an employer-based program and another 13.3% of the insured obtain their healthcare coverage through some other means, which includes purchasing it privately for themselves"

Read it for yourself.. and add it up...

Even today most Americans are covered

Stop sipping the koolaid.. it's all HYPE.. Even the "unemployed" have access.. So I will ask this again...WHERE IS THE CRISIS?!?

Oh BTW.. I noticed you failed to answer your defense of Lion's statement that States Rights caused Slavery, Jim Crow and just about every evil known to man... Just letting you know it did not go un-noticed..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:34pm.

What is it with some men who feel they can dictate what a women should respond to? I choose what I respond to. Deal with it! If you aren't sure about the connection between States Rights and the slavery, Jim Crow issues in this country - you need a better history lesson. Read a book! You have great difficulty discussing an issue without being nasty and denigrating a participant - or maybe it's just me that you feel you have to 'put down' or show up. That's your problem Lindsey - I respond when I feel I might clarify a concept or get further information. President Lyndon Johnson led by leverage - and he knew that taking Voting Rights out of the hands of the states angered the south - just as Lincoln knew that prohibiting the growth of slavery in new states in the U. S. would anger the south. The south is still championing 'states rights' - and that term has a lot of unpleasant history to overcome.

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:46pm.

That 1) You can't defend your statement so you deflect it..
2) You can't link States Rights to any of these acts.. so you deflect it
3) You don't want/can't answer a simple questions.. so you deflect it..

So good job... and oh btw.. Please feel free to show me where:

"What is it with some men who feel they can dictate what a women should respond to? I choose what I respond to"

I tried to dictate anything to you? Just asking you to defend your position... It is called a debate for a reason mind you...

"You have great difficulty discussing an issue without being nasty and denigrating a participant - or maybe it's just me that you feel you have to 'put down' or show up"

I was either of these to you on this post.. be my guest..

Like I said good tactics.. Deflect, Criticize, Marginalize and Ridicule.. all good Saul Alinsky rules.. You are after all a good student..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:52pm.

These percentages are of Americans WHO HAVE REPORTED THAT THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF INSURANCE. Do you have the percentages of all Americans? Please - lets' use numbers that represent all Americans - not just those who now have coverage.

Have fun with your assumptions. I know you're frantically looking up the answer to the above question. Have fun! Bye!

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:56pm.

Party HACK... and yes that's me being both NASTY and DEINGRATING..
I guess if I am being accused of it.. I might as well go with the flow..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:21pm.

These percentages are of Americans WHO HAVE REPORTED THAT THEY HAVE SOME KIND OF INSURANCE. Do you have the percentages of all Americans? Please - lets' use numbers that represent all Americans - not just those who now have coverage. We have the largest percent of unemployed and uncovered citizens since the last depression. Who is paying for them to go the ER? You and me. To continue arguing based on ideology is a complete waste of time - and politics at its worst! Most unemployed cannot even pay the COBRA cost if they have had no income for 3 to 5 months. There is a crisis. Be grateful that you and I are not experiencing what so many American citizens are dealing with. There is a crisis - and the accelerating cost of health care is having a huge affect on the US economy. This discussion is healthy – and if these elected officials and economists don’t come up with something concrete within the next two years regarding healthcare for Americans – we need to send them all HOME!! Base concerns on what is best for the American people – and not what your party does or does not say about healthcare. Check the facts – and try to distinguish between fact and rhetoric. Misinformation is coming from many – and the citizens need to wade through all of this and let their representatives know they want actions based on facts – not ideology.

meanoldconservatives's picture
Submitted by meanoldconservatives on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 9:55pm.

"We have the largest percent of unemployed and uncovered citizens since the last depression. Who is paying for them to go the ER? You and me."

Yes, you and I are paying for those unemployed and uncovered citizens to clog our ER's. We're somehow managing that at the current tax rates. Without cutting any existing coverage for our older citizens and adding deficits that my grandchildren's grandchildren will never pay off. Yet in order to cover those same unemployed and uncovered citizens in the proposed "plan", it is going to cost us an additional 1.8 trillion dollars. In other words, if we just let them continue to misuse the ER's, it will save us 1.8 trillion. Then we could work on really reforming health care, instead of providing free coverage to those who don't work in order to buy votes. Nah, no way it could really be that simple....


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 08/19/2009 - 12:07pm.

We're somehow managing that at the current tax rates.

But not for long. Read what CATO says. We need to stop feeling that doing nothing at this time is OK. (and I know you don't feel that way) - but we don't have a long time to get this thing right.

MEDICARE GOES BROKE!

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Wed, 08/19/2009 - 1:51pm.

1.6 Trillon more plus to be exact.. Makes sense to someone I guess..

Cato the source you site.. makes the case to reign in the ENTITTLEMENTS.. not add more on like the "Healthscare bull" does.. Sometimes you make absolutely zero sense.. You want all these entitlements, argue for them religiously then site a "Conservative site" that rails against the same entitlements you are for... Which is it..?

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 3:52pm.

The report clearly stated the current ranks of unemployed have ACCESS to healthcare via Government programs...

If someone is to dang lazy to get up off their butt go down and sign up for the "FREE" healthcare that is already in place.. then SUCKS TO BE YOU if you get sick..
But don't worry you still get healthcare.. NO MATTER WHAT...

SHOW ME THE WAITING LINES.. SHOW ME THE DEAD PEOPLE THAT DIED IN THOSE LINES.. SHOW ME THE HOMELESS DRAGGING BROKEN LEGS BECAUSE THEY WERE TURNED AWAY..

If you can't.. and I know you can't... then

THERE IS STILL NO CRISIS... Get over it..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 08/18/2009 - 2:46pm.

.

Submitted by yellowdog on Mon, 08/17/2009 - 11:45am.

Actually the reference to the pursuit of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in from the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution

Submitted by MYTMITE on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 1:06pm.

not be the unhappy curmudgeon you are. The Constitution guarantees the right to the pursuit of happiness--the rest is up to the individual. The Constitution cannot make you happy nor more than it can guarantee me life--with or without insurance coverage. There are some things neither Democrats or Republicans can accomplish no matter how much money they throw at them.

Submitted by pomsmom on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 11:15pm.

I grew up underprivilaged by today's standards. No color TV ,no car at age 16, no fast food except a sandwich I made myself. We had food,clothes,a house we built a little at a time.(meaning whatever we could pay for before building. My parents taught us to work hard be honest, and one day we would be better. So finally my dad got a job that offered benifits. Of course he had to pay for them. H e taught me to get an education so I would be able to make a good living for my family without relying on uncle sam and the hard working tax paying public to give me everything that other people have.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 7:59am.

You have, whether wittingly or not, arrived at the core issue.

Let's assume that I have a "right to life" that has been endowed by my Creator, as the documents have it.

And consider this little gem of wisdom: Wherever there is a right there is a corresponding duty not to violate that right.

If I have a right to life, then, pretty clearly, barring possible exceptions such as self-defense, warfare, etc., you have a duty to refrain from taking my life. Your duty here is "negative" in the sense that it is a duty not to do certain things.

What is not so clear, and is thus highly controversial among ethicists, is whether my right to life also implies positive duties. If I have a right to life, does this imply that you have a moral duty to provide me with whatever is necessary for the continuation of my life? Perhaps. But we need an argument for thinking so.

The "rights" language that is employed by the health care reform advocates presupposes that the right to life is a positive right implying positive duties, but the notion of such positive duties is problematic at least.

Do not confuse the following two claims:

(1) It would be a very great and good and charitable thing for Jones to provide Smith with whatever Smith requires in order to live.

(2) Jones has a moral duty to provide Smith with whatever Smith requires in order to live.

Many people who remain opposed to the health care proposals on the table will cheerfully subscribe to (1) while thinking that (2) is simply false.

And those who think that (2)--or some variation on (2)--is true, there are several questions to consider:

* Are there any stipulations? Does Jones have a duty to make these provisions for Smith even in the event that Smith is unwilling to make them for himself?

* Even if we suppose that Jones has a moral duty to make such provisions, should we think that he also has a legal obligation to do so? That is, should he be compelled by enforceable law to act on this moral duty? Generally speaking, the notion that "X is morally wrong" should not, by itself, be thought to entail, "X ought to be illegal."


Submitted by pomsmom on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 10:55pm.

I have thought about this pursuit of happiness quite often lately and I think part of this pursuit should involve getting off your behind and finding a way of paying for this pursuit. Without sticking your greedy hand in my pocket.

Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 3:15am.

You got any jobs do you?

Seems one in seven now don't!
How much In surance will $7.00 an hour part-time buy?

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 2:35pm.

Yes, I agree with Mtymite - you need to run for office. We need to stop electing lawyers for public office and only elect those like yourself, those capable of sensible thought processes.

"He is a hard man who is only just, and a sad one who is only wise." -
Voltaire


Submitted by MYTMITE on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 1:00pm.

The President, The Senate, The House of Representatives, The Supreme Court and any other group that might be involved? Your post was the clearest and most direct thing I have read on this issue. thank you.

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 11:46am.

this had been my argument about the NHC bill... You however said it with more eloquence.. applause...

The Government does not have the arthority under the Constitution to force me to be my "brothers" keeper... Nor do they have the Constitutional arthority to do it for me..

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 11:07am.

* Are there any stipulations? Does Jones have a duty to make these provisions for Smith even in the event that Smith is unwilling to make them for himself?

* Even if we suppose that Jones has a moral duty to make such provisions, should we think that he also has a legal obligation to do so? That is, should he be compelled by enforceable law to act on this moral duty? Generally speaking, the notion that "X is morally wrong" should not, by itself, be thought to entail, "X ought to be illegal."

Great to see you about! Hope all is going well for you guys.

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 7:52am.

The constitution only gives a right to the PURSUIT of happiness, how can it guarantee anyone happiness.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 9:35am.

Nor guarantee carrying guns and voting!
We do have the right to continuing raising hell about why we aren't happy with health care!

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 7:49am.

you have a "RIGHT" to life and Happiness.. NO WHERE DOES IT SAY IT IS GURANTEED..
I want to be 20 years younger and 50 pounds lighter that would make me happy.. can I get the Government to give me that? Will you pay for the body work?

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 9:33am.

So you have no guarantee to carry a gun!

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 11:35am.

The 2nd Admendment gives me the RIGHT to "Bear" arms.. it is an Enumerated Right.. it is spelled out in the Constitution. The State can not take away that RIGHT.. they can however attempt to regulate its possession.. ie.. Concealed Carry permit required law..
Healthcare is not a "RIGHT" and Happiness is not Guaranteed..
I believe the exact words are "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" No where does it say you have a RIGHT to "catch it". Cool

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 8:07am.

I want to be taller. But then, my mother always told me to be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

By the way, I sure do hope that Gibbs spends his day checking that list. Gonna find out whose naughty or nice.

"Never, under any circumstance, bend over in front of a politician." - Dawn69


S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 11:41am.

"Never, under any circumstance, bend over in front of a politician." - Dawn69
Especially Barney Franks....Shocked
Naughty.. Bad Girl..BAAAD

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


ManofGreatLogic's picture
Submitted by ManofGreatLogic on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 9:31pm.

I'll say the truth:

Cal, you come across as very arrogant .

Your paper is a one-sided, always-late-on-the-news rag that can't even earn a quarter in a paper bin.

Most of the people in this town and county were blind followers of a fake conservative from Texas, and are now blind leaders of a fake conservative on the radio.

You so-called conservatives (who are nowhere near conservative) are out to lunch and are rapidly approaching a permanent minority.

Want a REAL conservative nation?

Move to Saudi Arabia.

Real Christians are giving, charitable people who want health care for all, even if it comes at a sacrifice.

Grow up, Cal. You and your supporters: Grow up.

Oh, and please stop dumping your garbage in my driveway.


dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Thu, 08/20/2009 - 1:26am.

You poor misguided soul, you have it all wrong. You think that anyone who voted against or speaks out against President Obama is conservative.

Me, I love trees - they're great for shade and I like the fall color - I just don't go hugging any of them (mainly because of ticks and such). I do not listen to talk radio, I prefer music when I drive. I often listen to Cat Stevens. He had a great message back in the day, what a shame he turned out to be a terrorist. I believe in global warming and saving the manatee - they're so cute. I do not believe in prayer in the schools - it simply doesn't belong there. I am by no means a 'real Christian' as I believe that religion is a personal issue and no one else's business but my own.

I DO believe that no one should dictate how many trees I have or force by way of legislation paying for someone else to have trees. I DO NOT believe that anyone should ever be allowed to CENSOR (refer to the fairness act) my listening pleasure. I DO believe that ridding the world of those who wish to terrorize us is prudent. I DO believe that, while prayer does not belong in the school, the flag and the pledge DO. And any one who doesn't like that needs to move to Saudi Arabia. I DON'T believe that the government needs to tell me how charitable to be, or dictate to me to which charity I should donate.

So....maybe you are right. I am "nowhere near conservative". I'm just an American that believes the government is getting too big for it's breaches and needs a time out.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Ben Franklin


Submitted by MYTMITE on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 12:42pm.

If all Christians feel as you do and are in a giving, charitable mood let them give up their tax free status and let that money go into the pot for health care for those who do not have it. Are the Christian churches and other religious groups ready to make the sacrifice you mention and give up this privilege --as far as I am concerned it is not a right--even tho in the atmosphere in this country today it probably is conceived as a right. What say you?

carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 12:55pm.

The carbonunit does not see any valid reason for church properties to be exempt from taxation.

It's not easy being the carbonunit


Submitted by Blah Blah on Sun, 08/16/2009 - 6:48am.

Churches need to be taxed. they claim to be for the poor. they are not. they do nothing but stir up hatred towards our president and goverment. Church offerings are like a tax on the stupid and weak minded.

I believe that many of the threats agains President Obama are coming from the members of these churches. They won't always say it from the pulpet but you hear it from them at town hall meetings as they threaten our congresspersons. Look what they did to congressperson David Scott and his sign. This all orginates in the churches. Think if all the money wasted on churchs was given to healthcare and the underprivelieged. tax the churches now. close down the hate ones where racism orginates from to.

A system of limitless individual choices, with respect to communications, is not necessarily in the interest of citizenship and self-government.

Submitted by MYTMITE on Sun, 08/16/2009 - 12:56pm.

that our current president was a member of for many years until his views became too public, one of those who spews hatred?

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 08/16/2009 - 1:11pm.

I don't think Comrade Blah thought about that. Bless its little socialist heart.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by MYTMITE on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 1:07pm.

This has been a bone of contention with me for many years. Almost anyone can declare they are a church and received exemption. Why should the average citizen carry the load for some of these mega churches with pastors who drive Bentleys, live in mansions and feel it is their right. Many churches own lots of real estate and pay no taxes on those or other holdings. If all this money was going to help the poor or underprivileged it would be a different story. Bigger and bigger, fancier and fancier and richer and richer seems to be the order of the day and all tax free. There is much that can be done to correct the problems in this country and come up with the money necessary without adding taxes to those already carrying the burden.

Submitted by boo boo on Sun, 08/16/2009 - 12:29am.

By Barbara Katz Gainesville, Florida
A few paragraphs from her article.

James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, James Garfield and Ulysses Grant all opposed the exemption. Grant said to Congress, ""I would also call your attention to the importance of correcting an evil that, if permitted to continue, will probably lead to great trouble in our land... it is the accumulation of vast amounts of untaxed church property."

The estimated value of untaxed church properties in the U.S. is $500 billion. Undeniably, residents pay higher taxes than they would if religious institutions paid their share on this vast sum. Churches use city services, rely on good streets, are protected by the police, and would expect the fire department to respond to a blaze on church property. Yet churches do not contribute to the city accounts from which funds are drawn to pay for those services. Everyone else has to pay more to make up the difference. Across the nation tax authorities report that exemptions for property and buildings used for religious purposes contribute significantly to and are often the biggest cause of lost revenue.

Churches are big businesses, but also big political machines. The pulpit has become a central point for political rallies. Churches have thrown off the pretense of being non-political. States and localities can no longer subsidize churches and other religious organizations on the backs of ordinary taxpayers. The next time Congress is looking for an extra couple billion to finance a war, tell them to look no further than an income tax on religious payroll. Better yet, tell them today, and let them know you intend to vote accordingly.

Barbara Katz

Gainesville, Florida

angrytaxpayer's picture
Submitted by angrytaxpayer on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 11:57am.

Please, give me a break. All Cal is doing is pointing out the FACTS. You people like to throw around words like racist and unchristian when someone disagrees with you. Please read the FACTS. If this health care proposal doesn't scare you then you are for complete and total Government control. We might as well be living in Saudi Arabia if Obama has his way!!!!

By the people for the people.


Submitted by Davids mom on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 12:01pm.

. .has been very honest in giving you his OPINION regarding the wording of this 'bill'. (There is no 'bill' yet.) Angrytaxpayer - why don't you do some research regarding 'facts' and share your opinion with this group?

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 9:42am.

Well...you know you can always read the other politically correct local paper. These blogs must appeal to you or you wouldn't be here.
When the other local paper was thrown in my driveway I didn't mind picking it up and pitching it in the garbage. Good exercise.

Have a cheerful day
Tug Smiling


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 7:15am.

Did you know that the Democrats hold a super majority in both the House and the Senate? That means you can have your health care bill; however, one thing is stopping it. Within the controlling party there is a major concern of its impact on the economy. So go logic that.

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by Davids mom on Sat, 08/15/2009 - 12:07pm.

. . on this blog, there are fiscal conservatives in the Democratic Party. I believe that many of the concerns are valid - and I feel that there will be a 'bill' presented with the consent of the Senate and the House that will mirror the answers to the concerns of citizens in this challenging economical situation that we're in. Reform is on the way! I hope it still contains the concept of 'preventative' care. We are not the healthiest country on the planet. . .and we should be!

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 08/14/2009 - 10:19pm.

You don't like it.. Stop reading it and stop posting here...

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON


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