This stuff will never get built. The SPLOST will probably pass, but in a recession people tend to spend less - a lot less and the sales this tax is based upon are simply not going to happen. Then we have about half the money we thought we would have and it gets put into the general fund. No cart paths, no bridges, no tunnels. And then next year? Higher taxes because we are in a deficit even larger than we have now.

Or, it won't pass and our leaders will use that as an excuse to raise taxes.

Doesn't matter to anyone over 60, Obama is trying to thin the herd with his health care plan.

I think I have to agree cyclec. I have no confidence in our elected officals to make proper use of any more of my money. So I think I'll just keep it for myself.

Vote how you want.

Me, I'll be on the cart down by the lake watching the sunset...You should try it sometimes.

Seen yours. Mine are much better. Much grander. Kind of like Key West but over the prairie. Plus I prefer my Rhino. My cart will smoke your cart anyday. LOL!

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

LOL...as long as you enjoy a sunset every so often, it just makes life seem better.

Oh yeah....let's race....

It is up to the voters. Those bridges and tunnels connect the Industrial Park and Wilksmoor to the rest of PTC. People have been demanding them for several years now and even more since the 74 widening killed even more access.

Plus it pays for current path and some road maintenance.

Waste versus need is in the eye of the voter. It is a simply formula, we don't have the money to pay for it and it does not happen.

Not screaming, just telling the realities.

I understand you live down there because these things are not important to you. But many moved to PTC because they are.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

Guess you're not quite the conservative you lead many of us to believe you are. You are an elected leader for PTC that should be looking after it's best interests. Those bridges are luxuries and non-essential in an economy like this. THAT'S the reality. With all the bonded indebtedness that exists in Fayette county among the various entities it is shameless that during strong economic times elected officials failed to prepare for difficult times such as these. And while already being deeply in debt and the citizens of ALL Fayette government entities stuggling with higher taxes, stressed income levels, inflationary pressures and such, our COMBINED government entities are soliciting tax increases for local pork projects that typically benefit a smaller percentage of the taxpayers.

Now is NOT the time to squander away vital and precious tax dollars on luxury projects. Yeah there are always a certain percentage of citizens that "demand" projects that benefit them personally. But Don... a strong leader understands that he must sometimes say no and stand by it.

If I knew that we could implement a SPLOST that was designated purely for debt reduction, in addition to the already implemented payments being made, I would support it wholly. Providing that it 'sunset' without hesitation the very moment the last note was paid off. Then at that time the payments that are budgeted toward bonded indebtedness could then be rediverted to the general budget to fill in the gaps needed now to maintain current levels of service.

Yeah, yeah... I know.. It all happened before you. But you are partially in charge now and you ARE FAILING to make the difficult and responsible decisions needed during these difficult economic times.

I understand you want to be popular and maybe need this job. But come on man.... do the right thing here. Make the hard decisions and stop acting so Obamaesque. I'll stand with ya man!

I understand you live down there because these things are not important to you.

But, but, but Git... you don't live in the City limits. What do you care?

I only buy groceries, clothes, fuel, dine and shop there on a regular basis and put much needed tax dollars toward your 'Red Budget'.

Cheers!

VOTE NO ON THE SPLOST - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

For more people than you think the paths are not a luxury, they are their transportation system. Some no longer have licenses for various reasons, some don't have cars to save money and so forth.

I understand you are not in a place or position to be aware of that reality.

Just on the Cedarcroft issue, in example, where Ravin Homes just wanted to take out the path, thus cutting a lot of homes off from cart access to shopping, I had a lot of contacts pleading the case they needed the path because they had no other transportation means.

Yea, the $6,000 a year minus expenses and taxes was a real motivation for getting elected, right. And popular? No, my long time home I want to defend.

I understand many people outside of PTC do not understand those paths are not even considered Rec, but transportation, by the State and our Budget.

The SPLOST for transportation and debt reduction is a very conservative usage to me. So we will have to agree to disagree.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

Some no longer have licenses for various reasons...

I reviewed PTC Sec. 78-93. "Operation Regulations", and unless I missed something licenses are required.

Also, some of us in the cycling community that ride through PTC are curious about PTC Sec. 78-12. which makes it unlawful for anyone to ride a bicycle on the streets of the city where a paved bicycle path is available along the same route.

This is counter to GVC § 40-6-294 which states "Whenever a usable path has been provided adjacent to a roadway and designated for the exclusive use of bicycle riders, then the appropriate governing authority may require that bicycle riders use such path and not use those sections of the roadway so specified by such local governing authority."

When you become the next Mayor how about changing this so that PTC's code no longer conflicts with state code.

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use carts without a license. If you are over 18, I don't believe you need one, nor do I think you should have to have one.

I agree with Haddix, many folks rely on the paths for grocery shopping etc.

Because our paths are unique in the State we have exemptions for certain issues.

I forget the exact wording used but it added up to a special license for on the paths only for seniors able to handle a cart but no longer with a drivers license, not the streets.

We get complaints about bicycles on the streets and it is safer to be off the streets. On some streets there are long stretches where you cannot pass, so getting stuck behind a bike is a real frustration when there is a path nearby.

If Mayor bring your concerns and alternatives forward next year and we will discuss them. And I have pushed for more action on bike racks. I believe DAPC is bringing them up with the business associations they are forming as well as with shopping center owners.

The racks in tandem with the street light with banner programs and other ideas coming from Community Development and DAPC are real pluses for the future in my thinking.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

And you're pretty good at it. So you don't want to engage the issue that's OK. Besides I get behind other slower vehicles as well.

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OK, let me put it this way. I am willing to talk as any elected should be willing to do.

Now, tell me why you want to be on the street at all? Plus most don't want you on the street.

After all, I represent pro and con people on issues like this. My position is I need a good reason for you to be on the street, which I don't see, personally speaking.

I hope that wasn't a political answer.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

It sounds pretty good doesn't it? Anyways, like my buddy "Git", I don't live in the supercity. I prefer the country life having spent 32 years in the Los Angeles area. Really you can pay no attention to me if you so desire.

Anyways, I was trying to bring to attention the problem that PTC's code conflicts with the GVC. As someone who rides through PTC I thought it interesting just how PTC's code could even be enforced.

Yes I have a good reason to be on "our" roadways as it is it allowed by the GVC.

I still think you would make a good mayor for the supercity.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I listen to anyone. But it has to be pertinent to PTC and its citizens.

Good ideas and thinking can come from anywhere.

I hope that clarified there really isn't a conflict with GVC. Over time I believe you will see a 'mutation' of the codes as more cities adopt paths.

At GMA I have worked with several cities on path adoptions and they are adopting them now. Our ordinances are models for them.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

You'll do well as the Supreme Leader of the supercity. I'll tell you what, if I'm cited for PTC 78-12 I'll be looking you up.

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Don't disagree with a thing here!
No need for the "you maybe need this job," however.
That sort of thing is why we shouldn't pay them anything except needed expenses.

And they call it "Public Service".

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

We agree that the cart path system is a significant quality of life issue for PTC residents. In fact, it is what attracted many of our Hyde Park residents to move to PTC and is why we support the SPLOST.

Unfortunately, we in our community continue to be stranded from the cart path system, and now are stranded from an honest answer as to whether funding for the cart path expansion (of 54 East at Carriage lane) is even contemplated. According PTC Engineering staff (who manage the SPLOST projects), in a recent public meeting, this type of clarity reduces "flexibility". (In that same public meeting we learned that the Master Plan has no relevance to funding of projects and explains why we have been waiting, in vain, to see even the slightest bit of work on the promise to provide our high tax paying community cart path access.)

Despite our dismay, we will support the SPLOST in November for the sake of Fayette County and PTC - the same cannot be said of our support for PTC leaders, unless they begin to provide transparancy and honesty around this issue. If the SPLOST does fail, shame on them for their part in diminishing confidence among citizens in the administration of SPLOST funds.

The city should connect all sub-divisions (or had the developer do it--better) AND maintain the ones we have-----except no SPLOST should be passed to pay for it!!!!!!

They seem to want to build million dollar cart bridges (or walking bridges) but not paths!! Who builds them by the way?

What we have here is the same situation as the school budgets...using money for management and bricks and mortar instead of student welfare.

There is money to do the paths right from stuff we can do without!

Don't put another six year tax on us! There will be no end to it if you do.
The money currently is spent on un-ending numbers of police and firemen, supplies for them---and city hall management expenses.
And of course Tennis Centers, Amphitheaters poorly managed; and NO TAXES for the Chinese.

There have been many mistakes---let us stop it here.

Under the 2005 SPLOST the projects were assigned by the Council then, none of which are on the current Council. Nor can we change the approved projects by law. Impossible.

I do not know who told you that your path was guaranteed in X amount of time. It was not me.

When I spoke to whomever they had made an assumption the Master Plan guaranteed a path within a short amount of time. As I explained it is an overall goal with no time frame locked in.

Yes, your project is a known project planned to be built. Yes, we want it built. No, we don't have the money for it due to the declining economy.

And no, how much you pay in property tax, which was said to me as a reason for why your development should get priority, has nothing to do with prioritizing projects since this is not a General Fund issue, but a SPLOST issue, and projects are based on age and highest need criterion.

That is as straight forward and as honest answer as I can give for a situation I did not create.

I understand your dismay. The way the SPLOST was set up in 2005 and the declining revenues have handcuffed what we can do. That is why the flexibility in the proposed SPLOST. It allows to move funds from one project to another when realities change.

Making promises one does not know they can keep is to be avoided at all cost. All I can say is that if on next Council I will have to deal with the SPLOST passed or rejected and the funding we collect to make decisions.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

Mr. Haddix,

You guys will take the SPLOST (transportation)money pay down the debt and use the freed up money on all sorts of things not related to transportation. You know that and so does everyone else.

After looking at your posts it is clear that you have no intention of listening to your constituents. You are simply another politician that once in office deems himself empowered to do pretty much as he sees fit, no matter what the citizens are telling him.

Therefore, come next elections (whatever you run for) we should simply kick you out of public service. We need someone that will listen to us. You are not the kind of man we need in a representative democracy in any capacity.

I will break out my checkbook to whoever is running against you. We need someone that will listen to reason.

If they are reading these posts, just drop us a line.

I appreciate your response, and believe that you feel you have provided clarity to the voters in your "clarity here" comment on this site. Unfortunately, you seem to have missed the point, both of my blog post (SPLOST) and of the July PTC public hearing on the FY 2010 Budget (it was I whom you spoke with after that meeting, and who made the official public comments).

You may recall in that public hearing I expressed concern that we could not ascertain which projects were in the budget, due to a lack of transparency in the budget presentation. Specifically, the relevant line in the SPLOST schedule in the amount of $2.46 million (including interest) provided only the explanation "Upgrade Multi-Use Path System". There was NO schedule or outline of what projects comprised the $2.46 million.

You may further recall from the meeting that when PTC Councilmember, Cyndi Plunkett, asked why no detail was provided, someone on the PTC Finance staff (I could not see the name) responded that detail is not provided in order to ensure flexibility in spending funds among various projects. I believe that this practice is the root of the problem.

Frankly, your last response was overly simplistic, so let me clarify. I NEVER stated that anyone in our community was promised that our project would be funded with "X" dollars by a certain time. What I stated, in my public comments to the PTC Council, was that I was understanding for the first time, during that meeting, that the project was not funded (because someone FINALLY stated it).

This raises two points. Firstly, why is it that citizens cannot go to the Peachtree City budget information and ascertain which projects are being funded with SPLOST funds? (The answer is stated above).
Secondly, if it was such a forgone conclusion that our project was not included in the plan, then why were multiple citizens in our community not told of this during the two plus years when we called to inquire about the lack of progress and to determine the status of our project? Citizens were told by various PTC Finance, Planning and Engineering staff, in fact, that the project was on hold "due to the draught". I would suggest that this was dishonesty by omission.

But alas, the lack of clarity continues; and now is of import to the upcoming SPLOST election. I am on this site now, because we citizens have the good fortune of having a newspaper (the Citizen) that reported the PTC Council's approval / recommendation that Fayette County move forward with the next SPLOST (to be voted on in November 2009). This article referenced "roughly $9 million in the SPLOST for street and cart path resurfacing". I spent hours searching the PTC website for information about the $9 million and guess what? NO information concerning how the reporter knew the $9 million was for cart path resurfacing.

I assume that some list does exist. And, I could assume that you may have even posted it; but let me say that it is not easy to find (assuming it is posted). In fact, I was not able to find information about the $9 million using the PTC search engine with phrases such as: SPLOST, SPLOST lists, SPLOST projects, SPLOST cart path...etc.

Is it so unreasonable to ask that a clear explanation of SPLOST projects (with rough dollar estimates) be posted on the PTC website in a way that is somewhat accessible? And would it also be unreasonable to ask that this information be posted BEFORE the upcoming SPLOST election?

Now, I am back to conclusion of my original posting (SPLOST). The new SPLOST would likely be a good thing for Fayette County, and we will support it for the overall benefit of the County. Too bad the PTC management is jeapardizing the potential passage through lack of transparency that suggests to voters that weak financial controls are in place that may raise the possibility of Fraud, Waste or Abuse. In any event, the lack of clarity certainly diminishes the degree of citizen involvement in the allocation of public resources.

First, there was no lack of clarity. The SPLOST agreement was in the packet that is still on the City Website and I put the revised document on my website at donhaddix.com as an attachment.

SR East bridge and path connections is $1.9 million with another $2.9 million for path extensions in the city.

I already explained why all those extensions were not spelled out. Things change and did change over the last couple of years that caused a lot of problems by having every extensions explicitly stated. We need the flexibility to change with the changes as to which path extensions when and for how much.

Now, as to your statement on your project was not in the plan. It was in the plan and it has come up in Council discussions. But, as I told you SPLOST money didn't come in as projected. As far as drought impact on construction, I have not delved into the engineering issues surrounding the construction of that portion of the path system. I just know the money was not there due to the recession.

The Budget information online is a summary, not a line by line breakdown. The full books are massive and you would have to go to City Hall to dig into them. So you are better off to pose your question to City Hall via info@peachtree-city.org.

As for where The Citizen got their information and how they formulated their numbers, you need to ask them.

Now, as for the use of the City site, I proposed some additions and a formulation for more public involvement and far more clarity in information sharing. What happened was the majority, yet another 3-2 issue, rejected it. Depending on the election results I plan to put those changes in place next year.

Let me make it clear though, State Law governing use of SPLOST money does not allow any money to be spent on anything other what is authorized by the voters November 3rd. There has not been any accusations of PTC abusing SPLOST usage, just frustration on not getting all the projects done because of lack of money, as you are frustrated.

What is jeopardizing the passage is the 54 W By Pass that has alienated so many, yet it was approved by voters last time, which money is in the bank now, and the ESPLOST, which was also approved by voters. PTC is neither the County or BOE. We have no say over their SPLOST usage and they have none over ours once approved. We are not responsible for them.

As for diminishing public involvement, we have wants all over the city and every area sees their need as the priority need.

You want your project done and feel entitled, but so do others. We need the money to pay for them or none get done.

Nothing else I can add here short of a guarantee your project will head the list. I cannot do that because I only control 20% of the vote.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

People who live in PTC should pay for the paths, just that simple. If our taxes go up and we don't want to pay the bill, we can move. No one forces us to live here.

Our game plan should be to reduce the size of government and reduce taxes. I believe reducing taxes first will force the reduction in the size of state, county and city government. Fortunately, they can't print money like the Feds.

However, they will always want more money for doing poor work, using the poor results as an excuse for asking for more money. Just look at that terrific job of a bridge over the CSX tracks on 54 if you want one small example. My guess is they simply need more money to get it done. Why should we continue to reward this type of result?

Mr. Haddix, it's pretty simple you are for lowering taxes or you are not, the fact that citizens that use something should pay for it seems fundamentally fair to me. Why should someone who doesn't use something pay for it? Your thinking is what has gotten this country in the state it is in today. We don't need to spread the pain out to everyone, we simply need to be grown up about this and pay for what we want to have. I think government needs to get out of our lives and this includes local government.

The fact is that spreading the pain is pretty easy to do but the outcome is what we see around us in the current economy. The only answer to our economic problems is to live within our means, and not demand that someone else pay for the things we want. It is a fundamentally flawed formula and the road to disaster. By paying for those things we want, we will feel the pain and our demands on what we want the government to do for us will be muted. This is not a bad outcome.

The only problem with socialism is the fact that sooner or later you run out of the other guy’s money. That’s right where we are today Mr. Haddix.

You have made your position clear on SPLOST, we differ on this issue and on how to live our lives. You clearly want to spread the pain. I will work very hard for candidates that share my beliefs. That's not you Mr. Haddix.

Can we consider the following as to whom will pay the most in taxes with a SPLOST?

Haddix owns a house worth $500,000

Johnnie Doe owns a house worth $100,000

An added house tax (and no added sales tax) will cost Haddix 4-5 times as much house tax as it does Johnie Doe!

An added sales tax (and no added house tax) will cost Johnnie Doe and Haddix about the same added tax.

Haddix may eat and spend a little more than Johnnie--I would.

However, now tell me why some want it one way and some want it another?

Irregardless of what your answer is, I think most don't want either!

Isn't this what I said sometime back?

Instead of the Council saying no to the SPLOST, they say yes and let "the voters" say NO---not them.

Now everyone knows that in an off-year election most of "the voters" are people who want the SPLOST! It is setup that way!

It is a "chicken" way and I despise it!

If I, and Independent, can vote against a tax increase for this SPLOST, why can't the Fayette "Conservative" hypocrites?

Up until a few years ago our sales tax was at 5 cents, now with two Splosts, 7 cents..Oh we have to have that, Oh we have to pay for that, even though, we charged it 20 years ago, Oh, Oh Oh, yippee Ki A, we can pay it off with a Splost...Oh OH OH, OH yea, we can afford anything, WE HAVE those wonderful SPLOSTS now and Forever. It won't be long and we will be at 10 Cents sales tax. Do they ever save a dime? NO on Splosts, I don't care what they are for. Those in Charge spend way too much money on unimportant things that are just not necessary. Let them live within our means and not theirs!

I'm with you Bonking Boo Boo. What puzzles me is why you fail to hold the same standards to Congress, the Senate and President Obama?

And don't but, but, but Bush me. We're not talking about his bloated budgets. We're talking about the silly, needless, irresponsible waste being doled out NOW.

Let them live within our means and not theirs!

Does that not include the Federal Government too? Hmmmmmmm?

Obama.... The Bernie Madoff Of Washington

I would not have bailed-out the banks or the auto companies and certainly not AIG!

However but but Bush bailed the banks since he knew they (his administration) allowed the crisis to occur and he didn't want a depression as he left.

Obama asked for another trillion to scatter around to the states for teachers, cops, roads, bridges, clunkers, and the WAR---not his war!

So, you see it is but but Bush, yet.

Maybe it will Be but but Obama next years sometime---we will see.

Frankly, I think we have more to go than we have gone with this recession caused by the credit crunch!

I suspect if Obama had halted all of the Bush spending and not asked for anymore, he would have been banished to Kenya by now!

Like minds think alike more often than not. Yes, on what Bonkers said above.
You know what they say about voting. Your much better off voting locally than Nationally. Locally(County,State) you can see that money directly coming out of your wallet and used for good or not. Schools, local projects, etc. You see the waste of your local tax $'s going on right around you. Nationally, it trickles down, so you don't notice as much. Congress, Well, lets just say its a good thing some of them are cracked, maybe the light will be let in that way.

You have to admire someone who can take on the almost insurmountable Job Obama has taken on. I for one just hope he can make some steps in the right direction and turn this Country around. We will see, the jury is still out. It won't be easy and it won't be fast.

That's quite the drama there. Obama inherited a big wreck, but I wouldn't say it was near the level that Reagan had on his hands after 4 years of the Carter presidency.

This country has recovered from totally corrupt presidents like Nixon and incompetent fools like Carter or LBJ, presidents being assassinated......it's a resilient nation. Whether Obama thrives or fails isn't going to matter in the long-run. In the short-term, sure, 50 years from now? Uh, no.

You speak truth. Obama is making a differance for the whole world. The poor will be lifted up and helped and the rest of are no longer under the thumb of a racist government. we will have healthcare for everyone. finally

A system of limitless individual choices, with respect to communications, is not necessarily in the interest of citizenship and self-government.

Well, it won't be history until somewhere down the road, but my guess is that it will be judged as an uncivilized upheaval. And the Fed Govt has no resonsibility to provide free health care to anyone--but it already happens. Just go to any Metro area Emergency Room on any night and you will see citizens and non-citizens there who will get treated and pay nothing. We taxpayers already pay for their healthcare. Mny do not wish to realize that of those who have no healthcare, many could indeed afford it, but thoose to spend their money otherwise with the knowledge that the ER is always available. In many cases, it's called new cars, cell phones,tobacco, alcohol, flat screen tv.s and other personal comfort items. Regardless of skin color, those who make those choices come from a culture that this or more than likely, any other administration won't change. And that's the way it is!

If it will make you feel better, why don't you write that fat check to the Guv.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

the point--the comrade does "fat mouth" NOT "fat check!"

no really we mean it...Welcome back..
We missed your insane ramblings.. (psst hack/sniffles is that you??)

"Any People who expect to be both IGNORANT and FREE, in a state of CIVILIZATION, expects what NEVER was and NEVER will be."
THOMAS JEFFERSON

Like you, I too want to see things move in a positive direction but I also know that one person can't do it alone, regardless of the office held. It takes a combo of POTUS & Congress to make things happen--you know, that ssme congress that's been in control for the last 2 yrs! Think about it!

"I suspect if Obama had halted all of the Bush spending and not asked for anymore, he would have been banished to Kenya by now!"

But, that is an idea I could get behind. Even if it did come from Bonker$.

I think that's what the vote is about. If the splost passes, we do have the money to do those things. If it fails, we don't.