PTC officials plan workshop on rules for ‘walking signs’

Tue, 07/21/2009 - 4:27pm
By: John Munford

A proposal to ban the use of hand-held signs along city roads to promote businesses in Peachtree City is going to be hashed out some more.

The City Council and Planning Commission will hold a joint meeting at City Hall Thursday, July 30 at 6:30 p.m. to discuss the issue.

The ban would not forbid costumed mascots, or uncostumed persons, from being on the side of highways and roads to promote a business. It would forbid them from holding a sign that is visible from any highway or road in Peachtree City.

The proposed ban would only be applied to city businesses and would not restrict any other type of sign.

Last week several business owners told the planning commission that the use of “walking advertising” is very successful. Several business owners suggested the walking advertisements could be regulated instead of banned outright.

Currently the city requires any person who serves as a walking advertisement to register for a solicitor’s permit from the city police department, a process that includes a fee and a criminal background check.

The proposal to ban walking ads from holding signs drew criticism from several planning commissioners at their meeting last week. Ultimately commissioners suggested developing more detailed restrictions on the number of days a year a business could deploy walking signs and how far away they must be from the road. Another suggestion was to regulate the quality of the hand-held signs.

Commissioner Joe Frazar said he felt the ordinance was “poorly written and poorly researched” adding that local businesses should have been consulted before finalizing the proposal.

“This is bad policy right here and it’s terrible,” Frazar said.

Commissioner Lynda Wojcik said she understood walking signs are successful but the issue needs to be addressed before it gets out of hand.

“If you see a whole bunch of people walking around with signs it cheapens the look of the area,” Wojcik said.

Commissioner Patrick Staples noted that the city got a lot of complaints when walking signs were deployed for a jewelry store that recently went out of business.

City Director of Developmental Services David Rast said the ordinance would not forbid charity car washes from having persons holding signs along the road to promote their event. But such fund-raisers must seek a special events permit from the city, he added.

The concept originated a few months ago when the City Council instructed staff to research the matter and propose a potential regulation as local businesses began to take to the side of local highways with costumed mascots to promote themselves.

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Submitted by RKS on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 12:34pm.

I'd like the walking signs to go away in PTC and in's annoying, causes traffic issues and makes us look
like a bunch of doofuses.

Submitted by smile on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 7:11pm.

I am sure you looked like a "doofus" before walking signs became an issue.

I think tomorrow I will dress up as a giant hamburger and walk down Hwy 74 and wave at my fellow citizens.

Okay...I don't have the guts to do that, or the desire for an arrest record...but I think it would be least to me

SMILE Smiling

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 9:25am.

Get in contact with DAPC. They have SCORE on board, the Guide, are forming business associations, developing regional marketing strategies and seeking to bring employers here to increase our consumer base, which is the real answer to local business woes.

Just competing for market share, meaning moving it from one local business to another, isn't an answer. Especially when it draws so many complaints as it has been doing.

We regularly get requests from cities that are where some want us to go for copies of our sign ordinance to enact in the communities to escape sign issues and improve community standards.

We have already been damaged by the overbuilding of retail space. Big Boxes are one of the biggest killers of small business there are, and harmful to a city as many have learned. These issues are our true problems here.

Get with DAPC for developing some real answers. Some other ideas are being looked into by Staff.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1

Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 8:30am.

The DAPC is moving in the right direction now. That's because the good old boy money grabbers were kicked off and replaced with people who actually care about the city.

Vote Republican

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 7:30pm.

Part of that directly lies at the feet of those who served on DAPC in years past. People with very successful careers and intelligence who suddenly treated the scope of operations that DAPC had as something meaningless and unimportant. Uh......budgets anyone?

The other big splotch of DAPC is Steve Brown going WAY beyond overboard in making them into the root of all evil and scorching the earth, souring businesses and individuals. That was pathetic leadership and after a lot of juvenile temper tantrums and acting like a poorly behaved brat, Brown did some serious damage. It wasn't like DAPC had their act together in the first place, but no need for dropping Agent Orange all over the place and wondering why all the trees suddenly died. Geez! Everyone involved in that fiasco ought to be ashamed of themselves.

I didn't have a problem with Logsdon campaigning on cleaning up that mess and paying-off the ILLEGAL OH MY GOD LOANS that may or may not have been illegal. It was time to get way past that as a city and stop trying to settle grudges. Logsdon since then has shown to be way over his head in the job, but I still support that decision.

DAPC can recover and are heading in the right direction, but it will take time to heal all the wounds inflicted in the past. There's a lot of blame to go around for how it got this bad, but I don't buy the BIG BOX IS DEATH bit either. Sounds good to some segments of the voting public, but it's goofy populism generally.

Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 8:26am.

Defending the corruption of the development authority is like drinking out of your toilet, it's plain NASTY, and you shouldn't do it!!!

If we still had that $1.5 mil maybe we wouldn't be hiring illegal aliens to cut the grass.

Some of you Logsdon supporters need to crawl back under your rocks!!!

Vote Republican

ptctaxpayer's picture
Submitted by ptctaxpayer on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 3:07pm.

You guys got our tool to cast the deciding vote to bring in that mess on 54. You people want to glorify the crooks and villify Brown. Sure Brown did some dorky things but he may be one of the only mayors in PTC history who didn't walk away with a little jingle. You guys are delusional. Face it--- the crooks bilked us for millions. Don't pee in my glass and tell me its lemonade.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 4:05pm.

Whatever. This city has elections just like anywhere else, and a vote by Mr. Builder doesn't count any more than the vote by Suzy Whiner. Brown got trounced the last two elections, and it was a LOT more than just those damn Satan-worshipping developers that had something to say about that.

The anti-everything sentiment in PTC is the same as, whine, moan. Accuse everyone who has a different opinion of getting rich off the issue, corruption, etc. It's not a difference of opinion, it's "YOU ARE A DEVELOPER'S PAWN! YOU'RE ENRICHING YOURSELF SOMEHOW UNDER THE TABLE!"

It's pretty easy to see why elections go the way they do. Just because the majority of Citizen bloggers like Brown doesn't mean the majority of residents feel in any way like they do.

Look, the anti-crowd has their big chance when the council was full of councilmembers against everything. Brown and Rapson lost re-elections to weak candidates, Tennant decided he wasn't so sure about his cohorts any more like he once was and openly feuded with Brown, Win with Weed(Horgan wants to borrow those campaign signs!) didn't run again because he became employed as in-house attorney of Hapeville after saying how ridiculous it would be for PTC to do the much for that revolution. Now it's just more spectators on the outside hurling rocks once again.

Submitted by fay79isus on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 7:26am.

NUK and MUDCAT love the DAPC Bailout, Big Boxes, Tennis Welfare and they hate Steve Brown---- boy that's a big surprise. And, they weep and grieve over the sacking of Basinger and Williams, two of the developer's minions who split their city time between doling out limited developer approval favors and hanging out at the Flat Creek 19th hole. Tell us something we don't know. Even the DAPC lawyer admitted breaking the law. Brown ended the reign of "who you know" rule in PTC. It is predictable from your vantage point why you wanted that swept under the carpet.

You forgot to mention how morally righteous Councilmember Jim Pace was when he served his company Group VI, er, the City, when he was in office.

Give us an original viewpoint we haven't heard from your crowd before.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sat, 07/25/2009 - 6:52am.

They extracted more from developers in terms of concessions, land donations, free signage and immense staff time - Jerry Peterson's salary for 15 years should have been paid by the city. He was truly working for them. Basinger and Williams helped more than they hurt. There were very few problems until the west side development came in and the RAM guys dealing with the city government who by that time did not have Williams or Basinger. That was the problem. That and ineffective leadership.

Bringing up Jim Pace is interesting. He was far more costly than any DAPC fantasies of the boy mayor. Pace was there for one reason only, I am told - to broker the PCDC sale of the sewer system to the city. Check out how much that cost in repairs and purchase price combined. Even with open records you will not find out much of anything, but it was millions wasted by the city because they did not inspect or require repairs or a maintenance bond, according to people who were there on the inside. Williams and Basinger were there and if Lenox and Pace had not muzzled them, they would have saved the city some big time money by forcing some liability for the expensive repairs onto PCDC. Of course PCDC and Equitable before them knew how bad the system was as you can determine by reading the agreement between them when Equitable sold to PCDC, but even though a copy of that agreement was brought to city hall at one point, nothing was done.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 3:51pm.

I was totally supportive of PTC turning the tennis center over to Cannongate and letting PROFESSIONALS run the place instead of diverting resources of the city into areas where they don't have the expertise. Cannongate will at least bring some real world business experience to the place. Whether it turns out to be workable or not is another question, but the tennis center is something that I'm sure there are plenty of regrets from politicians to DPAC to voters. It's about being an adult, figuring out solutions, and moving forward, not sitting around whining about the past and calling that a "solution."

As far as Big Boxes, hell yeah I love having Wal-Mart/Home Depot and Target in PTC. I have zero connection to developers or whatever, but would rather shop locally instead of driving to Newnan or Fayetteville.

Anyone can sit around and bad-mouth the government non-stop and offer NO solutions except blame. That doesn't run a city.

I don't know where you uninformed clods get your info from, but Jim Williams wasn't fired, asked to leave, pressured, whatever. He left PTC because he was recruited by Fairburn to be their City Mgr, complete with much higher pay and much better benefits than PTC, and also become a part of a rapidly growing city with lots of $$$, unlike PTC which was seeing the end of the impact fee gravy train. Fairburn has something like 15million in reserves, built a college, and runs surpluses, not budget deficits.

Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 8:05am.

Every town, and county, has such "ins."

It has to do with buttering bread, and social statue.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 3:37am.

Expecting Steve Brown to give up his signature issue - the one he mentions 3 time a week working for Cal's newspaper - the "illegal" DAPC loans - is unrealistic. He's obsessed by this and thinks it keeps in the public eye. It does seem to distract people from other issues during his brief 4-year reign of stupidity, like the one I raised yesterday - widening 74 and letting them put sidewalks instead of cart paths in a city with 10,000 golf carts. Who was mayor then? What was he doing? Firing Jim Williams and doing his best to get rid of Basinger? Don't you think those 2 would have gotten us cart paths along 74? I do.

And I don't think big boxes are the most evil thing in the world. It would be nice to have Sam's Club here drawing traffic and helping small business that feed off that traffic like restaurants, gas stations, florists, bookstores and traffic court.

Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 4:30am.

That is a state road and state sidewalks.

They don't build or allow cart paths!

A little knowledge goes nowhere!

Steve Brown's picture
Submitted by Steve Brown on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 10:49pm.


The DAPC was creating loans under the table well out of public view and the $1.5 million cannot be traced. Then, we find the DAPC members were on the Board of the Peachtree National Bank (one was a top executive with the bank). Short-term, high interest loans, conflict of interest and no disclosure - and that is ok with NUK.

They were also paid $3 million in hotel/motel taxes and no one knows where that went either.

This does not even include the DAPC Vice Chairman's multi-page letter confirming a multitude of wrongs by the authority and its employee(s).

Interesting part about Mayor Logsdon's plan to repay the illegal loans was he told the DAPC to come up with a list of all of their capital expenses and they would claim that is where the $1.5 million in loans went (even though city receipts show the city paid for those expenses), and the best they could come up with was $500,000 in expenses. Smiling Oops!

Somebody filled their pockets up to the rim, but we will never know who because the DAPC did not keep valid accounting records.

Not a good idea to support corruption.

Submitted by smile on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 7:18am.

You people have way too much time on your hands if this is what you are discussing at your meetings at a time like this. If I owned a small business in PTC right now I would pack up and move out. Small businesses are struggling to keep from drowning in this recession and you want to make an issue of walking signs now?
Not only do walking signs not bother me, I praise the people who are willing to stand out there and do it. At least they are working! Not only do walking signs help promote a business, but they usaully are giving someone a little income. Have a heart PTC! Wait until the economy is better before you start regulating this...really you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Any person who called and complained about a "walking sign" should feel ashamed and stupid for making an issue out of this in such a bad economy. They have to be people with no understanding of what it is like to suffer in bad economic times.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 07/22/2009 - 6:44am.

The stupidity of trying to regulate everything that (literally) walks in this city is getting really tiresome. Understand we are in a recession and the real focus should be on helping business, fewer or lower taxes and no empty storefronts.

Lynda, you worry that walking signs "cheapens" the look? Get a grip lady. Empty storefronts, high unemployment, foreclosed houses - that's what "cheapens" the look. Keep it up and you will see that more regulation and restrictions on local businesses will lead to that "cheap" look you are so worried about. Lynda, David and others - stop it. And Patrick, we don't need to hear from you about anything ever again until you explain why you voted to destroy the land use plan by supporting Callula Hills. That's 100 times more important than your stupid obsession with walking signs.

This is a leadership issue for mayor and council. Shut down this useless debate and get on with something important. Haddix can show leadership by making a motion to stop the process and then if one of those famous 3-2 votes overrule him, we have all learned something.

Submitted by smile on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 7:24am.

Empty stores cheapen the look of PTC, not walking signs. Good grief, that Lynda must be something. She is worried about walking signs and not empty businesses? Where is the common sense?

highflyer2's picture
Submitted by highflyer2 on Thu, 07/23/2009 - 6:32am.

Every thing you said makes COMPLETE SENSE ! There for it will never be taken seriously! We are talking about people walking around with SIGNS! Let that happen in PTC and before you know it, there will be guys with no legs on push carts selling pencils in front of Wal Mart!

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 3:27am.

This is one of the reasons other people think we are snobs in PTC. Logsdon prached "Leadership" during his campaign. Show some now. Tell these walking sign critics to shut up and go away.

Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Fri, 07/24/2009 - 8:38am.

You're a snob mudcat! Don't expect anything out of Logsdon for the rest of his term. Why should he change now?

Vote Republican

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