Chairman, 4 mayors push new SPLOST

Tue, 07/14/2009 - 4:26pm
By: Ben Nelms

PTC’s Logsdon tells $22 million shopping list; county wants $5 million ‘spec’ campus in 6-year, $135 million extension of 1¢ tax

The Fayette County Commission and the mayors of four municipalities agreed Monday night that the idea of continuing the current 1-cent sales tax should be put to the voters in November. And they agreed to turn it into a 6-year collection effort to raise $135 million from the extra penny sales tax.

Of the four towns, only Peachtree City Mayor Harold Logsdon came with a shopping list of projects he wants to see funded — a $22 million shopping list.

The county wants a buffet of items, including a $5 million for-rent college campus for prospective institutions of higher learning.

Commission Chairman Jack Smith also announced that commissioners are proposing to double the local homestead exemption if the measure passes, essentially neutralizing the removal of the Homestead Tax Relief Grant (HTRG) credit earlier this year by the Georgia General Assembly.

Fayette County’s current Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST) will expire in spring 2010. It’s been used mainly for transportation projects.

The proposal to continue it included a 5-year collection maximum of $115 million and a 6-year maximum of $135 million. The consensus by those at the table called for a 6-year collection. The county’s share, under either scenario, was placed at $72 million.

Smith said the commission would propose to double the local homestead exemption if voters approve an extension of the SPLOST in November.

Smith said the measure would offset the HTRG deduction that, through this year, has reduced property taxes by approximately $250 for an average homeowner. The tax credit was removed by the General Assembly beginning next year. Smith said a doubling of the local homestead exemption would generate a savings of approximately $225-230 for a home valued at $200,000.

Smith near the beginning of the meeting asked the mayors if their municipalities supported continuing the SPLOST. All agreed that SPLOST revenues were a viable way to acquire funding for transportation and other needs, though Tyrone Mayor Don Rehwaldt added the passage of the measure could be problematic.

“I think we have a consensus of opinion to let the voters decide if the projects we determine are worthwhile,” Smith said after each of the mayors weighed in on the proposal.

From the county’s perspective, Smith then identified four project areas for which SPLOST funds would be used. Those included $50 million to pay off the county’s Justice Center, $2 million for an emergency operations center, $5 million to establish a university campus and $15 million for transportation projects.

The proposed project list would give residents the best bang for their buck, Smith said.

Pertaining to the Justice Center, Smith said the annual debt payment to the leasing agent amounts to $3.7 million, with a total amount owed of $50 million. Smith said retiring the debt on the Justice Center would save taxpayers $31 million in interest over the lifetime of the debt payment.

Smith in referencing the $2 million for an emergency operations center said it was a facility that had been needed for some time.

As for the university campus, Smith said Fayette had tried for years to have a university established here. He said the $5 million could be used to acquire land and construct buildings. The county appears to be postured to attempt what Fairburn did last year when it paid for the construction of its college campus. The initial Fairburn classroom buildings are now being leased to Brenau University and Georgia Military College.

Smith said the county still has existing transportation projects that need to be completed. Decreased revenues from the current SPLOST mean the county might fall short of the minimum collection threshold. As with most of the municipalities, the list for the $15 million for transportation projects will be forthcoming.

Only Peachtree City came with a list of projects for the continued 1-cent sales tax. If passed by voters, Peachtree City under a 6-year SPLOST would receive approximately $22 million.

Among the numerous projects identified by Mayor Harold Logsdon were $5.4 million for debt retirement, $6 million for street resurfacing and $2.4 million for multi-use path resurfacing, with the balance going for multiple smaller projects related to the extension and upgrading of multi-use paths, tunnel work and erosion control.

Fayetteville Mayor Ken Steele said that while his city was not ready with project list, it is likely that 90 percent would be used for transportation-related projects and 10 percent for debt reduction.

Tyrone Mayor Don Rehwaldt said his town would likely use the entire amount for transportation since Tyrone has no debt.

And Brooks Mayor Robert Butler said he would have a list ready for the next meeting.

The current SPLOST carries a maximum 5-year collection ceiling of $115 million, though less than $90 million has been collected.

The current distribution, if the maximum were collected, shows Peachtree City receiving $12.02 million, Fayetteville receiving $4.2 million and Tyrone receiving $1.49 million, with $81.1 million going to countywide transportation projects.

Smith said the county has sufficient funds to complete the three phases of the West Fayetteville Bypass.

Next up on the move to continue the SPLOST, the municipalities will work on their project lists and return to meet with commissioners to develop an intergovernmental agreement to determine the distribution of SPLOST dollars to the various entities.

Finally, the commission will call for the current SPLOST to be continued by placing it on the November ballot. The entire process must be completed by Aug. 13.

Along with commissioners and mayors, the few people in the audience included council members and administrative staff from the various municipalities.

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tortugaocho's picture
Submitted by tortugaocho on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 7:41am.

SPLOST--- "Hey, its a sales tax; its voluntary". So the line goes.

OK--- then why don't we raise the SPLOST and save it for a RESERVE fund in case the economy gets worse and not better. Instead we will be wasting the money. Consider the news report on the flatfooted reaction from Tyrone and Brooks: "Tyrone Mayor Don Rehwaldt said his town would likely use the entire amount for transportation since Tyrone has no debt...And Brooks Mayor Robert Butler said he would have a list ready for the next meeting." What happened? Basically, Jack Smith said to the cities "If we collect more in sales taxes you will be entitled to a percentage portion. If we throw a bunch of money at you, do you think you can spend it?" Brooks Mayor Butler basically said "Gosh, I need some time to think about it but yeah I can figure out something to blow it on."

This is exactly what Washington DC and Congress are terminally addicted to.

And what is the justification for the tax increase for more spending (rather than a reserve fund)? So we can pay off the opulent Justice Center Debt. Who was involved in designing that Palace? It looks like something Saddam Hussein would build. Tell me that--- who designed it? And when Chairman Smith says "We can save money by paying it off" they are like the woman who comes home from the mall with several shopping bags full of goodies gleefully declaring "I just saved $200 !".

The Justice Center is 10 years old and if it is still a financial burden then you people OVERSPENT.

Dave Ramsey says "Act Your Wage"-- why is it no one in elected office does that ?

grassroots's picture
Submitted by grassroots on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 2:56pm.

The problem is it's on top of other taxes. My property tax is maxed out even after the pro ESPLOST cheer leaders said it would go down. They also said they would pay off bonds. Both lies. They have paid interest on a bond since 1994. Please disclose how much that is. More than 10 times the worth of my house? Another is that SPLOST will end. Lie again...they always want to keep it. It's a painless tax but add it up with the others and it starts to weigh the people down. Wingo is not budging on my property tax appeal even though every expert in the country knows that property has devalued every where. Wingo is a fudger too. Nest year he's going to tack on $300 to every homeowner because Homeowners Excemption is going away. Too much lard. Time for a diet. Thumbs down on any more SPLOST until they can be open and honest.

Submitted by HoyaLawya on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 7:54am.

A $5 million "spec" campus? Do these people realize the type of economy we are in?? After the bypass developer orgy, I will vote no on every SPLOST put forward in this county, as those in charge obviously are out of touch overspenders drunk on power.

Submitted by boo boo on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 3:22pm.

Sneaky Politicians Lasting OVER SPENDING TAX/SPLOST. Do Not these local Politician's know we are in a deep recession. To me that means we have to cut back on what we spend if there is no money. Evidently not in our local politicians thought processes. Spend Spend Spend, no matter what. We have seen what the County spent the present splost on, the bulk of anyway, the ROAD to No Where, not needed not wanted and yet they continue on with this boondoggle. They pulled a Fast one and think we will fall for the same by putting in a few carrots...NO THANKS Been there done that, make do with what you have. This is nothing but a huge tax we can ill afford at this time.

Submitted by pomsmom on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 1:06pm.

Has anyone heard about tax-free days before school starts back in August?

mapleleaf's picture
Submitted by mapleleaf on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 9:16am.

Unpatriotic as it might be for me to answer your question about the sales-tax-free days coming up for school supplies, computers, and other items, I will tell you.

The tax-free days are July 30 and 31, and August 1 and 2 (Thursday through Sunday).

My pleasure!

Submitted by ja17764 on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:38am.

Way to go Fayetteville nice to see you guys have your stuff together and in order ready to present at the big lets see how much money we can swindle the community out of this round. I like to see that you guys are thinking ahead like PTC and FC. Good job!

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 9:54am.

The By-Pass was not a hidden issue brought up later. It was presented as part of the plan voted for as presented in 2004. Did I support the By-Pass as a citizen. No. Was I aware of it? Yes.

Will it go away if the SPLOST is not renewed? No. I believe the number was $56 million already in the bank for it and Jack Smith said it would proceed. PTC Council has zero say in the issue so voting no on a renewed SPLOST will not stop it.

It is not a new tax, but a continuation.

Will Logsdon be involved in its expenditures as Mayor? No. Does the next PTC Mayor and Council have say on how the PTC portion will be spent on a renewed SPLOST? Yes, but only within the confines of usage as presented on the ballot, meaning debt reduction, golf cart path maintenance and some road work. So, is it important who is Mayor and on Council? Yes.

What happens in PTC if it is not approved? We no longer have the approximately $1 million a year for cart path and road work that it is currently funding. That leaves us facing either a stoppage of about $1 million in services or a .6 millage increase, which I am unwilling to do since that would be a direct rejection of a no on the SPLOST vote.

A millage increase would be totally on PTC alone, even though County and other people use or paths and roads. A SPLOST draws on everyone shopping in the County, whether they live here or not.

I have been pushing for spending reforms and gotten some through in whole or part. There is more to do and all future Councils need to be more fiscally responsible. But, for right now, the voters are facing the realities of a bad economy and whether they want to continue all our services by continuing SPLOST or have some cut by denying SPLOST.

The voters are facing a lot of issues, including SPLOST and a major Council election.

There are no perfect answers on funding right now. Every avenue has a price attached.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1

Submitted by Bonkers on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 2:46pm.

Don't you believe in cutting taxes?
Why didn't you be for the temporary tax on corporations being renewed (a NEW tax)?

More hypocrisy!

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 2:08pm.

I like the SPLOST better than most any tax. The problem the other taxes never seem to go down when we approve SPLOST.

TinCan's picture
Submitted by TinCan on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 12:43pm.

If the current tax goes away doesn't it make the next one "new"? I'm amazed how a "special" short-term tax can become essential in a few short years. This smacks of the kid in the candy store phenomenon.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 1:09pm.

Property tax gets reset every year even if to the same rate. So does that make it new as well? One year, five years or six, they all have life spans and budgets that change and need reauthorization.

It really is more of a tax placement than extra tax. If not in the SPLOST it would show up in about every city and county millage rate on property tax.

By being sales tax based everyone who shops pays it. If property tax based it would be exclusively on the property owners who would each have to find a funding source for the greater costs.

It is the old argument of how government should be funded, as in via property, thus hitting the few, or sales tax, thus hitting everyone.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1

tortugaocho's picture
Submitted by tortugaocho on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 7:55am.

Donnie--- I don't think I would have said that. You might want back off that "It's just a continuation".

Submitted by PTC Observer on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 5:08pm.

Maybe so, but Mr. Haddix sure sounds a whole lot like a Democrat to me.

SPLOST is designed to be a "temporary' tax, Haddix looks at it somewhat like the federal income tax. He is proposing I suppose a permanent extension of a temporary tax.

Exactly when does this temporary tax end?

If PTC wants to have a million bucks for our cart path system we should pay for it ourselves and stop using the excuse that it’s not fair when someone from out of town uses them. The paths are primarily for our benefit. This is exactly what property tax is designed to do, benefit the community.

Consider this, what if Fayette County had LOWER sales taxes than surrounding counties? Do you think that just might attract more business into the county and improve the business conditions here?

Think about it Mr. Haddix.

Submitted by GAltant on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 4:45pm.

As a member of city council you are responsible for the financial mess that the city is in. You were elected, you are there so you are partially responsible. MAN UP and take responsiblity. You can't blame Harold for everything (well, actually you do)

Clearly council is afraid to raise taxes and using the reserves is silly. Just raise the damn millage tax and move on.

Also, as you are about what you are going to do to build consensus with a new a city council. Your last editorial attacking Mr. Dyer and his wife is not a way to build consensus.

Show us leadership - your last editorial in the Citizen does not do that. I respect Mr. Dyer for not responding!

TinCan's picture
Submitted by TinCan on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 3:41pm.

Since you choose to comapre the SPLOST to property tax, can you tell me what year my property tax is set to expire? My interpretation of a special tax is that it's for a specific period of time and purpose then goes away. I fully understand the governments have found a golden goose and can now tout that they haven't raised our property taxes. I'm also curious how we would have managed had this been voted down the last time. Guess we would have been bankrupt 5 years ago. One more, if property taxes are raised to provide the funds currently from SPLOST I'm afraid we'll be up to our.... er, ankles in tea.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 4:56pm.

Property tax is up for consideration by Councils and Commissions every year, not voters. They review and set the millage within the confines of State Laws governing property tax.

Property tax is combined with LOST and fees in a General Fund from which Councils draw for budgetary expenditures. They can move money around to different uses and add and delete uses.

SPLOST is approved by the voters, its use is locked and unchangeable, not commingled with property tax, fees and LOST. It is governed by a different set of laws from normal budget, property, sales tax and other incomes. It is special because it is separate.

But rest assured if its uses were not paid for by the SPLOST they could be put back into regular budget and paid for by a property tax increase.

It is special because it is only usable for exacting voter approved uses. It cannot be funded by anything but that 1%. If not used it must be returned to citizens. It must be approved and renewed by the voters.

So, logically, if you want to call a SPLOST renewal a new tax then so is property tax renewal each year.

The purpose does not have to go away after x amount of years. Many projects are recognized as multiple SPLOSTs in different locales. It can be an ongoing purpose, such as ours paying off debt or maintaining golf cart paths.

Bottom line is to pay for a service it has to be charged somewhere. Would you rather it be collected from the broad base of the SPLOST, the narrow base of PTC property owners or discontinued or severely reduced? That is the real point and issue.

If it was voted down last time you would have had a property tax increase after, I hope, current services and such had been reviewed and made more efficient, something that should have been happening all along anyway.

I hope you are seeing the bind local governments are in. The Feds and State have confined the ways we can get income for budgets so much we are really mainly dependent on sales tax and property tax. There is a need for major changes on the Fed and State levels on how funding occurs to give back more control to local governments and make collections more fair and efficient, which they truly are not now.

So, reality is a loss of taxes on the local level means loss of services. We simply do not have the income creation abilities of the Feds and States to find alternative ways. Plus with losses of grants and further limits being added and proposed all the time, it is getting harder, not easier, to make ends meet locally.

If the SPLOST is rejected in this economy I will not support a .6 millage increase unless the citizens of PTC say do it because that would be a rejection of the voters will. That leaves the question what services do we cut until the economy comes back?

Like your home budget, when you don't have it you cannot spend it.

Until the economy comes back a lot of decisions are going to have to be made on priorities.

Between this post and the others I have done I do not see what else I could possible add without just repeating what was already said.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1

TinCan's picture
Submitted by TinCan on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:43pm.

You really don't have to repeat the property vs. special option tax explanation. I got it the first time. What I didn't get is how a special temporary tax for "special purposes" bacame so essential to the future. I don't quite understand how we have the need for extra 10s of millions of dollars (my guess, don't quibble amounts) for projects that were that were over and above the "norm". I guess it comes down to really crappy fiscal planning by someone.

DarkMadam's picture
Submitted by DarkMadam on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 11:37am.

The Mayor and Council (and the new ones come January 01, 2010) need the cash. They are firing every person on the payroll that they feel we can live without. There are 4 more positions up for a vote tonight and I fully expect the vote to be exactly like it was last time... UNANIMOUS! They are unable and unwilling to cut spending in any other way other than payroll. Seems to me that we could use a few less council members. I know for sure that we don’t need an Assistant City Manager. If Bernie can't do his job, let’s get someone who can. There is a guy running for Mayor Scott Rowland. Right now he is the one to watch. He has no axe to grind, no history (unlike the poor history the ones running against him) and he knows finances! That is exactly what is needed here. I have had the chance to speak with him and I am very impressed with his plans. He knows that he has a HUGE mess to clean up behind the current Mayor and Council but he is up to the job. I would like us to start with a CLEAN SLATE. No one running for mayor against him has that!

Submitted by Bonkers on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 5:25am.

A splost lets you authorize a tax on yourself for what the leaders should have done with ordinary taxes they must vote on!

One can't build Tennis Centers and hire cops and fix cart paths at the same time!

They are supposed to build up reserves for needed capital expenditures, but it like a savings account---too tempting.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:23pm.

Maintaining the paths is a norm. Paths needed widening. I know by my development there is a place where some end up over the edge and down a fairly steep bank in years past. Bridges, tunnels and new path segments were/are needed to connect Wilksmoor to the rest of the city. Old path infrastructure was/is aging and needing serious repair work. The 74 expansion has created need for rework and new work to connect parts of the Industrial Park to the rest of PTC.

A lot of work was postponed in years past, new development added more needs and we are simply aging and now need repairs and replacements not needed in the the City's younger years.

Like Stormwater, some components were allowed to deteriorate to the point they were simply caving in, even taking out portions of roads.

As a City grows and ages it gets more and more expensive to maintain. When overlooked for long time you have a lot of work piled up that does not get done overnight or cheaply.

Yes, there was turning of a fiscal blind eye over many Councils. Cannot argue that. Has to end and/or not be allowed to begin again.

That is part of the reason I ran in 2007. Saw to much going down hill and too much status quo on thinking.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 9:05am.

The only reason SPLOSTs have become very common all across the land is because politically it works. Anytime someone dares to suggest a property tax increase, there is open revolt amongst the masses, even if you're talking about $12/year. With a SPLOST, it's not "seen" or "felt" as much as seeing an increase on your property tax statement to the common schmuck. Of course, you pay the tax one way or the other, but how many people really pay attention to how much per year they pay extra due to SPLOST? Politicians know this and I don't blame them for taking advantage of it. The reason is simple: taxpayers demand services, but don't want to pay for them. That's basically intellectual dishonesty. So, why expect your elected officials to not take shortcuts themselves in order to make you happy? In order to provide services, the money has to come from somewhere. No matter how it is sliced or controlled by what can/cannot be spent with SPLOST funds, SPLOST is a definite part of the budget and once they are "in," it's pretty much indefinite. Voters in the vast majority of cases re-approve/extend SPLOSTs.

Here's the solution to no SPLOSTs and very low taxes: quit demanding services from your government! Don't complain about crime and the lack of police unless you want to pay for it. Emergency? 911? Great response time and treatment? Costs MONEY. Golf cart paths more treacherous than driving through Baghdad? Got to pay.

There are always opportunities for greater efficiencies and a better approach to problems, but at some point, it WILL come down to money. You are going to pay one way or the other or you will not get the level of services you desire. There is no Utopia. There was back in the day of impact fees in PTC, but those days are over. Now it's time to take care of business. Too many PTC residents are still stuck in the days of impact fees making everything perfect and not affecting their wallet.

Frankly, I do not like SPLOSTs. I'd rather pay increased property taxes and not have a SPLOST. Combining property taxes+ SPLOSTs always in the end costs you more money, though most people don't see the effect with a SPLOST like they do in prop taxes.

Submitted by PTC Observer on Thu, 07/16/2009 - 1:12pm.

NUK_1 your comments are very valid and I agree with them.

SPLOST is like cocaine, once you have it you can't give it up.

Let's try and go cold turkey on this one and convince our politicians that it's political suicide to support it.

Mr. Haddix, we voted for you to represent us, if you can't or won't do it, then you will need to be removed in the next election.

You should look at what the citizens are asking for in the way of services, and vote property taxes up or down based on these demands. Don't take the easy way out on this.

Isn't that what we elected you to do?

AND please stop justifying our taxes based on the fact that they are only "continued". We have had enough of this rationale. Do you think we are complete idiots?

All Smiles's picture
Submitted by All Smiles on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 8:38am.

No, no, and no!!!! The last SPLOTS which was to be for the schools and transportation improvement had many “hidden” things attached which were brought to the surface after it and long passed and the new By-Pass, which no one wanted nor did we really need, was being built and homes/environment destroyed! Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!!!

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 8:40am.

I travel through Fayetteville ALL the time, and I've yet to see the need for it.

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 8:16am.

or not been at said meeting, the Haddix supporters would have been screaming. As they all know, Haddix is for the SPLOST too.

Just because Logsdon is not running for re-election, doesn't mean he should stop being Mayor.

Haddix and Plunkett are doing just that, they are quitting the Council.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 9:49am.

In 2000 Bush resigned his Texas Governors seat. I didn’t hear you whining then.

In 2008 Obama resigned his U.S. Senate seat. I didn’t hear you whining then.

In 2009 Clinton resigned her U.S. Senate seat. I didn’t hear you whining then.

By law Haddix will have to resign his seat on the council in order to seek a higher office.

So why are you whining now?

If you don't want to vote for Haddix that's your right but quit whining about his having to resign.

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 2:06pm.

It's not hard.

And Obama resigning his Senate seat was VERY good for Illinois, bad for the USA.

I don't like the law myself. We will be stuck with a 3 vote council for a while because of it. I'm not sure how you compare running for POTUS and being a Councilman of PTC, but you tried. I'll give you credit for that.

Of the 3 candidates I know of for Mayor, I'm leaning toward the one that comes on here and tries to explain things..I don't always agree, but I appreciate his candor.

The bigger point of my post went over your head...Logsdon could discover a giant gold mine below City Hall and folks would still complain.

MajorMike's picture
Submitted by MajorMike on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 6:17pm.

"No new taxes Logsden" wants a big share of a new splost? I live in PTC and would like to see a number of improvements but I would not trust our illustrious Mayor to be the one to spec even one of them. He simply can not be trusted. While I like the concept of a splost in that it supposedly lets out of county shoppers help pay for improvements to Fayette County, one must also realize that with the sales tax rate at 7% we are a less attractive shopping destination to those folks from other counties.

This is the wrong time to talk about ANY new taxes. I still have a bad taste in my mouth over the School Board splost and the mismanagement there.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 6:47pm.

Out of county shoppers bring money into PTC?

Very little in comparison to how much we spend elsewhere! Consider the pilots, the vacations we can afford, the trips our kids take, and etc.

Just how many anyway drives to PTC to shop except to the "Red Room?"
And I kinda doubt they collect or pay much "sales Tax."

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 9:04am.

I know you seem to think alcohol is the most evil invention in history, but at least get somewhat informed about alcohol and taxation. A place like the Red Room is responsible for sales taxes, beer and wine taxes, liquor taxes,etc.

Since you claim that the PTC cops totally ignore the Red Room and could care less what happens there as you have stated in your ramblings numerous times, it's not like the taxes that place pays is offset by "increased services" provided by PTCPD since you claim they do nothing at all. So, all those extra taxes should be "free money" for PTC according to your non-thinking.

If you don't think that people are coming from outside Fayette to shop, go to the parking lot at the Avenues or Wal-Mart/Home Depot and see the Coweta license plates. Oh wait, that might require you to DO SOMETHING instead of sitting in front of your computer posting dozens of times a day here.

Submitted by Bonkers on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 10:49am.

Nothing particularily wrong with drinking alcohol.
It is the places where people go to pay 600% mor than one can mix it for at home! There are innumerable "bums" in those places looking for a mark.

Cops ignore the town officials watering holes, not so much the Red Room. It is when they come out and drive that they need to patrol.

I don't shop at the avenue, but I do see at lot of PTC cars in Newman and Fayetteville. Many also favor Atlanta. I say no money is made there.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 11:55am.

I've never understood the economics of bar drinking or at sporting events. If you want to pay a gigantic premium to consume alcohol in these settings....well, to each his own I guess. I've been to the Y-Knot a few times and the Red Room(when it was Martini's) once, and I didn't experience anything there that made me decide that it was worth the extra $$$ to go drink there. Then there is the driving issue.

I can't recall many scary nights driving around PTC dodging impaired drivers. After dark, the streets emtpy and about all I see every now and then is a patrol car checking things out. Mostly I see no one on the road at all. PTCPD has done a good job and the word has gotten around for a while that it's not "safe" for DUI. I credit a lot of that to ex-Chief Murray who believed that sobriety checkpoints were BS and you catch more drunks driving by patrolling the roads than being stationary.

Submitted by Bonkers on Wed, 07/15/2009 - 2:37pm.

Now yolu are not going to try and tll me that of all of the bars in and around PTC, that at closing time and before that there aren't numerous drivers leaving there who have a reading above .08?

As to Chief Murray,, and his refusal to try and show himself at those places at a correct time---he thought he knew where his bread got buttered! Drunks can't react to an emergency and he knew that!!!!
Try the country clubs alone! Can't do that you say?

Submitted by PTCGOIL on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 5:04pm.

I don't think the citizens of PTC give a rat's a__ about YOUR wish list. You ain't gonna be in office, you've already decimated any $$$ we had available and the sooner that we NEVER hear your name spoken at ANY Council meeting after Nov. will not be too soon. I bet you had to wipe the drool off your chin when you heard these dollar amounts thrown about, didn't you? As the old saying goes---FUGGEDDABOUDIT!!!!

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 5:10pm.

But now he can say, "I tried to raise your taxes a few hundred million dollars!"

Oh, no, he wouldn't say that----only that he tried to continue the horror of the city hall bunch!

Submitted by PTCGOIL on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 5:20pm.

clarify for you. Only this once. Harry isn't gonna get to use his shopping list 'cuz Harry isn't gonna be in office. We DO need this SPLOST, but it's use is gonna be decided by....NOT Harry.....That's all I'm gonna say here.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 07/14/2009 - 6:22pm.

I was under the impression that you were a republican!

Do you understand that this is a hundred million plus TAX INCREASE?

Are you or your family paid by taxes? Not that there is anything wrong with that!

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