Your problem here is that you walked in with preconceived notions and sought to validate those notions. Naturally, you reached your goal, because your preconceived notions affect your perception.

First, you have to understand something about the people who are part of this movement. We want to take responsibility for our lives, not having government take that responsibility. We believe in a smaller government that listens to our voices and upholds our constitutional rights. This is nonpartisan, and mainly represents those of the moderate persuasion on both sides of the aisle. We don't want government telling us how we have to spend our money just as we don't want government infringing on our right to privacy, our right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, or telling us we can't do something contradictory to Christian doctrine.

Some common issues we have are with nationalized health care, cap-and-trade, and auditing the federal reserve. We are opposed to the first two on the basis of the size and power of government. Once government gets into health care, you can bet there will be no getting it out. That does NOT mean we are opposed to health care reform- we are opposed to the federal power grab and the trashing of our constitution (remember, the constitution is an enumeration of federal power - what it can do). Cap-and-trade is an enormous power grab, and an unnecessary tax and that undoubtedly trickle down to us common folk. Why are we trying to change the face of our energy consumption by giving the federal government more CONTROL over our current sources of energy as opposed to assisting efforts to ENABLE alternative sources? This is completely the wrong way to go about it, and it's all about CONTROL. We are all about taking CONTROL away from the federal government and putting it in the hands of personal responsibility. Auditing the federal reserve is a simple one, and it's hard to believe anyone other than the power hungry in Washington being opposed to it.

On to your arguments....

The "impeach socialist Obama" people are not representative of the crowd that showed up there. Since your eyes were so drawn to them, did you bother to notice that they were walking by themselves mostly, and not many were talking to them. Obama has done nothing impeachable, and the people get the president they elect. This is like saying that those who advocate eco-terrorism represent all those who show up at to demonstrate for environmental responsibility. To indicate otherwise is a straw man argument.

Attacking the maturity of the crowd and Lynn Westmoreland's political affiliation is nothing more than an argumentum ad hominem. You are attacking the messenger, not the message. Did you actually listen to what he said at this event? There really wasn't anything partisan about it, and there definitely wasn't anything racist or fundamentalist about it.

You are also operating under the false assumption that we LOOOOOVE what the past administration did for the past 8 years, and that simply isn't true. We are pissed about Bush's inflation of our deficit and intrusion on our Constitutional rights (hello patriot act). The past 8 years have brought us to a boiling point, and now that Obama is further increasing the defecit and further infringing on our rights by increase the CONTROL the federal government has over our lives (and we damn well know that once the government gets power over something it doesn't give it back) the pot is boiling over. Sucks for him that he has to bear the brunt of our pent-up discontent, but too bad, as We the People come before his feelings and agenda.

You mention illegal war and torture, and yeah, those may be issues for some, but we are concerned FIRST and FOREMOST with upholding the Constitution as it applies to We the People, the citizens of the United States. The Constitution limits the power of the federal government by explicitly enumerating its powers, and codifying our pre-existing rights (not by giving us those rights - it gives nothing, but simply recognizes specific rights and reserves those rights not enumerated for the States and the people). This administration's and the previous administration's grab for more power and control, are in direct opposition to the word and spirit of the Constitution.

You are right about one thing though- we represent a self-interest. Our interest as a group is in taking back our power and responsibilities as individuals. This country was built on personal responsibility and rugged individualism. Go ahead and push further for a nanny state that takes care of everything for you, but don't complain when that nanny state also exerts control over every aspect of your life. Your pointing out of our "contradictions" is specious at best, as they involve false assumptions and more straw men.

And for the record, WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO TAXES. We know a government needs income to function. What we are opposed to is how our money is spent, and the amount of taxation required to fund irresponsible spending. The issue of a federal income tax is another matter, but we know we need to pay taxes for a working government.

To all that showed up, it was a great time, and thanks for having myself and my girlfriend. We were the two in Gadsden shirts (Don't Tread on Me) with our two big signs.

Lib, what you witnessed on 4 July may be just the beginning of a long overdue movement. I say, THANK GOD WE HAVE CITIZENS WILLING TO PUT THEIR TIME AND EFFORT WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS!! WORKING citizens are tired; frustrated; and in all candor, FED UP!!

Congress is totally clueless. During my 70+ years, have seen some real doozies representing citizens in Congress, but in recent decades, they have raced to reach their minimum level of mediocrity! The leaders are baffling! They could not make it in the private sector, so they steal us blind in Congress. They develop and pass bills without reading them; they spend fortunes today, and bill later generations; they fail to do their homework with respect to short and long term consequences for their actions; and if they do not know an answer, they simply lie! They are big on passing emotional -- "makes me feel good" -- resolutions, but cannot bring themselves to provide considered thought to an issue that would benefit all LEGAL citizens!

Candidly, do not want my grandkids or great grandkids exposed to the lack of intellect and morals of this sub species -- called 'POLITICIAN'.

Seriously, think that the American people are fed up, and there are times when I seriously fear what may happen when a congressional mental midget tips the scales and sends the population over the top. Maybe -- just maybe -- it would be beneficial for all!

if it were a give-away---medicaid maybe-but definitely not Medicare.
the cost of medicare is taken off the top of my social security check before I ever receive it. I have paid my dues by paying in to social security for years (I had no other option given to me) now that I am collecting social security and working a little minimum wage job several days a week, they still take social security and FICA out of this tiny check. No where do I get a free ride.

a giveaway--it's just a loan. The state will file for recovery against the estate of the recipient upon death.

estate to go after??

Everyone has an estate--some worth lots, some worth zilch. I've been down thie road with my Mom who died in Jul 08. All that is left is the residence and land it sits on and the State of NC has filed to recover their medicaid expenditures. Eventually, it will mean they get the house and I get nothing--and I''m ok with that.

I know there are instances where any property owned by the person who ends up being on Medicaid was turned over to family members before apply for the aid. There have also been cases where family members lament the fact that the estate has to reimburse Medicaid for monies spent, i.e., "they are taking our heritage", etc. Maybe I am from the old school but I think families should take care of each other as much as is possible. Why should the government (you and me) pay for someone's tremendous medical bills and the home they owned go to the children or other relatives that did nothing to take care of them or their medical bills. It has only been since the government decided to be Big Daddy and take care of everything while taxing others to pay for it that we have fostered the mentality that families should have no responsibility. This is just one of the things that is tearing down the very fabric of our country. Women have babies and feel Big Daddy and not birth daddy should foot the bill. Daddy buys a pack of diapers once in a while and Mommy considers that taking care of his kid. We give free breakfast, free lunch and free snacks as well as Aid to Dependent Children, WIC, welfare and on and on. Now it is not temporary help but an entitlement. What is going to happen when those making the money and paying the taxes decide 'enough' and stop working also? Every cow goes dry if it is not fed properly and the day will come when the government (you and me again) cow dries up completely--then God help us all.

Oh, I don't see how I can pass this one up!

Any thing signed over or sold to family less than five years before using Medicaid is useless as a need for Medicaid, so if you want to give your property away now so that you can apply in 2014, do it now!

Medicaid does not have to be reimbursed unless lies were told when it was applied for previously!

My family won't pay my bills, so will you please do so--I am comment family. You must be kidding with this one-----someone is going to pay Piedmont 75,000 dollars for the old dude dying there? Sell the house, molly--dad is sick.

I don't know what you mean to take care of family "as much as possible," but i'll bet it doesn't mean, "sell the house."

Now, don't discuss people's "baby daddies!" Most of some races know the baby daddy but others really do not and do not want to know.
No collection there.

YThe fabric in our country is currently made of soft tissue, heavy reinforced fabric disappeared with the hippies, and Richard Nixon.

As to everyone to stop working so as not to have to pay for those who do not work, I would then be in their caregory wouldn't I.

Let's talk about a dry cow for a minute. Food, I don't think is what makes a cow go dry (or lack thereof). If she doesn't get pregnant she doesn't produce milk, just like a woman.
Or at least that was my understanding when I was raised on a farm.
We had at least one bull for some reason, and other people with milk cows came and let them date our bull.

I enjoy explaining such things.

You are 100% wrong when you say that medicaid doesn't have to be reimbursed unles lies are told in the original application. If you read--and understood my pervious post, you know I have personal experience. If you had any experience with medicaid, you would know that county & state officials check all legal records & bank accts before your application is approved. I know I told no lies but the state of NC has filed for reimbursement. And just to repeat, I'm ok with that--I never wanted a handout, just a handup, all to make sure my Mom had the best care and comfort in her last years and days.

The government is not nor wants to be in the real estate business. They never take back a house.
Some states do evaluate the worth of an estate but only in the case of someone who was institutionalized and paid for by the government, and then only if the estate happens to be large where they may take a portion.
That is likely to be a case of where assets were gained after eligibility when little assets were had, or facts were different than when applied!How m uch did they take from your relative?

You just don't understand, do you. It's not "the government", it's an individual state decision. Nothing to do with "real estate", they just file for a monetary amount and if real estate is the only way they can recover expenditure, they'll take it. It's clear to me that you have no clue what the real rules are.

probably done the same thing to make sure my mother was taken care of if I was unable. My problem is with those who think we should take care of their kin while they want to hold on to whatever that patient owned, be it land, a home or whatever. If it had become necessary I would have gladly given up her home to see that she was cared for. Many people on medicaid have no home, nothing of value. Bonkers, as usual, goes off on one of his tangents. He is like Swami--knows all, sees all, hears all and is always ready to tell all.

See my answer to GYM, please.

milk when it is pregnant. Are you sure you were ever on a farm? We have had milk cows and goats that were never pregnant and gave milk. Also, any thing or person, pregnant or not, would not be able to function if they did not eat or have something to eat. I hate having to explain all of this to you Bonky because you seem to know so much.

I suspect you were "sheltered" on your farm!

Read please:

The production of cow milk requires that a cow be in lactation which is the result of giving birth. There is about 12-16 months between dry spells and pregnancy.Have you not noticewd when a female human is pregnant she leaks milk---at no other time.
Some things can be forced but milk farmers don't!
Anyway the calves are worth more for veal than milk is and bull calves are all sold for that, except maybe a very good one for other purposes later.

Now horse impregnation is another story.

I know you know how to read and quote from wikepedia etc but I also know that as an adult I had a child who had to have goat's milk and we bought a milk goat--my husband milked it every other day. She never was mated and gave so much milk we shared it with neighbors. When I was younger we also had a milk cow--no bull-no pun intended, except when referring to you--same thing-had milk to spare. She was never artifically inseminated nor did she ever have a 'visitor'.
Believe me, you definitely are the last person I would go to for sex education, as I really believe a goonie bird dropped you on a rock and the sun hatched you. And you are even wrong about humans. There have been instances of females being able to be wet nurses to babies who had lost a mother,etc, without the female being pregnant or having given birth.

You are supposed to milk animals 2-3 times a day-=--not every other day!
I have milked a few in my time!

Did you have these animals over 16 months?
I don't know any wet-nurses but maybe they were mostly pregnant. The old 1800 Georgia Nannies usually were for good purpose cause Mommy wouldn't nurse the babies.

As I said before you were "sheltered." The cow probably had to break out and go see farmer Brown down the road! He sold the calf when it came and bought whiskey!

There can be no other answer. maybe the cow breaking out to see Farmer Brown explains you. Maybe he didn't sell the offspring after all.

And you are wrong all animals do not have to be milked two to three times a day. If you read correctly I said these ladies were not pregnant or lactating in any manner before the need arose. I think you are the one who has led a sheltered life--certainly from your anti-social behavior on this site there must not have been too much interacton with humans--maybe you spent too much time with the livestock. Was Bessie your first love? Or was it Bossie?

I re-checked several sources on goat milking.

It is 100% recommended that they be milked at least twice per day (12 hours apart) and as much as three times to produce the most milk.
Mastitis and other problems (drying up) can occur if they are mistreated.

I simply think you were not informed of much.

I re-checked several sources on goat milking.

It is 100% recommended that they be milked at least twice per day (12 hours apart) and as much as three times to produce the most milk.
Mastitis and other problems (drying up) can occur if they are mistreated.

I simply think you were not informed of much.

There is no harm in your checking for yourself and admitting you were misinformed! Nothing is so just because one wants to think it is!

This should become your mantra because you more than anyone wants things to be as they think they are. Did you have to post your blog twice to convince yourself? Our goat lived a long and happy life and was never mistreated. Like most people who accept everything they read, you take everything as gospel. If our goat had needed to be milked more often she would have been. She was happy with the output and so were we. And as much as you would like to know everything about everything I believe that I may just be a little more qualified re: lactation in humans having given birth several times. How were your pregnancies?

and the sun hatched you.

Well that certainly does explain things.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

It was a crow and what it did wasn't exactly a drop. Well I guess in one sense it was. Let's just say it flew a little lighter after that.

that is not always possible with Bonkers. I have heard it both ways. My dad used to say the goonie bird--probably to keep it clean for us kids.

I just don't have much to say about beer, beach and bleach, red-nek riviera, sweatin on the porch, drivin just for sake of drivin, best "Eats" place that are cheep, whar one kin hold a waiter hostage fer a bign tip, bars, red rooms, T-party non-progressives, Palins, wreslin, NASCARIN, starbuckin, warrin, supportin our boys (and gals) wif talk only, mentionin Ragin ever chainge fer his wonfurel spendin spre and popularizin star-gazin and star wars, Churches (Ragin never went to one), them what are sorry and don't haf much money, them whut dont wurk hard as I do, and of course nevir saw ever enny thang rong wif westmorelan & rush and Sean and Bill, an them fak blondes wif short skirt.

"my preconceived notions about the Tea Party Patriots were completely validated."

You went with a closed mind you left with one.. I am SHOCKED..
I guess you don't recognize, being a progressive and all that, that a group of people can have a commom theme, but each with a different agenda.
A lot of TPs are specifically excluding ANY Politicians.. Some ask for one or two.. Just because you attend an event with an overall theme does not make you "partisan", but even if you are is that wrong?

Code Pink crowd.. are they partisan? How about the Gay Marriage crowd?
Elf and Alf Partisan?

Having a belief in something is wrong?

We protest because we are Patriots.. Heck Hillery Clinton said it was a Patriots duty to protest.. So we are just following the tenets of a good Liberal.. you should be pleased.

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

I couldn't have said it better. It's great that you took the time to post that, but it's too bad that most teabaggers will not comphrend that this is not a 'Thoreau' type protest in any sense, for many of the reasons you state above.

It's good to know that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Sounds to me like you attended the tea party rally so you would have plenty of complaints to write about. If you don't agree with the concept or the cause why would you spend part of your holiday at the rally. sounds to me like you needed to take notes so you could continue to bitch and gripe. if I didn't like country music I certainly would not attend a country music concert just so I would have something new to complain about. see you at the next rally. they get better and better. ENJOY

That term has been used for over 25 years to describe the area...I don't see the big deal.

I was only fishing. The "shocked...SHOCKED" line in my post should have given that away. I don't give a damn what they call their foolish organization. I'm quite familiar with the area and the local lingo. I've lived in PTC for 30 years. I was just seeing how many asses would bite. Consider yourselves "punked!"

All Along The Watchtower

In the Southern Crescent that is. Sometimes, sarcasm doesn't translate well through the keyboard.

That being said, Bless Your Little Heart

Well aren't you just special!

it refers to the "MOON" so climb down off your high horse.. wipe the spittal off your screen and settle down Francis... Your knickers are all bunched up..

Many busniess locally use the term as well.. so sit down, have a cup of joe and... well you know..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

I was only fishing. The "shocked...SHOCKED" line in my post should have given that away. I don't give a damn what they call their foolish organization. I'm quite familiar with the area and the local lingo. I've lived in PTC for 30 years. I was just seeing how many asses would bite. Consider yourselves "punked!"

All Along The Watchtower

I know you are but what am I..
Please feel free to waste our time in the future.. Oh and by the way it only works once.. Long memorys and all that.. Buh Bye now.. Us Adults have to go to work to pay for someones welfare check..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

ALL taxes paid by individuals goes directly to the Federal Reserve System to pay the interest on the money borrowed from it by your loving DC government, and that's ALL. It doesn't pay for courts, infrastructure, or the military.

Corporate income tax pays for the military. Gasoline taxes pay for bridges and roads. Property taxes pay for schools.

The Federal Reserve Act AND the Income Tax Act BOTH passed in 1913 in the same session of Congress, coincidence? I think NOT.

From 1776-1913, 137 years, the USA did just fine with no income tax on individuals, so why was it changed?

You are being lied to, study it for yourself. Seek the truth, know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

In Liberty,

DarthDubious

"I have not heard any meaningful suggestions from the T Partiers that would satisfy their disagreement with paying taxes, but only sweeping generalizations about being angry"

Then you are not listening.. It is not all about TAXES.. IT IS HOWEVER ABOUT A GOVERNMENT OUT OF CONTROL.. IT STARTED WITH PRESIDENT BUSH AND THE DEMOCRAT CONTROLLED CONGRESS AND CONTINUES TODAY.. If you think that all is just Hunky dory and that the Government is doing just fine THANK YOU.. then continue to bury your head.. We however will continue the fight.. So sit down... buckle up.. and enjoy the ride..

There will always be those that come out of hiding after the smoke has cleared look to the warrior and say.. "Look what WE did"...

So you too will enjoy the fruits of our labor.. seems like a common theme these days..

"Ever vigilant we must be to protect the Constitution.. For if we do not it will slip quietly away and FREEDOM will be forever lost to us.."

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

The less the government does FOR you, the less they can do TO you!

S. Lindsey, if the T Party is not about taxes then please tell me what has happened between 2006 and 2008 that has you so angry and what are you going to do about it?

The start of any movement against an established/entrenched authority has to begin with knowledge. That is why the Government has fought so hard to control the educational system in this Country and why avowed Socialist/Communist "teach" in so called higher education facilities. We are slowly but surely educating the masses.. Pointing out the fiscal irresponcibility of the Government. When this Government waste Billions of OUR taxes to special intrest groups in earmarks for their pet projects.. we stand up and show them to the masses that have for years ignored the truth..
What has me/us so angry.. See above.. I do not want my taxes spent on figuring out why pig crap stinks.. or why Mormon crickets have sex etc.. This does not pi$$ you off?

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

My friends all pack off to the tea parties and wonder why I don't join them. After all, I support lower taxes and limited government. So why don't I rally with everyone else at the parties?

Because they're nothing more than opportunities for talking heads (Hannity, etc) and useless politicians (Westmoreland, Cain, etc) to pander. People like Hannity will say whatever will get the ratings. And right now he thinks he can get the support of the growing libertarian movement. The same goes for Westmoreland... when they're in office, they want to bloviate about meaningless things that the government has no business getting involved with (ten commandments, other social issues that appeal to certain core support groups but are well outside the Constitutional bounds of the government)... and then when they're out of office or their party is out of the majority they talk about issues that really matter. Westmoreland wants to take shots at the Department of Homeland Security... and yet he supported Bush's creation of the department (which was a dumb idea from the start) and blindly voted for things like the Patriot Act that give the Obama administration many of the powers they're upset about now.

I couldn't go to one of those rallies- I'd get ticked off and leave the first time one of those hypocrites opened their mouth. And I'd be really disappointed that so many people were falling for their hype.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on the Tea Parties and those of a lot of other libertarian-leaning people.

Yeah, libertarianism is cool right now and Neil Boortz jumped on the bandwagon before a lot of the TP crowd did, but I don't see anything new going on here. Talk about taxation and govt BS all you want, but when your speakers are people who want to cram the Bible into law and were every bit as gung-ho about "Patriot Acts" and nation-building abroad(which either leads to tons of taxation or deficits), you aren't serious. It's a reactionary hissy fit.

When the TP crowd gets over their mantra of how "we were really at made Bush the last 8 years too! HONEST!" and takes stock in themselves, they won't have pseudo-conservatives like Lynn Westmoreland speaking or some Boortz wanna-be like Hannity. Someone with Barry Goldwater's ideas would make most of the TP crowd wet their pants in fright, yet they say that's what they want, and at the same time think of Ronald "Run Up the Deficits and Expand Government Rapidly" Reagan is a "conservative" hero.

Once the TP crowd renounces most Repubs is the day they start getting taken seriously. I didn't see them all rushing around to vote for Ron Paul last year and what they are espousing these days sounds a lot like what Paul campaigned on. I think the TP group is going to make noise and then safely run back and vote for any old Repub around, including a real doofus like Westmoreland who can't wait to shove the 3 Commandments down your throat.

It is not about taxes, it is about power and who should have it. The more money you give the government the less freedom you have. The more money you are forced to give the government the less you have to say about how you conduct your life. You like many other Americans simply don't understand this fundamental fact. I for one would rather risk the uncertainties in life than give up my freedom to a government that makes decisions for me. Look up the definition of a Fascist State, then think about it a little.

I liked it. I thought it was a great time. It was focused on we the people not we the government. Marty Harbin was the one unexpected surprise, he was great. I loved his oversized money and his many hilarious one liners.

I did not like the obnoxious lady walking the aisle blocking people's view and annoying everyone and her friend with the two signs who was not much better. The signs said impeach Obama. The problem is Obama has not done anything impeachable. This group seems to have failed government in school and manners. There seems to be a few in every bunch.

I also did not like the foul mouthed man and his obscenities during Theo Scott's speech. There were kids in the audience they did not come to hear his foul mouth. I do however agree with his point that he weakly made and that is Theo Scott's speech became garbage after he said the world could live in peace and war was not needed. In one breathe he disrespected our troops and all that they stand for and all that they are fighting for, our freedoms. Kindly Mr. Scott refrain from adding your opinion about war in a speech about big government. And sir with the foul mouth, there are better ways to show your intelligence, choose your words wisely there are young ears listening.

I completely agree with you, arwenmulli. One slight exception is the comment on Mr. Scott's speech. I think (but could be wrong) that he was quoting from Thomas Paine's book "Common Sense".

I took my teenaged daughter so that she could see what standing up for what you believe in is all about. She said she thought is was interesting and got the gist of it. I'll take that! We thought Mr. Harbin was on target and also funny. A little humor gores a long way these days!