Obama said it.. and EVERY LIBERAL HERE REPEATED IT...
Remember 95% of Americans will not see their taxes go up one penny.. OBAMA PROMISED.. So it's got to be so..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

They can deduct my health care cost from my future Social Security payments. With every payment the gov will be reducing it's future obligations thereby lowering future deficits; a win-win situation!

that you actually have SS funds available.. I and many others like me.. WILL NEVER SEE A DIME OF SS.. You also assume that there is some big money vault sitting somewhere with all the ss payments going into it.. THERE IS NO SUCH "LOCKBOX" Jeff you know this.. So there are no "future" funds to pull from.. You presume to spend the money NOW and pay it back at some nebulous future date.. That is the current mindset of this administration and Congress.. Spend now "pay??" later..
There is no win-win... Jeff debt added to debt is a sure loser...

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

They're going to owe me Social Security payments, I'm going to have to pay them for health insurance, seems like a wash to me. That's how I want to pay my part instead of giving them real money. They can feel free to reduce my future benefits. In fact, the more I think about it, that's how I want to start paying my income taxes too. Tell them to just leave me alone until all my future SS income they're going to owe me is gone, then I'll start paying them their taxes again and I won't ever put a Social Security claim in. It's a great plan.

for you it might work.. but what happens to those of us that will not see any ss.. The gov knows we will notrecieve a dime.. so they are not about to forgo a revenue stream knowing the "future" payments are not going to happen anyway..
Now I might be dense here and missing a nuance.. I think you might be saying this a little "tongue n cheek".. if so.. I think I got it..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

After all, it was a campaign promise.
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Fish still biting?

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

as those fish needed it.

Last Monday in the late afternoon I had a nice ladyfish that was putting a good fight and noticed this dark shadow in the water following this fish. The shadow and the fish finally met in a rather big splash. Turns out the shadow was a 5' spinner shark and it made a meal out of that ladyfish. This happen about 15' from me. That was a hoot.

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"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

fat. Darn buffets!
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Going to the Lady and Sons tomorrow...
Then hitting Wet Willies on River Street...
Watching the ships roll in...

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

buffet. I'm sorry, but you can only do so much with fried chicken.
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but you know my better half.. DO I REALLY HAVE A CHOICE..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

Give us a shout when you get there.

Good night!
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"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

"Thank God doctors don't dictate health policy"

Did you think about that before you typed this?? You really want POLITICIANS deciding rather you or your family should have certain procedures, medicines, treatments etc..??? REALLLLLYYYY

You reek of Socialism buddy... You think Socialized Healthcare is the answer.. Then answer this.. WHY IS EUROPE TRENDING AWAY FROM THIS TYPE OF HEALTHCARE AND ITS CITIZENS COME TO AMERICA FOR TREATMENT?
WHY CAN"T WOMEN WHO HAVE BREAST CANCER IN THE UK GET THE MEDICENES NEEDED TO "CURE" THEIR ILLNESS?
WHY IF YOU ARE OVER 65 IT NOW TAKES 10 MONTHS JUST TO GET AN MRI?
I could go on and on..
Oh and on the profit driven crap you spewed.. YOU LIVE IN AMERICA.. NOT SOME 3RD WORLD BACKWATER.. PROFITS drive innovation and discoveries.. GOVERMENT INOVATES NOTHING.

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

Really? So companies that perform very expensive R&D to provide treatments and new medicines or come up with new technologies to fight diseases should just......well, just do it for free. Now that's just a real novel idea.
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"healthcare should Never be Profit-driven" now that's change you can believe in, NOT!

Obama's weapon of Choice!

"healthcare should NEVER be profit-driven"-here in lies the problem that springs from the breast of every person. We are profit driven. We make choices to maximize our own best interests. There is also the universal truth that if something is free of cost to the user, the user will use it more. If profit is driven out of the training and education-intensive field of medicine, it will drive out the talent. The schooling is too expensive and the time committment is too great to not have a benefit on the other side.
This stuff is not new. Let's use Great Britain as an example. Universal Healthcare has been implemented there for a number of years. The home grown pool of people willing to become doctors dried up. The hospitals and clinics continued to need doctors, so they recruited them from abroad. The railway station bombings of a couple of years ago there were planned and executed by medical doctors from the Middle East. Universal Healthcare will eventually become rationed healthcare-of course that may ultimate action here anyway.
The other thing that evolves in a universal care realm is a secondary tier of specialists outside of the system that cater to the wealthy. This difference will be resented by the populace who must use the rationed care and this tier will be legislated out of existence and driven underground.

There is nothing new under the sun

Folks, just hold your criticism and read this lengthy piece for your own PERSONAL BENEFIT! Until the administration starts talking TORT reform and LESS REGULATION, which the President dismissed on Monday with the AMA, he is whistling Dixie to reduce cost and maintain quality. Suggest you ask your OWN PHYSICIAN what HIS/HER plans are for the future. YOU MAY BE SHOCKED!! Folks, do not forget the 'Law of Supply and Demand', and the old capitalistic proverb -- YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

One can debate whether or not health care is a right or a commodity until dooms day. But if you do not have a delivery system, the argument becomes moot! There are also times when we really do not know just how well we have it. Easy to complain about 'wait times', but there are still countries that have no office to 'wait'!

NOW -- READ!

U.S. Faces Shortage of Primary Care Physicians
Doctors frustrated with paperwork, lack of time to see patients

November 19, 2008

A survey by the Physicians' Foundation has uncovered what it calls widespread frustration and concern among primary care physicians nationwide, which could lead to a dramatic decrease in practicing doctors in the near future. The survey examined the causes behind the doctors' dissatisfaction, the state of their practices and the future of care.

The resulting findings show the possibility of significantly decreased access for Americans in the years ahead, as many doctors are forced to reduce the number of patients they see or quit the practice of medicine outright.

An overwhelming majority -- 78 percent -- of physicians believe that there is an existing shortage of primary care doctors in the United States today. Additionally, nearly half of them -- 49 percent, or more than 150,000 practicing doctors-- say that over the next three years they plan to reduce the number of patients they see or stop practicing entirely.

"Going into this project we generally knew about the shortage of physicians; what we didn't know is how much worse it could get over the next few years," said Lou Goodman, PhD, President of The Physicians' Foundation. "The bottom line is that the person you've known as your family doctor could be getting ready to disappear -- and there might not be a replacement."

The Physicians' Foundation believes the future of primary care could have a significant impact on the American health care debate.

"At a time when the new administration and new Congress are talking about ways to expand access to health care, the harsh reality is that there might not be enough doctors to handle the increased number of people who might want to see them if they get health insurance," said Walker Ray, MD, Vice President of The Physicians' Foundation. "It's as if we're talking about expanding access to higher education without having enough professors to handle the influx of students. It's basic supply and demand."

The reported reasons for the widespread frustration among physicians include increased time dealing with non-clinical paperwork, difficulty receiving reimbursement and burdensome government regulations. Physicians say these issues keep them from the most satisfying aspect of their job: patient relationships.

"Tens of thousands of primary care doctors face the same problems as millions of ordinary citizens: frustrations in dealing with HMOs and government red tape," said Sandra Johnson, board member of The Physicians' Foundation. "The thing we heard over and over again from the physicians was that they're unhappy they can't spend more time with their patients, which is why they went into primary care in the first place."

It needs changing-- must be changed. 50 million have no insurance!
I agree that healthcare should not be profit driven.
Medical professionals need not be millionaires from working in the health fields (doctors, administrators and others.)

Piedmont-Fayette need not have 1500, plus doctors, employees.

An emergency room visit with an x-ray costs about $3000 after a six hour wait at Piedmont-Fayette. Outrageous! (Of course SS and other insured don't pay but about half that).

About 25% of our economy is supported by healthcare---way too much.
One can' go to any medical facility without seeing several $100K+, well dressed medicine peddlers pushing their little carts. Free meals and vacations, also.

So two foreign doctors in Britian bombed them. We have half a million foreign doctors here now--it is a moneytree to them, also.

There will always be special treatment for wealthy or important people---we want that! We may get to be one.

It needs changing-- must be changed. 50 million have no insurance!
INCORRECT-Latest numbers thrown out by Dems is 42 Million.. Lets look at some real numbers..
Approx 15 Million-are self INSURED and as such do not need a plan.. They are COUNTED as un-insured..
Another 10 Million are young workplace individuals who OPT OUT of a EMPLOYER PROVIDED plan.. They want to keep the money for other uses.. They are COUNTED as UN-INSURED..
The last 17 Million are actually UN-INSURED.. HOWEVER approx 40% of these are illegal aliens and SHOULD NOT RECEIVE TAXPAYER FUNDED HEALTHCARE...
So starting out with your initial premise sets the tone for the rest of your argument...

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

"Piedmont-Fayette need not have 1500, plus doctors, employees."

Interesting. You complain about six hour waits and yet you think they're overstaffed.

Unless it has changed, the emergency room at Fayette Piedmont is "contracted" out to those who make a profit!

Of course in addition to the 1500 employees, the hospital also contracts out an enormous amount of their work!

The place is a "job factory" with some way overpaid.

They spend untold amounts just false billing their customers and insurance and government insurance. They pick up on every bill every $8 tylenol and $15 band-aid for every visit. Drug charges are overbilled about 2000%. (above cost).

This could go on and on.

And room charges!!!!Whew.

They report having 1100 Employees and 3660+ Physicians.

If you were a certain CEO for a Health-care Company you would be sitting pretty. About 25% of our economy is supported by health-care..yep, Bonkers got to keep those CEO'S in their Castles. God forbid they don't get their millions and millions every year. How would you like to make $5,000,000.00 a year when you retire Bonkers?

From CWA.

Health Care
Employer CEO Year Compensation Multiple of $40,000
HCA Jack Bovender 2004 $ 8,309,928 208
The Frist family, founders of HCA, have a net worth of $1.7 billion.
Kaleida Health William D. McGuire 2004 $ 1,780,157* 45
*Includes $296,693 contribution to employee benefit plans for McGuire.
United Healthcare William W. McGuire 2004 $ 36,988,014 925
While United Healthcare isn't a CWA employer, it is the health plan carrier of choice for AT&T, Verizon, Qwest, and NJ state workers. Since 1995, McGuire has pocketed at least $450 million by exercising his stock options. On top of that, he still holds stock options worth $1.6 BILLION. And when he retires, McGuire will receive a pension of more than $5 million a year!

The above was for 2004, in 2005 William W. McGuire CEO of UNITED HEALTHCARE made $124 million. How many people could have been covered with Health-care with $124 MILLION for one year? Now what did he do that was so spectacular to receive $124 million for one year? I'll bet they will say, Oh we made money for the share holders. I wonder how many people they didn't or wouldn't cover on their Health-care? This of course included stock options but you can see above he exercised his options. Even after all that he still has options for $1.6 BILLION.
I don't care if your God him/herself you don't deserve that kind of money.

Boo has got it right. Those who blog here about health insurance, socialism, etc., haven’t got a clue.

A good part of the problem is people raking in unconscionable amounts of money out of the people who pay health insurance premiums.

As an example of what is being paid, consider that in 2007 the CEOs of the five largest health insurers (WellPoint, United Health Group, Humana, Aetna and Cigna) received compensation of $9,094,271, $13,164,529, $10,312,557, $23,045,834 and $25,839,777 respectively. Wellpoint owns Blue Cross Blue Shield of Georgia.

There is an incredible amount of dumbness and stubborness among the people who declare themselves ready to support the status quo. They simply don’t know better.

If the government ran the health care system, nobody would rake in $10 million to $25 million a year like that. A recent survey showed WellPoint as having a worse record payment (lateness and mistakes) than the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), which is the government operation run by people whose annual salary does not exceed $200,000 and has an excellent record.

If people ever get dissatisfied with their government system, they can always vote the bums out. That’s what’s happened in November 2008, except that the people of Fayette County weren’t smart enough to participate.

Hate to say it but a huge reason that "Insurance" is so expensive is that states mandate insurance carriers to cover everything from pregnancy to substance abuse care. So as a male, I have to pay inflated insurance premiums in case I get pregnant. I always thought that insurance was there to cover unexpected costs, not routine health care.

A good part of the problem is people raking in unconscionable amounts of money out of the people who pay health insurance premiums.

OK, how about throwing in some supporting percentages to illustrate the size of this issue.

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While you are waiting for those fish to jump on your hook. Sorry for the length but good info takes some time to read.
This blogger says it better than I can. From the website Shesright.org Blogger name Mister Guy

Mister Guy
June 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
“What percentage of our insurance premiums go to administration costs, ‘huge profits’, and CEO pay?”

According to the insurance industry group America’s Health Insurance Plans, administrative costs for private health insurance plans have averaged approximately 12% of premiums over the last 40 years. A 2003 study published by the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association also found that health insurer administrative costs were approximately 11% to 12% of premiums. According to a report published by the CBO in 2008, administrative costs for private insurance represent approximately 12% of premiums.

“The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 120 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.”

“the United States has $480 billion in excess spending each year in comparison to Western European nations that have universal health insurance coverage. The costs are mainly associated with excess administrative costs and poorer quality of care.”

“The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations.”

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

“The United States spends nearly 40 percent more on health care per capita than its G.D.P. per capita would predict.”

“The McKinsey Global Institute estimated that excess spending on ‘health administration and insurance’ accounted for as much as 21 percent of the estimated total excess spending ($477 billion in 2003). Brought forward, that 21 percent of excess spending on administration would amount to about $120 billion in 2006 and about $150 billion in 2008. It would have been more than enough to finance universal health insurance this year.”

“The McKinsey team estimated that about 85 percent of this excess administrative overhead can be attributed to the highly complex private health insurance system in the United States. Product design, underwriting and marketing account for about two-thirds of that total.”

“One of these is an earlier McKinsey study explaining the difference in 1990 health spending in West Germany and in the United States. The researchers found that in 1990 Americans received $390 per capita less in actual health care but spent $360 more per capita on administration.”

http://economix.blogs.nytimes......ive-costs/

“On December 2nd 2008, Emdeon and Newt Gingrich’s Center for Health Transformation (CHT) announced the formation of the U.S. Healthcare Efficiency Index.

The US Healthcare Efficiency Index measures the progress towards use of electronic transactions and stands at a lowly 43%. Current electronic transaction utilization for medical claims ranges from Claims (75%), Eligibility Verification and Claims Status (both 40%), Claim Remittance Advice (26%) and Payments (10%).

Converting the remaining paper transactions to electronic is estimated to save the U.S. healthcare system $30 billion annually.”

“A 2007 McKinsey Global Institute study of healthcare costs in the US concluded that the US spends $1,600 per capita ‘more on healthcare than other OECD countries’ and ‘found that the overriding cause … is the failure of the intermediation system - payors, employers and government - to provide sufficient incentives to patients and consumers.’ Despite this excess spending, the U.S. provides coverage to 85% of the population, compared to 100% in most other OECD countries. McKinsey estimates that, of the U.S. excess spending on healthcare overall, more than 20% is attributable to administration and insurance.”

http://news.avancehealth.com/2.....ative.html

“while Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon raised individual policy rates by 26 percent in 2008 and is asking for another double-digit increase this year, its president and CEO, Mark Ganz, is the highest-paid insurance executive in Oregon. After receiving an 11 percent raise, his 2008 salary and bonus totaled $872,665. In fact, Regence handed out raises to its entire executive team, according to documents filed with the Oregon Insurance Division.

So what did Regence do that resulted in its leaders being rewarded so well? If you take a look at the company’s performance last year, it’s hard to find the merit. Not only did the state’s largest insurer lose 32 percent (334,228) of its members, bringing its enrollment down to its lowest level in five years (776,647), Regence’s profit margin barely reached 1 percent. However, the company collected more in premiums than during the previous year.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/opin.....we_us.html

“If the administration costs were reduced to the level of ‘other countries’ (which may have far smaller populations), hospitals only broke even, and CEO pay was reduced to your ‘acceptable’ amount, how much lower would the cost of health care be?”

Would you like to spend roughly 10-30% LESS in health care premiums and get better care for it?? I sure would…

Population has nothing to do with the problem, since the per capita rate of expenditures is high in the USA. Even your buddy Newt is on board with the idea that health administration costs in the USA are waaay out of whack. It’s time to wake up…

“Despite spending more than twice as much as the rest of the industrialized nations ($7,129 per capita), the United States performs poorly in comparison on major health indicators such as life expectancy, infant mortality and immunization rates. Moreover, the other advanced nations provide comprehensive coverage to their entire populations, while the U.S. leaves 45.7 million completely uninsured and millions more inadequately covered.”

“this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars.”

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/sing.....ources.php

“The best way to get better health results is to eat right, exercise and avoid risky behavior, not go down the road of socialized (rationed) medical care.”

Many other countries have health care systems that encourage people to do the very things that you are advocating. Also, if you don’t think that medical care is “rationed” right now in the USA (by both individuals that can’t afford certain types of care or by corporations that make a bigger profit by denying health care coverage to millions), then you really need to open your eyes…

Everything you mention about the inefficiency and waste in the health care industry can also be said about the US's public education system. So, what gives you hope that a governmental-run health care system is going to fare any better than education? We have already mandated that every child is entitled to a somewhat "free" education in this country, and it's been on the whole a bottomless money pit with declining results.

Obama is exactly right when he harps on how inefficient and technology-delinquent the health care industry is. It's pathetic and I hope he doesn't shut up about it until he shames everyone in any capacity in health care to get out of the Dark Ages and modernize. Just getting into the 20th Century would be enormous for health care administration, and dare to ponder the benefit if they make it into the 21st Century sometime in the next few decades. Where I differ with Obama is the thinking that government will somehow do any "better."

NUK, of course you're right, but it doesn't matter what the education rules are, if you don't have: first of all, parents who care and get involved; children who are disciplined and challenged, it just won't git there. And I put the disciplined piece on the parent's plate too. We have too many parents who have either higher priorities than their children's education or are they themselves too ignorant to be effective parents.

NUK, of course you're right, but it doesn't what the education rules are, if you don't have: first of all, parents who care and get involved; children who are disciplined and challenged, it just won't git there. And I put the disciplined piece on the parent's plate too. We have too many parents who have either higher priorities than their children's education or are they themselves too ignorant to be effective parents.

Administration costs are too high. And yes, good money thrown after bad in the education system but for the most part it still does work for the population as a whole. Government is not perfect and needs an overhaul, as well, in areas that are broken. I don't have the answers I just see some of the problems that need to be corrected. The problems this Country has are almost overwhelming...

We don't live in a perfect World, there is no perfect system, so we have to do what is best for the population as a whole. Corporations can look out for themselves and boy do they(that is another story), the Government is or should be there to make sure everything runs smoothly and fairly for the population. Which, I will agree, is not always the case. Our Government(us) also elects, hires, some self serving people that want nothing more than to make themselves wealthy to the detriment of all.

Thanks for the info. But, I'm still curious as to what percentage of the $2.26 trillion the US spends on health care is executive pay. I'm not convinced that it is a "good part of the problem".
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From the PNHP (Physicians for a National Health Program)

This info is from 1999 so I'm sure the costs have gone up 9 years later.
In 1999 U.S. insurers retained $46.9 billion or the $401.2 billion they collected in Premiums.
In the U.S. the average overhead (11.7%) exceeded that of Medicare (3.6%) and Medicaid (6.8%). Over all, public and private insurance totaled $72.0 Billion or 5.9% of the total Healthcare expenditures in the U.S. or $259.00 per Capita.

As a comparison. In Canada, the over all insurance overhead accounted for 1.9% of Canadian health care spending or $47.00 per Capita.

I have not found the breakdown of what these Little Kings(CEO's) receive in the insurance administration costs but that does not surprise me. They don't want us to know. I'm sure if I keep digging the info is there hidden somewhere. Since that info IS hidden we most likely can assume it is way too much as a percentage of the costs. Isn't that how the system works. Keep the real costs hidden from the people actually paying the bills.

Info found at www.pnhp.org
Physicians for a National Health Program

Anyone who has ever had the joys of using US managed health care can quickly understand one gigantic suck-hole of administration money is duplicate paperwork over and over and over. To me, that makes executive compensation pale in comparison and also leads to tremendous inefficiency in delivering health care to the patient, billing/collecting from insurance companies, medical transcription errors, on and on.

The US health care industry has ignored a lot of wake up calls the past few decades to modernize. They tend to focus on modernized equipment for everything except the nuts and bolts of administering health care. The days of assuming that the present course of action is fine for US health care are over because there is a very real threat of the government stepping into the mix which is the last thing the health care industry wants to happen. This is their last wake up call to overhaul their operations or have the government do it for them. Patients think managed care sucks, physicians think it sucks, politicians think it sucks.......I don't know how much clearer it can get that decisive action is needed. The only people who love the present system are lawyers and big pharma.

Everyone is in this mess together, all the way down to Americans who have grown very used to the idea of heading to their DR after every TV commercial promises them a great life if they just take this pill every day. Americans also think preventative health care means going to the DR at every chance instead of trying to avoid the need to go to the DR. If you look at most health insurance, the co-pays for routine DR visits and a lot of prescription drugs are cheap. Why make any changes when you can pay your DR $25 or so and he'll prescribe a magic pill for you that costs another $25 or so during the 15mins he/she spends with you?

Big pharma had better take a closer look at how the tobacco industry has been gradually regulated to the max and realize the same thing can easily happen to them. When you're bombarding people with advertising for prescription drugs that are in a lot of cases habit-forming or even have some addictive properties, you're hardly different from companies peddling nicotine. It's time to regulate yourself a little better or watch the government do it for you in ways you and your shareholders will not like at all. You lost eh moral high ground of "we spend more on R&D than advertising" a while ago.

Thanks for the response.
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makes it too easy to refute their numbers... once you find out that their sources come from Union labor sites or Dem.org.. salon.com... yada yada yada it's pretty easy to argue the issue using logical rational sites.. OH WELL the "debate" continues..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

I haven't seen anything yet.

BTW, conditions on the beach are oh so nice.
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Rich Envy is like a big fat zit perched on your nose.. You can't hide it.. and we all hate it when it pops on us..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

It just warms my heart that you don't mind using your tax $'s to help pay these CEO'S enormous Salaries. I thought all the re pubs were against the bailout of these Company's and their the huge Salary's even though the company's lost Billions.

Tarpbailout

The huge Salaries for these CEO'S create little Kingdoms for the few while leaving a pittance for the peons. Didn't some of our ancestors leave Countries to come here to get away from that kind of oppression?
If this policy continues where only the CEO'S of a company make all the money, we will be left with no middle class. Or, if you will, all the cream of a company is siphoned off, and the only thing left is unappetizing milk.
Rich Envy, I hardly think so, it is all about fairness SL. I'm sorry, maybe you don't know what that is.

One thing is for certain in this family. From now on before we buy shares of any company I will be checking out what that CEO and the boards who appoint these Boy Wonders, will be making. Their policy's on benefits, as in how many shares they give these gifts to Gods, etc. If the salaries are out of line in my book, they can forget it because I know eventually the shareholders will get nothing because all the money is being siphoned off from the top.

We all get Zits SL, some come to fruition and some do not.

just where does it STOP.. I don't know about you, but I do not want some Government Bureaucrat deciding on just what is enough for me.. know what I mean??
It always starts with those that are vilified.. then progresses to others..
Remember this:"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."

It is a slippery slope once we abrogate the rights of others to the Government.. I for one think if you can command a 7 figure salary then GOD BLESS AMERICA..

"When the person who in possession of a government, shall say to a nation, I hold this power in 'contempt' of you, it signifies not on what authority he pretends to say it is..but an aggravation to a person in slavery"..Thomas Paine

"I don't care if your God him/herself you don't deserve that kind of money." We are all the great road of deciding what people deserve. Nevermind that we have nothing more than our gut to tell others how much they should make. The president is leading a class envy warfare against the well-heeled in our society. First it was that TARP companies must have wage controls. Then it became obvious that the TARP companies were threatened to lose their talent so now the mantra has become all publically traded companies. Eventually we will place a wage cap on what people make because it is "unfair" to make more than the average person. We cannot make that kind of money, so of course nobody "deserves" to make it. Has anyone really thought about the unintended consequences of confiscating wealth will be?

We certainly can use some Boards of Directors holding management accountable in companies. But I hope to God that we don't all get to decide what people "deserve", because looking at the leaders that we elect, we "deserve" to rot.

It will be the ultimate solution anyways. It has worked very well historically. Quality and Availibility Goes Up.