An Engineering View of the push for Electric Cars

The Wedge's picture

Many people think that electric cars will help the environment and get us away from fossil fuels. Let's look at it closer:
Electric vehicles are not, "zero emissions" vehicles. They are "displaced emissions" vehicles. For very polluted cities, this can make a lot of sense. It takes a certain amount of energy to take us, our cargo, and our 3000-7500 lb vehicles from here to there, and this has to come from somewhere. On average, 70% of the electricity from your home's outlets is produced by burning some petrochemical or coal (i.e. non-renewable fossil fuel). Since you have to burn the energy-equivalent (BTUs or kWhrs) of fossil fuel at the powerplant, plus ~7% for transmission losses, relative to what you pull from the wall outlet, this works out to a lot of fuel that's consumed. The CO2 & pollution emissions from producing this electrical energy occur at the power plant and not at your car. So, no free lunch, yet again. Also, if you burn lots of coal, like the U.S. and China, you get lots more CO2 from this than you would if you burn a petroleum based liquid or natural gas.

Lets look at a real car in production: The 2-seat Tesla roadster electric car with it's 220 mile range, takes 70 amps for a 3-4 hour recharge at 220 volts (3-phase, that's 21,778 watts), or 15 amps for a 40 hour recharge at 120 volts (that's 1800 watts). If you want to use this car as a commuter, you'd have to pull ~30 amps at 220 volts (3-phase, that's 9,334 watts) to recharge overnight (8 hours). This is a full recharge, so topping off the battery takes less time (or less amps).
Also, note that typical modern home electrical service is 100-200 amps, and it is common for older homes to have 60 amp service, so adding a 70 amp load requires a thorough review (& possible rewiring) of the home's electrical system.
A typical US home uses ~750 kWhrs electricity per month, which works out to an average of 1027 watts used 24 hours/day. So, plugging this car in would increase a typical home's electricity consumption by 2,120% for a quick charge and 175% for the longer recharge. For an 8 hour recharge that works out to 909% household power increase during charging. Any way look at it, recharging an electric vehicle takes 2 to 21 times the average power used by a household - these types of vehicles place a huge load on the electrical grid. Therefore, until we can install more power lines and electrical generation capacity (& spend trillions of dollars doing so), we could get brown-outs as millions of people return from work and plug in their electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles for recharging.

Once again, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

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S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 7:27pm.

It's called the "Law of unintended consequences" Goverment steps in to solve a problem and creates another.... SHOCKING

Nickle Plant where the E-Cars batteries are made

Toyota Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage

THE STUDY

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..Evil

95% of all Americans will not see any Tax Increases


Submitted by MacTheKnife on Fri, 06/05/2009 - 7:33am.

Always attempting to confuse the liberals with the facts.

A pox or your prayer rug and a thousand fleas on your camel my Muslim brother.

S. Lindsey's picture
Submitted by S. Lindsey on Fri, 06/05/2009 - 7:56am.

but the LEFT works really hard at it...

""My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it."- Barack Obama"

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..Evil


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 5:59pm.

and get beyond fossil fuel.

BTW, there is an advantage that an electric motor has over a reciprocating engine. Electric motors on average are above 75% efficient whereas the efficiency of a reciprocating engine is at best 30%. I would be curious to see which device yeilds the best ROI both in $$$ and energy use.
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The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 6:14pm.

That is going to be one leg of energy generation that we need to use more and gain a larger percentage of generating source for the US. It still would mean a massive, massive investment in transmission capability nationwide.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 6:34pm.

but unfortunately we have been stuck on the 20 yard line and need another 80 yards to go. We are still stuck in a Three Mile Island mind set.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 3:55pm.

3 phase power in your house, it's not available.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 4:38pm.

Many places that I have worked had it available. Just trying to stir the pot. You can't do your charging at work.


Submitted by AtHomeGym on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 4:04pm.

You mean Mr. Sparky can't help you?

Submitted by AtHomeGym on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 4:22pm.

Sorry I haven't responded to your post re the Sowell column-I 've been up to Jasper for some quiet time and some of Joe Rueffert's Schnitzel. In the column I mentioned, Sowell was talking about leadership and primarily quoting from the British Statesman Edmund Burke. Specific subject of the column was : Be Wary of How Untested Leaders Use New Power. And I'm sure you can and will rebut it, but you set the stage early by saying that you can probably rebut it without even reading the article. Ever read Sowell's bio? Open-minded folks wouldn't just automatically dismiss his views simply because he may lean on the conservative side . And, judging from prior posts I have read from you, for you to essentially publicly call him an Uncle Tom seems to be out of character for you.

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