Here's what I know from experience: From 1977 to 1983, I lived in Pointe South,S. of Riverdale, with a Jonesboro address.,and then a relatively new subdivision. My Wife and I routinely traveled to Old National to eat,usually at Joe's Pizza or Red Lobster. We left the area in 1983, returning in 1986 (to unincorporated Fayette County). Entirely different experience. No more Joe's, got ignored at Red Lobster. Why? You tell me.

Oh man, you know how certain people on here hate to see crime stats.

What is the matter with you? Why do we have to look at demographic changes and crime stats at the same time?

Why do you throw that out here? Next thing we know you will throw out the stats and demographics for certain areas when they were clean nice and had low crime.

Reminds me of the movie line.. YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH
It does sound particularly poignant here does'nt it?

I will not lower my standards.. So UP YOURS..

GUN CONTROL Link

I thought he only had a son, Malik. I don't know if Malik went to Merritt ( Oakland City College ) like his father or not. Please enlighten.

Did some checking around. Some of the BPP are here in the Atlanta area, Afreni, Tupacs mother, had a beautiful park/youth center dedicated in Tupac's memory. The center is in Stone Mountain. I referred them to this website. Good thing we're all anonymous. Their take on Elvis? Either a wannabe or a representative of the racist 'whites' that they were so adamantly against in the day. (They reminded me that today everyone is more concerned with food on the table and money in the pocket - jobs - not 'color.) The center is open to all children - all colors. (And there are a lot of talented kids in Atlanta!) They felt 'Elvis' must be some kind of 'sicko' to take the time to denigrate the offspring of a dead man. None of them were aware of a 'daughter'. Stick to your rims son, you never know who you're talking to in the Atlanta area.

You called Tupac's mama and asked her to read thecitizen.com to verify if some girl that told me she was Bobby Seale's daughter 25 years ago existed or not?

You ... called ... Tupac's mother and other (original, I'm guessing) BPP members ... and said ... "hey, check out this crap on thecitizen.com", they looked then proffered a unanimous decision that I'm a wannabe black white supremist sicko and then took the time to make comments that happen to perfectly reflect your worldview?

Hehe ... you really are retired, aren't you?

One wonders why they would both remind you that people are more worried about food on the table than your trivial spats and take the time to investigate said spats and offer thoughts. Makes no sense.

And even if that were all true, you've yet to support your assertion that Atlanta's crime went down and education measurements went up in the years since blacks became the majority.

Or, as is commonly said these days: FAIL.

Just some information. Back in the day, the Panthers were certainly not followers of Martin Luther King. They intimidated - through threat of violence. But they are remembered by many for their major thrust of getting food and education into the community. Although my 'friends' are NOT members of the BPP - they are still very much about education and 'food'. (Feeding the heart, soul, and mind of the future citizens of this country.) Eldredge Clever became a staunch supporter of 'conservative' principles. His ex-wife was at the dedication of the youth center. No one considers it trivial when one tries to suggest something that has no basis in fact about someone they admired - and especially when such 'trivial' statements may hurt family members even after more than 20 years. You sir/madam have diarrhea of the mouth. Keep it shut!

Why on Earth would you put friends, food, conservative and trivial in scare quotes?

How is the 8500 block of East 14th these days? It must be blossoming forty years after those Panther seeds of education and food were sewn.

Isn't it a scant few blocks from where four cops were gunned down to the cheers and delight of many East Oaklanders?

What seeds were really sewn?

And even if that were all true, you've yet to support your assertion that Atlanta's crime went down and education measurements went up in the years since blacks became the majority.

This was never my assertion. My statement meant only this: With leadership and education, any group of people who are marginal can improve - color not withstanding. You and Fred are here solely to denigrate blacks and pump up your own sorry egos. Yes I called friends who would know about Bobby Seale - friends at Tupac's Center. Never once said I spoke to Afreni. You are such a loser.

your world view

It's not mine alone sir/madam. Mission accomplished. Racists identified. Have a good life - but stick to what you know.

You run out of ideas and ammo, so the answer is to just tag everyone involved a racist and call it a day.

How long have you been attending the Church of Perpetual Victimhood, DM? All your life?

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a
happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the
other. -- Ronald Reagan

"Cal, this is a little over the top."

"Cal, a little help here?"

"Cal?"

"Caaaaallllll?"

I guess some "victims" squeal louder than others.

"You and Fred are here solely to denigrate blacks and pump up your own sorry egos."

Screw you David's Mom, and stick it where the sun don't shine.

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a
happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the
other. -- Ronald Reagan

Please throttle it back some.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

You are right - I let her get to me and I shouldn't have.

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a
happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the
other. -- Ronald Reagan

why give up now? Your goal was to educate us, and then, 205+ postings into the effort, you throw it all away with this response: "Screw you David's Mom, and stick it where the sun don't shine.". What were you thinking, and how is this going to help your cause? Heck, I bet it would only have taken another 2,000 postings to actually convert (or is it pervert?) someone to your way of thinking.

It's not easy being the carbonunit

"Screw you David's Mom, and stick it where the sun don't shine."

You always know when you hit the nail on the head, don't you?

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!

"It's not mine alone sir/madam. Mission accomplished. Racists identified."

Interesting. This is the first time you have disclosed your mission to identify racists. All other explanations offered for why you post here have been blather about peace, love and understanding.

Now we get to the gritty nitty.

I know municipal and industrial waste, madam. That's no secret. And perhaps in this case -- me arguing with you -- I am sticking to what I know.

I announced my intention to discuss race when I first came here years ago. I was accused of being a 'one issue' participant - and started discussing other issues. When jokers like you show up - you're absolutely right -I will do all I can to expose your ignorant, lying purpose. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

What 'scare quote'?

ATLANTA!! Check latest scores under the supervision of Dr. Beverly Hall, superintendent of Atlanta Public Schools for the last seven years. (And named national Superintendent of the Year) When a city has good leadership - the color of the citizens does not enter into the equation as you suggest. As Atlanta's law enforcement cooperates with other local agencies and the feds, the crime statistics will go down. You're speaking from emotion - and not fact. (Emotion=bias)

Gentrification is helping Atlanta for sure.

When asked to name one city wherein crime has decreased as the black population increased, you answered Atlanta? Was Atlanta's murder rate being 520% higher than the national average what convinced you?

Seriously?

Are you suggesting that graduation rates have improved and crime has declined in the City of Atlanta year-over-year exponentially since 1965 inversely to the increase of blacks over the same time period?

Because that's what you'd have to say to suggest Atlanta's crime had declined and education measurements improved since blacks became a majority.

That's a bold statement.

Please provide data to support it.

You share the data that shows that during seven years of outstanding management and leadership by a black woman in a predominantly black area scores were not raised, graduation rates were not improved, more seniors did not attend college. Then Elvis, while you're doing your research, show me how cities where 'whites' are in the majority with similar educational, social, and finanical status are faring. When you throw a rock into a group of chickens, the one who yells is the one who is hit. Your determination to paint all blacks as marginal is apparent - and in the minority in this conversation. Were you stuck when those of the upward mobile 'class' could leave left?

Here's a reference for 520%: http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime6.aspx

And here's a list of American cities with a black population of 30% or higher. Want me to post a "most dangerous cities" list next? Want I should juxtapose the two?

Detroit, MI 75.7
Atlanta, GA 67.1
Washington, DC 65.8
Birmingham, AL 63.3
New Orleans, LA 61.9
Baltimore, MD 59.2
Newark, NJ 58.5
Richmond, VA 55.2
Memphis, TN 54.8
St. Louis, MO 47.5
Cleveland, OH 46.6
Oakland, CA 43.9
Baton Rouge, LA 43.9
Philadelphia, PA 39.9
Chicago, IL 39.1
Norfolk, VA 39.1
Mobile, AL 38.9
Cincinnati, OH 37.9
Charlotte, NC 31.8
Rochester, NY 31.5

You'll dismiss this as irrelevant - but others may want to revisit this.READ THIS

If you went to school with Bobby Seals daughter- and she was still living with her father, you were living in Oakland. If you are 'white' you must have experienced some of the same bias that blacks experienced in 'white' situations. Sometimes in those situations 'whites' were made to feel inadequate, out of place, SMALL. Just what was your experience Elvis?

Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! You've unmasked me. The blacks made me feel inadequate and SMALL. Especially in the restrooms. My god. You've reduced me to tears. I'm broken. And dancing. Even now I can't watch Dancing With the Stars without ... well, the effect is the same as soaking in cold water. You get the picture. Even tried growing whiteboy dreads, tricked out my Ford Grenada, called myself "brightly skinned" and dropped my Gs -- all to no avail.

I happened upon Godfrey Cambridge's Watermelon Man awhile back and knew my pain must be avenged here on The Citizen.

... Or maybe I'm just unhappy at the realization that with a larger influx of blacks to my beloved adopted home comes more crime.

Nah. I probably have weiner envy like you said.

Cal, can I say weiner?

You should know better than to provide facts and statistics to David's Mom - she blows a fuse every time.

Ask her about something that will make her happy, like "wasn't Michelle Obama's dress just beautiful?"

The government is like a baby's alimentary canal, with a
happy appetite at one end and no responsibility at the
other. -- Ronald Reagan

Michelle's dress. That's cute. Jealous?

OK massa - we blacks is jus terrible and ignorant and should just be carted away by you good white people. Over and out!

Elvis is scorned, someone took the Granada for a joy ride the other night and when he got it back from the impound lot, they had hit him for his rims... Now he cannot roll up to the valet at the club, with them hubcaps, and has to park around back.....BLESS...

Ever heard of Rent-a-Wheel on old 85 in Riverdale?

Plus it gots a tight landau roof yo.

A 1980 Ford Pinto Country Squire staton wagon, brown with simulated wood panel siding, and buckskin plaid Pierre Cardin Interior. all there including the chrome roof rack.. Fuzzy Dice not included...BLESS

Is it a coupe or sedan??? The coupe had that high end opera window in the pillar??? Now thats luxury....BLESS

What a strange extrapolation of a simple question.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I am not responsible for your inability to answer a question.

Here's another tidbit: Your inability to answer my question does not make me a xenophobe. The only person that suggested the link between an increase in blacks and crime related to all blacks was you.

The fact is that any city that has had a large influx of blacks has also had a rise in crime. Period. I didn't speculate on reasons. Shame on you for trying to speak for me.

And just look at you lean on race. Sharecropper's English? Really?

Your ramblings become more and more ... emotional. What was it you wrote earlier about emotion equating to bias? Your bias is showing, ma'am.

Way to show me. Massa.

Yea...I remember when my dad had me listen to the lyrics and tell him what I thought it was about. I was clueless (and also 6). I thought St. James Infirmary was a song about a woman in jail. Jesus is a Capricorn (I was able to figure that one out) is still applicable today, what...30+ years later? Although, we now have a new minority that spans all races, classes and regional areas. For many years I've been involved with it in both my personal and professional life. Ten years ago another teacher, a parent and myself were going to have t-shirts printed that read "Don't Tread on Sped." I guess we're beyond all that now, right? The new problem, as I see it, is too throw lots of money at it and hope that everyone will be happy. Give everyone what they want and they will shut up and go away. It's just another form of oppression because it really doesn't work, but no one can complain because they are getting what they think they want (but not really what they need). Well, I've run my mouth a bit too much and will go back outside to finish pressure washing...Happy Mother's Day!

Try as you may - your colors are showing. I don't ramble. But I must admit, I do get emotional when I realize that there are still miscreants like you around. It's not sharecropper's English - it was a very poor attempt at black dialect. Look up 'juxtapose'. Excuse me if I thought you were suggesting that as a link between an increase in blacks and crime. I think all will see that was in your contribution, not mine. What was your experience in Oakland? Did you really go to school with Bobby Seal's daughter? Inquiring minds want to know. It should make for interesting reading. . .if true.

Ah yes. Oakland. From Earl Warren and a Senate Majority Leader to cheering on copkillers in fifty short years.

Did you know the last general strike in America happened in Oakland?

You might make the claim that blacks were unfairly put out of the wartime shipyard jobs that brought them in the first place -- and you'd be right. But we can't hang our hat on that forever, can we?

Is the nature of your questions an attempt to uncover some smoking gun that represents a bad personal experience that transformed a young Elvis into a xenophobic black hater?

Such an incident never happened.

My life history has nothing to do with the simple fact that blacks moving into cities in large numbers drives up crime.

I went to school with one of Bobby's illegitimate daughters -- or so she and her mother claimed. Might have been untrue.

We've pretty much exhausted this subject. Let's move on:

Can you tell me a race or culture other than blacks that venerate pimps rather than considering them as something on the outskirts of society?

I know, I know. Pimpin' ain't easy.

I agree. I have always said it's the "class" of people not the "color" of people that brings a community down.

I see the same ones are still fighting here. Solved anything yet?

Tug

Tug, I think the mortgage crash may save some areas (while making some worse) The problem started with the "affordable housing" laws put in place by Jimmy Carter..When you start lowering the standards to own homes then you are likely to get folks who can not afford the long term costs. (Then you also got the greedy house flippers as we hit the 21st century) Sorry, but many people are not able to own homes..We had house falling apart in Rivers Edge due to neglect (and considering most of the houses were less than 5 years old) If you can't squeeze 10% for a down payment then you are going to be in big trouble when things need repair..You can not believe that number of folks who tried to use foundations to buy our home with no money down. A real scam where they inflate the purchase price (lovely!) and you the seller "donate" the downpayment amount to the foundation..SICK

. .when looked at throughout the country certainly were colorblind. There were many of all colors who bought homes using this strategy - with no training regarding homeowner budgeting/home maintenance, etc. If one has 'rented' or lived in the projects or a rented trailer for their adult life - they have not been taught or 'had a role model' for home ownership. There are certain lifestyles, dependencies (drug/alcohol) that manifest poor home maintenance characteristics. (For the life of me - I don't understand why people can't pick-up/throw out trash!!) That is a 'class'/'education' issue - which knows no color limitation.

Nope - but it is entertaining and enlightening.