PTC may relax sign rules for businesses

Fri, 03/13/2009 - 3:38pm
By: John Munford

‘Walking’ signs becoming more common

Peachtree City may look at loosening its window signage and banner restrictions in the near future to help businesses struggling during the economy.

The catch, according to City Planner David Rast, is that one of the things citizens liked the most in a recent survey is the city’s restrictions on commercial signage. The matter was discussed at the city council retreat Friday.

Councilwoman Cyndi Plunkett said she didn’t want to see a proliferation of window and banner signs.

“I don’t think that’s the image we want to project,” Plunkett said. “... Once we start allowing that stuff it’s kind of difficult to take it away.”

Logsdon said it might be worthwhile allowing “very limited changes” to the sign ordinance for a specific limited period of time.

The discussion later turned to the increasing number of people and costumed “characters” holding signs along city highways to draw interest for local businesses.

Although such signage is not directly addressed in the city ordinance, persons holding signs or wearing “sandwich board” signs are not allowed to be in the road right of way, said City Manager Bernie McMullen.

“We are getting more calls for that restaurant having an ape standing out by the roadway holding a sign,” Rast said.

Plunkett said she has seen the leprechauns on the side of the road as well, who were apparently advertising the Irish Bred Pub.

Mayor Harold Logsdon said such signs are effective based on comments from a local jewelry store owner whose store was closing. The mayor said the store owner, Bill MacDonald, told him a number of customers who came in at the closing said they had no idea where his store was at The Avenue shopping center.

McMullen said the city had “multiple conversations” with MacDonald because the sign holders would “frequently” stray into the right of way.

Plunkett said she knew that Hilton Head, S.C. had an ordinance regulating handheld signs.

Leisure Services Director Randy Gaddo said one frequent sign complaint he hears is the need for directional signs off local highways to help show out of towners how to get to special events such as sports tournaments.

Rast said the city does allow temporary signs in the right of way, and indicated that the issue with some special events is they want larger signs than allowed by the city. Those rules can be looked at as well.

City Manager Bernie McMullen suggested the city put together a condensed temporary signage guide that Gaddo can give to citizens coordinating special events.

Council also discussed the city’s role in attracting businesses, given the city’s village concept of having retail and office uses set aside for each of the city’s five villages. Though the city controls zoning matters, it cannot control the free market, and one recent worry is about the now-closed “baby Kroger” grocery store in Peachtree Crossings, the retail center serving the Glenloch Village.

Plunkett said she wondered if the city should offer tax incentives for the right kind of developments to locate in Peachtree City, such as trying to get another grocery store to locate in the Glenloch Kroger.

McMullen said his concern would be how the city “decides what’s right for a retail center as opposed to a retail business deciding ‘this is the best return on investment’ for those retail centers.”

Plunkett replied that she didn’t see how it was different than when the city was founded the developer owned the property and could cherry pick what uses it wanted where.

“Maybe we could have a list of what we’d like to have and we will help you if you’re in this category or hurt you if you’re not in this category,” Plunkett said.

Councilman Doug Sturbaum suggested holding a roundtable discussion on the issue with the city’s various authorities.

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Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:08pm.

She seeing leprechauns. Maybe Plunkett and the leprechauns can walk around with sandwich signs advertising the new used clothing store where the baby Kroger used to be.

Top 'O the day to ya!!!

Vote Republican


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Tue, 03/17/2009 - 2:46am.

"Plunkett said she has seen the leprechauns on the side of the road as well..."

THIS, my friends, is how you write a news article!

I'm submitting this entry to the Pulitzer committee.


Shoebox's picture
Submitted by Shoebox on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 6:09pm.

All you people...I needed a good laugh! You are great writers and you are right about the signs!


Submitted by whatthe on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 2:33pm.

Unfortunately the city planner has spilled the beans and advised that public sentiment is against a signage change. This can mean only one thing based on past actions by the city council voting majority.

whoa whoa tragedy.

Submitted by Gilly Walker on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 8:58pm.

Harold- are you and your minion trying to promote your new mall? Oh, and thanks for the Dollar Store.

Submitted by mysteryman on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 10:19pm.

Go to you tube and key in Apollo 440 Man with the Harmonica....A classic....PEACE

Submitted by jeep2 on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 12:00pm.

There is no reason to even consider loosening the sign ordinance for the reasons that have already been posted. I have lived here for 20 years and have seen this town slowly and gradually go down hill; although it is still leaps and bounds better than our surrounding communities. And since the issue of signs has been brought up, can someone tell me how the mattress place on 74 North can have the obnoxious banners hanging in the window? I thought that would fall under the sign ordinance, maybe not. And what about the neon signs in establishments that seem to be popping up everywhere? I thought that fell under some ordinance also. We need to enforce what we have in place and forget easing the restrictions. Pretty soon we will look like Fayeteville/Riverdale with walking billboards and huge signs that are an eyesore.

Gene61's picture
Submitted by Gene61 on Sun, 03/15/2009 - 2:05am.

I find the costumed “characters” signs annoying as hell. Leave the rules along and worry about other things, like finding ways NOT to increase taxes in a slowing economy.

PTC will sooner or later price and tax itself out of the loop..Really, there are more importants thungs to worry about. The PTC Council needs to stop trying to write comedy and do its job. Everyday its some lame idea that would have never been discussed in earlier meetings.


Submitted by Arf on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 6:28pm.

Why are we talking about signs and newspapers in driveways when the town is falling apart. Looser signage laws? Who really wants to live with cardboard garbage posted on street corners and signboards walking up and down the highway? What happened to the original sign laws. Being in business in PTC, I remember when signage had to be a particular size and letter. Kroger was gigged for having a backlit Coca Cola sign that could be seen from the street (no neon and no lighted signs), we had a company banner on a flag pole that had to come down because it was too big and “inappropriate,” McDonald’s had to lower their arches to come into PTC, and you’ve always had to use the special yard sale signs so the community wouldn’t look tacky. I was appalled that the jeweler signs were allowed and that the long-time city resident owner thought that was an okay tactic. Originally, you couldn’t even see most commercial establishments directly from the street because it was required that everything be set back with required landscaping. If anyone wants to do business with a commercial establishment, we will know it’s there or find it.l

“Our town” has already become very tacky as far as commercial business is concerned. On another matter, this council is concerned about newspapers in driveways that are an eyesore. So business can go however tacky and however far they want in PTC, but residents can’t let their papers stack up when they go away for the weekend?

What the hell is going on with this council??? There are a lot more urgent matters to consider – or is it just a matter of what can be controlled?

Submitted by PTCGOIL on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 3:55pm.

Harold, do you stop off for a few hundred mind altering drugs or alcoholic drinks every day? I am so sick of discussions like this taking place...Where are the problems with the existing laws? Is there any part of our City you feel you HAVEN'T screwed up yet? You and Plunkett are like a cancer on all of us here..You two just don't get it...this City was perfectly fine before you came in and desecrated it. LEAVE IT ALONE, TAKE BERNIE WITH YOU TO WHEREVER YOU SCREW YOUR BRAIN(?) IN EVERY MORNING AND STAY AWAY FROM CITY HALL, COUNCIL MEETINGS, PUBLIC EVENTS, AND ANYONE EVEN THINKING OF MOVING HERE. YOU ARE OFFICIALLY TOWN BUFFOONS NOW, NOT THE JOKE KIND, BUT THE ABSOLUTE ASHAMED TO BE SEEN IN PUBLIC KIND. THE ONLY ONES WHO DON'T REALIZE IT ARE YOU.

DarkMadam's picture
Submitted by DarkMadam on Tue, 03/17/2009 - 7:41am.

Nicely put!


matt.barnes's picture
Submitted by matt.barnes on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 2:04pm.

First of all, with everything else that is going on this shouldn't even be a priority.

Second, if we are going to waste time talking about signage; we should be talking about making the signage rules tighter. That way we don't get stuck with more tacky "PTC Jewler going out of business" signs for six month at a time.


Submitted by Mikeyc on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 1:35pm.

Bigger signs will sell more stuff???? Get real.
The PTC administration really thinks that, we, the citizens, are really stupid. Retailers just want it. It's "in your face" advertising.
We all know about the secret contest between Fayetteville, Peachtree City and Newnan to see who has the most concrete. (Runoff tax baby!) It used to be you could hardly see the stores from the road. You just learned where everything was. It was a magnificent and beautiful idea. Today, if a strip of grass is left between the store and the street, THEY BUILD ANOTHER STORE ON IT!!!!
Small minded, self serving, non-visionary jackas.....well, you get the idea.
As an aside. Signage is not a word. Sign or signs work just fine in every instance.

Submitted by Michael P on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 11:38pm.

If you provide good service and good product signs are not needed. If you provide good goods and service, they will come and come again and pass the word. It would be nice to leave something the same in Peachtree City. 29 year resident!

CarDealer's picture
Submitted by CarDealer on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 12:38pm.

Seems we continue to try convince ourselves that PTC is the same pristine community that we enjoyed as little as 10 years ago. Folks, that PTC is gone. WAY GONE! The new signs would just be another step in the certain & deliberate direction we have been going in recent years. Mark these words, there will be a lessening of restrictions on signs in the near future. Just the mention of it will be assumed as a green light to many businesses. Pay attention also to the idea that most of these signs will be in SPANISH!
I'm just say'n...


inquiringminds's picture
Submitted by inquiringminds on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 10:19pm.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Steve Brown's picture
Submitted by Steve Brown on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 7:59pm.

Unbelievable, they are going off the deep end. If you did not think Mayor Logsdon's previous actions showed a complete disregard for our major planning elements, hacking the sign ordinance should seal the deal.

Councilwoman Plunkett’s comments on the “Baby Kroger” site are astounding. She is a lawyer, yet her comments come off as though she has no understanding of the law.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 8:17pm.

"Plunkett said she has seen the leprechauns on the side of the road..." (I also saw several leprechauns once, after too many margarita's)

Munford, that comment was priceless. Thanks for the laugh tonight! Laughing out loud

(btw - aren't there more pressing issues that our city council dweebs could be discussing rather than ape costumes and mystic leprechauns? I'm just sayin'...)


Submitted by Spyglass on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 4:51pm.

Keep them stringent.

ManofGreatLogic's picture
Submitted by ManofGreatLogic on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 4:32pm.

Okay, maybe it's not the worst idea ever, but it's pretty darn close. If anything, the regulations on signs should be tightened, not loosened. There goes Logsdon again, dreaming of money instead of quality of life.

Folks, there are only two things that make PTC what it is: 1. The cart paths. 2. The quality of the landscaping and storefronts (for the most part).

Mrs. Plunkett mentioned Hilton Head Island. Great example, because it's one of the few places in South Carolina where people speak real English, groom themselves before going in public, and the trees are still there. The signs in Hilton Head are all small and carved of wood, including McDonald's. The signs look great.

What do Fayetteville and Newnan have in common? They're ugly towns. Sorry, truth hurts, but they are covered in raggedy stores with rusty signs, broken neon lights, tattered banners (like a used car lot), and trash all over the side of the road.

Peachtree City has already messed up big time with the West Village. The businesses are right up against the road, there are more stoplights than the rest of the city combined (probably), the houses are all on top of each other, and the trees? All destroyed by bulldozers.

Let's get this city back to the way it was. Sure, the West Village is like Newnan, but the rest of the town doesn't have to be.

Let's tighten up and get back to a more conservative way of thinking about our small town.


CarDealer's picture
Submitted by CarDealer on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 2:19pm.

Great sentiments, but PTC has been bought and paid for with our ongoing system of politicians. Fayetteville is just the new Riverdale...Too bad, but their elected officials sold them out years ago. Newnan, on the other hand could still have hope. Also, we are not Hilton Head... Not by a long shot. Their government is run by the people. Just not the case here! So, your statement; "Let's tighten up and get back to a more conservative way of thinking about our small town" is about 10 years too late.
I'm just say'n...


Mike King's picture
Submitted by Mike King on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 4:43pm.

...why should we lower our standards to placate commercial development that is currently out of control. Hilton Head set a specific standard regarding signage and holds it. We could do the same with a bit of fortitude on the part of city leaders instead of the panic mode that is commonplace.


Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:03pm.

There are times I agree with you Mike even if you're a cigar smoking hot head. Smiling

Hey, if you're not careful your buddies Logsdon and Boone are going to attach four newspaper boxes to your mail box pole!!! That'll look mighty pretty big guy.

What if they put the AJC in my Citizen box??? Smiling Can I still read it?

Vote Republican


Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 5:30pm.

I agree, Mike.

Sturbuam's idea of bringing the authorities, etc. together, for input from their perspectives, with the goal in mind of developing better temp sign regulations and generating a guidelines pamphlet is a good way to go.

But loosen the existing standards? No.

I think it is also a good time to deal with the new electronic type signs. Maybe require those for the permitted temp uses versus 'walking signs.'

That would eliminate the issue of wandering onto the right of ways.

The economy and new technology has forced these issues to the forefront, so we have to deal with it.

Collect the thinking locally, review such as Hilton Head and then formulate a long term standard that is compatible with our other sign ordinances, which are not to be messed with in my book.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com


Submitted by PTC Observer on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 8:50pm.

Don,

Walking signs were very popular during the last Great Depression; they didn't help. Outlaw walking signs as a public nusiance, safety issue, or simply visual clutter. Outlaw electronic signs for the same reason(s). Let's not give up our quality of life for a false hope that signage can some how solve our business problems.

Let's all get a grip on reality......please!

PTC Observer

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Mon, 03/16/2009 - 9:50pm.

Did some more research on the issue of walking signs. The information is in the sig line link.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com


Submitted by mysteryman on Fri, 03/13/2009 - 9:14pm.

A local fast food joint, last summer employed a dancing cow to stand at the curb, and wave and bust a move dance to draw a crowd in 100+ degree heat.. Anyhow about two hours into the routine the dancing cow tripped up on the curb and fell foward into traffic, sustaining a broke leg courtesy of a SUV leaving the establishment.... Thats dedication folks, course they are gonna need a lot of folks to hold all those going out of bussiness signs at west village....PEACE

Liferfrom65's picture
Submitted by Liferfrom65 on Sat, 03/14/2009 - 9:43pm.

Nuke the west village into the stone age.


Submitted by leekaytoo on Fri, 04/10/2009 - 3:22pm.

Yeah we should do that.

______________
bodybuilding

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Fri, 04/10/2009 - 3:30pm.

Linkspam much here?


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