PTC may get 1st traffic camera

Tue, 01/27/2009 - 4:49pm
By: John Munford

Council to vote on traffic light Feb. 5

A proposed new traffic light for Ga. Highway 54 West will come with a video camera that can zoom in either direction with the feed going straight to the area Georgia Department of Transportation office in Thomaston.

Harry Graham, a consultant for Capital City Development, unveiled that plan Friday night at a special meeting of the Peachtree City Council. Graham also took many questions from residents in Planterra Ridge and Cardiff Park subdivisions who live near the light, which is being proposed to serve a 175,000-square-foot shopping center at Line Creek Drive.

The City Council is slated to vote at its Feb. 5 meeting whether to apply for the traffic light. There is some disagreement on council as to whether the city is required to do so because a development agreement for the shopping center states only that the city agrees not to oppose the developer seeking a traffic light.

Many of the residents at Friday’s meeting were worried the new light will add to the area’s traffic woes, which are evident during congestion during morning and evening commute times.

Graham agreed that traffic in the area is “bad” and said the DOT can do much to improve the timing of the lights to make traffic on the highway flow smoother. But the city has to ask DOT to do the work, he added, and that includes making sure all of the road sensors are working to detect vehicles.

Councilwoman Cyndi Plunkett noted that it will also cost the city to have the DOT re-time the lights.

“The DOT charges and it’s a substantial amount,” Plunkett said, adding that she wants DOT to look at all the Hwy. 54 lights including those on the east side heading toward Fayetteville because that signal timing is also problematic, she said.

Graham said the CCD traffic study was conducted during the evening hours when traffic was at its worst. The data shows that even if the shopping center and traffic light aren’t built, traffic will still worsen on Hwy. 54. With the shopping center and light, traffic won’t be as bad, according to the data, Graham said.

For cars on Planterra Way trying to turn onto or cross Hwy. 54, there is currently a 62.4-second delay, Graham said. If the shopping center and traffic light are built the delay will extend to 72.9 seconds, compared with 88.3 seconds if the shopping center and traffic light aren’t built, Graham said.

The DOT has previously twice turned down Capital City Development’s application for the light at Line Creek Drive because it would be too close to the existing lights at Planterra Way and MacDuff Parkway.

One Planterra resident said he was concerned about traffic for the shopping center cutting through the subdivision. Mayor Harold Logsdon said there was no way to know for sure but he noted the speed bumps along Planterra that are designed to deter cut-through traffic.

Logsdon said his concern was getting the shopping center approved so it could get the best retail stores possible considering it was competing with a large-scale retail project just over the county line in Coweta County.

“I want Coweta citizens to shop here in Peachtree City,” Logsdon said.

Councilman Don Haddix rejected the idea that Coweta residents would shop here.

“Why would they drive all the way over here?” Haddix asked.

To which Logsdon replied sarcastically: “Thank you for pointing out that I’m stupid. I appreciated that. That’s very kind of you.”

Haddix has previously announced that he intends to run for mayor. Logsdon said last week he is not sure if he will run again.

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yellowjax1212's picture
Submitted by yellowjax1212 on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 7:27pm.

I've got it!!!!!!!!!!
The solution to all of our budget problems in PTC.
Harold Logsdon and Don Haddix on Pay-Per-View TV, "Winner Takes All" and becomes the next Mayor of PTC. Hey, this would also save us some money by avoiding the costs of the next election. Of course we do still have a couple of council seats up for grabs. Maybe we could get them on the card also. Hold the matches at the Fred and charge $25 per ticket (helps the Fred's bottom line also)so a limited number of people could watch live.
Come to think of it, this could be Dar's chance to actually will an election.


DarkMadam's picture
Submitted by DarkMadam on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 7:57pm.

That is the kind of innovative thinking that this city needs. Let’s think outside the box. I would pay twice that to see them all pummel each other!

Hey yellow! I have asked that this budget issue be an open topic of discussion at the meeting on Thursday Feb. 05, 2008. I would love for you to be there. Who knows you might get your monies worth!


Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:02pm.

Hello, McFly, they (Coweta Residents) are shopping here NOW. Like I said below, the area is very accessible to Coweta, I see Coweta tags all the time in the Centers in that part of PTC, and I'm grateful for it.

I realize he wants to be Mayor, but being an instigator isn't in the job description is it?

Submitted by R. Butler on Thu, 01/29/2009 - 6:51pm.

Spyglass- Your comment: "I agree, we are about retailed out, but you can't do much about properly zoned property, especially property that has been zoned for years. I hope you realize that. We can hold them to our standards, but not much else."

Are you kidding me?

I would remind you that CCD has long since moved past the original zoning and setback restrictions by engineering the purchase of city-owned streets. Had the Mayor and City Council insisted that CCD develop the property within the limits of the zoning and setback ordinances as CCD knew them when they purchased the land, this discussion would be moot. This has never been an issue of the right of the property owner to fairly develop the land--it has always been about CCD being granted unreasonable concessions to maximize their profit to the the detriment of the remainder of the city.

I trust you recall that bit of history given your views on the sale of the streets in question last year.

By the way, can someone explain this to me...if the solution to the Hwy 54 West traffic mess could simply be solved by synchronizing lights, how come this hasn't been done yet? One would think that the GDOT people might have already undertaken that when they finished installing the four new traffic lights.

So I am guessing it isn't quite that simple for a fifth light either.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:15pm.

Look below as well for an answer.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com


Submitted by TomCat on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 12:38pm.

Well, shutmymouth, the mayor has finally made an utterance we can all agree with, "...“Thank you for pointing out that I’m stupid. I appreciated that. That’s very kind of you.” By the way Mr. Mayor, a growing number of us have already figured this out and are looking forward to the chance to correct earlier mistakes.

"The Cat is loose...."

cowtipn's picture
Submitted by cowtipn on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 10:07am.

If PTC wants Coweta residents' money, we should have things that they don't. Starship?


Stinger's picture
Submitted by Stinger on Tue, 01/27/2009 - 11:55pm.

This article would have you believe that regardless of whether or not the shopping center goes in, traffic will get worse if we don't install the traffic light. This is based on the following quotes: "even if the shopping center and traffic light aren’t built, traffic will still worsen on Hwy. 54." and " compared with 88.3 seconds if the shopping center and traffic light aren’t built, Graham said." Based on information presented at previous city council meetings, that is not exactly true...or at least, that is not what the traffic studies show.

The two cases presented at the city council meetings were shopping center with light and shopping center without light. There were also a couple of derivatives showing level of service for right in/right out and and having an entrance to the shopping center on Planterra rather than 54. There were no cases considered where the shopping center was not built.

Even with a second attempt at a more detailed traffic study, the impact of this traffic light being added is only considered for a very limited area of the 54W corridor, excluding the intersections at the Avenue and 54/74. It focuses mainly on traffic waiting to turn onto 54 rather than traffic that is already stuck on 54.

Finally, the traffic expert at the last city council conceded that no matter what you do to re-synchronize the lights, there will be a trade-off. So by changing the timing of the lights you are shifting the wait times, not eliminating them. It is difficult not sound cynical about this, but I strongly believe that this traffic study does not tell the whole story. Rather it includes only a limited set of data which, in my opinion, is very misleading.


Submitted by h2otom on Tue, 01/27/2009 - 7:20pm.

The DOT has previously twice turned down Capital City Development’s application for the light at Line Creek Drive because it would be too close to the existing lights at Planterra Way and MacDuff Parkway, What part of this statement do you fools running this town not understand,,,wake up and do your job,,,the right way,,,not your way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Submitted by skyspy on Tue, 01/27/2009 - 7:18pm.

to shop. Have you seen the stores that they have in Ashley Park? Helloooooo.....day late and millions of dollars short.

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 12:23pm.

In the Avenue or Walmart/HomeDepot parking lots. You will see a plethora of Coweta Tags. In many cases it's easier to get to these stores from Coweta than fight the 5 miles of constant traffic to get across interstate 85.

One more thing, how much of a hissy fit would PTC residents have pitched if Dillards had proposed to build that big NICE store here. The mind wanders. But Walmart/Target/Kmart/HomeDepot were/are obviously fine with our earlier administrations.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:09pm.

A lot of those tags are workers, not shoppers.

Add in the Fishers Crossing development and say goodbye to shoppers coming here. A lot easier to go there than either PTC or Newnan for residents off of 54 in Coweta.

Walmart workers have been put on half time. A friend who was a 40 hour employee (living in Newnan) is now at 20 hours, in example.

Dillards is in bankruptcy. Word out in the business community is they are going to close the Newnan store. So, it would have been a dark box here.

Coweta has an over 30% vacancy rate.

You must not have lived here when Walmart and Target were built. They were forced in by legal actions and were why the Big Box ordinance was created, which the last Council altered by adding the Special Use Permit.

The only stores I know of coming to the The Shoppes is one new liquor store, maybe, and two relocation stores not doing well in Braelinn.

McMurrain's RAM properties, across from his proposed development, have about a 25% vacancy rate.

There is no additional disposable income to increase spending in PTC. The only thing that happens is market share redistribution. Then reduce it more when Fischers Crossing is finished.

Not forgetting the new Wilshire shopping center, disposable income is getting spread thinner and thinner. How many stores will that kill?

Other stores in the Target Center have said they are closing as well.

Projections now are that it will take at least ten years to fill vacant retail, nationally. Plus retail space is already double what it should be per the National Retail group.

PTC seriously does not need more retail built.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com


DarkMadam's picture
Submitted by DarkMadam on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 7:34pm.

I know many people that "work" in PTC. Where do you think that they stop to do their shopping? Peachtree City! Being economically minded a person pinching pennies will stop at the PTC Wal-Mart, and Home Depot, as well as other places to shop on their way home. Think about it. It is on the same side of the road (no waiting at red lights for left turns). Not to mention that the stores themselves are nicer. Yes The Home Depot is smaller (due to PTC's size constraints) but the merchandise is of a higher quality on things like lighting, flooring, and kitchen Design. They have worked hard to hire quality individuals that can handle the raised expectations of PTC residents. Newnan and Coweta County residents don't share those expectations due to the per-capita income. (Yes, I have worked at both stores in the past). There are many reason to shop in PTC over Newnan, but you never thought about those did you? Wife does all the shopping? Want to know the facts about where to shop and when, ask a woman!

By the way, talking about the budget and cut and balances. Would you be interested in explaining why anyone should enter a discussion on finances with you? You are on a council that is cutting 23 people with as immediate addition of 3 more from the building department to be cut due to budget cuts and yourself and 3 other members are receiving a pay increase in the 2010 budget of $6000 each. IN EFFECT DOUBLING YOUR YEARLY PAY! The Mayor himself will receive a $9000 raise DOUBLING HIS PAY! This is $33,000 that can be cut immediately from that budget as misappropriation of funds in light of the crisis. Hmmmm lets discuss this!


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:34pm.

Also I have a few questions for you regarding retail space.

I read somewhere that when cities are trying to determine how much retail space to allow that they figure it based on 20sq. ft per resident is that true? I was told that the standard was 20sq. ft.

I read that the city of Atlanta has 50sq ft. of retail space per resident and that the large no. of sq.ft, has been blamed for buisness failures. I don't know if that is true or not. Also I have heard that Fayette County has 60sq ft. of retail space per resident is that true?

No wonder so many buisnesses are struggling here if we are in fact over loaded with retail space.

I am asking you because you seem to have done some research on this topic. How much of what I have heard is misinformation?

What is the ideal amount of sq ft per residents? Ideal meaning they can all be supported by the number of residents a community has.

Don Haddix's picture
Submitted by Don Haddix on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 3:08pm.

DAPC just had a researcher from GT here Monday. I have also talked with multiple researchers multiple times from UGA and other organizations.

Atlanta is one of the worst areas in the country for excessive retail and housing space and is now paying for it.

Fayette does have a very high retail component. Coweta and Clayton have more than us are among the highest vacancy rates. Coweta is over 30% and growing.

Our footage is not sustainable.

National average is a little over 20 sq' for the US, 10.1 for Cananda and other countries are below us as well. We are among the highest in the world.

National Retailers say our retail should actually be in the 10.X range. That we have twice as much retail space as we can actually use.

Also mentioned is the profit per sq' has been falling in the US for many years. But the retailers answer was to build more, increase the marginal profits. Didn't and does not work.

Also, the highest profit resides with small local owned stores, not Big Boxes or Malls, all of which are failing in droves nation wide and are successfully being converted to mixed use developments, resembling our Village Plan (we have been ahead of our times and the efforts to move away from that when the rest of the nation is moving to it is something I have been fighting).

If there is X bucks of disposable income in a community, and stores require Y bucks to be viable, building more stores doesn't create more X bucks, it increases the competition to get to the Y bucks required. That creates marginal businesses and failed business, none of which well serves a community when the numbers increase past a healthy number for competition and into a survival struggle for each business.

Projections are it will take a minimum of 10 to 12 years, if the economy begins turning around soon to just consume the space already in existence. But other projections see no horizon for a return to explosive retail growth and McMansions, meaning 500,000 and above sq'.

That is born out with 65 and older now being the top bankruptcy demographic with the younger demographics not having access to wealth accumulation like they did.

Bottom line focus is we need jobs here, in PTC, that enable people to work and live here. Those are health, tech and similar research and service type jobs. We just do not have the logistics for serious manufacturing.

Doug Sturbaum and I both have long backgrounds in business, really the only two on Council. We have lived business. Both our backgrounds and research arrive at the same results and conclusions, so it is not just my opinion alone on these things.

As to why there is a repeat in business type, Fayette simply does not have the demographics to support others. Others have been tried and failed. It takes a lot of people in the right demographics, more than many realize, to drive a market.

Plus a decreasing number of household are projected to want or have children in them. That is born out about the negative growth in the Fayette school age demographic.

Hope that helps to understand where I am coming from on these issues.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 4:59pm.

The build it and they will come mentality has been a failure.

I understand why we don't have special or high end stores like Frontgate, it is just frustrating. How many dollar stores, mexican restaurants, and nail places could we really need or use? It just seems like if every store sold a different specialty product, or the restaurants had a different theme or type of food, they would do better.

Thanks again.

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:44pm.

showed an average of 20.2 square feet/person in the US. For a reference point, the average in the UK is 2.5 square feet/person. Note that these are not any type of "ideal numbers", they are factual.

I have not seen numbers for Atlanta, but they would be skewed higher due to the large amount of daily commuters who utilize the retail during the day.

diablo_ogre's picture
Submitted by diablo_ogre on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 5:04pm.

most places in UK have many more small shops then we have because they have a better "foot traffic" community. That means people can pretty much walk to any place the need in there neighborhood for a pint or a loaf of milk. Here you have to drive everywhere to a super store. Even if you wanted to walk you can't because there are no side walks connecting anything together. Of course I think we would all be better riding scooters for our daily errands instead of driving massive SUV's. do you really need to buy all your groceries for a week at one time?


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 2:53pm.

I was just wondering how much we have in all of Fayette County. If we have too much it explains why some are struggling. It might be more than just our current economy.

Also I think part of the problem is, many of the stores all seem to be the same. If they were all different concepts: like Tommy Bahama, and Frontgate etc. They would carry merchandise we could only get at their stores. How many dollar stores do we really need?

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 3:48pm.

Mainly due to our position in the Atlanta area, and the demographics of the County over the last 10 years. I'll try and get some hard numbers for comparison. Latest numbers I found were almost 2 years old. In 2007, Fayette was 2nd in the Metro Area with 65.4 sq.ft/person, Coweta was higher at 67.3 sq.ft/person. In vacancy rates at that time, Fayette was again 2nd at around 5.5% vacancy rate, Coweta was the best with around 3.5%. A LOT of retail has been added to Coweta since that time. And a lot has changed in the economy since that time. For reference, most of the Metro Area was at 8%+ on vacancy rates from the same time frame, with many being over 10%. These figures were assembled in March 08, so as you can see, there is a delay in getting them out.

I agree about choices of stores, but we are lacking in the density that most of these stores look for. It's a catch 22. I prefer the density we have now, but we won't get certain stores because of it.

We all want the best for the area, and I don't think just saying "NO" to everything is the way to get it. Many of the stores we are talking about now have been on the drawing boards for years. I'm sure developers will think long and hard in the coming few years before they start building more bricks and mortar.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 5:22pm.

Wow, 65sqft. That seems like a lot.

With the downturn in the economy no wonder stores are struggling. I support only the small buisness owners as much as I can. My favorites are Wags to Whiskers, Latitude33, The Wild Bird Center, Gilroys, Peachtree Imports, Autrey's and Katie's. I hope they all stay.

Have a good day

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 1:16pm.

You think, or at least talk like it on here, that NO ONE is coming from Coweta to shop here. That's just wrong. Spouting off to that point in a Council is not how I want my City ran.

I realize why Home Depot and Walmart are here, and I don't care for Walmart at all, but fact is, a lot of Coweta County folks shop there. You ignoring that shows me a lot.

You apparently don't have a CLUE as how vacancy rates are figured. If you think the development across the street is 25% empty, it's not even close, and no, counting store fronts is not how it is done. If you're going to speak of vacancy rates, at least find out how to figure them. Anyone aspiring to be Mayor should know that. Now if that area loses a Big Box, it might be closer to your figure, ie Best Buy, The Pet Store, Office Supply Store etc.

I agree, we are about retailed out, but you can't do much about properly zoned property, especially property that has been zoned for years. I hope you realize that. We can hold them to our standards, but not much else.
.

Submitted by mthom5436 on Tue, 01/27/2009 - 6:58pm.

We have plenty of commercial real estate. Just because you build more doesn't mean businesses will come or that Coweta citizens will want to shop here. At this point Logsdon needs to go sit in a corner do nothing and wait for a qualified person to take over.

Submitted by ptcmom678 on Tue, 01/27/2009 - 6:28pm.

Call me ignorant, but I can't quite tell from the article, and would like to avoid any tickets in the area. Logsdon, even if you're not running again, it's really tacky to act so childishly in public, and potentially politically suicidal to do it in front of the press.

Submitted by Spyglass on Wed, 01/28/2009 - 12:24pm.

No mention of a red light enforcement anywhere in the article. I'm sure the camera will be a part of the DOT Navigator site.

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