That is the kind of innovative thinking that this city needs. Let’s think outside the box. I would pay twice that to see them all pummel each other!

Hey yellow! I have asked that this budget issue be an open topic of discussion at the meeting on Thursday Feb. 05, 2008. I would love for you to be there. Who knows you might get your monies worth!

Spyglass- Your comment: "I agree, we are about retailed out, but you can't do much about properly zoned property, especially property that has been zoned for years. I hope you realize that. We can hold them to our standards, but not much else."

Are you kidding me?

I would remind you that CCD has long since moved past the original zoning and setback restrictions by engineering the purchase of city-owned streets. Had the Mayor and City Council insisted that CCD develop the property within the limits of the zoning and setback ordinances as CCD knew them when they purchased the land, this discussion would be moot. This has never been an issue of the right of the property owner to fairly develop the land--it has always been about CCD being granted unreasonable concessions to maximize their profit to the the detriment of the remainder of the city.

I trust you recall that bit of history given your views on the sale of the streets in question last year.

By the way, can someone explain this to me...if the solution to the Hwy 54 West traffic mess could simply be solved by synchronizing lights, how come this hasn't been done yet? One would think that the GDOT people might have already undertaken that when they finished installing the four new traffic lights.

So I am guessing it isn't quite that simple for a fifth light either.

Look below as well for an answer.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

In the Avenue or Walmart/HomeDepot parking lots. You will see a plethora of Coweta Tags. In many cases it's easier to get to these stores from Coweta than fight the 5 miles of constant traffic to get across interstate 85.

One more thing, how much of a hissy fit would PTC residents have pitched if Dillards had proposed to build that big NICE store here. The mind wanders. But Walmart/Target/Kmart/HomeDepot were/are obviously fine with our earlier administrations.

A lot of those tags are workers, not shoppers.

Add in the Fishers Crossing development and say goodbye to shoppers coming here. A lot easier to go there than either PTC or Newnan for residents off of 54 in Coweta.

Walmart workers have been put on half time. A friend who was a 40 hour employee (living in Newnan) is now at 20 hours, in example.

Dillards is in bankruptcy. Word out in the business community is they are going to close the Newnan store. So, it would have been a dark box here.

Coweta has an over 30% vacancy rate.

You must not have lived here when Walmart and Target were built. They were forced in by legal actions and were why the Big Box ordinance was created, which the last Council altered by adding the Special Use Permit.

The only stores I know of coming to the The Shoppes is one new liquor store, maybe, and two relocation stores not doing well in Braelinn.

McMurrain's RAM properties, across from his proposed development, have about a 25% vacancy rate.

There is no additional disposable income to increase spending in PTC. The only thing that happens is market share redistribution. Then reduce it more when Fischers Crossing is finished.

Not forgetting the new Wilshire shopping center, disposable income is getting spread thinner and thinner. How many stores will that kill?

Other stores in the Target Center have said they are closing as well.

Projections now are that it will take at least ten years to fill vacant retail, nationally. Plus retail space is already double what it should be per the National Retail group.

PTC seriously does not need more retail built.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

I know many people that "work" in PTC. Where do you think that they stop to do their shopping? Peachtree City! Being economically minded a person pinching pennies will stop at the PTC Wal-Mart, and Home Depot, as well as other places to shop on their way home. Think about it. It is on the same side of the road (no waiting at red lights for left turns). Not to mention that the stores themselves are nicer. Yes The Home Depot is smaller (due to PTC's size constraints) but the merchandise is of a higher quality on things like lighting, flooring, and kitchen Design. They have worked hard to hire quality individuals that can handle the raised expectations of PTC residents. Newnan and Coweta County residents don't share those expectations due to the per-capita income. (Yes, I have worked at both stores in the past). There are many reason to shop in PTC over Newnan, but you never thought about those did you? Wife does all the shopping? Want to know the facts about where to shop and when, ask a woman!

By the way, talking about the budget and cut and balances. Would you be interested in explaining why anyone should enter a discussion on finances with you? You are on a council that is cutting 23 people with as immediate addition of 3 more from the building department to be cut due to budget cuts and yourself and 3 other members are receiving a pay increase in the 2010 budget of $6000 each. IN EFFECT DOUBLING YOUR YEARLY PAY! The Mayor himself will receive a $9000 raise DOUBLING HIS PAY! This is $33,000 that can be cut immediately from that budget as misappropriation of funds in light of the crisis. Hmmmm lets discuss this!

Also I have a few questions for you regarding retail space.

I read somewhere that when cities are trying to determine how much retail space to allow that they figure it based on 20sq. ft per resident is that true? I was told that the standard was 20sq. ft.

I read that the city of Atlanta has 50sq ft. of retail space per resident and that the large no. of sq.ft, has been blamed for buisness failures. I don't know if that is true or not. Also I have heard that Fayette County has 60sq ft. of retail space per resident is that true?

No wonder so many buisnesses are struggling here if we are in fact over loaded with retail space.

I am asking you because you seem to have done some research on this topic. How much of what I have heard is misinformation?

What is the ideal amount of sq ft per residents? Ideal meaning they can all be supported by the number of residents a community has.

DAPC just had a researcher from GT here Monday. I have also talked with multiple researchers multiple times from UGA and other organizations.

Atlanta is one of the worst areas in the country for excessive retail and housing space and is now paying for it.

Fayette does have a very high retail component. Coweta and Clayton have more than us are among the highest vacancy rates. Coweta is over 30% and growing.

Our footage is not sustainable.

National average is a little over 20 sq' for the US, 10.1 for Cananda and other countries are below us as well. We are among the highest in the world.

National Retailers say our retail should actually be in the 10.X range. That we have twice as much retail space as we can actually use.

Also mentioned is the profit per sq' has been falling in the US for many years. But the retailers answer was to build more, increase the marginal profits. Didn't and does not work.

Also, the highest profit resides with small local owned stores, not Big Boxes or Malls, all of which are failing in droves nation wide and are successfully being converted to mixed use developments, resembling our Village Plan (we have been ahead of our times and the efforts to move away from that when the rest of the nation is moving to it is something I have been fighting).

If there is X bucks of disposable income in a community, and stores require Y bucks to be viable, building more stores doesn't create more X bucks, it increases the competition to get to the Y bucks required. That creates marginal businesses and failed business, none of which well serves a community when the numbers increase past a healthy number for competition and into a survival struggle for each business.

Projections are it will take a minimum of 10 to 12 years, if the economy begins turning around soon to just consume the space already in existence. But other projections see no horizon for a return to explosive retail growth and McMansions, meaning 500,000 and above sq'.

That is born out with 65 and older now being the top bankruptcy demographic with the younger demographics not having access to wealth accumulation like they did.

Bottom line focus is we need jobs here, in PTC, that enable people to work and live here. Those are health, tech and similar research and service type jobs. We just do not have the logistics for serious manufacturing.

Doug Sturbaum and I both have long backgrounds in business, really the only two on Council. We have lived business. Both our backgrounds and research arrive at the same results and conclusions, so it is not just my opinion alone on these things.

As to why there is a repeat in business type, Fayette simply does not have the demographics to support others. Others have been tried and failed. It takes a lot of people in the right demographics, more than many realize, to drive a market.

Plus a decreasing number of household are projected to want or have children in them. That is born out about the negative growth in the Fayette school age demographic.

Hope that helps to understand where I am coming from on these issues.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

The build it and they will come mentality has been a failure.

I understand why we don't have special or high end stores like Frontgate, it is just frustrating. How many dollar stores, mexican restaurants, and nail places could we really need or use? It just seems like if every store sold a different specialty product, or the restaurants had a different theme or type of food, they would do better.

Thanks again.

showed an average of 20.2 square feet/person in the US. For a reference point, the average in the UK is 2.5 square feet/person. Note that these are not any type of "ideal numbers", they are factual.

I have not seen numbers for Atlanta, but they would be skewed higher due to the large amount of daily commuters who utilize the retail during the day.

most places in UK have many more small shops then we have because they have a better "foot traffic" community. That means people can pretty much walk to any place the need in there neighborhood for a pint or a loaf of milk. Here you have to drive everywhere to a super store. Even if you wanted to walk you can't because there are no side walks connecting anything together. Of course I think we would all be better riding scooters for our daily errands instead of driving massive SUV's. do you really need to buy all your groceries for a week at one time?

I was just wondering how much we have in all of Fayette County. If we have too much it explains why some are struggling. It might be more than just our current economy.

Also I think part of the problem is, many of the stores all seem to be the same. If they were all different concepts: like Tommy Bahama, and Frontgate etc. They would carry merchandise we could only get at their stores. How many dollar stores do we really need?

Mainly due to our position in the Atlanta area, and the demographics of the County over the last 10 years. I'll try and get some hard numbers for comparison. Latest numbers I found were almost 2 years old. In 2007, Fayette was 2nd in the Metro Area with 65.4 sq.ft/person, Coweta was higher at 67.3 sq.ft/person. In vacancy rates at that time, Fayette was again 2nd at around 5.5% vacancy rate, Coweta was the best with around 3.5%. A LOT of retail has been added to Coweta since that time. And a lot has changed in the economy since that time. For reference, most of the Metro Area was at 8%+ on vacancy rates from the same time frame, with many being over 10%. These figures were assembled in March 08, so as you can see, there is a delay in getting them out.

I agree about choices of stores, but we are lacking in the density that most of these stores look for. It's a catch 22. I prefer the density we have now, but we won't get certain stores because of it.

We all want the best for the area, and I don't think just saying "NO" to everything is the way to get it. Many of the stores we are talking about now have been on the drawing boards for years. I'm sure developers will think long and hard in the coming few years before they start building more bricks and mortar.

Wow, 65sqft. That seems like a lot.

With the downturn in the economy no wonder stores are struggling. I support only the small buisness owners as much as I can. My favorites are Wags to Whiskers, Latitude33, The Wild Bird Center, Gilroys, Peachtree Imports, Autrey's and Katie's. I hope they all stay.

Have a good day

You think, or at least talk like it on here, that NO ONE is coming from Coweta to shop here. That's just wrong. Spouting off to that point in a Council is not how I want my City ran.

I realize why Home Depot and Walmart are here, and I don't care for Walmart at all, but fact is, a lot of Coweta County folks shop there. You ignoring that shows me a lot.

You apparently don't have a CLUE as how vacancy rates are figured. If you think the development across the street is 25% empty, it's not even close, and no, counting store fronts is not how it is done. If you're going to speak of vacancy rates, at least find out how to figure them. Anyone aspiring to be Mayor should know that. Now if that area loses a Big Box, it might be closer to your figure, ie Best Buy, The Pet Store, Office Supply Store etc.

I agree, we are about retailed out, but you can't do much about properly zoned property, especially property that has been zoned for years. I hope you realize that. We can hold them to our standards, but not much else.
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No mention of a red light enforcement anywhere in the article. I'm sure the camera will be a part of the DOT Navigator site.