Obama's Plan regarding an Israeli and Palestinian solution

Sat, 11/15/2008 - 10:52pm
By: Cyclist

The Sunday Times

Well, let see how this is going to be received. This is right out of President Carter's book.

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Submitted by mysteryman on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 5:47pm.

Just good bussiness...PEACE

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 05/05/2009 - 5:18pm.

In a speech to the AIPAC, VP Biden stated the Obama administration expected Israeli not to build new settlements. In response, Israel President Peres basically stated that Israel cannot stop natural growth and that settlements are going to continue.

Now, I'm not taking sides on this issue but, I'm curious as to what are some views over this development.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 6:51pm.

Trying to make a little political statement.


The only thing is, the Dinghy's captain ignored the current Notice to Mariners announcement issued by the Israeli Navy.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Submitted by dollaradayandno... on Wed, 12/31/2008 - 9:14am.

Let's leave Cynthia alone.
She doesn't like Jews very much and apparently is providing humane services!
If there was NO DISSENT in the world, where would we be?

Acey1's picture
Submitted by Acey1 on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 9:11pm.

Maybe she'll stay a while. A long while. She's completely useless.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 12/29/2008 - 8:17pm.

how President elect Obama will handle that political "hot potato" called Gaza.
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Tue, 12/02/2008 - 9:41am.

I do not see this situation improving because it is a confluence of religion, politics, envy and tribalism. To quote a famous, but fictional, passage:

"When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movement becomes headlong - faster and faster and faster. they put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget that a precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late."

Submitted by dietcook on Sun, 11/30/2008 - 12:50pm.

big event
diet recipe

Submitted by Davids mom on Sat, 11/29/2008 - 1:50pm.

This is going to be a tremendous challenge. It appears that the 'leaders' are in somewhat of an agreement. The problem is the radical element in the Middle East - both Jew and Arab. When the Arab world rejects wholeheartedly the element that is murdering fellow Arabs - then maybe some progress can be made. There are so many different issues involved - and previous leaders have tried to 'lump' the Arab world together as one 'thought'. Maybe our intelligence agencies and diplomats of today have a different and more realistic outlook as to the problems in the Middle East - and hopefully we're on our way to a realistic solution. At least diverse groups are listening.

Submitted by mysteryman on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 10:36pm.

You know it takes a certain kind of people with a certain kind of moxy, to live in a society where artillery and rockets are constantly volleyed and salvo blindly, into civilian areas with no types of modern guidence system, or designated target. Two wrongs do not make a right. This area has been in conflict with itself since the dawn of time. For us to even think that we can or could have any influence in this region is sheer madness at best. Do we not have enough forces deployed throughout the world as policemen and women, to even think of becoming entangled in this. If the people choose to live under these conditions they do so at will, and are free to leave at any time. The only ceasefire that will ever take hold in this region would occur, in a flash, as it is turned into a glass lined salad bowl for the next 300 years. While i do not condone this. We have sacrificed enough of our sons and daughters, with no quarter during the last 85 years, trying to be policeman to the world, bring em home we have enough problems to conquer here before its too late...GOD BLESS...

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 12/31/2008 - 12:29am.

but could race bater Cynthia Mckinney stay and hold up a light to give the missile something to lock onto?

Submitted by mysteryman on Wed, 12/31/2008 - 6:36am.

Absoultely by all means, alas could Mckinney have found her true calling, its about time she found a way to serve mankind. And just think it would not cost the taxpayers anything at all, since im going to donate the flashlight and red lazer. Cynthia Mckinney martyr, nice, LOL.....GOD BLESS.

Fred Garvin's picture
Submitted by Fred Garvin on Mon, 12/29/2008 - 10:50pm.

"The problem is the radical element in the Middle East - both Jew and Arab."

Wrong again David's Mom, the problem is the terrorist group Hamas keeps launching missles blindly into Israel after agreeing to a cease fire. Jews have every right to defend their country and people.

Hamas and the U.N is run by a bunch of anti-semetic cowards who resort to suicide bombing if Israelis don't give into their every demand.

The "peace loving" terrorists of Hamas are cowards that hide behind women and children. I pray that God's chosen people anihilate every last one of these scumbags.

Submitted by PTC Avenger on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 3:28pm.

You have no idea what you're talking about. How easy it must be to get all your news from the mainstream American outlets.

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 3:54pm.

What were the secret happenings over the past four weeks that were left unreported? Did the IDF send clandestine patrols into Gaza just for S&G's? Was there something more than the rocket attacks that originated from the Gaza/Hamas controlled area? I am so curious what the talking heads on Al Jeezera, Xinhua News Agency, or SANA are saying to you that gives you such great insight as compared to the rest of us Untermensch who rely on Western news outlets. Yes, Yes...

inform us please!!! What secret zionist plan is afoot? I await with baited breath.

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Wed, 11/19/2008 - 3:18pm.

That has always been something that has troubled me. I cannot think of any other war where the victor did NOT return conquered land to the vanquished, i.e. America was victorious in WWII but didn't claim land in Germany and Japan as the spoils of war. Only the Israelis did in 1967....I truly think that is the major stumbling block between Israel and other middle east countries recognizing Israel's right to exist. That, and the fact that arab pride precludes acknowledging that the Israelis cleaned their collective clocks back in 1967.

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Thu, 12/11/2008 - 2:02pm.

The Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits territory being acquired as a result of warfare. In 2005 the Israeli Supreme Court, upholding the constitutionality of returning Gaza to the Palestinians (the Gaza Disengagement Act) ruled that Gaza and the West Bank were not legally part of Israel. When Israel annexed the Golan Heights in 1981 under the Golan Heights Law, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 497 rejecting the action. The Israeli settlements have been ruled illegal under UN Resolutions 446, 465, 484, et. al. and by the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention and the International Red Cross (the arbiter of the Conventions). These rulings are why Israel claims the territories as “disputed” instead of “occupied”.

The Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 (signed by all 22 Arab countries) offers to “Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.” and to, “Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace” if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders and recognizes Palestine.

Obviously Israel is not going to withdraw to the 1967 borders but nothing precludes Israel and Palestine from negotiating a treaty mutually agreeing to a modified border which could then be recognized under international law.

Refinement of a treaty returning the Golan Heights: Israel-Syria Treaty, was nearing conclusion until the Bush administration threatened to withhold one-fourth of the $10 million per day we give Israel unless the Israelis ended the negotiations (they objected to negotiating with Assad). Obama and Israel will probably pursue this aggressively in a deal to wean Syria from Iran and to kick Hamas out of Damascus.

None of this is to condemn Israel which has consistently (and IMO correctly) held that the legality of the acquisition of territory (Gaza, Golan, West Bank)does not apply to an ongoing conflict. The settlements issue has far less legal standing.

In any event, the legal resolution of these issues is what the peace process is all about and why each must be considered.

Sorry to be so long.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 12/30/2008 - 4:44pm.

Most of your info is correct, but I'm having difficulty finding anything in the Protocols that addresses the "aquisition of lands issue". It's my understanding, and first hand knowledge that the Geneva convention of 1949 (the Fourth) is related to the humaine treatment of P.O.W.s and other non-combatants. Is there anything in the previous conventions, including the Hague, that you might be refering to?

Since the Israeli/Palestine thing started in 1948, I don't think the convention of 1949 would pertain to this particular conflict.

The Wedge's picture
Submitted by The Wedge on Thu, 12/11/2008 - 11:50am.

History is filled with the victors changing national boundaries and spheres of influence. Soviet Union after WWII and against them in WWI, the US after the Mexican-American War, the Spanish American War, etc. If you are looking for more modern instances, look to Russian actions in Georgia and what the end result will be.

The Arab countries have historically (before 1967) refused Israel's right to exist and a retreat to the 1967 border is not going to allow the Arab governments to suddenly recognize them. Their people will not allow it. The leaders have learned the lesson of the outcome of Anwar Sadat. Their people will allow temporary and tactical recognition and diplomacy as long as the end result remains the elimination of the Jewish state.

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 10:31am.

After wasting years they might actually implement the only solution. We'll see. As you know, there has been a modicum of criticism about the plan. LOL.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 12:01pm.

Do you remember when James Baker laid out his solution of land for peace during the during an AIPAC conference in 1989. Do you remember what happened? Do you also remember how Clinton used that to his advantage to project Bush-41 as being anti-Israel. Clinton got something like 80% of the Jewish vote.

I'm very curious on how AIPAC will receive Obama's endorsement of the Arab's 2002 plan.

Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Submitted by Bonkers on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 11:17am.

What happened to "the road map?" Bush's plan wasn't it?
Where did the map end?

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 1:01pm.

The "road map" was a fraud. Most of it was ignored and the parts that either side tried to implement were actively sabotaged by the administration.

Mike King's picture
Submitted by Mike King on Mon, 11/17/2008 - 12:58pm.

...would be to add that a major bartering tool used in the Camp David Accords was to replace the oil Israel would lose by giving back the oil rich Sinai that was seized in 1967. A little known tidbit that the American taxpayer has been paying for 30 years now.

My question to the new Administration would be: "How much more annually is the US Taxpayer going to have to pay? The US at one time was capable of "buying" foreign policy initiatives, but we would be wise to weigh these extra costs.

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