We have a new president

Father David Epps's picture

This article was written two weeks prior to the 2008 presidential elections, so unless there is a “hanging chad” issue or problems with voter fraud, or an intensely close vote count, we have a President-elect and a Vice-President-elect. Whether your man won or lost, whether President-elect McCain and Vice-President-elect Palin are preparing to assume office or it’s President-elect Obama and Vice-President-elect Biden preparing to lead the country, the election is over, done, fini.

Here’s what I have to say about it: God’s will has been done.

I don’t expect people who are more political than they are Christian to understand this but, for the followers of Christ, the people who are to assume office in January are there by the will and plan of God.

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God” (Romans 13:1). That’s pretty clear; men campaign, spend effort, and vote but, in the end, God establishes.

The scriptures teach that He also removes people from positions of authority and power. “He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble” (Luke 1:52). “He breaks the spirit of rulers; he is feared by the kings of the earth” (Psalm 76:12). “He brings princes to naught and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing” (Isaiah 40:23).

As my wife and I were flying into Washington, D.C., a couple of weeks ago, we could see the Capitol Building and the Washington Monument. “What a beautiful city,” I said, looking out the window of the aircraft. “What a corrupt city,” Cindy responded. Both are true.

I have known people who have touched the political side of the city and several of them expressed that the contact made them feel soiled. There is a tendency for power to corrupt — either the person holding power or the person wanting to be close to the power.

Whichever team is now awaiting inauguration, they must surely see this. One team proclaimed the need for change. The other campaigned on the need for reform. I just pray that whoever has been elected will simply walk in integrity.

The ancient prophet spoke harshly of leaders in his day and well could have been describing what the American citizenry has experienced: “Your rulers are rebels, companions of thieves; they all love bribes and chase after gifts. They do not defend the cause of the fatherless; the widow’s case does not come before them” (Isaiah 1:23).

May it not be so with our new leaders! God has promised his help for those that have just been elected, saying, “By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just” (Proverbs 8:15).

We have a part to play, too. The time for ugly behavior, snide remarks, angry conversation, gossip and accusations, half-truths and falsehoods is over — if indeed there was ever a place for such thoughts, words, and deeds.

Now, we must support our new President and Vice-president and those who come to assist and advise them. “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority ...” (1 Peter 2:13).

As Americans, we are quite accustomed to behaving in ways that are un-Christian and completely incompatible with the teachings of Christ. We like to criticize, to rail against, to threaten, to accuse ... but when it comes to leaders, we must be very cautious: “Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:12).

Above all, we are to pray “for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness” (1 Timothy 2:2).

Whether your candidate was elected or not is now irrelevant. It is time to support and pray for the leaders of the land. If they sin, we pray God will have mercy. If they are in error, we pray God will correct them. If they are proud and arrogant, we pray they humble themselves. If they are humble, may God bless and exalt them.

We have new leaders. Thanks be to God. Lord have mercy and bless your people with grace and peace.

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George Washington & Abraham Lincoln's Prayers for their country
alittlebirdietoldme's picture
Submitted by alittlebirdietoldme on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:46am.

http://www.nationalgpa.org/historymakers.html

(sorry-don't know how to make this a link!)


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birdie's Link
Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:51am.

birdie's Link

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


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Was this God's Will? A Prophetic response
alittlebirdietoldme's picture
Submitted by alittlebirdietoldme on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:36am.

Was This God's Will?

Was what happened Tuesday God's will? I am quite confident it was not. America was offered a very clear choice between moving further toward protecting the unborn or further away; between a Supreme Court that would move toward honoring God, life and morality or away from it. The stakes couldn't have been higher nor the cost greater. As a nation we put on blinders concerning Barak Obama's background, associations, beliefs and practices, and set these causes back years, possibly decades.
And in doing so we took another step away from God and His plans for America, and another step toward judgment.

Judgment Will Increase

This is not a fire and brimstone warning from an angry, legalistic preacher. In fact, I feel more sadness and grief than anything else. Perhaps I feel what Jesus felt as He wept for Jerusalem while announcing its judgment. I am not hoping for judgment; I am saying it is inevitable. I don't know where the unbiblical belief comes from that says a nation can live any way it pleases, can reject God and His ways-even mock Him-and not receive His judgments. Nor do I know when the belief came that it is always mean-spirited or judgmental to warn of these things. To the contrary, I believe it is our responsibility.

In warning of judgment, I am not suggesting that God is going to intentionally and directly hurt people. Much judgment is simply the absence of God's protection and provision, caused by a rejection of His laws and ways. We have been experiencing some forms of judgment in America for years, but God in His incredible patience and mercy has kept us from the level we've deserved. I believe this will change to a degree and judgment will now increase:

· For those in the Church who aligned themselves with pro-abortion forces, I believe judgment will result.
· For leaders in the Body of Christ who refused to take a stand for fear of losing people, money, and tax-exempt status-I believe there will be a degree of judgment.
· For those, both within the Church and without, who voted money over morality-a potential raise or better health insurance over the life of a baby-there will be judgment. (The irony is that this decision to base one's vote on the hopes of a better economy won't produce the hoped for result anyway. The scriptures teach that it is righteousness which exalts a nation and that the nation is blessed whose God is the Lord.)
I have heard the argument that God cares as much about social justice issues (such as poverty and racism) as He does abortion, making a vote for Obama OK. I certainly believe God puts a very high priority on caring for the poor and I, too, have wanted to see equality demonstrated through a "minority" president. But to equate having a better income or the desire for a first black president, regardless of his positions on abortion and morality, to the issue of killing 50 million babies is not justice-it is a gross distortion of justice and great deception. I fear that we have been desensitized to this issue of abortion. I believe it kills babies and takes innocent life. I also believe it is blood sacrifice that empowers demons. Let's not forget this in our noble attempts to be kind and conciliatory.
For African Americans I can easily see how it could bring healing to have a first black president, just as it would be for Native Americans to achieve this or for women if a woman were elected president. Again, I have wanted to see justice in this way. I am only saddened that the price for this healing ended up being Barak Obama, a man that will set the cause of life and, most-likely, our God-given destiny as a nation back so drastically. (I also realize there are some who interpret any criticism of Obama as racism. Racism is so NOT what I am about nor what I live, that I will not even dignify any such accusations with a response.)

What Can We Expect?

What are some of the judgments we can expect on our nation from this election?

· More economic woes
· More violence in an already violent nation
· Disease and death (satan, who is responsible for these things will have greater inroads to our nation.)
· Natural disasters (weather-tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, drought; fires; earthquakes; etc.)
· Terrorism (they will fear us much less now)
· War, perhaps on our own soil
· Judgments relating to the Court. The stacking of the Supreme Court against the sanctity of life and God's influence on America will occur, which will in turn cause the shedding of more innocent blood, more rejection of God's laws and the stealing from us of our godly heritage-all of which will perpetuate a cycle of even more judgment.

How Did This Happen?

I've been asked if this could have been averted had there been more prayer. I'm not sure. I believe there was a remnant of Christians fervently praying over these elections-I don't think there was anything more they could have done. Others, obviously, should have done more. The complacency and lack of discernment concerning our real condition in America-especially by the Church-is both appalling and horrifying. America is in serious trouble and it seems no one wants to say it. Fewer still are willing to do anything to change it.

Though I understand our reasons, we must be careful in our attempts to placate our feelings and calm our fears through religious phrases like "God is still on the throne" or "God has a plan". He was on His throne 35 years and 50 million babies ago. And He had a plan back then. The problem is, it was us. I understand our reasons for waving high the banner of God's sovereignty at times like these-it gives us hope. I will wave it, as well. But please be careful with this. Too much emphasis on God's sovereignty and we're worthless; too little and we're hopeless. Maybe we should say, "we lost a critical battle but God will give us strategy to win the war." Then find the strategy.

But still yet, since God is usually willing to work through a remnant, I thought we had enough prayer. Obviously, God decided otherwise. There comes a time when He will not forgive or bless the majority based on the prayers or actions of only a few. America rejected God and asked for a king; I believe we now have our Saul (see 1 Samuel 8:5-7)-a man who does not have God's heart for America but his own. Like Israel in scripture, our nation believes it can turn from God and still be blessed. In His mercy and justice He will show us otherwise.

Like many, believing I had many promises and confirmations that God would "grace" us with a pro-life president in this election, I failed to consider strongly enough that all promises-even scripture-are conditional 99.9% of the time. Though I never prophesied or made guarantees that McCain-Palin would win, failing to factor this principle in strongly enough no doubt caused me to share my optimism with others inappropriately. If this caused any harm or confusion, I apologize.

Has the fact that my prayers weren't answered shaken my faith? No. I'm a little confused and discouraged. I'm also somewhat angry at the nation in general and much of the Church. Mostly I'm grieving over the nation and what this will cost us. I am not, however, angry with God and do not question His justice. And it is not true that we wasted our time, energy and money in our efforts anymore than it is a waste when we share the gospel with people who don't get saved. We must keep in the forefront of our thinking the fact that ultimately we are doing this for Him and that He will reward us for our faithfulness. And who knows, perhaps He will store up all those prayers for the next battle (Revelation 5:8, 8:3-5).

A friend and fellow warrior said it well,

"We did 'give it our all.' I know the Lord was pleased with that. A coach wants to know one thing at the end of a heartbreaking sports loss: 'Did you leave it all on the field?' (your passion, your commitment, your strength, your courage, etc.) I know that we 'left it all on the field.' We didn't hold anything back until the game ended. Tragically, it ended in defeat. We will rise for another day because Jesus is worthy."

Where Do We Go from Here?

Does this election outcome shake my faith that we can see a great awakening and ultimately reformation in America? Absolutely not (and it strengthens my resolve). We will simply get there through greater pain and loss. Even my passion to see the Supreme Court shift is not from a presupposition that there can be no spiritual awakening without it. It is simply due to my deep conviction that their decisions bring so much death, destruction, curses and judgment to America; and because our full destiny as a nation is unquestionably linked to their decisions. So, yes, we will get an awakening and reformation; but the reality is that this reformation of the nation will reform the Supreme Court (and government, in general), not vice-versa. My faith has never been in people or a political party; my faith is in the God who works through them.

I've been asked if my feelings about Sarah Palin have changed. They have not. I believe she is an Esther, a Deborah, with a huge mantle from God for reformation. God has a great destiny for her related to this nation if she chooses to continue down this path.

So, in conclusion, we must re-group as an apostolic, praying church and advance. We must maintain an immovable faith in God, His plans for America and His mercy. And we must move beyond simply asking God for a spiritual awakening and ask Him for strategy to produce reformation, as well. I, for one, am just getting started!

Dutch Sheets


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GOD'S WILL
Submitted by Davids mom on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 6:45pm.

If you want to see God laugh - tell him/her your plan. Jesus and Moses gave us guidelines. Are we following them? (The Ten Commandments) Try as we might to infuse our plans in our prayers to God, we will see results only as we adhere to HIS/HER plan. God doesn't always say 'yes'. Our prayers are not always for our needs - but often for our 'wants'. This country has been blessed. It will continue to be blessed as a people unite under goals that adhere to the directions of the Ten Commandments. Our Constitution is based on Christian/Judaic law. We have the freedom of praying to a higher power based on our own individual belief - and also the freedom of not praying or acknowledging a higher power. As citizens, we have the responsibility to make sure that our leaders follow our Constitution. We have had an election. The results have not been legally challenged. Our country and our world are in mental and physical chaos. Many who believe in prayer are praying for stabilization and peace throughout our universe. Often before healing - there is a process called chemicalization. Our country has survived periods of chemicalization in our history - and we will continue to survive, no matter who is the president. Let's expect the best from the new administration - and be prepared to voice our opinions when we feel this is not happening. (This is what the last election has shown - we as a people have power through our vote.

No matter who the president is - women, under the current interpretation of our Constitution, have freedom to make choices regarding their bodies. The decision to abort is a very difficult/heart rending decision - and very personal. The Catholic church has determined that life begins in the womb. Jesus, according to some believers, demonstrated that life is eternal, spiritual, and not limited to the material body. There are many life and death issues that are determined by our Constitution. The profound wisdom of separating religion from government is, to me, so important in the discussion of abortion. . . and our legislators should be involved in the issues of economy, war, world peace, energy, etc. . . and the churches, scientists and individual citizens work on the problem of when life begins and ends. Pro-choice is not necessarily pro-abortion.

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For True Believers, Yes, It WAS God's Will!
Submitted by sadforhaters on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 6:07pm.

Dutch,
I'll state it again, "For TRUE believers, it was God's will." How can a man of God think anything else? In fact, the following words are attributed to you at The 700 Club (http://www.cbn.com/700club/guests/bios/dutch_sheets102308.aspx): "Forthis election, it is important for people to pray for God’s will. We can’t base our votes on the war, economy, etc. – we need to base our vote on God’s issues, like abortion. We cannot shed any more innocent blood through abortion. We have to pray for God’s choice, a president who will appoint the right judges. Pray for a completion of what God has begun on the Supreme Court. Winning this war is imperative! Christians must pray, “Your Kingdom come, Your will be done.”

Ok, Dutch, the results of the election are now, somehow, not God's will?? Dutch, come on now, what is this really about?

I am a true believer, I voted my heart and conscience, and prayed for God's will to be done. Although all of the election results didn't go as I had prayed, I have accepted the results as God's will.

Father Epps stated it best, "Whether your candidate was elected or not is now irrelevant. It is time to support and pray for the leaders of the land. If they sin, we pray God will have mercy. If they are in error, we pray God will correct them. If they are proud and arrogant, we pray they humble themselves. If they are humble, may God bless and exalt them.

We have new leaders. Thanks be to God. Lord have mercy and bless your people with grace and peace."

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Dutch: religion and politics
Submitted by Nitpickers on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 12:01pm.

A never ending argument!

There will be just as many abortions after a "abortion hating President is elected," as before!
We have had several and it changed nothing.

I don't think Esther and Deborah wore $150,000 worth of clothes for 2-3 weekw and got caught at it!
What is a "huge mantle from God?" Please? Would she have a choice if she had whatever that is?

There are 7 Billion humans on earth, approximately. 7,000,000,000.
Your opinion about them all being judged for multitudes of opinions makes no sense.

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birdie... god and judgment for the U.S.A.
Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:32am.

It is time that voters like you, and the person who wrote this, start a viable 3rd party in this country. If the right-wing evangelical's feel so strongly about these issues (abortion, gays), then please extract yourselves from the Republican party and start another party based on your religious beliefs.


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Main Stream
JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 1:37pm.

Birdie's faction IS the Republican party now.


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Palin's Mantle
muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:19am.

I believe she is an Esther, a Deborah, with a huge mantle from God for reformation.

Is that what it was?

Somebody said that it was just a towel. Smiling

____________________

"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue


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muddle: Palin's mantle
Submitted by Nitpickers on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 12:11pm.

It was not me that said it was a towel.

I think that the person meant the definition of mantle as one of those "hoods" that can be put over an open flame and it will glow through it! You know like Angels have around their head?

She does not handle snakes nor pick up hot stoves, however.

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It Burns! Dear Lord, IT BURNS!
sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:50am.

"Somebody said that it was just a towel."

Coca-cola out the nose BURNS like a sonofabutch! Laughing out loud


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Birdie and Dutch,
carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:13am.

Your God is just like you. Imagine that.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


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God's Will and Elections
muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:10am.

How far shall we take this reasoning?

Suppose that I live in a country in which a military coup has taken place with the result that I live under the governance of a tyrannical dictator. Has God's will been accomplished in this regime change? This is highly implausible. One implication would seem to be that the proper Christian response to unjust rulers and their injustices is acquiescence if not outright support.

It is even less plausible to suggest that everything that ever happens is the accomplishment of a divine purpose. Then, whatever is the case ought to be, and we have effectively eliminated the category of evil from our understanding of the world since, presumably, all of God's purposes are good. Murder, mayhem and madness are thus but the outworking of His plan. (Is this an implication of Warren's Purpose-Driven Life?).

But if we allow that a regime change by means of a coup may be contrary to God's will, why should we suppose that, in principle, any democratic election must accomplish God's purposes regardless of outcome? While I believe that democracy is morally the best form of government this side of heaven, I'm not sure that I am prepared to say that it has this degree of divine sanction.

None of this is, of course, a commentary on the actual results of this past election, but why not suppose that it is, in principle, possible for such an election to result in what should be deemed a moral tragedy and thus contrary to the will of God?

____________________

"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue


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muddle, MYTMITE...mixing politics and religion
Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 10:51pm.

ON November 4, Barack Obama was elected President.

On November 5, these were the winning numbers in the Illinois Lottery’s Evening Pick 3 game:

LINK

"If I were a religious person, I’d be freaking out right about now…Instead, I’ll just smirk at the thought that somewhere a religious person is probably freaking out right about now." Evil


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Muddle, I have often wondered about just those things--
Submitted by MYTMITE on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 4:20pm.

If both sides feel they are right and both pray to God--then what? I remember some years back when I was volunteering with parents and families dealing with childhood cancers. One mother had just lost her child. Another mother's child was improving. While I was talking with the mother who had recently lost her child we overheard the mother of the child who was improving saying it was a miracle and her child was getting better because of her prayers. The bereaved mother looked at me with such agony and said "Don't you think I prayed just as hard as she did?". Was it God's intervention with the one child? If so, why not with the other child? That has stayed with me all these years. Why do things happen the way they do? Two football teams praying before a game--only one team wins--better playing or divine intervention? If God does intervene does he handle such mundane things as football games or only life and death situations---wars, elections ???? Food for thought.

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Prayer
Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:32pm.

I was mad when my husband died six years ago today. I said it wasn't fair, it shouldn't have happened to him. He didn't deserve to be so sick and in so much pain. I wanted it to be me.

We prayed and prayed that he would get well and come home, but that didn't happen. The only comfort that I have is it was his time to die and nothing could change that.

I still pray. I believe prayers are answered, we just don't get to choose how they're answered. I guess we're not supposed to understand why. It took a long time for me to accept that. We just have to carry on.

Tug


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Tug,
Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 4:54am.

I'm saying a prayer for you right now at 0453 because I know it makes a difference.


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Tug:Prayer
Submitted by skyspy on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 11:39pm.

I know you had mentioned before that this time of year was hard for you. I didn't know today was the day.

I hope that you found comfort and blessings in your day. Something that cheered you up and gave you happy memories. My thoughts and prayers are with you, for comfort and for your own health. You are one of the special people here who has touched many people. You remind me so much of my grandmother, so strong, smart and cheerful.

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Tug
hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 8:47pm.

On this sad anniversary I share your sorrow, I never met your husband but he must of been a very fine person for someone as nice as you are to love so much. There was an episode on MASH once where a man believed he was Christ, and when someone asked if it was true God answered all prayers the man said yes, but sometimes the answer was no. This explained it as well as anyone ever has to me even though it was just a television show. I'm thinking of you today, and I hope you find the comfort you deserve.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


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Hutch, Cy & Sky
Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 10:55am.

Thank you for your thoughts & prayers. (Bonkers, Nit, et al, no comment from you please)
Hutch you would have liked my husband, everybody did. Y'all would have had a lot to talk about. I don't know if I ever told you this, but he was in the Heating & Air business. I know you miss your sister too. I haven't forgotten that.

Cy! Please git rid of that frog. It's making me dizzy, or maybe it's ditsy. Smiling

Sky, I'm not always cheerful, I try though. People tell me I have a sad look about me now.

(Muddle, I hope you and the Mrs. are doing OK.)

I hope all of you have a wonderful day. I keep thinking about Mr. Wulfman. I hope he will be Ok.
Tug Smiling


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Miss Lady Tug
Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 6:19pm.

You sure fooled me, you are always chipper and sunny.

You hang in there, you mean so much to so many people. You bring joy and happiness here that is for sure.

Check out this blog: wbcptc.blogspot.com I don't know if you are a bird watcher or not, but this site always cheers me up. No negative talk there.

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OK Tug and Jane1,
Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 5:42pm.

I'll get rid of "hypnotoad" when I get back from Newark.

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


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I like the toad,
carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Tue, 11/11/2008 - 5:43am.

but I don't know why.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


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Cyclist---
Submitted by MYTMITE on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 11:59pm.

I like the toad-I like the toad-I like the toad---

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Hypnotoad
muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 7:53pm.

Yes, master.

____________________

"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue


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MYTMITE
muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 6:23pm.

I have struggled with such questions (and more) for years. And so I'm perhaps not the best person to ask.

One thing seems clear to me: If indeed God answers prayer by way of direct intervention, there is no algorithm to guarantee results. And so, in this, those preachers are simply mistaken in suggesting that the formula simply involves sufficient faith.

This is to be expected, as, presumably, we are dealing with a Person with purposes of his own rather than a vending machine.

This observation, by the way, makes a recent "experiment" ripe for parody. In a controlled experiment, one group was routinely prayed for and the other was not. The results: prayer makes no difference whatsoever. This is so unbelievably naive. Perhaps God simply did not deign to play along. Or perhaps someone in the "non-prayer" group had an Aunt Edna in Seattle who, unbeknownst to the researchers, prayed regularly for him.

I do not have an answer regarding the kinds of things with which God might concern himself. Life and death? Elections? Finding an empty parking space at the grocery? I often hear preachers say things like the latter that just strike me as absurd. I could never pretend to know the mind of God, but I might venture that the criteria are his and not ours, so that we may come away perplexed as we cannot see rhyme or reason.

Another factor, particularly when it comes to life and death, is that we are perhaps mistaken in supposing that death is the worst thing that can happen to us. Someone dies despite our prayers, and we assume the worst regarding their fate. But perhaps what they experience trumps anything that this life ever has to offer.

On a philosophical level, arguments to the effect that "If there is a God, then he would do such and such"--offered in conjunction with the observation that such and such does not obtain--routinely assume that we are in a position to know the thoughts and purposes of an infinite mind. Are we?

One of the most thoughtful things I've read about such things is a small book by C.S. Lewis, Letters to Malcolm, Chiefly on Prayer.

____________________

"Puddleglum" by Weatherwax (one of the Muddlings).

Jeeves to the Rescue


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Muddle, thank you for your response.
Submitted by MYTMITE on Mon, 11/10/2008 - 1:09am.

I find I have to think there is something there--something to believe in--something bigger than all of us. Maybe it is that our prayers are answered but not in the way we wanted them answered. There have been things I have struggled with for years--somethings I just cannot accept with some religions. I find it hard to accept that a loving and just God would allow little ones to suffer. I find it hard to accept, as some religions believe, that if a child is not baptised before he dies that he cannot enter Heaven, that that child is born with original sin. I just believe that children are born innocent and should not pay for sins they did not commit. Maybe I am being too simpilistic. In the past I have found it hard to accept that friends felt that they could sin (at that time going to movies banned by the church, etc--not committing murder or such)one day, go and confess the next and feel they were absolved of that sin and then go commit the same sin the next week. My feeling was that if I felt it was okay to do something I would have to feel I had not committed a sin--if I felt it was a sin I would not have done it in the first place and definitely continued to commit the same sin time after time with the same confessions time after time. I also had friends who would light candles for things they wanted--not world peace or end to suffering but a date for Friday nite! I have tried to read as much as I can about many religions. What I have been able to come up with (my personal feelings only) is that I should live the best life I can--treat others as I would like to be treated, help those I can and try to do no harm. I do believe there is a geater power---just do not think one certain religion has a monopoly on it. I do pray--I pray for my loved ones, for my friends, for those in pain and those hurting in other ways---I do not know if my prayers are heard but I know I get satisfaction from praying and I believe those I pray for get satisfaction from the fact that I pray for them. I pray also for Bonkers, who seems to need all our prayers.

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muddle: elections or coups
Submitted by Bonkers on Sun, 11/09/2008 - 12:51pm.

I think that I can agree with your entire comment.
I don't think Herod was divinely inspired, although he could have been for the things he accomplished!

Anyway, there ain't no way we can know these things and when we think that we can, then is when we foul-up everything.

Reverends however MUST say what happened was meant to happen. Otherwise it wouldn't have happened. I think it just happened due to circumstances!

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Surprised you printed this! Mr. Epps
Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 11/08/2008 - 11:39am.

I agree with the commentor about God picking the leaders, or actually approving of those someone else picked! That is baloney.

And just what is "those in authority?"
Is the dog-catcher "in authority." The gals at the town hall?

What it all means is: let them alone and have them let you alone with your religion!

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Get Real... God Does NOT Care
Submitted by forteiii on Sat, 11/08/2008 - 9:29am.

You couldn't possibly believe that God cares who the president is...

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forteiii...
Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 11/08/2008 - 9:40am.

"You couldn't possibly believe that God cares who the president is..."

ummmm, this is TheCitzen.com online community... of course they believe this!


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Anybody Know
Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 11/08/2008 - 11:46am.

What "believe" means as far as the President wanting Obama as President?
Or is it that whomever won is OK?
Or is it that it was planned that way?
Or is it that however we vote suits Him?
Or Does he tell us how to vote?

Wish I knew, not "believed."

It just seems that everything that happens was supposed to from way back decisions!

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Father David Epps
Submitted by Davids mom on Sat, 11/08/2008 - 8:11am.

AMEN!

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