Would the Last Honest Reporter Please Turn On the Lights?

jonnycat's picture

Editor's note: Orson Scott Card is a Democrat and a newspaper columnist, and in this opinion piece he takes on both while lamenting the current state of journalism.

An open letter to the local daily paper — almost every local daily paper in America:

I remember reading All the President's Men and thinking: That's journalism. You do what it takes to get the truth and you lay it before the public, because the public has a right to know.

This housing crisis didn't come out of nowhere. It was not a vague emanation of the evil Bush administration.

It was a direct result of the political decision, back in the late 1990s, to loosen the rules of lending so that home loans would be more accessible to poor people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized to approve risky loans.

What is a risky loan? It's a loan that the recipient is likely not to be able to repay.

The goal of this rule change was to help the poor — which especially would help members of minority groups. But how does it help these people to give them a loan that they can't repay? They get into a house, yes, but when they can't make the payments, they lose the house — along with their credit rating.

They end up worse off than before.

This was completely foreseeable and in fact many people did foresee it. One political party, in Congress and in the executive branch, tried repeatedly to tighten up the rules. The other party blocked every such attempt and tried to loosen them.

Furthermore, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were making political contributions to the very members of Congress who were allowing them to make irresponsible loans. (Though why quasi-federal agencies were allowed to do so baffles me. It's as if the Pentagon were allowed to contribute to the political campaigns of Congressmen who support increasing their budget.)

Isn't there a story here? Doesn't journalism require that you who produce our daily paper tell the truth about who brought us to a position where the only way to keep confidence in our economy was a $700 billion bailout? Aren't you supposed to follow the money and see which politicians were benefiting personally from the deregulation of mortgage lending?

I have no doubt that if these facts had pointed to the Republican Party or to John McCain as the guilty parties, you would be treating it as a vast scandal. "Housing-gate," no doubt. Or "Fannie-gate."

Instead, it was Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, both Democrats, who denied that there were any problems, who refused Bush administration requests to set up a regulatory agency to watch over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and who were still pushing for these agencies to go even further in promoting sub-prime mortgage loans almost up to the minute they failed.

As Thomas Sowell points out in a TownHall.com essay entitled "Do Facts Matter?" ( http://snipurl.com/457townhall_com] ): "Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the President. So did Bush's Secretary of the Treasury."

These are facts. This financial crisis was completely preventable. The party that blocked any attempt to prevent it was ... the Democratic Party. The party that tried to prevent it was ... the Republican Party.

Yet when Nancy Pelosi accused the Bush administration and Republican deregulation of causing the crisis, you in the press did not hold her to account for her lie. Instead, you criticized Republicans who took offense at this lie and refused to vote for the bailout!

What? It's not the liar, but the victims of the lie who are to blame?

Now let's follow the money ... right to the presidential candidate who is the number-two recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae.

And after Freddie Raines, the CEO of Fannie Mae who made $90 million while running it into the ground, was fired for his incompetence, one presidential candidate's campaign actually consulted him for advice on housing.

If that presidential candidate had been John McCain, you would have called it a major scandal and we would be getting stories in your paper every day about how incompetent and corrupt he was.

But instead, that candidate was Barack Obama, and so you have buried this story, and when the McCain campaign dared to call Raines an "adviser" to the Obama campaign — because that campaign had sought his advice — you actually let Obama's people get away with accusing McCain of lying, merely because Raines wasn't listed as an official adviser to the Obama campaign.

You would never tolerate such weasely nit-picking from a Republican.

If you who produce our local daily paper actually had any principles, you would be pounding this story, because the prosperity of all Americans was put at risk by the foolish, short-sighted, politically selfish, and possibly corrupt actions of leading Democrats, including Obama.

If you who produce our local daily paper had any personal honor, you would find it unbearable to let the American people believe that somehow Republicans were to blame for this crisis.

There are precedents. Even though President Bush and his administration never said that Iraq sponsored or was linked to 9/11, you could not stand the fact that Americans had that misapprehension — so you pounded us with the fact that there was no such link. (Along the way, you created the false impression that Bush had lied to them and said that there was a connection.)

If you had any principles, then surely right now, when the American people are set to blame President Bush and John McCain for a crisis they tried to prevent, and are actually shifting to approve of Barack Obama because of a crisis he helped cause, you would be laboring at least as hard to correct that false impression.

Your job, as journalists, is to tell the truth. That's what you claim you do, when you accept people's money to buy or subscribe to your paper.

But right now, you are consenting to or actively promoting a big fat lie — that the housing crisis should somehow be blamed on Bush, McCain, and the Republicans. You have trained the American people to blame everything bad — even bad weather — on Bush, and they are responding as you have taught them to.

If you had any personal honor, each reporter and editor would be insisting on telling the truth — even if it hurts the election chances of your favorite candidate.

Because that's what honorable people do. Honest people tell the truth even when they don't like the probable consequences. That's what honesty means . That's how trust is earned.

Barack Obama is just another politician, and not a very wise one. He has revealed his ignorance and naivete time after time — and you have swept it under the rug, treated it as nothing.

Meanwhile, you have participated in the borking of Sarah Palin, reporting savage attacks on her for the pregnancy of her unmarried daughter — while you ignored the story of John Edwards's own adultery for many months.

So I ask you now: Do you have any standards at all? Do you even know what honesty means?

Is getting people to vote for Barack Obama so important that you will throw away everything that journalism is supposed to stand for?

You might want to remember the way the National Organization of Women threw away their integrity by supporting Bill Clinton despite his well-known pattern of sexual exploitation of powerless women. Who listens to NOW anymore? We know they stand for nothing; they have no principles.

That's where you are right now.

It's not too late. You know that if the situation were reversed, and the truth would damage McCain and help Obama, you would be moving heaven and earth to get the true story out there.

If you want to redeem your honor, you will swallow hard and make a list of all the stories you would print if it were McCain who had been getting money from Fannie Mae, McCain whose campaign had consulted with its discredited former CEO, McCain who had voted against tightening its lending practices.

Then you will print them, even though every one of those true stories will point the finger of blame at the reckless Democratic Party, which put our nation's prosperity at risk so they could feel good about helping the poor, and lay a fair share of the blame at Obama's door.

You will also tell the truth about John McCain: that he tried, as a Senator, to do what it took to prevent this crisis. You will tell the truth about President Bush: that his administration tried more than once to get Congress to regulate lending in a responsible way.

This was a Congress-caused crisis, beginning during the Clinton administration, with Democrats leading the way into the crisis and blocking every effort to get out of it in a timely fashion.

If you at our local daily newspaper continue to let Americans believe — and vote as if — President Bush and the Republicans caused the crisis, then you are joining in that lie.

If you do not tell the truth about the Democrats — including Barack Obama — and do so with the same energy you would use if the miscreants were Republicans — then you are not journalists by any standard.

You're just the public relations machine of the Democratic Party, and it's time you were all fired and real journalists brought in, so that we can actually have a news paper in our city.

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JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 8:27pm.

Msn he's one of my favorite fiction writers. Ender's Game! One of the best science fiction books ever written!

"Even though President Bush and his administration never said that Iraq sponsored or was linked to 9/11, you could not stand the fact that Americans had that misapprehension — so you pounded us with the fact that there was no such link. (Along the way, you created the false impression that Bush had lied to them and said that there was a connection.)"

See!!! Like I said, one of the best fiction writers ever!


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 4:40am.

His take on journalism in general and the housing crisis in particular is right on and 100% accurate. I told you all a month ago about the Community Reinvestment Act, the anti-redlining social engineering law designed to force banks (through ACORN-coordinated domestic terrorism) to make loans that everyone knew would not be paid back.

Liberal revisionists like Barney Frank call this affordable housing and try to blame Bush when in fact the CRA was hatched under Ford, nurtured under Carter and expanded wildly under Clinton - usually with a Democratic majority in Congress (at least in the House).

The reason people are so ignorant about this is because of the lack of journalistic integrity which is explained quite well by Mr. Card. The real story with all of the major players named would probably cost Obama the election so no card carrying liberal "reporter" is going to touch that hot potato.

I think real people will wake up when they see actual evidence that their house has been devalued by at least 20% and start wondering why and digging deeper for information and causes. It is really not hard to figure out. JeffC and his ilk understand this all too well and are running scared until election day - but of course it will take much longer that 10 days for this whole "affordable housing" scam to be revealed. And it will probably take a book to do it since the newspaper and TV editors that still have jobs are such sheep when it comes to electing the Messiah.


Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 8:56am.

Robert: this is why the origins of the shocking housing debacle are not being pursued by the media. The independent Pew Research Center for the People released a recent major survey...

"By a margin of 70%-9%, Americans say most journalists want to see Obama, not John McCain, win on Nov. 4. Another 8% say journalists don't favor either candidate, and 13% say they don't know which candidate most reporters support." The question: "Who do you think most newspaper reporters and TV journalists want to see win the presidential election -- Barack Obama or John McCain?" 90 percent of Republicans said that journalists hope Obama wins, and even 62 percent of Democrats and independents said the same!!


Submitted by justwondering on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:09am.

Christian, you are correct. I have finally figured out why the press wants Obama to win. It is because they are afraid of Sarah Palin. They consider her to be a female Ronald Reagen, the man who almost destroyed the Democratic party. There are 1000's of people who like Sarah, and tons of groups who support her, but the press does not show them. Many PUMA members now support Sarah. Go to www.hillaryforum.net to see how many now support Sarah.

Birth certificate: go to http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244/stop-obama-constitutional-crisis to voice your concern to congress.

diva's picture
Submitted by diva on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:27am.

.."they are afraid of Sarah Palin. They consider her to be a female Ronald Reagen,"

SARAH PALIN = RONALD REAGAN

I say again..

SARAH PALIN = RONALD REAGAN

Complete with the wonderful gift of gab, the warm, inviting personality, the steady hand of leadership, and the Hollywood wardrobe Laughing out loud Laughing out loud Laughing out loud

O M G!!!

R O T F!

S Y P!

P Y P!

N F W!


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:38am.

What a laugh!

Seriously though, it's a documented fact that Mullah Dobson and his Focus on (Destroying) The Family crew had set out this year to identify a younger version of Margaret Thatcher that they could mold and package for their own cause. Good looks was desirable, perky breasts were a plus. Palin seemed to be the Chosen One.

I laughed yesterday when a slew of Bush operatives complained (off the record of course) yesterday how hard it was to bring Palin up to speed on issues. It's almost like she's resistant to learnin', dontcha know!


diva's picture
Submitted by diva on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:04am.

Everyone but you, Robert Morgan, Richard Hobbs, Winby, Skyspy, all the BPRs and Bonkers, MOCs, Fred Garvin, and a handful of other folks that have really enjoyed the last 8 years want Obama to win. Pretty much, it's you guys against the planet, reality, and even a few space aliens who swung buy out of intergalactic curiosity. I hear they've even contributed and registered to vote in Ohio Laughing out loud


Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:38am.

122,295,345 "citizens" (real and imaginary) voted in 2004 (about 57% of the voting age population). The percentage voting in 1960 was actually over 63%. Will it be in the high 60's this year?

In 2004, George Bush got 62,040,610 votes, and John Kerry got 59,028,439 votes (this Democratic total includes hundreds of thousands of votes by illegal aliens, dead people, felons, family pets, and repeat trips by vans loaded with urban campers).

Because of the massive fraud in swing states (which will exceed anything the Dems have ever tried since 1960), John McCain will probably need 65 (maybe 70?) million votes to win. He will not get it.

The unchecked Democrats will then proceed to take a struggling economy and make it far worse. Private sector job creation is going to be non-existent for the next couple of years.


diva's picture
Submitted by diva on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:45am.

How would one make THIS economy WORSE?


Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:54am.

In 1933-1934 it was about 25%. With no Republicans able to counter-balance the Democrats, watch the economy stagger along from 2009-2011. The unemployment rate will soar into the teens (or worse). Private sector job creation is going away until the Republicans take back the House in 2 years.


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 9:44am.

Chrissy can't comprehend that the majority of Americans stand poised to reject the Republican party and embrace a Democrat in the upcoming election.

Therefore, he sowing seeds furiously to plant the idea in advance that Obama's election victory, if he is indeed victorious, is somehow "tainted".


Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 10:33am.

Democratic fraud at work:

According to STATSIndiana, In 2007, Indianapolis/Marion County has a population of 876,804, including 232,607 below 18 years of age, leaving 644,197 people in Marion County/Indianapolis 18 or over and thus eligible to vote.

So 644,197 people are eligible to be registered in Marion County/Indianapolis, and 677,401 people are actually registered!!!!

How about this heavily Democratic area of Alabama? Six Alabama counties have more people registered to vote than adults of voting age. "The Birmingham News compared the state’s voter registration numbers with the Census Bureau’s population estimates and found more registered voters than voting-age adults in Conecuh, Greene, Lowndes, Perry, Washington and Wilcox counties."

The News reported that the biggest variations were in Greene and Perry counties.

Greene County had 7,540 people on its voter rolls at the end of September, but the Census Bureau estimates its adult population at 6,834!! Perry County had 8,517 registered voters and a population of 7,635 adults!!!

"Lucy Kynard, chairwoman of the Perry County Board of Registrars, said she wasn’t sure why registration would exceed the Census Bureau’s population estimate. She said the county’s voter rolls are updated regularly to remove voters who have died or moved their registration elsewhere."


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 11:53am.

Aww, reduced to cutting and pasting from fringe sites like Instapundit? Tsk.

anyway, I find it interesting that you regard increased voter registrations as evidence of DEMOCRATIC "fraud"....thank you for the tacit admission that no one in their right mind would register as a Republican in this day and age!

I also noticed you removed the word "estimated" from StatsIndiana's (who the heck are they?) population count that was in the original article. Makes that 644,197 figure seem sooooo official!

As far as explaining away discrepancies, I can think of two off the top of my head: 1) People move. And when people move, they register at their new address. what they DON'T do (typically) is inform the place that they've moved from to remove themselves from the voting rolls. 2) People die. all the time! And when they die there is no mechanism in place to remove them from voting rolls.

Now I've also noticed that you've once again attempted to conflate voter registraition fraud with voter fraud. Two separate and distinct issues, your intellectual dishonesty to the contrary notwithstanding. It is NOT up to the vote canvasser (aka the guy signing up people to vote) to determine if the person's name is valid, that's the job of the local Elections board. Federal law requires all filled out voter registrations to be turned in to the local elections board. why? Because Christian Republicans a few years back were "registering" poor people in low-income neighborhoods and then trashing these registrations, so that when the low income folks turned up at the polls there was no record of their having been registered.

In any event, with Georgia's new voter ID law, there is virtually no chance whatsoever that "Mickey Mouse" will be able to vote. I found it amusing that the Republican attorney general had a news conference to announce he was pressing charges against someone who had registered "Duran Duran" to vote....only to issue an apology the very next day when a guy whose legal birth name happened to be "Duran Duran" came forward and said, hey that's me!

So you keep trying to de-legitimize this election with innuendo and specious facts!


Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:11pm.

This information on the emerging Democratic fraud (wow. ACORN achieves 105% urban Hoosier registration!) in Indy was actually carried in the MSM, but I did re-look the numbers up on a conservative website (not the one you mentioned). Nevertheless, thanks for introducing me to Instapundit. You hate it, so it must be good. I'll check it out and spread the word.

BTW, THANKS FOR ADMITTING THE NEED for Georgia's new voter ID law, as you and I agree that "there is virtually no chance whatsoever that Mickey Mouse will be able to vote" with this new law. Apparently you are trying to turn over a new leaf after recently attempting to smear Gov. Palin (fake SAT scores) and a local Episcopal priest (character assassination).

Where the Democrats have stopped voter ID, you can be sure Mickey Mouse will be voting (or at least Goofy).

Could you cite a source on your newest baseless smear - you know the one about Christian Republicans registering poor people in low-income neighborhoods and then trashing these registrations. It is a FACT that the Republicans are the reason the 1964 Civil Rights Act passed. Southern Dems were against it.


Submitted by skyspy on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 11:45am.

They have to pay people off to cheat and vote for their candidate. They knew he wouldn't get elected any other way. Cheating and voter fraud is all they have.

Christian's picture
Submitted by Christian on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 10:05am.

Almost 200,000 suspect registrations in Ohio alone!! The fraud of 2008 will be of historical proportions. Even if only a small percentage of those Ohio registrations were actually fraudulent, we are talking about a massive effort to cook this election - - one where thousands of fake votes in the swing states may very well determine the outcome.

Remember, Florida came down to 500 votes in 2000.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 12:18pm.

There weren't 200,000 suspect registrations in Ohio. This was an old Republican strategy to limit votes just like they do in every election. They were pushing for the "100% match" rule so that if the voter registration said "John Q. Public" and the drivers license said "John Quincy Public" it wasn't a match. Or even if the address was "100 Main St." and the other document said "100 Main Street" it wasn't a match. We see this in every election; Republicans trying to suppress the vote. The difference this time is that the Supreme Court ruled against you.


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:25pm.

JeffC don't worry about your boy he is going to win!! He will have the Senate and the House which Bush did not have the benifit of. Now that all of the "I told you so" will be over, the American public will get to see your boy in action with NO road blocks what so ever. I can't wait to see all of the in house fighting among Democrats for power. Everything should move along pretty fast since all will be on the same page!! You know the Clinton followers and the Obama followers all agreeing to the same tax cuts (hand outs) and how (who) should be getting them. It shouldn't take long to get right out of Iraq!! We should be able to leave them defenseless in no time at all. Who cares, let them defend themselves. Obama did say he was going to get out NOW didn't he. I can't wait to see how fast that happens. I wonder how long it is going to take him to invade POKistan. He did say we were going to go into POKistan right. Who is going to object?? The Republicans can't!! With no one to stop him our economy should be soaring in no time!! He did say he could do that right!! I'm sure since Powell is his military advisor he will buddy up to Iran/N.Korea/Russia with civil discussions and all will be well and world will now respect the U.S. He did say that Iran/Venz/N.Korea were not a threat to us right and who cares about Isreal being wiped off of the map?? Iran is not a threat to us!! He said that right!! Oh yes and who cares about Rich White Men?? His mentor The Rev Wright does not!! He hate them!! Oh and his mentor hates America!! Remember Gd Dm AMERICA!!I'm glad he has all of the answers because the world will be watching your boy!!! God Bless America!!!

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:09pm.

Most of what you say is right, although seems like Bush had his party in power for several years if I'm not mistaken. I hope you'll be as entertained by the D's infighting as I anticipate I will be watching the R's disintegrate. I've never seen it like this so early:

Palin's 'going rogue,' McCain aide says

And especially this one (I particularly like it when the Party pros bring out the long knives):

The Making (and Remaking) of McCain

Yes, "Pokistan" is the correct pronunciation. At least that's the way the natives say it. Amazing that Obama knew that.

It'll take time to get the economy soaring considering the damage done by the R's. However, I'm sure it'll happen. Ironic isn't it that it will happen on Obama's watch and he will reap the credit. But the D's are always better on almost every aspect of the economy all the time. In fact, I'm writing a paper on that. For instance, take all the presidential terms back to Truman and consider them in four year blocks (so that Reagan and Clinton get two, etc.). Average the GNP growth in real terms (constant dollars) of each term. No Democrat has ever gotten as low as the Republican average. No Republican has ever gotten as high as the Democratic average.

It's true.

Here's another factiod, Since Johnson, every Democrat has increased the percentage of revenue more than the percentage of spending.  However in the opposite case, under all five Republican Presidents, since Nixon, the percentage of government revenue has decreased and the percentage of spending has increased.  Cutting taxes does not increase revenue, it only concentrates the nation’s wealth into fewer hands.

How 'bout this: Since 1946, Democratic presidents increased the national debt an average of only 3.2% per year.  The Republican presidents average increase was 9.2% per year. Republican Presidents out borrowed and spent Democratic presidents by a three to one ratio. In other words, for every dollar a Democratic president has raised the national debt in the past 63 years Republican presidents have raised the debt by $2.84

Think R's controlling Congress helps?

At no time since 1945 when Republicans have been in total charge of both elected branches of government have they ever reduced spending.

Obama has certainly got a job to do cleaning up this awful mess but it'll probably happen. Sit back and watch.


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:30pm.

He is not a native of POKistan!! He is an American!! Or is he?? Anyway Americans and the British and the English speaking world pronounce it Pakistan. But why would he care?? He is getting ready to invade POKistan!! Right?? I meam if we don't have Osama by the time he is President he will invade POKistan and get him!! Thats what he said anyway!! The World is watching!!! Go in there and get him!! Just like everything else, it just seems so easy when Obama says it!! I think I'll vote for him after all!! Now when is my check comming?? What could I have been thinking!! To hell with it!! I don't want to pay to live in America!! I think the American Government should pay me to live here!! When am I going to get my check??

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:22pm.

Speaking to the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars in August 2007 Obama said, “I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.”

You seem to be incensed by what I think is a perfectly rational strategy. Is it your position that if we had actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets inside Pakistan we should not act?


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 4:56pm.

I wouldn't announce it for the whole world to hear. How can you expect to tell the Pakistani people what your intentions are and then not expect them to be waiting. If he is going to get the Muslim world to respect him like he stated that he can do then invading Pakistan right in front of all of the world to witness is not going to get you alot of respect from the Muslims as well as the bleeding heart liberals in this country.

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 5:27pm.

I've heard that lame excuse before. We can disagree but IMHO this reason was trotted out because the wisdom of Obama's position is irrefutable and your side had to come up with some way to disagree with it. I've heard the talking points.

The Bush administration has adopted and implemented Obama's position. Who do you think this policy is supposedly being kept secret from? You don't think the people in Pakistan know when they are being bombed? Seriously?

But hey! Let's look at your guy and assess which one is more thoughtful:

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran


hersheybear88's picture
Submitted by hersheybear88 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:40pm.

I also believe that boy will win with all of his deception.
I did still go and vote. I hope others will also.

They brag about their boy but not this guy:

Listen to a history lesson

Some really need a history lesson along with all of the other lib's.

They don't touch this one.

Strange some can't read but they are on here all day reading and posting.

Winby1 do you think I should post only things they can hear?

It's like better to hear you with my dear?Eye-wink

Have a nice day.


carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:26pm.

Referring to Barack Obama as "boy" is unnecessarily disparaging, even for your tag-team.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:24pm.

Calling Obama "boy" is par for the course for these folks...that's one of the least offensive phrases they use. This lack of class and civility probably came from poor parenting.

Whenever these two post lately, I swear I hear banjoes playing in the background.


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:51pm.

Were you not the one wanting to fight someone last week on here?? That is so funny!! Talk about classless. Comming from you that really is an insult!! Hey you wanna fight about it?? HUGH?? DO YA?? I'm cracking up!! Your ridiculous!!

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 5:35pm.

I don't want to fight anybody! I was merely challenging one of the Internet Tough Guys here who like to question the patriotism of those with whom they disagree with.

True to form, these spineless cowards aren't brave enough to make those accusations directly to someone's face. Or else their mothers wouldn't let them borrow the car.


Fred Garvin's picture
Submitted by Fred Garvin on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 8:44am.

Sniff,

I do question the patriotism of anyone that would vote for a socialist. barack obama IS a socialist.

He is so radical in his associations with murdering terrorists and racists, that he wouldn't even be able to pass a standard FBI background check.


Submitted by skyspy on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 6:10pm.

there is a difference.

Maybe.....they have second homes to go to on the weekend. Maybe they have a wide circle of friends family, and hobbies. Umm, basically a life.

A life that doesn't include angry name calling idiots, who are intolerant of anyone who has a difference of opinion. Maybe they don't spend all day on the citizen blogging because they have nothing else to do? Maybe they don't want to meet you people.? Since you all (meaning democrats) sound so pleasant on here I can't imagine that starbucks can hold the crowd.

dawn69's picture
Submitted by dawn69 on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 7:39am.

Good Morning.

Yeah, regarding the coffee house debate club:

1. I worked a 70 hour week last week and come Sat. morning really
just wanted to sleep in. It's the one of the two days that I
don't have to get up before the sun to get the kids ready for
school. Further, time with my children is far more important
to me than time spent with folks that don't like me anyway.

2. I don't like coffee. I just never acquired a taste for the nasty
stuff and if I did like coffee - I wouldn't spend $4.00 for a cup
that is obviously overpriced for the yuppie club (is yuppie still
a word?)

3. There was also no guarantee that the few I would LIKE to meet
would be there (you, main, cyclist, David's mom, armybrat, etc.).

4. A week out from the election, it is unlikely that I will be able
to change the minds of my political opponents. Minds are made up
on both sides and I just don't care to spend energy on an already
decided cause.

Well, there's always next time - by then, I'll probably be unemployed and awaiting my tax refund to buy groceries and health insurance.

Have a great day, skyspy.

Qoute of the day:
"Try to relax and enjoy the crisis." - Ashleigh Brilliant


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 9:24am.

Most people will not change their minds.

Life is too short to waste time. Make every day count.

Have good day.

Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 6:20pm.

Sniffy may have thug tatooed on his neck!! Hey sniffy you don't need to respond I'm outa here and won't be back. I don't really care who you want to beat up!! You don't impress anyone!!

Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 6:01pm.

We got it!! No one wants to cross you!! Calm down!! Your a funny guy sniffy!! Please don't hurt someone!!

hersheybear88's picture
Submitted by hersheybear88 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 6:43pm.

I think someone stuck their foot in their mouth last week with someone that writes for the citizen.

That person would not own up to responsibility of name calling a Pastor and saying they were sorry.

Yes, it was good Cal cleared it up. Cal did not do the name calling.
Someone else did.

It's easy to sit behind a screen a say things and try to act tough.

Well, that tough person never did apologize.

Father Epps is a wonderful person and Pastor. I don't attend his church but my pastor knows him.

I am sure Father Epps forgives this person no matter what. I just think alot of what the person chose to do shows true character.

Father Epps keep up the good work. Some of us appreciate what you write.


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 3:42pm.

Hey sniffles its just like you to insult someones parents!! Talk about no class!! I didn't call Obama a boy but if your just looking to stir up stuff then go ahead.

Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:31pm.

No offense but like always we are walking on egg shells!! It's called a double standard!!

Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:13pm.

Hey Hershy I don't recall ever hearing The Rev Wright say anything about Rich Black Men!! Are they more giving than Rich White Men?? Are they part of America?? Do they get a free pass from his hatred!! Is Obama a Rich Black Man?? I think so. But he is different!! Is he?? Now the Rev Wright (Obamas mentor) who he said he loves is by no means a racist is he?? Anyway Obama also states that his policy is to give more money to education!! Not to reform our educational programs (like McCain said) but to give them MORE money. McCain and I both disagree with that!!!! So I take it that the ONLY reason that Clayton County (for example) is in such bad shape is because they don't have enough money?? If the government would just supply another 10-20 million dollars to Clayton County their SAT's would just jump off of the charts?? Who is going to pay all of this money?? Not 95% of the American population. They are getting checks not paying anything!! Do you see how silly his policies are!! The Obama followers are accusing big business of greed and that is what Obama is running on. Hand outs!! GREED!!!

hersheybear88's picture
Submitted by hersheybear88 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 8:13pm.

Mr. Wright thinks that they are only poor because he only sees the color black.

Mr. Wright should change his name to Mr. Wrong.

I think some on here think they have reached perfection pointing out every little detail on here like if you spell something incorrect or separate a sentence. They do this to distract what the real issue is.

I did expect alot better response with the ever so Excellent Sean Hannity. He nailed it. You tell them Sean!

Also, Martin Luther King, Jr. he was not a Mr. Wrong. Martin had it right.Smiling

Obama does not have a good record with the company he keeps.

Obama wants goverment to run us. That is not what our nation was founded on. Obama wants to tell us what to do and when to do it and how to do it.

Get ready to be taxed, he does not tell us how he is going to accomplish all these things.

If Obama won't help his brother and Sean Hannity will just as long as Obama comes on his show what does that tell you. I don't know if Obama cares for his brother if he doesn't take up Hannity's offer.

It's funny Obama scared of Sean. I know for a fact he will not even get close to Hannity, that is so funny. I have never seen a person running for office that would talk to everyone else but not Hannity. Yep, he's acting like a boy.


Submitted by winby1 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:12pm.

Hey Hershy I don't recall ever hearing The Rev Wright say anything about Rich Black Men!! Are they more giving than Rich White Men?? Are they part of America?? Do they get a free pass from his hatred!! Is Obama a Rich Black Man?? I think so. But he is different!! Is he?? Now the Rev Wright (Obamas mentor) who he said he loves is by no means a racist is he?? Anyway Obama also states that his policy is to give more money to education!! Not to reform our educational programs (like McCain said) but to give them MORE money. McCain and I both disagree with that!!!! So I take it that the ONLY reason that Clayton County (for example) is in such bad shape is because they don't have enough money?? If the government would just supply another 10-20 million dollars to Clayton County their SAT's would just jump off of the charts?? Who is going to pay all of this money?? Not 95% of the American population. They are getting checks not paying anything!! Do you see how silly his policies are!! The Obama followers are accusing big business of greed and that is what Obama is running on. Hand outs!! GREED!!!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:44pm.

Then we can discuss other things such as JeffC's new haircut or Main's new car. Smiling
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 2:34pm.

perhaps a discussion on the merits of having an organically raised, heritage breed turkey, one who has listened to Mozart and Bach while feeding in the open range(until that was over) in lieu of a standard turkey. I don't believe that there is much more than a $125.00 difference in price.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


hersheybear88's picture
Submitted by hersheybear88 on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 1:51pm.

I have a new car.Smiling I love it.

It's good it's already paid for since we don't know what the future holds.

We gave my child the other car. College is on it's way.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sat, 10/25/2008 - 10:22am.

Is it your position that Card nailed it with (as you say) 100% accuracy when he wrote:

"Even though President Bush and his administration never said that Iraq sponsored or was linked to 9/11..."


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:29am.

No matter what the argument, you have to answer with "Yea, but what about George Bush?"

Ok, let's see if this works - George Bush is not a good President, He has made some bad decisions let's even say he lied when he quoted British intelligence on WMD. Happy? Now let's move on (no pun intended).

The discussion is about the liberal forces at play where do-gooder's overcompensate for the bank's redlining of questionable neighborhoods back in the 1970's. Anybody in or around the banking business knows what happened, many predicted the outcome, some (like McCain) tried to rein in the more outrageous efforts of ACORN and Clinton's cabinet in the 90's and we are where we are because of the Dems.

That's what we are really talking about. Realizing that people who have good answers on the subject frequently try to divert attention away from the subject at hand - I put the ball in your court.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 12:00pm.

I wasn't talking about Bush, I was responding to you. You said that Orson Scott Card was 100% accurate. I just wanted clarification that you thought him writing: "Even though President Bush and his administration never said that Iraq sponsored or was linked to 9/11..." was 100% accurate?

Are you going to try to divert attention from my question again?


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:29am.

No matter what the argument, you have to answer with "Yea, but what about George Bush?"

Ok, let's see if this works - George Bush is not a good President, He has made some bad decisions let's even say he lied when he quoted British intelligence on WMD. Happy? Now let's move on (no pun intended).

The discussion is about the liberal forces at play where do-gooder's overcompensate for the bank's redlining of questionable neighborhoods back in the 1970's. Anybody in or around the banking business knows what happened, many predicted the outcome, some (like McCain) tried to rein in the more outrageous efforts of ACORN and Clinton's cabinet in the 90's and we are where we are because of the Dems.

That's what we are really talking about. Realizing that people who have good answers on the subject frequently try to divert attention away from the subject at hand - I put the ball in your court.


Submitted by skyspy on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 11:36am.

Don't confuse them with the facts about Clinton/Reno CRA and NINJA loans. Don't confuse them with the fines they leveled on banks for failure to make risky loans. Don't confuse them with the fact that when you type clinton/reno and CRA into google you pull up 369,000 entries that testify to their incredible mistakes. Clintons HUD secretary in an interview in the New York Times 2 or 3 weeks ago admitted that hindsight being 20/20 what they did was wrong. Please don't make them look at all of those facts.

Plucked from the hinterlands of court documents and news stories I found this gem. It seems little barry was also part of the problem.

Barry helped ACORN sue Citibank forcing it to make loans to risky people. Case Name: Buycks-Roberson v. Citibank Fed. Saving Bank Fair Housing/Lending. Docket Court 94 C4094 (N.D. Ill) FH-IL-0011 State Territory Illinois.

We can't afford to have more democratic financial failure policies. We definitly don't need someone who was part of the problem.

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 10:59am.

You will find that it was definitely not about ACORN suing Citibank forcing it to make loans to risky people. Citibank et. al. were redlining loan applications, that is they were refusing to even consider applications from certain areas. What the plaintiffs won was the right for their loan refusals to be reconsidered by a loan committee instead of a single loan officer providing they could show adequate income and resources which normally would have been sufficient for the loan to have been approved had it not been in a red-lined area.


diva's picture
Submitted by diva on Sun, 10/26/2008 - 7:55am.

Words bounce off me and stick on you!!! You like that? Anyway, no Pres. Bush required in this conversation.

Just a couple of questions: In what way were banks and companies like AIG, Countrywide, Wachovia, and Merrill Lynch FORCED to give loans to unqualified individuals? What penalties would they have faced for denying a loan to some jobless, incomeless, assetless individual (NINJA loans)? And what penalties would these lenders have faced if they had responsibly leveraged these loans with capital?

I'm just trying to understand the process through which liberals forced banks to loan money to unqualified poor folks, bundle the debts, and sell them off like hot potatoes?


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Mon, 10/27/2008 - 4:50am.

Actually skyspy has a great summary of the facts along with some research.
As to the issue of forcing the bad loans to be made and the penalties - that is all on Clinton ad Reno.
The bundling and selling is a combination of greed and subtrafruge by the investment banks and sheer stupidity and lack of due diligence by the buyers. It is sort of like what could happen next week if the smoke and mirrors that is the Obama campaign is not penetrated by actual thinking and working Americans and left up to the layabout Dems who vote for "Change" which they perceive as walking around money in their pocket for the next 2 years.

2 years because that's when the next Congressional election is and if Obama is set loose on this country after next week, he and Pelosi and Reid will damage the country so much that the next mid-term election in 2010 will give the Republicans the House back with 75% and an impeachment scenario.


carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 6:48pm.

blaming the current fiscal mess on loans to low income people and the Democrats is akin to blaming a gunpowder explosion on the guy who made the charcoal.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


Submitted by swac on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 6:26pm.

Wow! jonnycat that was long long winded. Did you have to use over 1600 words to say it's all the Democrats fault.
I could blame it all on Republicans in two word- George Bush.

Submitted by swac on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 6:49pm.

A Quick check about the so called card carrying Democrat, Orson Scott Card, reveals that he voted for George Bush twice and this article has been quoted on the Rush Limbaugh show. That's not my kind of Democrat.
He is primarily a fiction fantasy novelist. That article shows he is also into political and historical fantasy.

DarthDubious's picture
Submitted by DarthDubious on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 6:05pm.

When the Fairness Doctrine was abolished in the Reagan era, honesty and fairness in reporting went out the window.


Submitted by jokerman on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 8:09pm.

You do know that 80-85% of reporters consider themselves to be liberals, don't you? You do know that Limbaugh and Hannity are not reporters, right? The Fairness Doctrine is designed to kill free speech on the radio. Why is their no Fairness Doctrine on broadcast tv news? At least radio talk shows do no PRETEND to be objective like tv news. You can't tell me that Brokaw and Rather weren't libs.

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