More Bailouts from the Guv?

Fri, 09/19/2008 - 5:40pm
By: Cyclist

I hear by Monday, Congress will approve a $25 billion bailout (I'm sorry, an economic stimulus plan) to automakers. The Brits did this and they never recovered from it. Where will this stop?

Detroit Bailout

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Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 10/04/2008 - 8:03am.

having a "friendly" chat.

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Submitted by MacTheKnife on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 5:23pm.
Submitted by skyspy on Sat, 10/04/2008 - 8:40am.

They don't want to look at any of this. Big thanks to Barney Frank, and Bill Clinton.

JMartinez and Cy keep up the good work.

Submitted by boo boo on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:52pm.

As I look at the dates (2003) on these links it was during the time when the Republicans had all the votes and could have passed these bills. The last link if you dig finds that McCain signed onto this bill when it was already dead. The more you dig the more you find out.
The conclusion I find is we have a bunch of Greedy FAT Pigs (Democrats, Republican, friends in high places, banks, Realtors, lobbyist, etc. etc.) that ate at the trough and now we have to pay for what has already been ate. Personally I think all their bank accounts should be confiscated but I guess that would not be democratic. I believe those close to the situation, knew exactly what was going on and are just as guilty as those doing the taking, for not coming forward. Give a person and inch and they take a mile.
As my Father would say a "Sad state of affairs".

Submitted by wheeljc on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 8:05pm.

What a pathetic indictment, and sadly, Congress goes along its 'merry way'! What is also sad, where do you see these facts in the main stream media???? This is a sad state of affairs! Shutter to think of a liberal White House and Legislative Branch with operatives outlined in your sites!! SCARY!!!!!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 6:14pm.

What's your take of the above?
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JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 7:01pm.

I think there is blame on both sides. I posted this:

Fred

The laws governing the massive leveraging can be traced to the amending of the Glass-Steagall in Act in 1995 under Clinton and voted for by all the Republicans and one Democrat.

Then came President Bush's 2003 “American Dream Downpayment Act” followed by “The Zero Down Payment Act of 2004” introduced by Republican Rep. Pat Tiberi of Ohio.

Nobody's hands are clean in this one.

Politically, the argument is that the administration didn't administer any oversight and Congressional Republicans weakened the laws through deregulation. That's a winning argument for Democrats, mainly because the R's have spent a lifetime complaining about the D's government regulation and interference. All that works against the R's now.

If you refer back to my link, catch the analysis from Politics and Critical Thinking at the bottom. It is the best two page summary I've seen and they're fact checking Obama.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 8:39pm.

Thanks!! From what I can see HR 3755 was never passed.

Nonetheless, I'm disappointed with the whole darn bailout thing. Yes it was a very laudable scheme of trying to provide home ownership to everyone; however, we are now looking down the barrel of a very large gun since electing to choose something that "feels good" rather than the hard and cold economic reality that the "bottom-line" brings.

I guess I should have done a better job of deciding who to vote for. I will try not to make that mistake again.

Thanks for the inside skinny!!!
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Submitted by Nitpickers on Mon, 09/29/2008 - 1:51am.

There was never any intention for banks and investment houses and bundlers, and so forth, to encourage local banks to make loans that were not according to ordinary banking loan rules!
Adequate home worth for the loan, and income ability!

The law was to stop "redlining," NO loans in an area regardless of value and income!
How soon we conveniently forget!

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:27pm.

Actually, I'm horrified. Scary stuff, unprecedented. I'm for a non-partisan solution for the country. After that, I'll spin it to make it all the R's fault.

Right now I'm waiting for Sarah Palin to come up with a solution to the underlying economic problems brought on by the increase leverage due to unsecured derivative contracts financed by debt we sold to the Chinese.

HAHAHA.


Submitted by Nitpickers on Mon, 09/29/2008 - 1:53am.

Her answer to that one would be: "I don't know what that is." Just as was her answer to Bush Doctrine!

No wonder Alaska is looked upon as lower than Alabama's hogs and Florida's schools!

Submitted by MYTMITE on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 10:28pm.

You seem to have most of the answers. Why don't you run for office?

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 09/29/2008 - 7:56am.

I only have opinions not answers. The only thing I'd run for is the border!


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:12pm.

I'm so tired of Speaker Pelosi telling the American public that we are going to take care of all those high flying CEO salaires as thought this was the problem. Gees, give us a break lady.
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Submitted by Nitpickers on Mon, 09/29/2008 - 1:55am.

Maybe you think the taxpayers should pay them more for failure?
If there was any other way to stop it, I agree, but greed is good!

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 9:30pm.

You've got to admit that she has more on the ball than Harry Reid. C'mon, you've got to admit that. It's a low bar but you've almost gotta give her that.

(insert stuff Cal won't allow here)

(and here)

(and here)


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 09/29/2008 - 1:18pm.

What can I say other than he's a real fine one. Smiling
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carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 8:54pm.

I want to thank you also. I really appreciate your very insightful information. Now, if only I could understand it. Maybe we can make dumpster diving an Olympic sport.

"I can't wait until tomorrow, because I get more lovable every day."


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 5:49pm.

Thanks!
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Peter Pfeifer's picture
Submitted by Peter Pfeifer on Sun, 09/28/2008 - 5:45pm.

Will even one Democrat acknowledge this? No, the'll just continue on and vote for Obama. Pitiable if they were only hurting themselves but they damage everyone of us and our families.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 9:15pm.

predict if a bailout agreement will be hammered-out tomorrow?

BTW, I see where Washington Mutual tanked and was bought by JP Morgan Chase.
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Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 10:49pm.

For now the "agreement" fell through.

I think in the long run we will be a stronger country if we tell Wall Street to go pound sand. Some companies need to fail.

On the other hand I will have to work until I die.

As a country, as a people we will get through this.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Thu, 09/25/2008 - 10:27pm.

Congress is hearing something like 90 to 1 against, MSNBC, from their constituent's. Some blogs have put it at 300 to 1 against.

But if they, Congress, vote anything like the PTC city council, it will pass 3 to 2.

Thanks Cyndi.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 7:52pm.

Is paid $15,000 a month for almost 3 years for very little work. Yep, I can see where he can understand the plight of the middle class.

Story

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Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 8:43pm.

This says a lot about McCain.

He hired someone to begin moving about the country, eating countless rubber chicken dinners, staying in a dozen different hotels every month, while constantly establishing contacts, staying in touch with the media, keeping up to date on all major issues that would be important to McCain's potential run for The White House for a great price of only $180k per year. Sounds like a bargain to me.

Considering that Barack began his political career and ultimate run for the Presidency at a very young age, I suggest to you that there is some comparisions. While McCain pays a professional consultant to begin his run for the Presidency, Barack was surrounding himself with "unpaid" "community organizers", such as Ayers, Wright, Rezko, and Frank Marshall Davis. One a terrorist, another a racist, the third a criminal financier, and finally an avowed black communist.

So again, what exactly is your point?

-----
Oh, and one more comparison.
While Barack claims his 2002 speech against the War in Iraq was a sign of his character of conviction and judgment, in actuallity, it was a political move on his part to shore up his very liberal base. This immediately propelled him to the 2004 Democratic Convention. He has continued until recently to prove himself very liberal and anti-military.

Instead, while McCain was paying this consult to start his campaign for the last three years, McCain apparently wasn't getting the messages he was sending McCain.(You know McCain probably couldn't figure out how to read the emails he was sending.) Which means, McCain, while planning a run for the White House made dozens of extremely moderate votes and speeches. He was slammed for immigration, comments about torture, about campaign finance, not to mention, buddying up with several very despised members of the DNC. This proves that McCain, while sometimes arrogant and short tempered, still allows his convictions and principles to drive his decisions.

Remember, the President of the United States can not vote Not Present!


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 5:54pm.

So again, what exactly is your point?

I'm venting because our country is on the verge of losing a grasp of itself and the ones that are really going to suffer are those of us that "played" by the rules. Richard, I'm watching my 401K going down the drain and the value of my house spiraling downward. We are paying incredibly high fuel prices because the dollar is not near the value that it used to be. My parents, who are retired, are also watching as their savings evaporate as their investments and home value shrinks. I pray for the future of both my sons but I’m very worried that their standard of living is going to decline.

Do you care to speculate who will pay for the "The Great Sellout of 08"? How about you, me, git, hutch, sniffles, Tug, Jane, Davids mom, Main Stream and rest of our blogging community. The kicker is that according to Secretary Paulson, we have to do this otherwise the pain could be even more. In that case, you, me, git, hutch, sniffles, Tug, Jane, Davids mom, Main Stream and rest of our blogging community are still on the hook.

As for Mr. Williams, he was a lobbyist that headed up a group called the Homeownership Alliance, a Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac advocacy group, which the Wall Street Journal reported (in August 2000) had a website creed of being dedicated to: "exposing and defeating trends that would harm consumer access to the lowest-cost mortgage option." The group viewed as threats those who are "seeking to spread unfounded fears about risks to the housing system." Somehow, I don’t think he had the interest of the middle class in mind.

Richard, I’ll be honest with you. I have done the exercise and overlaid the platforms of both Obama and McCain. I do not like what I have seen.

The forgotten middle class.

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JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 9:50am.

It was not McCain’s campaign that was paying him the $15,000 a month, it was Freddie Mac. And in spite of McCain’s campaign earlier lies about it, the payments continued until August this year when Freddie and Fannie got taken over by the government. Davis’s job was to be close to McCain without any specific task to perform. It was a pure access buy. McCain was sold to Freddie Mac by Davis for $15,000/month.

Richard is right when he says: “This says a lot about McCain.”


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 11:12am.

http://www.johnmccain.com/mccainreport/Read.aspx?guid=74063c9d-7cb5-47c9-acf6-53c0c2d88376

This is McCain's absolute rebuttal to every one of these charges which are absolutely false.

I find it interesting that you highlight this false association as being relevant to McCain, but you shy completely away from all of the infamous associations that Barry is trying to hide. From Marxist, Terrorists, Racists, I see little credibility in your smears.

Otherwise, keep "Moving on".

Is Main Stream related to you, cuz she sure sounds like you two know each other?


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 3:14pm.

The reason this is important Richard is that it appears Rick Davis was bought and paid for solely to provide access to McCain which apparently he did. The issue is relevant because it affects people now because the Republican administration is in the process of nationalizing the economy and sticking us with the bill. It's far, far more damaging that poor ole Obama knowing someone's sister who's cousin knew somebody 20 years ago.

Besides, I bet Davis is lying. He's skipping out from reporters and I expect he'll be resigning very soon. I told you before that this was a stupid tactic by McCain. Particularly after the lies that Phil Gramm had been run off the campaign and McCain's lying about having no knowledge of that woman who destroyed HP having a $42 million golden parachute and laying off 20,000 people.

Rick Davis skips lunch with reporters

McCain Gets 'Boomeranged'

Rick Davis Busted

People who live in eight glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Wed, 09/24/2008 - 10:16am.

Jeff, perhaps Richard Hobbs is still clinging to the fiction that John McCain has some sort of personal integrity (the "2000 model" of McCain, if you will).

In 2008, most people realize that John McCain would rather lose his integrity than an election.

McCain was a P.O.W. ... His honor is M.I.A.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 10:07pm.

Car loans? Ha, that's just from petty cash. It's way worse than you think. You know Phil Gramm, McCain's top economic expert and his probable Treasury Secretary is a lobbyist for UBS right?

They're going to bail out the foreign banks too.

Foreign Banks Hope Bailout Will Be Global


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 6:19am.

I suspect much less than you. I work for a non profit company - an airline.
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JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 10:42am.

If Wilbur and Orville Wright had known how much money there would be in airlines they probably would have set fire to their airplane.


Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:12pm.

I don't get your attitude on this!

Do you have any idea how much money has been made by Delta and other Airline executives and pilots over the last 50 years?

Do you have any idea how much money Banks have made off them?

Do you realize that PTC and other towns here would be nearly naked without all that money?

Don't you see the thousands of execs scampering out of NY toward the Islands with their cash in tow from all those outfits we have bought, you and I?

Hey there is money for everyone except the stockholders!

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:39pm.

I used to be in that last category.

Ouch.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 12:42pm.

every blog has its $. Smiling
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Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 5:19am.

For bailing out the foreign banks!

"They do business here as part of our economy. Where their office is makes no difference in this situation."

In that case we could continue to bail-out Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, and maybe also, Africa!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:44pm.

you, me and the rest of the 'lower middle class' can't buy milk. (Currently at $4.29/gal,)

P.S. Where can I sign up for one of these mortgage loans that the Govt. is willing to write off as a bad investment?

Is there a plan to relieve me of my children's college loans and medical bills too?

My car/insurance payment is a little high as well.

Is Uncle Sugar willing to make a deal there?


diva's picture
Submitted by diva on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 6:37am.

I need it for my personal economy Laughing out loud How about they guarantee every check I write so I can stop balancing my checkbook


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 9:04pm.

I'm sooooo upset I've taken up drinking again. Perhaps when I wake up in the morning this will only be a bad nightmare. Good night all.
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Submitted by jackyldo on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:22pm.

There are 32 words in section 8 of the bailout bill

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

We'll take your money middle class, give it to the rich, and Congress and the Courts can say nothing about it -- if they pass this bill

In short, the so-called "mother of all bailouts," which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People's duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch - who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay, and no fundamental means of holding those who fail to do so accountable.

Is this starting to sound familiar? Robert Kuttner cuts through much of the gloss in an article in today's American Prospect:

The deal proposed by Paulson is nothing short of outrageous. It includes no oversight of his own closed-door operations. It merely gives congressional blessing and funding to what he has already been doing, ad hoc. He plans to retain Wall Street firms as advisors to decide just how to cut deals to value and mop up Wall Street's dubious paper. There are to be no limits on executive compensation for the firms that get relief, and no equity share for the government in exchange for this massive infusion of capital. Both Obama and McCain have opposed the provision denying any judicial review of decisions made by Paulson -- a provision that evokes the Bush administration's suspension of normal constitutional safeguards in its conduct of foreign policy and national security.

Submitted by jackyldo on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 8:27pm.

McClatchy Newspapers also alludes to Section 8 with concern, citing the "unfettered authority" that Paulson would be granted, and noting that the "law also would preclude court review of steps Paulson might take, something Joshua Rosner, managing director of economic researcher Graham Fisher & Co. in New York, said could be used to mask previous illegal activity." Jack Balkin also gives the matter the sort of attention it deserves on his blog, Balkinization.

one cannot overstate this: Section 8 is a singularly transformative sentence of economic policy. It transfers a significant amount of power to the Executive Branch, while walling off any avenue for oversight, and offering no guarantees in return. And if the Democrats end up content with winning a few slight concessions, they risk not putting a stop-payment on the real "blank check" - the one in which they allow the erosion of their own powers.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 6:31pm.

In one expansion of its original proposal, the administration is asking for broad power to buy up virtually any kind of bad asset — including credit card debt or car loans — from any financial institution in the U.S. or abroad in order to stabilize markets.

Story

How do I get voted off this island?

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Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 09/23/2008 - 5:16am.

Don't forget "construction" loans guarantees!
You know, all those houses half finished and sitting there that can't be sold or refinanced?
And, all those strip malls and commercial buildings that are financed with "construction" loans?
Also, some people and small companies have started buying up these foreclosed homes and some older ones to renovate and flip----with "construction loans. They can't "flip" them! Bail them out!

I think the problem is those "construction" loans come ALL due in so many days or months!!!!!!

We failed to have a contract on any loans we have that says the government will pay them if we can't due to the bank problems!
Not so with the hedge crooks who are leaving with multi-millions!

If you want off this Island, Liberia, Haiti, Georgia, Siberia, Cuba, and even Mexico will take you without question if you are American with some cash!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 6:44pm.

What happens to us idots that do without so that we can pay our daily/monthly/yearly obligations?

I know, were S.O.L.!


Submitted by wildcat on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 7:00pm.

Sometimes, the satisfaction of knowing that you're doing the right thing is all you've got!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 7:21pm.

Eat it and keep moving forward is all we can do.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 09/22/2008 - 7:14pm.

and I vented and it felt good!
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Submitted by jmatute on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 9:23pm.

What would happen if 5 families, or 5 million, or 45 million people came to the point where they were financially unable to pay for medical insurance, or their medical bills, or could not even afford to go to the doctor? You suppose if they went walking down the street to the FEDS in Washington D.C. that they would get one dime or the time of day towards financial solvency? Not on your life. That would be socialized medicine, and we can't have any socialism in this country. It's kind of strange that "socialism" to the current administration is only for the wealthy and well-connected.

Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 4:06am.

YOU got it!!!

It is not socialism when only the ones who made the mess are bailed out........it is "good for the country!"

Hypocrites are a dime a dozen in the Baptist Church and the Republicans!

Now the thousands who die and get ill every day with no or little insurance can simply suffer....no bailout of them! This two trillion dollar bailout would have eliminated all health problems!

But the bankers must be saved!

I say fire them all, make the bank stockholders stock wothless, and start over with strict regulation of the money-changers!

One year in jail for everyone of them in decision making processes.

We are in a recession and lucky if a depression doesn't follow anyway due to greed and no compassion.

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 7:48pm.

When will this end? It is looking like just about any entity with a hand extended towards Uncle Sam will be getting a bailout. Every day it is something else, another company teetering, and now an entire industry (auto) is looking at Washington and the taxpayers for help. Will the airline industry be needing a bailout next? Homebuilders? Transportation companies?

Time to start hoarding food and stashing cash in the mattress.

-------
"You can lead a Republican to the truth, but you can't make him think."


Submitted by wildcat on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 9:39am.

So, it sounds as though my friends that are buying generators, guns, and canning their own food aren't so crazy after all.

Submitted by MYTMITE on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 12:22am.

These automakers continued making their gas guzzlers even after knowing what the situation was. Years ago when gas was scarce they started making smaller cars with better milage, once that scare was over they went right ahead making them bigger and bigger and inferior in quality to imports. Between that and their exorbitant salaries for upper management and their golden parachutes they dug their own
graves.

I have been careful with my money--bought houses, cars, etc I could afford. If I couldn't afford something I did without it. Why do I and others like me who lived within their means have to bail out people who spent what they didn't have? Why should we bail out greedy lenders who knew people couldn't pay those mortgages, and why should we bail out automakers. When any of these entities were making gigantic profits were they made to share with us? Of course not,stupid idea right? --so why should we be called upon to clean up their messes?

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 6:29am.

I'm afraid the world as we have know it is going to change. Doing the right thing and being wise with your money no longer has any merit or value.

According to Bloomberg, Henry Paulson is sending a financial-rescue plan worth about $800 billion to Congress as Democrats prepare to turn it into a vehicle to help people with high-cost mortgages stay in their homes.

Bloomberg Story

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Submitted by Nitpickers on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 7:11am.

Only ones I now know who are being bailed out are the BANKS and their owners and stockholders---the very ones who created the mess!

Bank stockholders now won't lose everything and will have the buy-out tax money to start the same stuff again!

Congress may try to alter the trillion dollar bill (or maybe two trillion)so that SOME people can stay in their homes---certainly not those who have already been foreclosed.

I suspect only the high wage earners who bought 500 thousand and up to two million property will be mostly the ones who can stay with a new mortgage at low interest! Don't know about the second and third mortgages!

Why would they give those not yet foreclosed a loan who can't pay for what they have? Just as they did before?
They won't, of course!

You know better!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 7:20am.

I don't know other than Bloomberg's story stated "to help people with high-cost mortgages stay in their homes." I guess one can try to split hairs and argue if it is "direct" or "indirect" aid.

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Submitted by Bonkers on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 4:17am.

I suppose you were for the bankers bail-out?
How about the airlines?
Just trying to see where you are!

Submitted by boo boo on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 11:32pm.

I'll say hoard food, our money after the bailouts won't be worth much. Where can we buy a little Gold or is it a little too late for even that. My MOM in-law always said, if you can't use greenbacks at least with gold you can buy a little food. I still know how to pluck chickens, don't much care for ringing necks though, poor things. I sure could ring a bunch of other necks, if I could get my old fingers our their corrupt necks. Now that we are a Socialist Country do you think we can have health care?

Submitted by skyspy on Sat, 09/20/2008 - 5:22am.

Gold is a very good investment right now. Here is a site I use.

www.blanchardonline.com to place an order, they will call you after to confirm your order.

Submitted by Bonkers on Fri, 09/19/2008 - 6:18pm.

Why must you cons continue to cover for that Administration bunch?

They get it into such a condition where Depression is imminent, then blame congress for doing exactly what they are asked to do by the administration---that is blackmail!

Yes Autos, then Airlines, then we will take over big oil just for a control of prices!

There are certain raw material conglomerates who will be after that.

Total Socialism just to survive!

Who are we going to sell all this trash to anyway?

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