“and as Michelle Obama's jokingly stated, that having children is okay, even outside of wedlock...
But also, the lack of shame seems to permeate the leaders in your community as well. Shameful behavior should not be tolerated, instead it seems to be welcomed as excusable because blacks are victims and are entitled to act without remorse.”

The words of Richard Hobbs

"Sick~ Having children is okay, as long as my tax dollars are not being used to keep them up. Even outside of wedlock? Ask the kid how he/she feels about that. Or better yet, ask their juvenile justice probation officer."

The words of Kimberly in PTC

"our conviction is that birth and adoption are the purview of married heterosexual couples" the lovely words of James Dobson

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Submitted by Sick of Fascists on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:03pm.

Unfortunately I don't guess there is any fixing of your attitude.

kimberlyinptc's picture
Submitted by kimberlyinptc on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:32pm.

Dear Sicko Fascist,
I'm sorry my attitude has offended you, in the future I will try to be more like the bright ray of sunshine that you have always been. ((gagging))

kimberlyinptc's picture
Submitted by kimberlyinptc on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 10:08pm.

Look A hole, if you're going to all the trouble to quote something I wrote, at least spell my name correctly. And BTW, the meaning of hypocrisy: noun, plural -sies. 1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess. I, for one, have never asserted that I possess morals, religious beliefs or principles! You just assume I'm a conservative because I didn't agree with something you said...typical knee JERK reaction.

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 10:50am.

I'm mad now. Really mad. And I'm mad at Sarah Palin for accepting the VP spot knowing that her teenage daughter would be thrust into the spotlight and judged by the entire world. The fact that she would put her own political aspirations first, ahead of her daughter's highly personal and tragic situation, makes me angry. Shame on her.

This choice is angering women on so many levels. Not only does it look like a political gimmick but it calls into question Sarah Palin's own judgment for knowingly exposing her own daughter to the shame, ridicule, jokes, and outrage on both sides of the political aisle, the country and even the international media now. Plus, it calls into question Sarah Palin's parenting skills regarding the education of her own children about the dangers of pre-marital sex and disease. Palin is becoming a poster-parent for what NOT to do when it comes to adolescent sex education.

This was such a bad decision on McCain's part and his judgment is so flawed. If he knew up front that 17 yr. old Bristol Palin was pregnant, he should have realized the firestorm this was going to cause. What part of his anatomy was he thinking with by choosing Sarah Palin? There were so many other, more qualified and less controversial, choices he could have tapped for VP. McCain has really lost his way.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 3:30pm.

I watched Campbell Brown on CNN pressing this argument on a McCain aide. When I was not distracted from staring at Campbell, I was trying to figure out why anyone thinks this is a cogent argument.

How's this supposed to go? Given the fact that her daughter was pregnant, Palin was irresponsible (and perhaps worse) for having accepted the invite to fill the VP slot because she should have realized how it would turn the daughter into a sort of political football to be kicked around.

First, as a general rule, I'm not sure it is a sound principle that would have one steer a course determined by the indiscretions of one's children. Al Gore's son had several run-ins with the law, and I know about Al Gore's son only because Al rose to prominence. Else, he would just be another kid who likes to smoke pot. Should Al have run for cover to keep his son out of the press? (And should President Carter try to fly under the radar just because he has a son with a blogging addiction?) Smiling

Second, isn't it easy to imagine a scenario in which one is offered a high profile position and sincerely believes that it is his/her duty to accept? In that event, given the worries in the family, the order of the day would be damage control. I suspect the Palin family is engaged in that as I write.

But mainly, so far as I can tell, the argument really goes like this:

"Palin should have known that PEOPLE LIKE ME would make a BIG, STINKING DEAL out of this, and so she is irresponsible and a bad mother for making it possible for PEOPLE LIKE ME to subject her daughter to all of this scrutiny and criticism because PEOPLE LIKE ME are outraged and will cause the daughter a lot of embarrassment."

The daughter is in the limelight only because of opportunistic opponents of Palin and what she stands for who see this as a chink in her armor. It is a problem, with potential embarrassment, etc. for the girl, only so long as the people who suppose it to be a problem make it a problem.

At the other end of the spectrum, Evangelicals seem to see something heroic in a decision to brave the firestorm for the sake of staying true to the family's values. Fully anticipating that this news would be pounced upon like scraps thrown to wild dogs, this girl and her family did the right thing and allowed the whole thing to go public.

I just don't see the trouble.


Jeeves to the Rescue

Submitted by Nitpickers on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 4:37pm.

There are very few people on the face of the earth who wish to punish the Palin daughter for not demanding that a condom be used.

There are a bunch of people though who do not want her Mother to be Vice-President! Even some who say that the Mother was also pregnant when she married the part Eskimo Indian, Mr. Palin.

You are correct that letting the information out is much better than aborting the baby or secretly having it and putting it up for adoption---ands easy baby to put out for adoption as long as it is healthy.

I assume that you mean that there is no trouble with what I just said for a person running for Vice-President to have? There certainly is trouble because she elected to run for the office with that over her head--that and a suspicious rendering of a speech and trip just before her early birthing of her baby recently.

Are we to assume then that most any moral sin, even recent ones, and especially for hypocrites such as she and her daughter, are perfectly OK for high public servants and no vote should change under these circumstances?

I suppose so since Mr. Craig is still in office and that other dude who supervised pages is not in jail, to my knowledge.

I am not talking about our public officials having to have high morals necessarily, that is up to the voters providing they know the facts, and in that case I think it was stupid of McCain and those supporting Ms. Palin for the office. Unless there is a true conspiracy, as Jeff seems to indicate.
It will not garner any more votes, I think, hockey Mom of five, or small town mayor! Most of our women are pretty smart--they have kids, too.
Her preaching of high morals (for others), teaching evolution purely, never was any dinosaurs, no abortion in any cases, for everyone having an AK-47 who wants one (if not a felon, yet), and becoming a Governor---heck a professional fake wrestler did that! We have a dough-dough here in Georgia!

Submitted by USArmybrat on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 4:37pm.

Thank you for a very thoughtful and clear post on this subject. You said it well. The postings on this over the week-end have been ridiculous and hypocritical, to say the least.

Submitted by Nitpickers on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 4:40pm.

I may have cleared it up a little more in my note to muddle!

Submitted by USArmybrat on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:12pm.

Ummm, nooo!

Submitted by MYTMITE on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:26pm.

He was beginning to make sense. You on the other hand, post the most confusing, coonvoluted blather found anywhere. And what is it about Mr. Palin being Eskimo bothering you? You have mentioned it over and over. Little racism there?

Submitted by MYTMITE on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:26pm.

He was beginning to make sense. You on the other hand, post the most confusing, coonvoluted blather found anywhere. And what is it about Mr. Palin being Eskimo that bothers you? You have mentioned it over and over. Little racism there?

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 4:24pm.

How's your wife, is she back home now?

I yam what I yam....Popeye

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:33am.

Palin was vetted by the Council for National Policy, (Tony Perkins, James Dobson, Grover Norquist, Tim LaHaye and Paul Weyrich).

They met in Minneapolis during the Democratic National Convention and selected Palin.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 2:57pm.

NRA members, Flat tax proponents, Heritage foundation founders and members, Reagan buddies, preachers of 10,000 year old earth---all of these guys you mention as the ones who "selected" Ms. Palin as VP.

I ask if you are sure they "selected." or "recommended" her?

Critical difference there!

Even Communists believe that the masses can be drugged sufficiently with religion to be able to control them!

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 12:25pm.

"Up until midweek last week, some 48 to 72 hours before Mr. McCain introduced Ms. Palin at a Friday rally in Dayton, Ohio, Mr. McCain was still holding out the hope that he could choose a good friend, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut, a Republican close to the campaign said. Mr. McCain had also been interested in another favorite, former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania.

But both men favor abortion rights, anathema to the Christian conservatives who make up a crucial base of the Republican Party. As word leaked out that Mr. McCain was seriously considering the men, the campaign was bombarded by outrage from influential conservatives who predicted an explosive floor fight at the convention and vowed rejection of Mr. Ridge or Mr. Lieberman by the delegates." (9/2/08 NYTimes)

JeffC, you're right. It appears that the 'Council for National Policy' had a major role in tapping Sarah Palin as VP, and McCain had no choice but to bow to the social conservatives and evangelical fringe. These are scary times we are living in. The Republican party has definitely been hijacked by the lunatic fringe.



Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 12:46pm.

Aren't they about ready to close their doors? Main, you might as well be quoting Wikipedia. I think it has a more reliable accuracy record than the NY Times. Eye-wink

Fact is that Drudge had reported several months ago that Palin was being seriously considered. All I can remember is that it was some conservative chick governor from Alaska.

Speaking of "lunatic fringes".... have you seen some of your allies protesting the RNC? Smiling

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 2:41pm.

All I can say Git, is you'd better fight harder to take back your party. The neocon's and religious wackjobs have taken over the GOP.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:43am.


Submitted by MYTMITE on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:17am.

the particulars. How do we know it is a shot-gun wedding? Can anyone honestly say that this would not have happened if this girl had received sex-education? If this is the case, why are there so many pregnancies in schools where sex-education is taught? How do we know that the young daughter did not urge her mother to continue with her candidacy?

Seems like I remember a Georgia mother in the national media because of her stand against homosexuality--feels it is a choice. I am sure this mother passed this on to her daughter as she was growing up--yet her daughter is a lesbian who is out of the closet. So much for motherly influence. This mother chose to turn her back on her daughter. Palin chose to stand behind her daughter and help her. Some may feel there should not be a marriage. That is not the public's decision to make. Some people get married at 17 because they have to and the marriage lasts for years and years. Some people get married at 25 or thirty because they chose to and their marriages last for months. No one can predict the future. I feel all of you on this site with the 'holier than thou' attitude better rethink that attitude. No one can ever predict what their child will do. We can only teach them what we think is right and hope they take it to heart. There are no guarantees and anyone who thinks there are, are fools. Stop being so judgemental. And by the way, I am pro-choice, though I hate the idea of abortion--I think the decision should be left to the individual.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 3:04pm.

I don't think it will be a "shotgun" wedding by Palin's daughter to the Johnson fellow, because it was a barter situation.

He now will get to run the fishing boat and snowmobile in all the races!
Maybe sleep in the Lincoln bedroom! Turn the White House guest room (where Churchill stayed) into a nursery for his child and for Bristol's baby brother.

Submitted by MYTMITE on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:47pm.

You just keep showing just how asinine you can be. Last time I looked the Vice President and family did not live in any part of the White House. Do you have inside information we don't have? And were you party to the barter? Your snide remarks about the fishing boats and snowmobiles, Eskimo references, etc continue to show your true racist colors. Why don't you go back to discussing the merits of riding mowers where you showed a modicum of intelligence?

Submitted by USArmybrat on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:32pm.

I don't think that the Vice-President lives in the White House!

jonnycat's picture
Submitted by jonnycat on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 11:15am.

You have got to be kidding. And you are soooo perfect,right? You left wing idiots make me laugh. I also kinda doubt that this is "angering women on so many levels either." Speaking for youself is fine but I know plenty of women that are encouraged by her. We'll see what the polls say in another week or so. And another thing you putz, you have been ,for about 24 hours, a part of the problem with the jokes and ridicule. Again, you like to dish it out don't you? You are definately a hyprocite in the most pure sense of the word. Not surprised though, but you are a sad testiment to the democratic party. Enjoy your miserable day keeping up with gossip. I will wait with glee for yet another hypocrical post.

DragNet's picture
Submitted by DragNet on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:06pm.

So jonny the cat, you calling mainstream mad? Then what are you?
According to the evangelical right, the fact is that Bristol Palin has commmitted the sin of fornication most probably because condoms are taboo at the Palins household, and the consequences are perfect to make evidence of the hypocritical attitudes of the "more perfect than thou" evangelicals. Sarah Palin is no different than Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and the gay-loving pastor from Colorado who talk fundamentalism but walk a different path. Onced exposed you hear all kinds of justifying arguments ("we all are humans", "nobody is perfect", "they deserve understanding", etc, etc). McCain's campaign is defending the indefensible, he thought he would be appeasing the evangelicals with Palin's selection, only to find it now difficult to explain this mishap. They better check on Sarah Palin twice, she's a bombshell VP candidate and there might be something in her past....

jonnycat, you asked for it, you got it: another hypocritical (right spelling) post.

Making you think twice......

Submitted by hanlonk3 on Tue, 09/02/2008 - 5:25pm.

Why should the fact that Sarah Palin's daughter made a mistake mean she can't pursue a career in politics at the national level? Just because Evangelical leaders aren't stoning the child and her mother doesn't make them hypocrites. We should all strive to live upstanding moral lives but when we do fail there should be someone there to pick us up and help us move forward. Just because a parent believes in certain standards and passes those on to their children doesn't mean the child will not exercise their free will and make choices that the parent disagrees with. This doesn't mean the parent is a hypocrite to still hold to those values and beliefs. It doesn't mean the parent is wrong to show unconditional love and forgiveness to that child. Heck, driving a car off a bridge in Chappaquiddick, swimming to safety while the girl in the car died, not calling the authorities until the next day when her body was discovered didn't stop Ted Kennedy from being able to make a life long career in the Senate that even included a run for the White House. I say with all the indignation and flurry over this side story the other side must really feel intimidated by the McCain-Palin ticket.

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