PTC to consider trash franchise Tues. night

Mon, 08/11/2008 - 1:26pm
By: The Citizen

The possibility of enacting a trash franchise in Peachtree City, giving exclusive rights to one trash collection company, will be kicked around Tuesday night at City Hall.

The City Council will be presented with detailed information city staff has compiled in studying the matter. The goal of such a move would be to cut down on the amount of trash truck traffic and also offer a savings for local residents.

Critics of such a plan say the current free market system works best and shouldn't be tampered with. City residents are served by three trash collection companies currently.

The workshop on the matter begins at 6:30 p.m. Council is also slated to discuss a consultant's report on city-wide impact fees, which are used to pay for expanded city services generated to accommodate new developments.

login to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Submitted by fluffybear on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:12pm.

I am new to Peachtree City and shortly after moving here, I had the opportunity to speak with the manager with one of the rubbish companies currently serving the area and he told me that if I were able to get all 53 homes in our sub-division to go with his company that he could provide us the service for far less (about $15.00 less) then he currently is charging.
I have counted as many as 4 different companies coming down my street on Tuesdays from as early as 6:30 to as late as 4:00pm. That does not include the recyclable trucks that come on the street on various days. That is a total of 8 trucks each and every week. I'm 100% in favor of cutting that down to just 1 or 2 trucks.

The last city I lived in had contracted trash service and we were only paying $22 per quarter for 100-gallon container each week. The company also had free recycling pick-up each week as well (unlike here where you pay as much as $20.00 per quarter so they can make money on your recyclables).

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:20am.

Free Market enterprise and competition have in the past worked to lower prices and increase customer service. "If we don't take care of our customers, the other guy will." When more choices are available competition drives the cost (to the consumer) down. When left with one "choice" we are forced to bend to the whim of that company/vendor.

Let's take a look at past government dis-involvement:
1. More phone companies = more choice and better prices
2. Deregulation of the airlines = more choices and better prices.
3. Cable/Internet/Satellite providers = more choices and better prices.
4. Three trash companies = more choices and better prices.

The argument regarding hydraulic fluid and increased damage to the streets due to heavy truck traffic doesn't fly. If my trash is picked up once a week by a city truck or an Environmental Partners truck theimpact is the same. If the government get a hold of trash services, will we be told that they will only pick up once every two weeks, or once a month?

I say keep the choices, keep the prices down. We have seen what government involvement in any industry can do. And, it appears that another vendor/contractor has its sights on PTC to be the gullible, "sign away everything" city that we have become.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:41pm.

I'll assume you've had to pay to have a few city blocks re-grinded after a 50 gallon hydraulic spill and consider the $15,000 cost inconsequential. Bob Hilton, the guru of municipal RFPs, says the heavy use damage does fly. He created it.

Ever see a garbage truck pull down a gas station's overhang or drag a lady thirty feet? I have.

As Tony Soprano rightly said, the hauling business is a different corporate culture. Residents in San Jose, California, reduced their monthly garbage bill from the high 20s to $4 per month after the city decided to put a franchaise contract out to bid. It's just the way that particular industry works. Franchaise contracts mean lower prices and better service for residential customers.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 12:56pm.

Three garbage trucks rumble through our neighborhood, clanking and leaking every week. Only one of them stop at my house!
I hadn't heard that city trucks may do the job! I doubt they want the responsibility!

May I ask you then if you would like all door to door salesmen to be allowed to come by your door? Not just the ones who buy the expensive license? Isn't that free enterprise?

One company bids a price every few years---and so do others. That holds down the price and keeps the quality. Could be the bid fee is too high but that is easy to change!

Just as our town employees don't want to manage a youth center, neither do they want the responsibility of running garbage trucks, you needn't worry about that one!

They also don't want to manage a Tennis Center or an Amphitheater or an Airport...but it costs us millions just the same. Is the Bank paid yet?

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 1:17pm.

You're comments and logic are hard to figure out. So, you're saying that there would only be one truck rolling through your neighborhood if we went to a "city system"? Wouldn't the same number of trucks be needed to haul away the same amount of trash generated, regardless of who the provider was? One truck to do the work of three? Is it your opinion that you are the only consumer generating garbage in your neighborhood, and the rest of the trash is just miracled away?
Yes, garbage trucks are loud, but it's one of those things we have to live with. I guess in your world, trash in the streets is OK.

Likening the senario to door to door salesmen is...I don't know...weird. Door to door salesmen are intrusive, where as marketing tools such as fliers in the mail, newspaper, TV ads, internet and word of mouth do the best advertising. It's not like they're selling Rainbow Vaccuums.

As Forrest Gump once said:

“That's all I have to say about that.”

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 1:34pm.

Your logic is vacant!!!
Yes. the town would have many trash trucks but only ONE would be needed for my neighborhood! It would hold our neighborhood's trash.
Other trucks in other neighborhoods! WOW.
There are also at least six days a week that trash can be picked up but in different neighborhoods! I hope you aren't asked to resolve Delta's problems? Or the banks'
My point about salesmen was that if we can have all the trash trucks we want why not salesmen? WOW!

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:04pm.

So, why didn't you say that before? One truck would not work in my neighborhood of 350-400 homes. Again, for our application, it would not matter if it were one city vehicle, driving through the neighborhood, everyday. Or, three different vendors driving thorugh our neighborhood on different days, throughout the week.

I don't want to solve Delta's problems, or the banks for that matter. The banks greed and moronic borrowers did that to themselves. Delta can figure out business on their own. Their problem lays with an archaic business model (pre-deregulation).I am content with solving my companies problems, or lack thereof (most of which have been solved because I'm here). Nice try Bonk-a-do...didn't work.

Your last statement still doesn't compute. Trash truck versus salesmen. WOW!

Come on Bonkers, give capitalism a chance.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:10pm.

Are you saying that one truck would not hold all the trash on your street? That is one trashy street.

I realize you are just pulling dollar's chain on this, but you aren't even making as much sense as him (and that's saying a LOT). Smiling

Like I said earlier, I'm not for or against this per say, but you would notice less trash trucks on YOUR street. Unless all your neighbors use the same service now, which I seriously doubt.

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 5:12pm.

This person doesn't know anything about nothing. I gave up discussing it with them.
There is no imagination nor logic there to argue with!

They are set on "free enterprise."

They would like to have two or more sewer systems and lines, I suppose!

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:45pm.

37 lbs per can average
58,500 lb total GVW class 7 trucks capable of hauling 9 tons legally. Under ideal conditions (equipment and geography), 45 seconds per house is used. It's a bit unrealistic, but "possible".

(The ideal number where available time and available compartment space converge is around 500 homes per route, depending on equipment.)

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:29pm.

No Spy. It's not a long street, just a large neighborhood. You and I agree that recycling is a good idea. Heck! We agree on a lot of points. My point is such that I don't want government to dictate what should be a consumer choice. Would you be happy if there were one provider for your phone services, TV, carpet cleaning etc, because PTC said so? Customer service, better yet, customer satisfaction would disappear. There would be no room to move away from one vendor due to length of contracts and legal stipulations.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:00pm.

Most would consider "trash" to be an essential thing. Not so much with tv and carpet cleaning. I've even gotten rid of my home phone number.

Like I said earlier, and others on here have said, I have lived where this was done, and service was better in many ways. I see nothing wrong with looking at a few bids and SEE if in fact it is much cheaper and BETTER.

One more thing, I'm NOT Skyspy, I'm a smarter version. Smiling

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:47pm.

It supposed to provide grants for cities and municipalities for recycling services. More details at

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:54pm.

I had occasion to spend time with Derrick Williams of Georgia EPD recently and asked him about this. He didn't know about the RFP or the proposed facility. He doesn't necessarily need to know, as recycling plants aren't permitted, but there you have it.

Submitted by skyspy on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:14pm.

Ok for you.

Have a good day.

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:20pm.

Just joking around. Smiling

Bring on the rain...

Submitted by skyspy on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:47pm.

I know.

You are right bring on the rain. My trees need all the help they can get. Have a good night. I'm traveling over to your old stomping ground for dinner with friends in McDonough square.

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 4:21pm.

I wonder if they are still open.

Every time I get back over that way, it's changed. It makes me appreciate what we have here even more.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:12pm.

I had a quick case of cranial-rectal inversion.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 11:32am.

I've lived in areas with both. Free Market trash and Govt controlled trash.

There are good arguments on both sides. I've never heard of once every two weeks pickup, much less once a month. I do know less trucks would be on the streets because of only one provider. I see at least 3 companies up and down my street weekly. That was always the plus for areas I've lived in with "govt trash" pickup. Just less trucks.

I do think more could be done on the recycling end by the providers.

Some good points were made below that I had not thought about (regarding possible roll-offs, etc(. I know my bill has gone a good bit lately with "added" fuel charges, but we are all seeing that on many things.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 12:02pm.

I have lived in areas, here and California, that include recycling as part of the services provided. The waste disposal providers in Peachtree City do not. Let me restate, they charge extra for recycling services, whereas others do not. I find it hard to comprehend charging a customer additional fees for something that the customer can make money from. Is it a convenience fee? Is there not enough capacity? Would they operate at a loss, even though they generate revenue from it? Hard to say not being in the business.

I'm not a global warming nut. Global warming happens every year. It's called summer. However, I do think that recycling should be provided FOC by the current waste companies, as is done in other cities and states. Conservatism (socially & fiscally) at its finest.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 2:48pm.

Isn't profitable. You had a recycling option in California because of AB939, which required all cities to divert 50% of waste from landfills. But it wasn't, and isn't profitable.

carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 7:14pm.

I believe that in the far off future that our present landfills will be "mined" to retrieve the metals and plastics that we have been filling them with. What a great amount of speculation they will have as to just why we did what we did! I can only speculate that their conclusion will be that we suffered from a collective craziness.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:10pm.

Thanks Elvis for clearing that up. Like I said, I'm not in the business.

Just a couple more questions, and I'll leave it alone. What if the city, and or it's citizens become disatisfied with the services provided? How long would it take to renegotiate a new contract with a different vendor? What implications would befall the city should they default on said contract? Have you seen any instances where this has happened? Not an argument, I would like to see where past attempts have failed and why.


“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Submitted by Bonkers on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 4:52pm.

So, I'll answer these questions for you:

If the city became dissatisfied_____About three years!
If the citizens became dissatisfied_______sixteen years.

The befalled city would have caniptions not implications upon a fault!
Whether you "said" it or not!

Yeah, I saw a befall once. There was a big argument and it failed.
Why? Cause!
You are welcome!

The dinosaurs were all killed due to republican votes by cave men.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 9:00am.

Bonkers, until you get your permanent rubber room please attempt to make a coherent statement. I was asking legitimate questions, regarding a serious matter that will affect all of Peachtree City. I was asking those questions to everyone on the post, and not just Elvis. It seems as if he has interest in this “deal”, and he seems to have a decent background in the field. I was asking the questions that should be asked.

So, if you are just on here to cause hate and discontent with every post, I (and many others) will simply ignore your insane rants. That is, until you sign on as another user.
Over time we will again figure out who you are, and toy with you until we grow tiresome of your nonsense. And the cycle begins again.

The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. See Bonkers

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Submitted by Bonkers on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:13pm.

You were not asking legitimate questions!!!!

That is why I made it a further farce!

Your questions were like:

I know we have had several wars since 7000 years before time, but could someone recap them all for me and tell me how they came out? Who won them all and what did it cost them? I want to know!

Hey, you just run off a garbage company if they screw up!!! This ain't California or NYC.

JAFO 72's picture
Submitted by JAFO 72 on Wed, 08/13/2008 - 1:42pm.

Now go stir someone elses pot. Run along now, there's adults talking here.

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 3:37pm.

The city has the option to levy sizeable fines on the contractor for various reasons. The contract is for a specified period. Should the contractor provide flawless service, the city would probably agree to extend the contract. Should they not, the city would exercise its option to put it out to RFP.

The City of Vallejo fined me $11,000 once for a trivial matter. It was rather tough to explain to my boss. Getting an unbudgeted – and avoidable – check for 11k cut tends to draw attention in a corporate environment. I myself made sure it never happened again. That meant keeping all the citizens happy happy happy.

My only real gripe with the PTC RFP is that the fines for performance issues are only $100 each. They could just as easily have made it $1,000. All of the bidders would still have bid.

The only defaults I've heard of were for reasons other than performance (RICO, anyone?).

Remember, whomever wins this contract will make a pile of money on commercial and industrial accounts. Part of the cost of doing business and making that pile is keeping you, me and the city council happy happy happy

Submitted by jmatute on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 10:58pm.

The city should go on record that it is responsible for the sanitation services necessary to provide for the orderly and expeditious collection and recycle services for its citizens

* The above services can either be provided by city employees, or be outsourced to a vendor.
* If vendor services are selected, the city would provide active and hands-on oversight to ensure service standards.
* A vendor would provide services for a timed service period (suggest two or three years) renewable in an open bidding process with other bidders after each time period.
* The vendor would provide a performance bond that would be posted and from which any infractions or failure to provide services standard would be drawn by fines.
* In exchange for providing the bond and being subject to monetary fines, the city would grant the vendor exclusive rights to the operate in the city for the period of the contracted service.

The above is a nutshell overview of my input. My opinion is that this method would:

* Eliminate excessive heavy vehicle traffic over our neighborhood streets.
* Provide an avenue of recourse when services are not up to standard.
* Provide the community a standard of services and fees which are predictable, consistent, and regulated.
* Would give vendors a solid base upon which to build their business model for operations and bidding purposes.

Currently, there is too much waste in fuel, unnecessary traffic on our community streets, with resulting hydraulic fluid and damage to asphalt pavement. Opposition to this type of service suggests that freedom of choice should prevail, and that government can't run things right. Well, government can run things right if you elect the people who can do it right. The waste of resources with multiple vendors makes recycling unprofitable and freedom of choice is another name for permitting sub-standard service with no oversight. I would ask those who are concerned about the waste and inconsistency of our current system to at least give this single-service provider with a performance bond for a specified contract period a try.

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:11am.

Have you read the city's RFP?

I've never seen a performance bond posted in advance upon which a municipality can draw funds to cover fines. Levying fines is actually quite rare and indicative of a big breakdown.

Haulers with franchaise contracts usually operate at a loss for residential service. The low price keeps the residents happy and allows the hauler to have exclusive rights to the lucrative commercial and industrial business -- with the exception of recyclables and C&D materials, which are often kept open.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 6:44pm.

OK class, government created and sanctioned monopolies are bad, mmmmkay?

If PTC wants to get into the trash business, this is an excellent way to do so. When the government takes away the customer's first right of redress of TAKING THEIR BUSINESS ELSEWHERE when they are unsatisfied for whatever reason, that means they call the City gov and complain about their consumer dissatisfaction. They have every right to call frequently and expect the city staff to fix service and billing issues because the City took away all the competition and created a monopoly. So, sanitation becomes the city's problem yet the gov doesn't get the revenue that goes along with the hassles of being de facto customer service for a private, for-profit company.

This is a terrible idea regardless of the minimal impact of roads, traffic and noise. You don't fix inconveniences like the above three items by having the government decide who is the sole provider and oh yeah, you the resident will save a minuscule amount by being forced to have your trash picked up by our sanctioned company. Of course, the city will have to add a staff member to do nothing but handle complaints from customers who are still unsatisfied after dealing with the sanitation company, but hey, your government at work!

If you want to deal with the inconveniences mentioned above, the city can do it without creating a monopoly.

Is it any wonder that some sanitation were mob-run at one time? Now, the government wants to play the mob role.

Submitted by PTC Observer on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 8:58pm.

Couldn't agree with you more, the government is a monopoly. In fact, all monopoly is created by government. The government can't run anything well and never has, no competiton.

BTY, the mob controlled trash because they had the politicans in their pockets.

Clear thinking on your part.

Submitted by Dondol on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 4:24pm.

I can see it now, just like the cable company, no competition means lousy service and the price will increase every year. I have C&l right now and they have given us great service. Doesn't the city have better things to do with our money than to spend it on city staff conducting studies on trash service (But I guess its OK if that's what Cindy wants). Spend some of that money on cutting the grass along the cart paths.

Submitted by Spyglass on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:59am.

This doesn't even count "over the air" which would make for 4 choices.

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 8:44pm.

Franchaise contracts are the holy grail of the industry. Companies that win such contracts bend over backwards to prevent the contract from ever going out to bid again. Cities usually build in language for things such as donated roll off boxes for something like a cart path clean up, minimum requirements for responses to complaints, etc. Bidders to the RFP will submit a $20,000 fee just to throw their hat into the ring. That and the franchaise fees will more than cover the time city staff spent using pre-existing cut-and-paste municipal solid waste RFP templates (and they did a decent job).

Sadly, as you suggest, none of that applies to cable.

Submitted by Dondol on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 9:18pm.

of these contracts, Hmmm. Do you happen to work for one of the companies that are trying to get this to go to Contract. I do not like the Government telling me that I only have one choice, the one that they made for me. Especially not Otis Campbell.

Evil Elvis's picture
Submitted by Evil Elvis on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 8:03am.

I'm not currently employed by any of the bidding companies. The RFP is available for perusal on the PTC city government website, which is where I read the details. In another life, I bled both green and gold all over a couple of large municipal RFPs. The city did a good job on the RFP -- not great but good.

Submitted by PTC Observer on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 8:50pm.

as long as there are performance requirements during the contract period. For example, a customer complaint ratio below a certain level, or no missed trash pick-up days. Contract violations would mean an automatic out for the city at it's discretion.

Submitted by Spyglass on Mon, 08/11/2008 - 3:16pm.

Is it good or bad? Who knows? But it is loud, especially on Wednesday Mornings in my neighborhood. Smiling

Submitted by eaglejim on Tue, 08/12/2008 - 5:49pm.

They are UPS, Fed EX,and postal,that is a lot of trucks why does PTC put up with that?Just get 1 delivery service.(LOL) Been saying it for years Welcome TO Little Russia. Jim

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.