It's really no problem. People leave significant portions off of arguments often to further their views. No worries. Anyway, what you were going to type before you got distracted by the doorbell was:

"There are also those amongst us who only point out the color of a suspect when they are black. You won't see these folks comment on the race of a white perp even if the crime is physical abuse of children or murder. This leaves the impression that to some, fighting crime isn't the ultimate motive, but rather stoking the flames of racial unrest. This is a sad state of affairs, and hopefully President Obama will commission a panel to attack this racial divide head on."

One big hammer dude, should you further need my services, I will be available for you on a pro bono basis, as I feel this is somewhat of a public service.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

maybe your comment does lead me somewhere else.

True, there are many that don't mention the color of a suspects skin when commenting. But maybe there is a reason for that. See there are these two things, one is called a Majority (that's us caucasion folks) and the other is a Minority (that's African Americans, Asians, Latinos, American Indian, Middle Easterners etc...). When speaking to the masses if the suspect is in the Majority, then not mentioning his race infers that he is caucasion. To accurately identify the suspect outside that majority, one must use skin color or some other unique descriptor.

This is a sad state of affairs, and hopefully President Obama will commission a panel to attack this racial divide head on.

As intelligent as you obviously are Hack, statements such as the one above, really make me wonder. I am sad to say that you are probably correct in your statement of "President Obama". He may be elected, not because he is the best choice, but because there is a multitude of people out there, you included, that will vote for him no matter what.
You will vote for him, because of your complete and utter disdain for President Bush and the Republicans. Others will vote for him because of some unidentified "change" that he promises. MANY others will vote for him just because he's a (partially)black man.

This commission you speak of, will it only attack the racial divide as blacks see it?

I was hoping to have this conversation. On racial descriptions, you say that we can "assume" in the absence of a racial description, that the perp is white? Really? We should not consider that 1) A description may not have been available? 2) A description may have been overlooked?

I believe this logic is at the heart of the GOP's problem. It is non logic-based logic. But to your more prescient point on presidential politics:

"He may be elected, not because he is the best choice, but because there is a multitude of people out there, you included, that will vote for him no matter what.
You will vote for him, because of your complete and utter disdain for President Bush and the Republicans. Others will vote for him because of some unidentified "change" that he promises. MANY others will vote for him just because he's a (partially)black man."

1bighammer, let's go at it head to head (so to speek), peen to peen. I believe I can make the case easily that Barack Obama is the best candidate running for president in 2008. I'll even start a separate blog for you t chime in on.

Foreign Policy

John McCain talked yesterday of the situation on the Iraq/Pakistan border. Please reference a world map if you do not see the error in that statement.

John McCain did not realize the troop levels in Iraq are still above pre-surge levels.

John McCain voted against enhancements to the GI Bill, that serves our troops and retired veterans.

John McCain stated three separate times that Iranians (shiites) were training sunni Al Qaeda insurgents (?????)

We'll cover domestic and energy policy on my blog. See you there buddy.

Hack

Both Obama and McCain are getting tired already!

I heard Obama today say "on the Iraq and Iraq border."

I’m going to vote for him because he was right about the Iraq war and said so when the vast majority of people were against his position. He was right about engaging Iran two years before the Bush administration decided to pursue that policy. He was right about engaging North Korea three years before the Bush administration decided to pursue that position. (after vehement criticism of Madeline Albright meeting her NK counterpart, Condoleezza Rice will do the same this week in Singapore). Obama was right 16 months ago when he called for more troops to be sent to Afghanistan, a policy that the Bush administration and McCain are slowly coming around to. He was also right in laying down a withdrawal schedule for Iraq and now even Bush is calling for a “time horizon”, the crucial first step in embracing Obama’s position.

On the other hand, McCain has been and continues to be on the wrong side of all of these issues. Not only that, but unlike the administration which can change and enact Obama’s ideas, McCain is trapped by the political process which won’t allow him to change positions without harsh condemnation as a flip-flopper and McCain would rather continue to be wrong than endure that.

Furthermore, McCain’s gaffes, like his comments about the Iraq/Pakistan border and his continued confusion about Sunnis and Shias do not inspire much confidence that he has a firm grasp on geo-political issues which are supposed to be his strong point.

Obama has been consistently right about the most important issues and is clearly the best choice.

Yes Obama says he was against the Iraq War...but then again he didn't have a vote on it did he? He didn't see the same intel that all the other's saw before they voted for it (see Hillary Clinton, John Kerry,etc...), then changed their minds when it was convenient for them.

When did we engage Iran? Or North Korea?

If NATO would do their Job in Afghanistan instead of being paper dolls there, the need for more US troops would not exist.

The myth that Bush hasn't discussed a withdrawl is just that,a myth.

What of Obama's Ideas will be enacted? The $40 billion dollars of taxpayers money handed over to people who didn't earn it? The higher taxes he is going to impose to pay for that? The pacify the terrorists so they'll leave us alone policy?

Which one of those is good for America?

As far as McCain gaffes,he didn't know Pakistan didn't border Iraq, big deal. At least he knows how many States he'd be President of, unlike Obama.
May 2008 - "It is wonderful to be back in Oregon," Obama said. "Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."

You'd think if you wanted to be President of a country, you'd at least know the basics about it!

JeffC...your lineage doesn't make you the best judge of who the best President would be.

I will quickly be out of you and Jeff's way so you can continue, but I've got two cents to share...

"If NATO would do their Job in Afghanistan instead of being paper dolls there, the need for more US troops would not exist."

Hammer, this was never NATO's job. This was our job, and we sub-contracted it out just as we have subcontracted security, food service, and infrastructure out to contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan. That was a lapse in our leadership's judgment.

You stated: "As far as McCain gaffes,he didn't know Pakistan didn't border Iraq, big deal. At least he knows how many States he'd be President of, unlike Obama."

Tell me, friend. What is potentially more damaging to our country, a President who thinks there are a few extra states or a president who doesn't understand there is a country called IRAN that lies between Iraq and Pakistan? How does that look when the mis-speaker claims to be an expert on foreign policy?

As a side note, I have thought invading Iraq was a bad idea since before we went in. I didn't have a senate vote either. I made that judgment based on the same factors George HW Bush used in 1991. It was true then. It is true now.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

We argue here and holler at everybody all the time and think everything is so serious. Somebody misspeaks about 57 states another misspeaks about the Iraq/Pakistan border... Then I get an email telling me that a good friend, Steven Shoob, a reporter for WTOC in Savannah, was covering a traffic accident on I-95 this morning and got struck by a car and killed. He was 58, a grandfather.

Damn.

Hug your wife and kids.

When we lose someone close to us, and drop everything else to contemplate what is really important, we become geniuses, for a little while.

Yes Obama was against the war. He probably didn’t see the twisted intel reports that the administration fabricated and misrepresented to get support for the war. On the other hand, he makes a strong case that he understood the ramifications better than a majority of the people. Here are some excerpts from that famous speech:

“I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.”

“Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity…. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.”

“I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.”

“You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda…”

Good stuff. Prescient. All absolutely correct; and this was in 2002, before the invasion. Here’s the whole speech:

Barack Obama's Iraq Speech

“When did we engage Iran? Or North Korea?”

Here are some news articles about the administrations talks with Iran, something they vowed they would not do without Iran first meeting their preconditions:

A New Openness to Talks With That ‘Axis of Evil’

State Dept. Talks With Iran, N. Korea Look Like Obama Policy

Remember the Axis of Evil?

U.S. Talks With Iran Exemplify Bush's New Approaches

Here are some articles about engaging North Korea:

Ministers' Meeting on North Korea

Rice in Singapore for N.Korea talks

Rice to press North Korean envoy on nukes

Rice set to meet North Korean envoy in Singapore

Spokesman: Rice to meet DPRK FM

Here are some articles about the new Bush administrations “Time Horizon” for withdrawing from Iraq:

Bush Offers "Time Horizons" for an Iraq Withdrawal

U.S. Agrees To Iraq "Time Horizons"

Bush's foreign policy shift

A coherent path out of Iraq

Bush agrees to time 'horizon' on Iraq troop cuts

You can try to spin this however you want, the fact is that Obama has been right and that both the Bush administration and the McCain people are adapting to his views. And I believe that he will be able to make a very, very strong case to the American people that this is exactly what has been happening. The ads are going to be killer.

You’re right about the 57 states thing though. I think he was counting some states from Mexico in anticipation of McCain’s immigration amnesty bill passing.

Jeff, This guy has not been in the Senate long enough to have made a decision regarding the beginning of the Iraq war. He did not even assume office until January 2005 (state legislature between 1997 and 2004). I pulled it from the same link you posted. As a matter of fact he was campaigning for Illinois State Senate during 2003.

What exactly does a "community organizer" do?

“Every time you vote Democrat God kills a kitten.”

You are speaking rationally. Politically, the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld "experience" has seriously deflated that argument, particularly since Obama can point out all the times he has been right and Bush/McCain have slowly come to embrace positions he laid out years ago.

Not that I think we won't hear a serious discussion about "experience" before its over, nor am I saying that its not a valid point. I'm saying it has lost a lot of its impact.

The last President we had from Illinois had even less experience than Obama.

"The man was described as a black male ..." I don't know why my noticing that a disproportionately large number of crime stories have this phrase in the body of the write-up is racist. It sounds like a developing trend to me ... one that shouldn't be shunned and ignored, but taken as a societal fact concerning this type of crime perpetrator. If he was described as a person with a horn growing out of his forehead, would the rhino-friendly contingent be offended? It's just a description ... get over yourselves.

How do we use this information on the "disproportionately large" number of blacks committing crimes? What is the answer? Do we just keep restating the problem and then tell people to get over themselves?

Kevin "Hack" King

Who knows? I just use the information for my, and my Families, own good. You do the same when a dog approaches you. You judge by the breed and your prior knowledge as to how the dog "probably" will react. If it is a Black Lab, you probably think it will be wanting to lick you, if it is a Pit Bull, you are probably much more leery of the dogs intentions. It's just human nature.

Stereotypes are not just dreamed up. They are created for a reason.

Can you say that without being considered a racist?

I will never, ever, ever be alone in a room with a priest again.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

To be alone with a man of Religion. In my humble opinion.

Where were you for the hit and run golf cart bandits? There were actually injuries there.

Kevin "Hack" King

While, what the idiots on the golf path did was foolish, irresponsible and I would imagine illegal, it can not equate with someone with a weapon (though I am sure you can argue that a golf cart can be a weapon). As bad as it is, what happened on the golf path seems to be some kids that thought they were being funny-they certainly need an attitude adjustment and possibly a visit to the old fashioned 'tool shed'or even a visit to juvenile court. As to your other question about the seeming escalating number of crimes by blacks and what to do about it. That is a hard one. One of the sad things I see is that in so many homes there is a breakdown in family structure. When we have young men looking up to rapper "thugs" and seeing them wearing all the bling, making millions singing about killing, hating cops or people in authority, they want to emulate them. The same for sports figures, they make millions, and while there are some that are excellent role models, there are many who are not. As a whole, the family structure is not what it had been in this country. Then too, we have too much Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton types jumping in on some situations before knowing all the facts. If only they would do something to help solve the problem instead of blaming society or "whitey" when a young black man goes astray. We have too few Bill Cosby types telling them to help themselves, to show pride in themselves. Being poor, or fatherless is no reason for someone to feel they have the right to jeopardize or take someone else's property or life. All the programs we have in place now do not seem to help. We have free breakfast programs, free lunch programs, free after school care. free health care, etc. Yet, if these children go home to a mother and/or father who does not know how to parent or are on drugs, etc, all the social programs in the world are not going to help. On the other hand, there are some single mothers or fathers who have pulled themselves up by the bootstraps and been there as role models and overcame every obstacle to make sure their child got the best life possible. I know this can be done, because I was a single mother (divorced) from a father who did not care or help financially or emotionally. I raised my four children to know right from wrong, to know they were to respect teachers, police etc. They knew if they got in trouble that what they got at home would be worse than what school, etc. could dole out--no, I didn't beat them with straps, etc., but they were made to do what was right. And I did it without outside help, no welfare, no food stamps, no free meals, etc. It can be done. Today, my children are grown, some with grown children of their own (which they have raised the same way) and they continually thank me for their upbringing. It was hard, but hearing them say "Mom,thank God you taught us right from wrong and how to rely on ourselves." makes it all worth while. Today, too many people expect the government to be their be-all, to provide everything in life. This is so wrong.

I was speaking of the Thomas Crossroads robbery attempt. The weapon he had was a note. Here is an excerpt from the article in this paper:

"The man was believed to be traveling on foot after flashing a note at the bank teller. The man received no money and was not believed to be armed, representatives said."

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

I thought you were talking about the other two robberies.
When I first read that article I thought that man must have failed Bank Robbery 101 or else was very desperate. He may have scared a few tellers for a short period of time but that was probably all. How in the world did he expect to get away if he had succeeded in getting money? They said he just walked away. Would be interested in knowing that whole story. Then too, I just remembered when those idiot "Barbie Bandits" did their "robbery" they described them as white but I think that was more because those girls and that situation was so idiotic.

Even a weaponless bank robber is most likely more danger to society as a whole than foolish teens on golf carts. My logic was flawed. Of course, my opinion would sway depending on whether my daughter was the bank teller or golf cart victim. At any rate, I don't know what is malfunctioning in the minds of these criminals who have recently discovered Fayette County. Other than slowing the growth down here, we are going to have to raise the cost of doing criminal business in Fayco.

Cheers, mate,

Kevin "Hack" King

You are right we do need to "raise the cost of doing criminal buisness in Fayette County"

The last time I had talked to you I had just started the book Merel's Door. The author Ted Kerasote discusses many things. One of them dealing with research on how to curb bad behavior. He takes one social study of humans and transforms it to use while training his dog. The one study he sited (and he lists all of his references) talks about using strong punishment to reduce recidivism. The author of the study was explaining (for kids) why spanking works and "time out" usually doesn't help for very long.

That is why Fayette County used to be feared by criminals. They knew they would get the strongest sentence even if they were first offenders.

I'm done with the book if you want to borrow it. For us dog lovers it is very entertaining, and true to life.

we are going to have to raise the cost of doing criminal business in Fayco.

I think we'll see this slogan again from people seeking the job of DA here or elsewhere:)

Well said. "Raise the cost of doing criminal business in Fayette".

A very well put statement!

then we have a totally different outlook on things. One was actually a robbery, the other was someone running off the cart path, and claiming kids ran them off the path. For the life of me, they don't equate.

Now you are saying the girls on the golf cart just made stuff up? This is your post from the golf cart blog:

"I should have said that in my original post. Sounds like she ran into some boys who obviously didn't know when to stop pushing the issue. I hope you are successful in catching the guilty party/parties."

So, which is it? I believe that if a person is concerned about pointing out the ethnicity of a perpatrator, they should be consistent. That is my only concern. And if a group of kids ran my children into a tree and injured them, in my mind, they would be on my most wanted list, and I would consider their behavior criminal.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

I know I would want to believe my Child. I felt bad for him. He has had a loss, and I hope they are caught, IF they are out there.

I think it was fairly obvious that the kids she described were white. What is the point?

Are you saying that blacks/whites in this area commit crimes in direct proportion to their percent of the population? If so, I have ocean front property to sell you in Moultrie, Georgia.

That black males are committing or attempting to commit crimes. If some one attempting or committing a crime is on the loose, I would think the color of his/her skin would be important. I certainly could identify someone from this description : black male, 25-30 yrs old, 6'tall, wearing a pink shirt, black pants and white tennis shoes rather than this one: Male wearing pink shirt, black pants and white tennis shoes. Gives a little more to go on doesn't it?

Blah blah blah blah WHITE CHILD MOLESTORS blah blah blah blah RACIST FAYETTE COUNTY blah blah blah "THESE" PEOPLE??? blah blah blah blah WHITE COLLAR CRIME blah blah blah

No, no pattern there....I haven't read about any criminals wearing a pink shirt before.

Black men are really "hacking" me off!!! It's as if they are pulling these stupid stunts on purpose just to put the rest of us under neighborhood surveillance. Very , very frustrating. I don't know what the root cause is.... broken homes, drug habits, economic distress, but I am all out of answers as to how we stem this, other than doubling the amount of law enforcement. I don't even think crooks on ice will deter these doughnut-stealing idiot criminals, but I do think we have to adjust our law enforcement strategies here to try and curb this surge of idiots.

Don't tell anyone I said this though.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

As far as the descriptions of criminals in the paper:

It seems like the suspects who happen to be black almost always get away,(so a description is needed) and the criminals who are white are almost always in custody( ie no description needed). I think it means the white criminals are dumber and get caught more quickly.

What other conclusion can we come to?

I don't think there will be an easy answer for reducing crime, although strong sentencing will help. I think we as a society of all people of all colors need to come together and let the criminals know that they are neither wanted for needed. The only way for this to work is for everyone of every race work together, otherwise the criminals got us where they want us.

Worldwide, the predominate race of criminals is the human race. Of these, the predominate genetic marker is male. Of these, the predominate trait is young. Of these, the predominate situation is economically disadvantaged, by birth, nurture, and educational opportunities. I cannot say that I know what it is like to be black in America, but I have a taste for stereotypes, being of Italian-American descent, what with all the nonsense about the mafia. In Italy at this time, they are having problems with a group of people named Romas, who are caucasian, and the talk there is identical to what we hear about our black population.
I have my own take on racial profiling. I worked in a downtown building in a southern city. The mix of offices was eclectic, with the USPS having a few floors and the state government with a floor. I sat on a bench at the back entrance every morning and conducted the following experiment: I would say "Good Morning" to just about everyone who walked by me. White people ignored me 99.9% of the time. Black people returned my greeting 95% of the time. Therefore, I was able to accurately predict who would return my greeting, based on their skin color.