1. Some people do tend to foget that they are making ccomments about real, living, breathing people with families. That is terribly unfortunate.

2. "Well, OK, lets do that. Let's elect three more HaddixSturbaum clones and tell every developer that owns every piece of land in PTC already zoned for building - NO MORE, WERE DONE, PTC IS CLOSED FOR BUSINESS and see where we are in a few short years."

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Let's finally back up our complaining words and elect people who know what a LAND USE PLAN and CONTROLLED GROWTH are. Up to now we've been beating our heads against a wall waiting for our headaches to subside. Doesn't make much sense or cents. We all moved here for a reason; and that reason wasn't because we loved being able to drive one mile and encounter five traffic signals, three open trenches, and bloated road kill.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Has it ever occurred to any of you that if the original developers and leaders of PTC had any intention of this place being a truly "planned city" that roads 54 and 74 would have had a by-pass built around PTC long ago?

If you didn't live here you could keep going without exiting!

Of course they knew the crappy areas could be developed for business along those two roads---knew it long ago.

There went "planned" out the door.

Your statements about Doug Sturbaum and myself are misrepresentations.
1. We are not closing PTC for business. We support Smart Growth, not build it and they will come, which has proven a failure.
2. I am working with DAPC to attract good paying employers to PTC to fill our empty homes and retail spaces and eliminate some commuting to Atlanta.
3. No one is denying Wieland the right to build per his land zoning. So, no lawsuits are viable.
4. This land is zoned industrial, not residential. That allows building institutional and office without going before Council at all.
5. He can build nothing Multi-Family without a rezoning even with the Moratorium lifted. So, obviously those voting to lift are also looking to rezone.
6. We currently have over 5 years of home inventory in PTC. We don't need to increase that number, especially when the projected housing turn around time is now 7-8 years.
7. No grounds for lawsuits because they are asking for changes from what they are zoned to build. No legal obligation to grant that.
8. Why do you think this was zoned industrial? Look at the rail location to begin. And note the rail traffic will be increasing, along with the rail switching noise from the side rails, which will be added to by CSX once Kia opens. This will bring complaints and lower values.
9. Jobs first, then homes once our inventory is reduced.

Most certainly if you believe the three who support this direction for Wilksmoor are correct you have the right to support them.

Anyone wishing more clarity on where Doug Sturbuam and I stand on issues, please use the link in my sig. And please feel free to ask us on current issues and our plans for the next few years.

Thank you for your patience.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

You are right on with all of your points - except maybe the one about a 5-year supply of housing. That's not actually true (you have to segment the market before you analyze it) unless you think all houses and all price ranges are the same. Just leave that stuff to the pros.

Anyway, you are mostly right in what you say, but I really think you and your buddy need to stop fighting the inevitable approval and start focusing on what goodies you can grab from the developer. Ever since Jim Williams was run off by our worst mayor ever, the city has failed miserably at extracting extras from developers and builders. A a result cart path maintenance and other visible city services have suffered. Get with the program and put you hands deep into Wieland's pockets.

And for God's sake, don't say stupid things like this in public:

"There's just no justification for lifting the moratorium except to allow more homes for John Wieland to make a profit off of," Haddix said.

It is ok to think it, but saying makes you sound like a closet liberal suffering from wealth envy. Don't talk about Wieland's money or his profits - just go get some of them for the city. That is actually your job - to raise revenue for the city. Wieland is used to paying for extra stuff - just ask for it.

And even though it offends the English majors, I (as you) feel that prepositions are perfectly acceptable things to end sentences with.

establishments: Drinks are on me. I'll be the bald guy with the goofy grin. As a disclaimer, I am not 6'4" and 240# as some have mistakenly thought. Please oh please talk some sense into your fellow council members. It is as if we've stepped over the edge of a crevace and are sliding endlessly down. And we know what's going to happen at the bottom; it's called Tara Blvd and North Hwy 85. Thanks for representing us in the way we actually wish to be represented!

Cheers!

Kevin "Hack" King

I'm curious, how does water fit into the equation when deciding to allow more housing?
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For those in favor it didn't factor in at all.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

several of us suspected that.
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Don,

You said...

"We currently have over 5 years of home inventory in PTC. We don't need to increase that number, especially when the projected housing turn around time is now 7-8 years."

Will you explain to us the source of the 5 year inventory number?

Those numbers came from some friends in the realty, housing industry and an individual within a different branch of government. None of which will go public due to their jobs. But they all agree.

Last years numbers given was 5.2 years of housing with a 22 year retail inventory. None for office. Both of which have grown since then.

In May of 2007 Coweta County had over a vacancy rate of over 20%. One of the highest in the Metro area and growing with more being built since, without even including Fischers Crossings million sq'. That was from an retail online magazine.

Some on Council supporting more building in both arenas do not accept these numbers, do not care or both. I have had the realities of Coweta denied and claims there is no problem there, in fact they are gaining tax income, while also admitting Coweta is raising their millage rate a mill a year on average, every year.

The negative impact of homes, especially empty homes, and empty retail plus the negative impact of even occupied Big Boxes and Big Shopping Centers warnings Doug Sturbuam and I have repeatedly given are going unheeded.

You SEEM to make money when a city is building such construction. But when you reach build out ceasing to get those new one time fees and the catching up of the impact of infrastructure and service costs now results in a negative net on the budget, a reality even stated in our budget overview this year. That is what all the research confirms and why you read of cities doing redevelopment moving to Village and Downtown configurations. Those work.

The Village was the model of the past, what PTC was founded to be and is the foundation for our Comprehensive Plan. But it isn't being followed now.

An additional 3rd view on Council is based more on aesthetic appeal. Does it look good and personal taste, bigger versus smaller, in example.

Hope that helps in understanding the three conflicting views coming from Council

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

I don't care who you are, that's funny right there.

What a source for research from our Councilman.

I'm not for multi-family on this site, but I don't see it being a workable industrial/office site either. I see some need for compromise here.

"Last years numbers given was 5.2 years of housing with a 22 year retail inventory..."

That seems impossible, given the nation's inventory stands at around 9 months. Please provide concrete evidence of these claims. Friend's opinions don't count.

I count 298 homes listed for sale(in PTC) in the Georgia Multiple Listing Service as of today. There are certainly more, as the system doesn't account for by owner sellers, but I can hardly see how those numbers correlate to a 5 year inventory of unsold homes.

Your claims seem a little off-the-cuff to me and I prefer my councilman to do better research before making these types of statements. I respect the direction your trying to go, I just disagree with you.

The national inventory is average only. Many areas have much longer time frames with some having developers and owners walking away from their properties, even from past supposed affluent areas. The picture is still declining and is projected to do so for 7-8 more years as is the economic down turn projected to continue for at least another 2 years, probably longer.

In other areas Wieland Homes are discounting their unsold homes $30 to over 100,000 per home.

Fayette County stats on homes was flat in 2007 with a continued declining market. Homes have lost an average of 14% value. BOE reported a loss of 248 students.

As for PTC in 2007 we had a 3.85% vacancy rate on approximately 11,313 homes, which number is actually higher now. That is 436 homes just in PTC. Do not forget about the rest of the County or Coweta, which most assuredly impact our housing market.

Here are some homes in foreclosure sale alone, which does not include those foreclosed but not yet on the market, going on the block or on the brink of foreclosure.

The 3.85% is now higher, so the 5.2 is higher as well.

There is no incentive for commuters to move here as they did before with the price of gas and such. That is why I am working with the DAPC to get employers here to fill those homes.

So, no, my claims are not off the cuff. They have been well thought out and discussed with others.

Another developer, and friend, has frozen his land for at least 5 years because the market is not there and building more empty homes is not his goal.

We can agree to disagree but you have to ask yourself where the market is to sell these existing homes and what justification there is to build more. Things have changed a lot in the last few years.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

Those stats are all well and good. They don't paint any picture at all. Even at your numbers, we still have a low number of homes for sale. But you still haven't shown me how you equate a "3.85% vacancy rate" to a 5 year standing inventory. And how do you know the number is higher for 2008?

Look, I know the market is bad. I'm not arguing that point. As an elected official, I expect you to be able to tell me EXACTLY how you came up with such an alarming number. Talking to friends doesn't qualify. What is your metric? You are against any more commercial or residential building, I get that. I just don't like it when information which is suspect is used to further an argument. I don't believe for a minute we have the inventory numbers as you state. I can't verify them because, so far, no metric exists to measure your claims.

Certainly not every home for sale is listed in the MLS, however, most homes for sale in south metro Atlanta are listed there, and it serves for a good guage of the available homes for sale.

I know they are higher because of reports for our County and City numbers, planning, permits and other such people. Across the board the numbers are bad.

I said housing is flat per official government numbers from Fayette County. That means the inventory has not reduced at all for a whole year. In fact the numbers are now showing worse. That means until the economy turns around it is not going to get better. And with the economy at least two years out for turn around and it taking a norm of around 5 more years after the economy recovers for the housing industry to recover any way you look at it housing is in trouble for the next 5 years minimum.

The MLS is not a good gauge because it fails to account for the full range of housing issues. It only deals with units actually for sale at the moment via a real estate agent who is a member of MLS, which not all are nor do all list every unit for sale.

Obviously we do not agree and I do not know what else I can say on this matter that would change your mind from seemingly supporting lifting the Moratorium. I do not support it.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

My beef with you has nothing to do with the moratorium. As far as your politics go, you and I have nothing in common. However, I won't take cheap shots at you like others on these blogs, I will debate politely and correct what I believe to be inaccurate information.

Housing inventory is measured in months, not years. The number of houses for sale at any given time is going to fluctuate greatly. Number of homes on the market is only one part of the equation. Even during the boom years, there were, at any given time, 200 to 400 homes on the market, they just sold quicker. Going back one year from today, 464 homes sold in PTC, with an average time on the market of 83 days (2 months and 23 days.) There were 221 expired listings, which stayed on the market an average of 171 days (5 months and 21 days) before the listing was either taken off the market or relisted. These are the most recent statistics and I believe are accurate.

I think you should post accurate numbers. Your "5 year inventory" statement is nothing more than pure speculation. As an elected official, when stating numbers as alarming as this, you should be dead on. Otherwise, you're fearmongering. You, nor anyone else, knows how long it will take this market to turn. Housing is in trouble, but PTC is not even remotely as bad you are trying to make it look to support your argument.

Not all real estate agents put their listings in the GA MULTIPLE LISTING. I have no idea the actual number of homes for sale. I do know I have several friends who have had their homes up for sale well over a year and have cut their asking prices drastically and still no buyers. And these are homes that would have been snapped up right away several years ago. Take a Sunday drive sometime soon and go through several subdivisions and see all the FOR SALE signs then multiply this by the number of subdivisions in PTC. It is scary. Very often, if prospective buyers go into an area and see multiple homes for sale they begin to wonder if there is not some reason for so many people selling and are leery of buying--this hurts everyone.

Do you think no one ever moves out and sells their home?

My 100 home neighborhood has hardly anyone who was here originally and some homes have turned several times!

Anyway our population increases in Fayette and particularly PTC, have decreased enormously for the future.

There is somewhat of a need out of town and even out of Fayette County, nearby.
As far as commercial---as long as banks loan shady developers and dentists money for commercial building they will build!

And you have never thrown around the MORATORIUM idea either. In fact wasn't that a cornerstone of you election.
You know I don't think I've seem Doug Sturbaum since the election. Does he ever speak for himself or are you guys truly attached at the hip?

Yes, I did propose a Moratorium on Retail during a time of retail glut and bad economy, that has gotten worse, to fix flawed ordinances. Sadly it was defeated 2-3 and we ended up with CCD approved with a SUP (now in trouble), Walgreens approved in a location the citizens did not want and one LUC given, again unwanted, especially by some neighbors, that could have been avoided by correcting the ordinance during the Moratorium to give the extra landscaping protection to neighboring businesses Councilwoman Plunkett wanted without having to allow even more construction in a segment of the economy enjoying less than a 40% occupancy rate.

We have flawed ordinances that have created problems in PTC that are being worked on.

Some problems have already been avoided by changes, which brought in one business that otherwise would not have been allowed.

We do not need to loose more lawsuits due to governance by personal opinion as has been the pattern in the past. Plus, was a stated reason for loosing the Hyde lawsuit.

We need to codify the Comprehensive Plan, which has been violated many times, and get standards in place that are consistent and enforceable.

As for Doug Sturbuam, he is quite active and working on issues, such as chairing the ACC Task Force.

It is a misconception developers have superior rights because they buy land to develop. They do not nor are they guaranteed a profit. It is called capital risk for a very good reason.

Again, you are entitled to your opinions and I believe I have addressed your key points against me. So I do not believe there is anything else I can add.

The floor is yours and your fellow bloggers.

Thanks for listening to me.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

I really do respect all the hard work you do along with the rest of the council. It truly can be a thankless job.
Its always good to have balance in any organization.

It can be fun at times. Indeed.

I agree balance is good. Talking and listening to the citizens is an asset in that arena and why I set up the site in my sig. Doug Sturbaum and I want to be as available as possible. City email and the PTC site are not sufficient for that in our opinion.

In fact, we are thinking about the two of us doing a Town Hall meeting, somewhere and time after the County election finishes.

One thing I do not want to be criticized for is availability. Disagreement on ideas cannot be avoided. Communications can.

Any opinions on that from the bloggers?

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

If it got enough publicity to have a good group there.

Just to follow up with an answer.

I ran this by a large number of individuals and some groups. What I was told was basically for Doug and I to just keep doing what we are doing. No need for a town hall.

Together and apart we have talked to a good number of individuals and some groups, upon request. Usually at a coffee/soda sit downs. That seems to be the desired formula and we will stick with it, at least for now.

So, just let people who ask know we are available. Just contact us.

Thanks for the interest.

Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

will we also be getting a trailer park? If so, I feel we will open the door once again to other things we do not want, including more trailer parks. It seems that each time we do this and say it is an isolated incident, later it comes back to bite us---well, we did it before--can't refuse, etc.

I answered that question here.
Don Haddix
PTC Councilman
Post 1
donhaddix.com

Crying out in the wilderness we now call Peachtree City with the run-away developers. Thank you for explaining to Yellowjax much better than I could have ever done. We do have to let developers use their land--we do not have to let them do what they want to with it when it goes against our rules and regulations. Why is this so hard for some people to understand? What is this hold developers have over so many of our residents (and three council members) that they feel they have to capitulate to their every whim? As a community,we need to get a backbone and learn how to say no and tell our council members that they are there for the good of the community and not developers. Again, thanks for doing the right thing.

No one is planning to "take out" council members. You take yourself much too seriously. What you should be worried about are council members who are always willing to change our Master Plan and allow developers to constantly change numbers, committments etc. No one objects to developers using their land as indicated. What we object to is them cramming in more and more homes/apts/townhouses. We are in a water crisis, we cannot water our lawns, wash our cars, etc, but we should allow developers to continue to expand the number of homes etc., on their land? So, Weiland will donate land for a school, where is the money coming from to build that school? Land is only the beginning. There is the building of the school, upkeep, teachers' salaries etc. Same with other amenities. Weiland cannot sell the homes he has built in other areas. He is offering thousands and thousands of dollars of incentives. When these homes, townhomes, apts are empty and there are no residents to pay state, local or federal taxes, we will still be hurting. Other communities seem to be able to say "no" to the extreme wants of developers without lawsuits--why would we be sued for sticking to our plans and rules already in place? No one is denying or wanting to deny anyone their rights--we would just like to retain some rights as residents of our community.

Get a grip? Maybe.
Take myself too seriously - never.
I just can't get by the fact that you seemed to get such a chuckle out Skyspy's attempt to make odds that either Logsdon or Boone could die of alcohol posioning before the terms end.
That my friend is totally out of line.

Crooked politicians are out of line.

Again if even half of the stories are true, those 2 will do themselves in. I don't have to wish bad karma on them.

Since harold has taken office our city that was once in the top 10 places to live now looks like river-crime-dale. Maybe it is just a coincidence. I don't think so. Thanks again to the idiots who voted for harold and got sucked into his blatant campaign lies.

I'm just getting warmed up.

Fill us all in these dirty little secrets.
I have been hearing some you guys making reference to all of the illegal if not immoral doings of some of the current council members.
Please take my challenge!
Give us examples.
Let us all know whats going on.
Just quit whispering and insinuating that evil is afoot.

A little help here for you:
Wieland owns the land for a long time. He may have to wait for a long time yet to build, but he must get the approval to build anytime! If he waits for years, he can't line up money to build----get it?

I suppose you want A developer to build a 8-10 million dollar school which would add 25-30% to the cost of each house? I'm sure he won't pay the teachers and the upkeep of the school.

Now, that said, we don't need any more building right now (even $400,000 homes) until the bank situation is cleared up! The owners of course will, be taxpayers and support any schools needed, if any are.

If you know a way to build a planned community without too much development there are people who would be willing to pay for that information.

Compounds of rich people without disturbance are only in Newport, R. I. and West Palm Beach, FL., and some in southern CA.
They simply buy everyone off.

Regardless of what name you post under, you statements are always convoluted and make no sense.

I don't know what Bonkers-Sage means?

As to convolution and sense, I will be glad to explain in more shallow terms if you will tell me what is unclear!

Regardless of what name you post under, you statements are always convoluted and make no sense.

This is a sure sign that I can wash at least one of my cars everyday now. I love it.

I still feel that sting of paying a place $125 to wash my trailer when in the past I was able to do the same in my driveway for next to nothing. But yet, we have enough water for development. What am I missing?
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It's a crazy world we all live in. No logic. But, my cars still need to be clean.

car wash racks. You know, the ones that you have to put dollars in the change machine to get tokens and, lo and behold, the change machine will not take the only few dollars that you have. And then when you finally get it to work the darn pressure sprayer is on for about 2 minutes. (Of course all along I'm using county water to do this.) It took me about $6 to wash one car. It's a real PIA event.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

We only have 1 year left of lodgson and boone. If even half of the stories about their drinking are true, we have about a 80/20 chance that they will die from alcohol poisoning or liver failure before we have to vote them out of office.

There is a bright side to everything.

You gave me a good chuckle--would it be bad of me to send each of them a case of whiskey?

I like how you think. Glad I could cheer someone up.