Sheriff's Candidates Training

One of the current candidates for Sheriff consistently uses the self-proclamation of being the "most qualified" of all the candidates for Fayette County Sheriff. This particular candidate's training record with the GA Peace Officers Standards and Training Council reveals that statement is untrue and poses some issues with that particular candidate.

Mr. Simmons training record, obtained from the GA POST Council via Open Records in addition to the training records of Wayne Hannah, Thomas Mindar, and Barry Babb, reveals that Mr. Simmons was employed by the GA Building Authority Police Agency from 11/1999 until 8/2001 when he resigned. (Simmons does not claim this experience and a letter on his website claims he worked for this agency from Dec. of 1998 until Dec. of 2001).

Simmons' training record shows that he attained 444 hours of POST recognized training in the year 2000. Of those hours, 440 hours were attributed to the 11 week police academy he attended to obtain his GA POST certification. The remainder of his training for 2000 was "IN THE LINE OF DUTY TRAINING VIDEO" for a total of 4 training hours. Simmons' training for 2001 totaled 16 hours and involved 2 hours of Fraud Investigations, 2 hours of Health Issues, 2 hours of Victim's Bill of Rights, 2 hours of Miscellaneous Conflict Management, 4 hours of Crime Prevention, and 4 hours of Firearms requalifications. Simmons' last training was completed in January of 2002 and he received 4 hours of training in the area of Crisis Management and Terrorism. There is no record of any training having been completed since January of 2002!

To the average citizen, having to attend the full 11 weeks of training might not mean much, but to someone familiar with law enforcement certification, transferring an out-of-state POST certification to another state involves having to complete an abbreviated training academy in the new state of certification (Lateral transfers). Therefore, why was Simmons' POST certification from Michigan NOT recognized by the State of GA and why is there no credit for any previous training or certifications on his report?

For the year 2001, why did Simmons' fail to meet the State requirement (O.C.G.A. 35-8-21) of obtaining his 20 hours of training, thus resulting in his losing his powers of arrest? This would mean that any arrest Simmons' affected while employed would be INVALID for that year.

Simmons training report also lists his highest level of education as a HS diploma. Why doesn't GA recognize his college education?

Just in comparison- Mindar shows a total of 1183 hours of training since 1996 and is a certified Field Training Officer holding both his Basic and Intermediate Certifications in law enforcement.

Babb shows 1589 hours of training since 1988 and holds certifications as a radar operator, Field Training Officer, and Arson Investigator. He holds a Basic Certification and both General and Firearms Instructor Certifications.

Hannah shows 2210 hours of training since 1978 and holds certifications as a radar operator, Laser operator, Basic certification, and Firearms Instructor.

I would say, in doing the math, that the most qualified of the candidates is NOT Dave Simmons!

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Submitted by ROSEBUD on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 8:41pm.

Tomorrow night's forum should be interesting... to see if Givemeabreak will be debating for

Submitted by McGerkin88 on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 9:57pm.

What are the qualifications of becoming a Fayette County Sheriff anyway? Looks like you are basing it simply on training and certificates. I still don't find the other 3 candidates with very impressive qualifications; Field Training, radar operator, Arson investigator etc. Not impressive.

Nice try on the Urban Legend (False)you posted.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 10:32pm.

Simmons, indeed does meet the qualifications to run for Sheriff, McGerkin88. However, I am disputing his overall claim to be the "most qualified." I don't see how you find Simmons apparent qualifications so impressive when apparently everything he claims he has achieved isn't worthy enough to earn credit for him with this State on his training report! And let me ask you then, what type of qualifications would you be impressed with? Show me where your candidate has any of them because I don't see anything but what I listed in my earlier post.

Also, what is the "urban legend" you refer to?

Submitted by McGerkin88 on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 11:02pm.

The Urban Legend is "let's try and discredit Dave Simmons campaign." You have put out there in blog land what is labeled as "unfounded facts." I just heard a talk show host who stated that he had to hire bloggers to correct these attacks with the truth. It's a shame.

Let me ask you this Drewpdawg. Have you gone to a forum and heard Mr. Simmons speak? Have you been to a Meet & Greet that I know all of the 4 candidates have had? Have you emailed Mr. Simmons with your questions? If you haven't, then that is a crime in itself. I can understand if you have worked in law enforcement and feel that your buddy Mindar might be loosing and needs you to discredit this man. Spin as you must, I am sure there are commenter's coming soon to do the same with Mindar, Hannah and Babb.

I have done my research on this candidate. I have actually contacted the FBI Academy. I am satisfied with the information and verification that I received. I have also contacted and spoke with 2 others candidates. I am satisfied who I will vote for DA. I am now researching other posts.

Submitted by GiveMeABreak4507 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 6:39pm.

Hey, I have heard him speak. At the NAACP Community Forum (Ambush) he spoke as a panelist. He alluded to things he did in Detroit 11 times that I counted after I finally noticed that he kept referring to Detroit so often.

He also spoke about the presence of Gangs in Fayette County and that he thought is was a big problem. The very next speaker, sitting to his right, was a former gang member, turned minister and gang expert from Dekalb County. Reverend Brown commented immediately and generally by saying "Fayette County, you don't have a gang problem, you have a wannabe are doing things right!" Mr. Simmons did not speak again after Reverand Brown.

Submitted by KCW56 on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 9:26am.

you are getting very sloppy in your attacks towards Simmons, enough to just about figure out who is really hiding behind “give me a break 4507.”

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 6:54am.

I had almost forgotten about that.

A former gang member said that what our law enforcement is doing is the right way to fight and deter crime.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 11:15pm.

Call it what you want McGerkin88. I guess you are one of the many who will believe anything you are told without truly researching anything. Why didn't you answer my question about the qualifications you would desire? Because you realized your candidate doesn't have them is why! If anything I posted is incorrect, find the truth yourself. Call and get yourself a copy of his transcript from GA POST Council. Speak with Ms. Keeling and she will send you a copy to see for yourself.

No, I have not gone to a forum and listened to him speak. Do I need to go to hear Barack Obama or John McCain speak in person also to know which candidate I will vote for? Have you heard either of them speak in person? So we commit crimes by not attending public forums, huh?

I already know the other 3 candidates and I am not fooled by the fourth one!

Submitted by McGerkin88 on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 11:38pm.

"I already know the other 3 candidates and I am not fooled by the fourth one!"

I think this statement says it all.

"I guess you are one of the many who will believe anything you are told without truly researching anything."

As I stated in my post, I asked, I investigated.

"Do I need to go to hear Barack Obama or John McCain speak in person also to know which candidate I will vote for?"

You have the pleasure of watching them on TV or hearing them on the radio.

"So we commit crimes by not attending public forums, huh?"

Huh? Love your mentality. But I will continue.

"Why didn't you answer my question about the qualifications you would desire? Because you realized your candidate doesn't have them is why!"

Let's see here, because he has 28 years of law enforcement experience. He went up the ranks to Deputy Chief of Police. He obtained undergraduate and graduate degrees, he is a CPP, is educated on gangs, he worked with Federal, State, County and local enforcement agencies. He was responsible for both Police and Fire departments in Highland Park. he is a graduate of the FBI National Academy and I can go on and on.

I do not believe that the other 3 candidates for Sheriff, has a college education and have educated themselves beyond their job certifications. Even Police Chief Heaton has a college education.

You asked and you received.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 7:19am.

Ummm, right now it looks like the state and a couple of other people are having a hard time verifying this alleged college degree.

The FBI course was just that a short seminar. Why is the recent work history(1999-2001) in Atlanta not listed? Why the abrupt departure from that job?

Since Cal has opened up this site for questions to the candidates I'll add these to my long list.

Submitted by KCW56 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 8:48am.

I don't see a couple of other people having a hard time verifying his college. Just you and Dawg putting out accusations.

"Why is the recent work history(1999-2001) in Atlanta not listed?" Perhaps because he had just built a home here and moved in and getting settled. Why do you care?

"Why the abrupt departure from that job?" What abrupt departure? Nothing abrupt about it. It was a planned retirement date.

Here some questions for you. Why does Hannah still drive his patrol car while on a leave of absence? If he is such an honorable man, what is his church affiliation, his website doesn't list one. Why is it that so many of his own officers speak on this site so badly about him and his wife?

Babb continues to teach the scriptures at work. I believe their is a time and place for that.

Mindar will always have Woodie following him.

I can go on. None of the 3 Sheriff trained candidates have what it takes to manage, keep accountable, take us to the 21rst century technology that is so needed in this day and age. Check it out, most of your Chiefs in other counties have college and/or masters degrees. Why wouldn't we want that here? I no longer believe the "good ole' boy" system will work.

Submitted by GiveMeABreak4507 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 6:58pm.

Let's see. I know you are not Mr. Simmons. I read a letter he sent to Sheriff Johnson personally. I hope that makes it out, spelling and syntax errors and all. That would be a hoot to read.

Lt. Colonel Hannah is not driving his patrol vehicle anywhere except pulling it in and out of the garage every few days to keep the battery charged. Why, because its not needed anywhere else while he is out and so we won't have to mess with it while he is out. Plus, the Sheriff said it would be a good idea to do that.

His church affliiation. That's up to him, but you know what? We've worked together a long time and I guess he and I have talked about our faith maybe a hundred times. Now, lest you ask, I have been a member at my church for about 9 years, and 15 years at the one before that, and not a regular at church for the 7 years I was in the military. By the way, one of my Pastor's sermons a couple months ago was titled "Back Sliding Christians." I remember one quote from the sermon that is apprapro for here. "My friends, if the rapture came right this moment, these pews would not be empty. Coming to church is not the way to heaven and Jesus says to us in the scripture--None shall come to the Father, except through me."

Now as far as people speaking badly of Lt. Colonel Hannah, there are about 10 people that are openly Barry Babb supporters (most of them probably blog here), there are about 10 openly Wayne Hannah supporters(some blog here), and maybe 5 openly Tom (I'm ready to go huntin') Mindar supporters (some, I couldn't tell you how many blog here). The rest of the 240 or so Sheriff's office employees are smart enough to keep quiet and smile and say good luck top all three internal candidates.

By the way, what does religious preference have to do with the Sheriff's race?

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 12:23pm.

Umm, I think you better get Dave to change his website to fit your story.....

He says he moved here in 1997.....that still doesn't explain the hasty departure from a job at the state capitol from 1999-2001.

Even Mindar has more hours of training then your sad little candidate.

I thought the state of GA lists credentials of officers they certify, which means if they didn't list a college degree.......

Submitted by kikenbutt on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 2:25pm.

he doesn't need to change his website.

"He says he moved here in 1997" - His wife came down to Fayetteville to build a home near her family. Simmons continued to work and was in Highland Park when he retired. When he retired, he finally moved to Georgia. Heard this at a Meet the Candidate dinner. Try to hook into one of these forums, you meet the candidates and can ask questions.

"Even Mindar has more hours of training then your sad little candidate."

First of all under the Peace Officer Standards it was stated to me that those non-active law enforcement officers do not have to keep up with their training. Only active officers must abide by this act by continuing and maintaining their training. Active law enforcement officers must accomplish 20 hours every year unless it is "waived." Also, the Peace Officer Council keeps track of their hours as simply "a courtesy." If indeed college education is not listed, that doesn’t mean there isn’t an earned degree that has not been obtained. The office went on to say that when a Peace Officer gets certified, the officer is in good standing and has met all the qualifications and training needed. Or, it will say revoked. Simmons is a certified Peace Officer and once elected he will need to maintain this certification. This office also stated that these qualifications get amended each year. So, what was a qualification in the past doesn’t mean it is one now, and vice versa.

Enjoy the beach, I'm jealous.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:15pm.

Kikenbutt, what I was referring to regarding Simmons not attaining his hours, in 2001 he only had 16 hours of training. He was an "active" member of an agency at that time with the GA Building Authority and therefore was required to obtain either 20 hours of training for the year or a waiver. No waiver was issued. I can't say what his exact dates of employment were, as we have information contradicting his dates of employment. Again, Skyspy was referring to this time frame of employment with this particular agency. She is not referencing anything while he was still in Michigan in 1996 or 1997.

Regarding Mindar's training hours, yes he indeed does have more training hours currently than Simmons does. For some reason, Simmons training he achieved in Michigan is not listed on his GA POST record. I do not know why and I asked why wouldn't the State recognize his prior certification? He had to attend the full GA academy which also makes you ask why didn't the State of GA recognize his Michigan certification and training?

The college degree may also very well be a mistake in reporting, but, that is what is listed on Simmons training record and not something I made up.

The GA POST Council is also required to maintain records on all certified officers, whether active or not. Any training completed is recorded with their office and it is the officer's responsibility to make sure their records are current and correct. It is not a "courtesy" of GA POST to handle your records as you stated.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 10:08am.

You try and provide explanations on your candidate's behalf but end up going "around" the question, KCW56. Sky, in her post, asked why did Simmons' fail to mention his experience at the GA Building Authority. You responded that "Perhaps because he had just built a home here and moved in and getting settled. Why do you care?" What does that have anything to do with why Simmons would not list a particular position he held on his resume of qualifications?

Then, Sky asks, why did Simmons leave that job so abruptly? Your answer, "What abrupt departure. Nothing abrupt about it. It was a planned retirement date." Oh, so now Simmons has retired from the GA Building Authority position that he failed to mention. His transcript says he resigned and his letter of reference from Capt. Robinson says he also resigned after some departmental restructuring. Which is it?

If all you can attack on Wayne Hannah is the fact that he is still driving his assigned patrol vehicle home, so what? Why do you question what Wayne Hannah's religious background is, then in the next section openly criticize Barry Babb for his religious views? Is this the time and place for discussing religion or do you want to leave it out of this race?

I made no accusation whatsoever about Simmons in my earlier post. I simply obtained his training transcript and questioned several things on there. If you were to obtain the same transcript, you would see the highest level of education listed is a HS diploma. You would see the same amount of training hours I saw. You would see that there is not ONE hour of training transferred from the State of Michigan. So, please explain how I made some false accusation.

Woodie works under Wayne Hannah, FYI and supports him, not Mindar.

Submitted by kikenbutt on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:47pm.

"If all you can attack on Wayne Hannah is the fact that he is still driving his assigned patrol vehicle home, so what?"

Like Sky and yourself, you want to know the character of the man. I understand Mindar and Babb turned in their patrol cars. It is the right thing to do. It shows us citizens that they are not trying to take advantage of us with their campaigning and using a County vehicle to do so. It also intimidates people, which has been stated about Hannah all throughout these comments. Why is this vehicle not been turned in? I personally have a problem with this. Shows abuse of power. A candidate not utilizing my tax dollars wisely.

Submitted by GiveMeABreak4507 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 7:09pm.

I already answered why Lt. Colonel Hannah did not turn in his patrol car. Don't know why Mindar did. Barry turned his in because of the mismanagement of the Field Operations Division Vehicle Fleet, they are constantly short on cars and they needed his.

By the way, this intimidation thing about Lt. Colonel Hannah has taken a life of its own here KikenButt. If you are again speaking about Mr. Simms and the campaign sign… Mr. Simms and Lt. Colonel Hannah had known each other for about 4 years before this encounter. He considered Mr. Simms a friendly acquaintance. Now, just for those who don't recall, he claimed intimidation, but in fact it was a cordial conversation on both sides and ended amicably.

If Mr. Simms has another characterization of the encounter, let him state the details of the conversation for the record. I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't because he knows the truth. Did you know that after the alleged intimidation, Mr. Simms tried to make an ethics complaint that was rejected? Bet you didn't know that.

Submitted by susieq on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 7:23pm.

Why would a law abiding citizen be intimidated by a patrol car? Hiding something?

Submitted by drewpdawg on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 11:59pm.

Yes, I already know the other three candidates, therefore, why would I need to spend time researching them. These guys have been living and working around here for years and are known by many citizens besides myself.

Let me compare a moment. I will only use one example for time. Using your list of qualifications, Wayne Hannah for example, has over 30 years of experience. Wayne has worked his way up the ladder from a dispatcher to Lt. Colonel. Wayne has worked with Federal, State, County, and local agencies. He has received numerous awards and recognitions for his work. He has extensive training in law enforcement and not just in one specialization. He holds several certifications in law enforcement. He does not hold a degree in anything- not that many do! He has not graduated from the FBI Academy but neither did Randall and it hasn't made him any lesser of a great Sheriff! Anyway, I could go on and on and my point is this, why is Dave Simmons the most qualified? What has he done since his last training class in 2002? What does your candidate have that Hannah, Mindar, or Babb don't that really makes him the better candidate?

Submitted by KCW56 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 9:34am.

I don't believe we need a new Sheriff based on claiming that they worked in "Traffic" and expect them to understand how to manage a very large budget, fight crime that is here and more” He has not graduated from the FBI Academy but neither did Randall and it hasn't made him any lesser of a great Sheriff!" Well, that's debatable. As sky stated, the FBI Academy was only a couple of weeks. Well, if that is so true, why didn't Randall promote that. What an honor graduating from this academy is for those that can survive it. It's called mentoring and educating your prodigies.

As far as what Simmons has done since 2002, I believe he owned a Security Consultant company.

I for one will take Simmons, yes, from Detroit, who has the experience, knowhow, certifications and education over these 3 any day.

There needs to be a change, crime is at a new level and residents are right there along with several of us. Simmons is gaining momentum, despite the few negative commenter’s spins, accusations and so forth. It "taint" working.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 10:22am.

The question for why Randall has not sent his staff to attend the FBI Academy is a question for Randall. Costs maybe, staffing, wait-list, I really don't know. The Sheriff's Office is also not an accredited department, but many other agencies in the State and nationally are now accredited. But, I guess that is Wayne, Barry, and Thomas' fault too.

Simmons training since 2002 can't be explained to us by saying that he owned his own company. If it could, please explain the training that he has received then from doing so. Can a pilot learn more from owning his own airplane and running his own business compared to a commercial pilot?

Submitted by kikenbutt on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 2:51pm.

"The question for why Randall has not sent his staff to attend the FBI Academy is a question for Randall."

That's the mind frame of this current Sheriff, and the officers coming from within. Should of happened, as Sheriff's from around the country send their officers for this type of training, especially after 911. Security is a big concern since then.

"The Sheriff's Office is also not an accredited department, but many other agencies in the State and nationally are now accredited."

This has started to be a pet peeve of mine, since I have dived into all these issues. Accreditation is a must, and Sheriff departments all around the US have it. We are a County that in Randall's day had 28,000 residents. Now in this County there are over 100,000. Why the heck didn't this current Sheriff get us accredited? This is a great hallmark of recognition that comes with alot of perks. Here are just a few.
* increase law enforcement agency capabilities to prevent and control crime;
* increase agency effectiveness and efficiency in the delivery of law enforcement services;
* increase cooperation and coordination with other law enforcement and with other agencies of the criminal justice system; and
* increase citizen and employee confidence in the goals, objectives, policies, and practices of the agency.

"One of the results of accreditation is that a 600 page Manual of Instruction is created, giving guidance to department members regarding all facets of departmental operations, training and administration. All accreditations are reviewed and updated at five year intervals to ensure continued compliance with all applicable standards."

Hopefully, this can be implemented quickly for the sake of our County.

Submitted by GiveMeABreak4507 on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 6:33pm.

Let me comment here, I think I'm in the right place. Some of you have NO knowledge of the Sheriff's Office but speak as though you do.

It is not true that Sheriff Johnson hasn't sent anyone to the FBI National Academy. Former Chief Deputy C.L. "Butch" Hall attended and graduated from the FBI Academy; sorry I don't know the session number, but you can look him up in any alumni directory. I asked for permission to attend the National Academy and he approved although I dropped my application before the final selection.

As far as I know, no other member of the department has asked for permission to go, but if they had, he would probably approved them.

Now, let me move on to another distortion or rumor being retold as the truth.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 2:57pm.

I could not agree with you more about the added benefits of becoming accredited and allowing command staff to attend the FBI Academy. I can't answer as to why FCSO has not pursued that step and from what I read about Hannah, he is a proponent of accreditation. I have not heard Simmons', Babb's, or Mindar's take on the matter.

Submitted by thenatural on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:47pm.

When this question came up before I was told that the reason was simple. The process was lengthy to start, there were annual requirements for maintaining it and there were standards that had to be adhered to in order to keep it.

Randall did not want to do any of that.

THE BOSS's picture
Submitted by THE BOSS on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 4:33pm.

It’s called being accountable.

See audit, missing this missing that, where is this where is that?

Need we say more?

Audit loose accounting by sheriff

Have a nice day

Submitted by TruthWarrior on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 5:15pm.

Hey BOSS I'm confused. I thought we were against accredidation. That will only give us more rules, kinda like under handed non-christian Wayne. We don't like rules we have to follow,remember. Maybe I'm not understanding this right. Ohhhh. Now I get it. Your just punking Sheriff Johnson. This last year he's really lost it hasn't he. Everthing was good until you decided you wanted to be Sheriff. That's when crime got out of control. I know it's just your way of saying thank you Sheriff for letting me have this wonderful job for the last 20 years.

THE BOSS's picture
Submitted by THE BOSS on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 9:14pm.

I'm confused, also.
By the way it’s 31 wonderful years.

Submitted by KCW56 on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 10:43am.

How many pages does the Sheriff's policy & procedure handbook have now???? Been some paper shredding lately?

"See audit, missing this missing that, where is this where is that? Need we say more?" NOPE!

Submitted by kikenbutt on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:48pm.

My point exactly.

Submitted by kikenbutt on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:03pm.

"and from what I read about Hannah, he is a proponent of accreditation"

I have been to several forums where all the candidates got to speak. I did not hear this from Hannah. Where did you read this? I would like to read it myself.


Submitted by CI5835 on Thu, 06/26/2008 - 12:08am.

LE agencies do not seek accrediation just for the sake of saying they are accredited. There are reason, perhaps the main being that once accredited the department operates according to widely accepted and trusted standards. Because of this, it becomes very difficult for individuals to sue the department. Therefore, the agencies risk and liability goes way down. It is a win win situation and hopefully this becomes an issue in the election quickly.

Submitted by drewpdawg on Wed, 06/25/2008 - 3:22pm.

There were some previous postings that mentioned it. I will try and locate them for you. See if it was not mentioned in one of the comments on this page here

Submitted by skyspy on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 9:34pm.

So it isn't just me,......apparently no one has been able to verify Simmons "college degree". ???

So even Mindar the most junior officer has had more current training than Simmons?? Am I reading this correctly?

Simmons had some GA work experience in law enforcement that he didn't want to talk about? Am I reading this correctly??


Submitted by drewpdawg on Tue, 06/24/2008 - 10:47pm.

Either the State could not verify that information on him or he didn't provide it to them. I don't know the reason they only show his highest education level as a HS diploma, but seems to me he would correct it if it were wrong!

Mindar has a lot of training for the amount of years of service he has and yes, he has way more than does Simmons. A rookie cop in the City of Atlanta (who just decided that all rookies would begin walking foot patrols in downtown) upon graduation from the academy would have more training hours than Dave Simmons currently has! Atlanta PD's police academy is 26 weeks long X 40 hours week= 1040 hours! That is for rookies, folks and not 28 year veterans!

Yes, Simmons' does fail to list this experience with the State Building Authority. If you remember one of my last posts, I questioned the letter of referral for Simmons' by Captain Robinson listed on Simmons' website. This referral letter speaks of Simmons' holding a position of Administrative Manager for the agency. It seems to me this type of position would be one I would list on my resume and qualifications for seeking another high end position like Sheriff. However, despite all the great things this Captain references Simmons' having done for this agency, Simmons' never mentions one word of it on his experience. Again, why? Can he not back up his claim of being the most qualified candidate?

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